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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
 Posted - Aug 31 2012 : 11:08:16 PM
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This has been one of the most welcomed (and needed) milestones I've encountered yet. I have, in the past, been one who adamantly defends my opinions/position/ideas/experience as I'm sure many of you already know.  But over the past while (several months I would say) there has been a gradual decrease in the desire to defend my position and to have others understand what I'm saying. Most of the time I acutally prefer to just be quiet now (which is in stark contrast to my usual style of communication, again as many of you already know). Now, I can share something from my experience, it can be well received, agreed with, argued against, or any other possible result and it makes absolutely no difference to me. I no longer care if my experience aligns with another's, I no longer care if people agree with me, give me props or furiously tell me I'm lost/wrong/retarded or anything else. I can simply share my experience (like we do here at the forum) and be done with it. This is a welcomed relief for me as there was a TON of suffering around how others interpret and perceive me/what I'm saying. The only drawback here (that I can see at this point) is that it's not particularly conducive to conversation... I tend to drop out of it even soon after starting it. So, my apologies if I start a conversation with you and then disappear... I just have nothing else to say.  
Love!
Carson 
P.S> This has also resulted in a lack of desire to challenge others with regards to "their Truth" (which is very often different from "my Truth." I may not see (or interpret or express) things the same as others, but I no longer have any desire to "correct" or challenge others beliefs/experiences/interpretations. This is probably a relief for those around me as much as it is for myself.  |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Sep 01 2012 : 12:41:28 AM
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maheswari
Lebanon
2520 Posts |
Posted - Sep 01 2012 : 01:56:33 AM
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Radharani
USA
843 Posts |
Posted - Sep 01 2012 : 03:39:08 AM
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Sep 01 2012 : 03:44:55 AM
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| What!?? All you guys have to say is 's!?? Where's the arguements? Why aren't you challenging me? I want to defend myself damnit! |
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maheswari
Lebanon
2520 Posts |
Posted - Sep 01 2012 : 03:55:26 AM
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Sep 01 2012 : 06:12:11 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by CarsonZi
What!?? All you guys have to say is 's!?? Where's the arguements? Why aren't you challenging me? I want to defend myself damnit!
When the " my" "self" is dropping, what else is left to defend?
PS: talk about a once in a blue moon moment! |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Sep 01 2012 : 06:55:18 AM
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| Then you can play it's fun to play. |
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woosa
United Kingdom
382 Posts |
Posted - Sep 01 2012 : 07:01:04 AM
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Carson, I find your post abhorrent, crass and very offensive.
I hereby slap your face with a glove and challenge you to a duel.
.....
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.....
Carson? |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Sep 01 2012 : 07:09:27 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by woosa
Carson, I find your post abhorrent, crass and very offensive.
I hereby slap your face with a glove and challenge you to a duel.
.....
.....
.....
Carson?
FINALLY!!! Fight, fight, fight, fight.... |
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maheswari
Lebanon
2520 Posts |
Posted - Sep 01 2012 : 2:33:47 PM
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quote:
I hereby slap your face with a glove and challenge you to a duel.
and what happened next with The Three Musketeers? |
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mr_anderson
USA
734 Posts |
Posted - Sep 01 2012 : 2:45:06 PM
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Nice Carson. quote:
TON of suffering around how others interpret and perceive me/what I'm saying
Completely resonate with this one. It's a hard line to balance also sometimes: what is explaining yourself and your point of view clearly, and what is identifying with and trying to defend your position? The words can be the same, but I can notice in my body there's an uncomfortable sensation when there's been some identification with and an attempt to defend a mental position.
I love it when people challenge me, because they become my Gurus: they kindly help me notice when I'm identified with a point of view, and my ego has got caught up in a personal opinion. Those feelings of separation arise, and they show me: take an honest look at your conditioning, you're still caught up in a egoic, dualistic perspective.
Helps to humble me, and give me a good old chance to get knocked down a peg or two, when I've been feeling all liberated and transcendent, abiding as That, and perhaps an egoic thought has crept in and started to whisper in my ear, you are abiding as That, yes you!
