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JackHenry
United Kingdom
19 Posts |
 Posted - Jul 19 2012 : 8:10:19 PM
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Dear Friends,
I feel it's time I introduced myself; my name is Jack and I've been practicing AYP continuously for at least 3 and a half years. In that time I did make a very small number of posts under the name Rumighoul, but I wanted to make a fresh start to do this post.
This is difficult for me to express, please bear with me. Things are going well, I think. I have experienced over the last year many moments of what I'm pretty certain was inner silence, and an accompanying sense of joy and freedom, in short bursts. But you'll note I say only in the last year, that I can be certain of - that's more than 2 years of continuous practice before I could really say that.
I had a very very very frustrating first couple of years trying to settle with the DM. I have persevered to the point now where I feel like I'm on the cusp of something more....but I've felt that many times before, and the pattern so far has instead been....some perceptible progress, but achingly slow, then not much perceptible progress, then a little, then not much.
Can you understand my frustration and bafflement when I read, all over this forum repeatedly, that people have been doing AYP for one year, or 6 months, or 3 weeks...and already they're doing a whole gamut of the practices....whereas I after the better part of FOUR YEARS (I think), am still only doing basic SB and DM? I don't mean to sound bitter or grasping, it's just that it contributes to the feeling that there's something wrong with me?
Ok some specifics: I currently do ten minutes spinal breathing, then 20 DM, with a little bit of experimental Mulabhanda in the SB, and maybe Sambhavi if it feels right. The SB is in fact going quite well I think, I feel I'm getting to grips with it, but again this took a looooong time. I'm relaxing into it and taking it very gently, and I have felt some ecstatic feelings intermittently (during and after), but mostly just a nice relaxing sense while doing it.
The DM is also occasionally getting really deep and interesting....but this is after almost FOUR YEARS (did I mention that already?). The problem I'm having is this: in Yogani's writings he talks about the experience of the mantra being hard to pick up, and that to handle this one should relax and just gently observe the thought stream, and after a few minutes it should dissipate.
A turning point for me some 6-7 months ago was to really take that seriously and stop struggling so much with the gigantic sense of block and tension that halted my ability to repeat the mantra. It was an inexplicable sense that I just couldn't pick up the mantra, not because of a "thought stream" in the way, but because of a sort of invisible force stopping me. But when I set the intention to treat that sense of invisible block like a thought...wee! the mantra suddenly started coming free and easy, and I had some lovely blissful meditations. But only some; the sense of block kept returning in newer forms like the BORG's war defenses. And I had to really learn to relax and be patient at a deeper level.
...And so it has been continuing like that until today. My huge doubts of the first 2.5 years are gone, because I have made progress, but I still find it strange that I have such trouble doing something that's meant to be easy. Specifically: is it normal that I have to do Yogani's "relax and observe the powerful thought stream" technique in EVERY DM SESSION, literally every one, continuously, because if I don't I start struggling with this invisible sense of block? I have to sit with no mantra repetition, for minutes and minutes on end, very occasionally for a whole session, until the sense of block suddenly lifts and I can repeat the mantra with no straining. But I have to do it EVERY TIME. Does anyone else have this experience?
Apologies for the long post. I'm aware i've probably not explained my situation very clearly, but I'd be happy to fill in more details. You'll maybe not be shocked to hear that I have suffered from a strange vitality-sapping tension / anxiety problem for many years, and that the sense of block I describe in DM is part of that. AYP has helped me with it, but I want to see if I can get beyond it now, or if I can't to at least hear from others that it's not completely abnormal.
Thanks in advance for any feedback you're willing to give,
blessing, J
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Edited by - JackHenry on Jul 19 2012 8:34:38 PM |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Jul 20 2012 : 03:14:13 AM
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Hi and welcome JackHenry.
I think you are actually trying too hard, there is a real need to self pace and simply keep hold of the intention which might mean stopping for a few days and letting things happen more naturally.
When Yogani says 'less is more' it really is that way, you make progress far faster if you just listen to what your mind and body are telling you, sometimes practices can become an aim in themselves with an obsessional need to make sure every session is completed. Instead self pace and ground.
What is sometimes not clear in all of this is that a lot of people have 'experiences' like bliss and silence. It's really all scenery, but it's part of the journey for many, it's not always necessary to be aware of it. You should also bear in mind that you are actually already there, you just cannot recognise that simple truth all we are doing is removing the mind fog that obscures the natural self.
