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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
 Posted - Sep 03 2012 : 8:59:52 PM
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Yes, I lost that desire to defend also, although sometimes I dabble a little.
What I have been noticing is my inner guru gives me instructions, and they seem to be this huge answer to solve big world problems. Then later I see that although the puzzle still fits in that way, the instructions were for me only. So I learned to just shut up and mind my own business.
Same thing when i know some "truth" that nobody else knows. I just act on it and keep quiet. My actions seem to have more power that way also.
Although my "truth" could sometimes help others, they don't necessarily need to understand it in the way I do for maximum help, so it's best to let them learn on their own. They will ask if they want, but i make it short, and usually find that they see it differently than I do. |
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kami
USA
921 Posts |
Posted - Sep 03 2012 : 10:40:10 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Etherfish
Although my "truth" could sometimes help others, they don't necessarily need to understand it in the way I do for maximum help, so it's best to let them learn on their own. They will ask if they want, but i make it short, and usually find that they see it differently than I do.
Gosh, one of the wisest things I've read all day!! Thanks so much 
This is one area I think where we can be frequently tripped up - the need to help/save others. How can we be certain that it isn't another sneaky tactic of the ego to feel better about itself and it's truth? The inner guru has a voice that can be drowned easily by that of the ego, noticed even amongst "advanced" yogis/practitioners.. And to even know if my truth (which is absurd of course, because there is only "the" truth  ) will help someone can be difficult..
More to see and allow.. And so it goes.
Love,
kami |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Sep 03 2012 : 10:52:07 PM
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Hi Etherfish,
I've come to the same conclusion as you (I think). I now take the approach of (trying) to only offer "my help" when asked for it. I can help in my own ways (usually non-verbally) but I now (try to always) wait for an invitation before I give advice/help, and even then, the only advice that feels right to give these days is to follow one's heart. That seems to be the only advice I can give that seems to always hit the mark.
Love!
Carson  |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Sep 03 2012 : 11:16:18 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by kami
quote:
Originally posted by Etherfish
Although my "truth" could sometimes help others, they don't necessarily need to understand it in the way I do for maximum help, so it's best to let them learn on their own. They will ask if they want, but i make it short, and usually find that they see it differently than I do.
Gosh, one of the wisest things I've read all day!! Thanks so much
This is one area I think where we can be frequently tripped up - the need to help/save others. How can we be certain that it isn't another sneaky tactic of the ego to feel better about itself and it's truth? The inner guru has a voice that can be drowned easily by that of the ego, noticed even amongst "advanced" yogis/practitioners.. And to even know if my truth (which is absurd of course, because there is only "the" truth ) will help someone can be difficult..
More to see and allow.. And so it goes.
Love,
kami
Same thing again is there resistance. You probably don't debate too much over making a cup of tea, even though it is never strictly necessary. Recognise it like that. As if there is too much colour on a canvas, too much brass in a piece of music. Then let it go because its just one tiny part of the painting or music and you magnified it's importance. When you work like that you can see it fits perfectly and laugh at yourself for being so arrogant
Same with other people. If you are pursuing, stand back check. See that you are only making tea instead of drinking water. If it is more than that then it needs work. You will see it as it is in that moment. You either see yourself in others, or you have not reached that stage where everything is one. If you are one, then move through your own image, whatever colour is added is your own style. Why would it not be that way. Laugh and move on. You can't avoid life, it will leak through any barriers, you cannot avoid people in that life or the interaction with them. It doesn't matter then what interaction takes place because it's on one plane.
You know when you have arrived at this 'perception' of unity it's unmistakeable. If you are trying to convert someone as an individual person completely separate to you then you have not come that far yet. Haha but it doesn't matter, it's just all progress on a journey, don't obsess, it will come with time.