I guess at the end of the day, one of the best realizations we can have (and sometimes I needed this knocked into me, with my arrogant ideas that I know something), if you think you've got something to teach, then what you probably actually need is to get off your high horse and learn! There's only one, so who is there to teach anyway? Teaching flows from us all naturally, life itself is the Guru, and everyone presents us with a lesson. |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Sep 01 2012 : 5:45:33 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by mr_anderson
Nice Carson. quote:
TON of suffering around how others interpret and perceive me/what I'm saying
Completely resonate with this one. It's a hard line to balance also sometimes: what is explaining yourself and your point of view clearly, and what is identifying with and trying to defend your position? The words can be the same, but I can notice in my body there's an uncomfortable sensation when there's been some identification with and an attempt to defend a mental position.
I love it when people challenge me, because they become my Gurus: they kindly help me notice when I'm identified with a point of view, and my ego has got caught up in a personal opinion. Those feelings of separation arise, and they show me: take an honest look at your conditioning, you're still caught up in a egoic, dualistic perspective.
Helps to humble me, and give me a good old chance to get knocked down a peg or two, when I've been feeling all liberated and transcendent, abiding as That, and perhaps an egoic thought has crept in and started to whisper in my ear, you are abiding as That, yes you!
I guess at the end of the day, one of the best realizations we can have (and sometimes I needed this knocked into me, with my arrogant ideas that I know something), if you think you've got something to teach, then what you probably actually need is to get off your high horse and learn! There's only one, so who is there to teach anyway? Teaching flows from us all naturally, life itself is the Guru, and everyone presents us with a lesson.
Brilliant when you realise everything is just helping you onwards towards the time when you wake up. Good post. |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Sep 01 2012 : 8:16:30 PM
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Rock-solid, Carson. This resonates deeply with me as well.
I just read "The Celestine Prophecy" for fun, and the author describes four personality types, one of which is called an "interrogator"...which is someone who constantly probes and manipulates language and energy to win an argument, or maintain a position of dominance, being right, etc.
Definitely been prone to that posture since childhood, but that obnoxious glare has somewhat waned with the rise of inner silence and the simultaneous decrease in the need to cling to any intellectual sense of authority or false power.
Real power needs no defense, it seems. |
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cosmic
USA
821 Posts |
Posted - Sep 01 2012 : 9:21:55 PM
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Hey bro
Wait. You have no desire to defend your position.... yet you're surprised that nobody confronts you?
Maybe I miss something. But why would you invite argument if you have no desire to defend?
I point this out because I love you man.
See you next month
Namaste
cosmic |
Edited by - cosmic on Sep 02 2012 11:33:33 AM |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Sep 01 2012 : 9:47:06 PM
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Hey Comso
Was joking about wanting an argument.
See you soon! |
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cosmic
USA
821 Posts |
Posted - Sep 01 2012 : 10:17:36 PM
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You're sleeping on the couch
Love! |
Edited by - cosmic on Sep 02 2012 11:33:02 AM |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Sep 01 2012 : 10:25:25 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by cosmic
You're sleeping on the couch
This is the story of my life. Sigh. |
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cosmic
USA
821 Posts |
Posted - Sep 01 2012 : 10:27:21 PM
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LOL we wouldn't do that you bro  |
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cosmic
USA
821 Posts |
Posted - Sep 01 2012 : 10:30:20 PM
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| We love you and the fam. |
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kami
USA
921 Posts |
Posted - Sep 01 2012 : 10:54:57 PM
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Lovely post Carson!!
As I read it and everyone's responses, I came to the conclusion that this is not yet my truth in its entirety. And it helps me see that I do have plenty of moments when I'd like to defend "my" position. And this is really not unique to any of us - it is the *lot* of being human, and having strong minds and intellects. Do I see the absurdity in the ways that the ego jumps up to defend itself? A resounding yes But that doesn't mean it isn't possible to get caught up in it at times.. The only thing I would say is that this "tendency" is mostly gone from ordinary life and most times I am genuinely OK with anything.. But there is still a lot of holding - work in progress
Thank you for posting this so I could see what the truth is for me.
Love you,
kami
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Sep 02 2012 : 12:28:02 AM
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Hi Mr. Anderson
quote:
Originally posted by mr_anderson
It's a hard line to balance also sometimes: what is explaining yourself and your point of view clearly, and what is identifying with and trying to defend your position?