Best wishes on your journey.
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AumNaturel
Canada
687 Posts |
Posted - Jul 20 2012 : 10:23:04 AM
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Hi JackHenry,
a good number of people start with or add AYP after having done years of some other practice, so the basics and clunky stages have settled in some. I too have kept my routine the same for a few months now to have more time dedicated to getting a better handle on the basics. The lessons also mention that adding too much too early can slow things down, with energy practices as the given example. The simple things can be the hardest things to learn and gain experience with, and they are also very worthwhile to pursue and give them the opportunity to flourish. Breathing is one such example, which plays a role as the full yogic breathing in SBP or even basic SBP. I've been paying attention to how the body breathes under different situations (exercise, internal arts, sleep, meditation, stress, fatigue, socializing, tantra, etc.), reading about it and experimenting, and what happens is more variables and interconnections emerge but very slowly. Others are also more ripe to begin with, or even downright talented in ways that can't be explained by practice and experience. What matters is where we are right now, and the next step on our very path even if it may look the same in practice. It is the so-called interstate, and you're on it with a great deal of momentum behind you. |
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Holy
796 Posts |
Posted - Jul 20 2012 : 12:16:18 PM
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Hi JackHenry,
to me it sounds all good. It will just get better the comings years. 2-3 years is really not much, think of Yoganis decades of practice. And now you are sure this works as you see the results.
In my experience it is a little bit like driving a car. The initial starting needs a lot of energy but after some meters you can accelerate much faster than before. The same happened here: at first it took 6-12 months just to have some little effects, then after some years the system was always at its limit and now after 5+ years it feels like the system has gained new strength and capacity for the next octave of practice and functioning.
If you feel stable in your practice, keep an eye on yoni mudra kumbhaka for the next addition. It should also help to "kill" some of the blocks you mention.
Wish you the best :). |
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JackHenry
United Kingdom
19 Posts |
Posted - Jul 20 2012 : 6:50:28 PM
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Thankyou Holy, Aumnaturel, Karl, for your responses, they are appreciated. So it doesn't sound odd or excessive
to any of you that I consistently have to perform a kind of conscious alignment in each session where I have to witness my thoughts over and over again for it to be even possible to say the mantra? In every session, for months and months on end? Is it just a massive obstruction needing to be chipped away at? |
Edited by - JackHenry on Jul 20 2012 9:50:49 PM |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jul 20 2012 : 10:15:39 PM
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" Is it just a massive obstruction needing to be chipped away at?"
Maybe, but like Karl says probably trying too hard, and also having too many expectations. Like you I do only SB and DM and sometimes only DM after years. It is enough. Everyone's different. I don't report all kinds of fantastic experiences like people write about here.
What is really weird with me, is that i have incredible spiritual experiences that don't seem to match other people's stories, and at the time I think they are life changing, and I will always remember. But then I forget them. Very rarely am I reminded of them. They seem to integrate into me as if I am split in two, and my everyday self lives in a different world than my spiritual self. Both of my worlds have a lot in common, and both of my selves have some in common, but I can't make sense of it at all; I am just used to it.
It is possible that you may have a unique way of experiencing it too, and just forget.
Also, it is necessary to have strong bhakti to advance faster on the path. You need devotion to a high ideal, and a sense that it is more powerful than you. |
Edited by - Etherfish on Jul 20 2012 10:22:49 PM |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Jul 21 2012 : 11:47:54 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by JackHenry
Thankyou Holy, Aumnaturel, Karl, for your responses, they are appreciated. So it doesn't sound odd or excessive
to any of you that I consistently have to perform a kind of conscious alignment in each session where I have to witness my thoughts over and over again for it to be even possible to say the mantra? In every session, for months and months on end? Is it just a massive obstruction needing to be chipped away at?
Anytime that you think you need to perform a conscious alignment, then go gently back to the Mantra. This is the key to DM. You are off in a little dead end by trying to achieve the Mantra, instead, simply notice you are off the Mantra and gently go back to it. There is no requirement to be a perfectionist. |
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JackHenry
United Kingdom
19 Posts |
Posted - Jul 21 2012 : 12:13:09 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Etherfish
" Is it just a massive obstruction needing to be chipped away at?"