I think of it like those odd 3D pictures of a few years ago. They asked you to defocussing your eyes and relax to see the 3D. As I looked at them, all the time my mind was relentlessly checking if it was properly relaxed and were my eyes sufficiently defocused. For long periods I would stare at them, willing myself to see the picture go to 3D. One day it just did, I don't know how, I don't know if I stopped trying or what changed, but once it had I could always see it that way. |
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kami
USA
921 Posts |
Posted - Sep 04 2012 : 10:01:54 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by karl
I think of it like those odd 3D pictures of a few years ago. They asked you to defocussing your eyes and relax to see the 3D. As I looked at them, all the time my mind was relentlessly checking if it was properly relaxed and were my eyes sufficiently defocused. For long periods I would stare at them, willing myself to see the picture go to 3D. One day it just did, I don't know how, I don't know if I stopped trying or what changed, but once it had I could always see it that way.
Yes. Thank you. It is all very subtle, often with no clear timing of when something happened.. Very nicely said about resistance.. Much to see and allow and relax into!!
Love,
kami |
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Randbshiva
USA
1 Posts |
Posted - Sep 04 2012 : 1:12:47 PM
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Hi Carson,
Well, as a complete newcomer to this work (just signed up yesterday, on the first lesson) I happened on your post this morning, and it gave me great inspiration that such a state of mind is possible - maybe - for me down the line. I get what you say about helping, but I for one am glad you did. Many thanks!
Don |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Sep 06 2012 : 02:02:46 AM
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Hi, Carson,
Two things to mention.
First, this: http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....OPIC_ID=1137
Second, you said you weren't sure if this was just laziness. Actually that may be the case. That, plus a certain introversion that comes from this work which reduces one's focus toward lots of fraught outward-looking behaviors, including the defending/persuading thing. Add some bliss into the equation, and I've found it's tantalizingly easy to overestimate one's actual equanimity.
The real test is when you have something at stake. E.g. how do you handle the need to defend yourself to, say, your boss at work, when your job's on the line? Or with your spouse if she's genuinely shocked by something she thought you did? Ratcheting it up, what if someone dear to you was suffering or even dying, and you knew a way out, but your softly offered suggestion failed to persuade?
How do you react, in other words, when simply "letting it go" is not an easy option?
I've found that equanimity can only be measured under real duress. Yogis who feel they've transcended duress can be awfully surprised when stakes do rise. I highly recommend the film "Fierce Grace", which is a frank confession by Ram Dass about how all his spirituality and equanimity (and he is actually a very serious yogi, not the hippy cliche some people mock) went absolutely out the window when (and after) he had a massive stroke. Like, completely gone (he's since recovered it, and then some, inspired by this challenge).
That said, lots of people stressfully defend even when stakes are low, and it is, of course, a relief to be unburdened of that. So I'm not saying that's nothing.... |
Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Sep 06 2012 11:03:58 AM |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Sep 06 2012 : 12:28:04 PM
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Hi Jim and thanks for pointing this out.
I still experience the entire gamut of human emotions and react to challenging situations in way's that are not "equanimous." But what I don't seem to be experiencing anymore is any desire to run away from taking responsibility for what I do, and don't, do/feel. So, when my boss at work asks me to defend an action I have taken, I can (and do) simply say, "This is what I have done, this is why I have done it" and accept the consequences. I have enough trust in Life at this point that I can just be honest about my actions (and my shortcomings) and let go with regards to outcomes.
So, I'm not trying to say that I have found "perfect equanimity," I have not. I can still lose the sense of peace at any given time. But I no longer feel any need to defend that loss of peace (to myself or others). I feel how I feel and I don't have to justify that to anyone anymore. What has resulted from this dropping of the need to defend myself is an increased ability to be completely honest (both with myself and others). This doesn't make for more equanimity, in fact it could actually be said that it decreases it (as I have to look at stuff I would have in the past just "blissed over"), but I'm not in this for the peace, I'm in it to grow.
Thanks again.
Love!
Carson |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Sep 06 2012 : 1:23:18 PM
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"I'm not in this for the peace, I'm in it to grow."