I'm really starting to wonder if there is much point to sharing about myself, my point of view, or my experience at all. Just this morning after getting home from work (I started this topic while at work last night) I re-read this thread and felt a little silly for even starting it. I realized that there was really no point in even putting this out there.... it's really just masturbation. What I have said *is* true, there has been a fairly major shift towards losing the desire to defend my perspective/challenge other's perspectives, but I'm not sure anymore why I would bother telling anyone about this. Who cares!? Not even me to be honest. I'm happy to live the result but the need to share about this has suddenly disappeared, even in just the last 24 hours or whatever.
quote:
Originally posted by mr_anderson
The words can be the same, but I can notice in my body there's an uncomfortable sensation when there's been some identification with and an attempt to defend a mental position.
Yes, for sure. When someone challenges something I've "put out there" there can definitely be an instinctual physical and mental clenching. This is almost always noticed right away now, and consequently relaxed into, but I agree that there is a subtle difference in the reaction when there is identification with "my position" as opposed to when there is not.
quote:
Originally posted by mr_anderson
I love it when people challenge me, because they become my Gurus: they kindly help me notice when I'm identified with a point of view, and my ego has got caught up in a personal opinion.
Absolutely. This is exactly why my wife is such a great guru for me. She is not afraid to call me out, to challenge me, and she is almost always right (although I definitely have an aversion to admitting that to her).
Love!
Carson |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Sep 02 2012 : 12:45:03 AM
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Hi Bodhi Tree
quote:
Originally posted by Bodhi Tree
I just read "The Celestine Prophecy" for fun, and the author describes four personality types, one of which is called an "interrogator"...which is someone who constantly probes and manipulates language and energy to win an argument, or maintain a position of dominance, being right, etc.
Um, yeah. That's been me for pretty much my whole life. My mom always says I should have been a politician. 
quote:
Originally posted by Bodhi Tree
Real power needs no defense, it seems.
Well, I don't know anything about power, but I have seemingly lost the need to defend anything. Lost a lot of the desire to talk about sh*t in general too though. Maybe I'm just becoming more and more lazy.
Love!
Carson |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Sep 02 2012 : 12:53:45 AM
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Hi Kami
quote:
Originally posted by kami
As I read it and everyone's responses, I came to the conclusion that this is not yet my truth in its entirety. And it helps me see that I do have plenty of moments when I'd like to defend "my" position.
Reading this it occurred to me that I should probably have been more clear right from the start. Or maybe it would be more accurate to say that reading this helped me to become more clear for myself as to exactly what has changed.
I still have many moments where I feel the draw to defend myself or to challenge others, but there has been a decrease in the desire to ACT of these thoughts and feelings. If I really inquire into it I can see that even in the past I knew that I didn't *have* to defend myself and could just let it go, but I didn't have the motivation to let it go and not defend myself. I really wanted others to understand my position so that they would then "see the truth for themselves" (big red flag) which would have me feeling like "my truth" has been validated and I no longer have to question it anymore. And round and round we go. Now, it seems much easier to just let go of those nagging thoughts and feelings of needing to defend myself to others and just let others think/feel/say what they want. It really doesn't affect me unless I let it. Thanks for helping me clear that up.
Love!
Carson |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Sep 03 2012 : 5:22:29 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by CarsonZi
Well, I don't know anything about power, but I have seemingly lost the need to defend anything.
You know about spiritual power, Carson. It's stillness in action, which is real power...not the worldly power of force (military, politicians, wealth, blah blah blah). The spiritual power flows through you, undoubtedly.
Dr. David Hawkins has an excellent metaphysical model and book called "Power vs. Force", in which he nicely diagrams how unconditional love and the state of non-duality are far more powerful than the forces of anger, pride, violence, and other lower chaotic vibrations.
Peaceful warriors, mate!  Know this! |
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Radharani
USA
843 Posts |
Posted - Sep 03 2012 : 8:09:12 PM
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| I continue to want to explain my position even though it is clearly futile. I long ago gave up the hope of convincing anybody of anything, though. anyway, good for you, bro! |
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Losing the desire to defend