Maybe, but like Karl says probably trying too hard, and also having too many expectations. Like you I do only SB and DM and sometimes only DM after years. It is enough. Everyone's different. I don't report all kinds of fantastic experiences like people write about here.
What is really weird with me, is that i have incredible spiritual experiences that don't seem to match other people's stories, and at the time I think they are life changing, and I will always remember. But then I forget them. Very rarely am I reminded of them. They seem to integrate into me as if I am split in two, and my everyday self lives in a different world than my spiritual self. Both of my worlds have a lot in common, and both of my selves have some in common, but I can't make sense of it at all; I am just used to it.
It is possible that you may have a unique way of experiencing it too, and just forget.
Also, it is necessary to have strong bhakti to advance faster on the path. You need devotion to a high ideal, and a sense that it is more powerful than you.
Hi Etherfish,
I think you and Karl are right about the trying too hard and the expectations. At some point in the last year I pushed myself to deal practically, as best I could, with the painful awareness that I was on some level expecting AYP to totally heal the unhappiness I felt, if, you know, I just got it right and persevered enough. I expected it to help me escape the confusion and anxiety/tension I had been experiencing for so long*, and I think this expectation pushed me to try far too hard.
The other problem was that the sensations and feelings that were blocking easy repetition of the mantra were, to my mind, something abnormal, and I couldn't get my head around treating them like any other thought, as instructed. I was in a trap, my own worst enemy. I'm not saying "now I'm free", but I've found a narrow escape tunnel and I can just about see some light ahead....
It's encouraging to hear that you only do DM and SB also. When you talk about the sense of having two selves - do you mean that you don't feel you have some conscious big sense of spirit in everyday life, as it were, except when you're having the experience? I have noticed myself that I'm increasingly managing to let go of the highs I experience without trying to hang on (not always, but if I find myself struggling to hold on I eventually remember to let go), and this kind of hastens me on, rededicates me, a feeling of starting all over each time, but in a good way.
*By this I mean the vitality-sapping condition I mentioned in the first post. I went to therapy briefly but couldn't get help. Very bizarre and hellish, at its worst I had a permament sense of tension and constriction in my tummy area, and a sense of localised fatigue in my scalp area. To this day I don't know if it was just some really bad anxiety coming out psychosomatically, or something more. AYP has definitely helped unwind it, and I feel like I'm slowly getting closer to confronting and releasing some of the buried stuff behind it - because it's still there, just not a fraction as bad as it used to be. |
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JackHenry
United Kingdom
19 Posts |
Posted - Jul 21 2012 : 12:21:19 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by karl
quote:
Originally posted by JackHenry
Thankyou Holy, Aumnaturel, Karl, for your responses, they are appreciated. So it doesn't sound odd or excessive
to any of you that I consistently have to perform a kind of conscious alignment in each session where I have to witness my thoughts over and over again for it to be even possible to say the mantra? In every session, for months and months on end? Is it just a massive obstruction needing to be chipped away at?
Anytime that you think you need to perform a conscious alignment, then go gently back to the Mantra. This is the key to DM. You are off in a little dead end by trying to achieve the Mantra, instead, simply notice you are off the Mantra and gently go back to it. There is no requirement to be a perfectionist.
Hi Karl,
I'll bear your advice in mind for my next sessions, maybe I just haven't quite understood how to do that yet. I know that's the consistent advice, but in my experience so far I can't just go gently back to the mantra. This is the crux of the frustration I was feeling, that picking up the mantra is meant to be this gentle thing, but for me there is this palpable sense of block, like, no joke BLOCK, making it quite impossible to "gently" say the mantra - but I eventually noticed it would dissolve if I followed the instruction of gentle witnessing of the sense of obstruction. It's like I can't get out of that dead end by myself, you know? I need to put my attention on the thing keeping me there (that´s what I mean by "consciously align"). And as stated in my first post, session after session can be like that. But maybe it's some pattern I've fallen into and it can be bypassed if I believe it can. |
Edited by - JackHenry on Jul 21 2012 1:28:11 PM |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jul 21 2012 : 1:43:58 PM
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JackHenry wrote:
"I was on some level expecting AYP to totally heal the unhappiness I felt, if, you know, I just got it right and persevered enough. I expected it to help me escape the confusion and anxiety/tension I had been experiencing for so long*, and I think this expectation pushed me to try far too hard. "
Yes, this is trying too hard, but mostly having too many expectations! Expecting it to end those things holds you back. It will end those things, but they should not be a part of your meditation. You have to let everything go and start over again, not knowing what this new world is about at all.