Yes, that's the problem. |
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jeff
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - Sep 06 2012 : 1:52:53 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Jim and His Karma
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I've found that equanimity can only be measured under real duress. Yogis who feel they've transcended duress can be awfully surprised when stakes do rise. I highly recommend the film "Fierce Grace", which is a frank confession by Ram Dass about how all his spirituality and equanimity (and he is actually a very serious yogi, not the hippy cliche some people mock) went absolutely out the window when (and after) he had a massive stroke. Like, completely gone (he's since recovered it, and then some, inspired by this challenge).
Very good point. Much easier to "be enlightened" on a mountaintop.
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Sep 06 2012 : 3:45:07 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Jim and His Karma
"I'm not in this for the peace, I'm in it to grow."
Yes, that's the problem.
Typical. I've got problems where I didn't even realize it.  |
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kevincann
USA
335 Posts |
Posted - Sep 06 2012 : 3:47:11 PM
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Carson,
WTG.
You are naked in the world and letting it beat 'you' up. I love it when someone drops the BS stank-ass sophistication, and LIVES.
WTG
Love,
Kevin |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Sep 06 2012 : 10:00:30 PM
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Jim wrote:
"The real test is when you have something at stake. E.g. how do you handle the need to defend yourself to, say, your boss at work, when your job's on the line? Or with your spouse if she's genuinely shocked by something she thought you did? Ratcheting it up, what if someone dear to you was suffering or even dying, and you knew a way out, but your softly offered suggestion failed to persuade?"
I have run into those exact situations, although I don't have a spouse. I decided to deal with them in very earthly ways. i went through all I have at stake, and figured out different plans to deal with the loss of them.
For instance, what if I lost my job and couldn't find another one? I would lose my home, etc. How could I live without a home? How could i eat? How could i keep clean and warm?
I just went through all these questions ad nauseum, and figured out alternate plans. The alternates are not comfortable, easy, or desirable, but they are all do-able. So for me that took away the fear of loss of things I have at stake. I had to vividly imagine and plan life without them. Now when I talk to my boss I just lay it out completely honestly with no fear of loss, and he is just as relaxed no matter what I say.
Then, about people not getting it when you are trying to convey important information. I played around with expressing different emotions as i convey information. I was just having fun and kind of joking, but I found people are easily swayed when you combine emotions with information.
At first I was dumbfounded because people would believe something I said when I was just trying to be funny by mixing emotions in. My impulse was to apologize and take it back. Then I realized there are times when this could be very useful and important.
Try playing with that- you have to truly feel the emotion when you express it. You will be surprised how people react. |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Sep 07 2012 : 07:57:39 AM
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Why be equaminus ? Why try and get to equilibrium ? Accept that you cannot, then there are no surprises.
There is a duality here which must be examined . There is a separation by believing that on one hand we are being spiritually balanced and on the other that we are balanced in Maya.
Both are one. You can only continually refine the balance by feeling the imbalance. Where there is perfect balance there is no longer anything, Maya ends abruptly. It is like the artist that has no need of art, it simply ceases.
Learning this balance is not about equanimity it is instead about complete acceptance of our natural self. It is acceptance that our emotions and actions are not failings, that we need not fight to nullify them or remain aloof from them. Instead it is about facing them with infinite compassion.
Those that think they have transcended mortal feelings are in for a big shock. these feelings come out of and are not separate from the divine. If you like, god is with us in every moment, not just in our understanding but in the very emotion and actions we feel and do. Nothing is separate. It is unity. |
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sivasambho
USA
136 Posts |
Posted - Sep 10 2012 : 4:24:58 PM
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| This totally resonates with me. All of a sudden, I wasnt sure why everyone was being very kind to me. Then I realise, people were mirroring me. Sometimes, in a teleconference amidst a heated messy conflict where the voices do go very high and often several people talking over others, even when the other hasnt felt you or your energy in person, i am magically able to resolve the issue to a very nice amicable situation for all of the parties. Guess sometimes, I keep saying within myself yes go on but I love you... :) No one to hate, but still afraid at times to open the arms for love... |
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Losing the desire to defend