By letting go of all that baggage you can connect with a different part of yourself that doesn't recognize that baggage.
Having expectations is trying to change the part of your mind that connects with the baggage.
That will be done later, not now.
"do you mean that you don't feel you have some conscious big sense of spirit in everyday life, as it were, except when you're having the experience?"
No, I usually have a big sense of spirit, if you mean connection with God. But it is like I am made of layers like an onion, and the inner layers can go places the outer layers don't comprehend.
Do you practice devotion? |
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JackHenry
United Kingdom
19 Posts |
Posted - Jul 21 2012 : 3:12:53 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Etherfish
You have to let everything go and start over again, not knowing what this new world is about at all.
By letting go of all that baggage you can connect with a different part of yourself that doesn't recognize that baggage.
This is clear and helpful, thanks. It confirms the feeling I mentioned of re-entering practice as if for the first time, having let go of my frustrations, an attitude I´ve only recently begun to cultivate, and I can see it´s taking me good places.
quote:
Originally posted by Etherfish
Do you practice devotion?
In a word, no. But I have for a long time felt an urge that I would really like to, but am not sure where or how to place my devotion in an authentic way, what "ishta" to follow. I was raised lapsed-catholic, if you follow, and moved very far away from that while I think retaining some definite unconscious attachments. I have spent time investigating sufism (briefly went to a meditation group in fact, which was great, but I wasn´t ready to commit to something so strongly tied to another revealed religion), and have experimented with prayers such as Neil Douglas-Klotz´renderings of the Aramaic words of Jesus, and with trying to just feel for / pray to my own Ishta inside...not been quite sure how to continue with the devotion thing though I do feel the need of it and hope the way becomes clearer with time. Mind gets in the way still, you know?.
How about you?
PS I´m in the middle of a Job application here so if I can´t respond again until tomorrow it´s just because of that...but I really appreciate these responses from you all, thanks. |
Edited by - JackHenry on Jul 21 2012 6:07:56 PM |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jul 21 2012 : 10:32:27 PM
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Yes, I am devoted to God. It makes a huge difference to be devoted. But God is not particular about names or words. You could be devoted to nature, or "whatever is best for all of mankind". It doesn't matter. Just find something, and you can change what you call it later. It's not like a religion because there is no loyalty needed.
You just need something that inspires you. |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Jul 22 2012 : 06:29:59 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by JackHenry
quote:
Originally posted by karl
quote:
Originally posted by JackHenry
Thankyou Holy, Aumnaturel, Karl, for your responses, they are appreciated. So it doesn't sound odd or excessive
to any of you that I consistently have to perform a kind of conscious alignment in each session where I have to witness my thoughts over and over again for it to be even possible to say the mantra? In every session, for months and months on end? Is it just a massive obstruction needing to be chipped away at?
Anytime that you think you need to perform a conscious alignment, then go gently back to the Mantra. This is the key to DM. You are off in a little dead end by trying to achieve the Mantra, instead, simply notice you are off the Mantra and gently go back to it. There is no requirement to be a perfectionist.
Hi Karl,
I'll bear your advice in mind for my next sessions, maybe I just haven't quite understood how to do that yet. I know that's the consistent advice, but in my experience so far I can't just go gently back to the mantra. This is the crux of the frustration I was feeling, that picking up the mantra is meant to be this gentle thing, but for me there is this palpable sense of block, like, no joke BLOCK, making it quite impossible to "gently" say the mantra - but I eventually noticed it would dissolve if I followed the instruction of gentle witnessing of the sense of obstruction. It's like I can't get out of that dead end by myself, you know? I need to put my attention on the thing keeping me there (that´s what I mean by "consciously align"). And as stated in my first post, session after session can be like that. But maybe it's some pattern I've fallen into and it can be bypassed if I believe it can.
 Gently. Anytime you feel you are off the mantra go back to the mantra. It doesn't matter if you can't repeat the mantra, instead, just invoke the notion that you will go gently back to the mantra. No need to force it, if it isn't happening.......then go gently back to the mantra.
It's this constant toward intention and loss of the mantra that does the work. The mantra goes on anyway regardless of your consciousness of it. It's like concentrating too hard on the rain and windscreen wipers in a car instead of looking through the glass.
It doesn't matter if you think it is or isn't a thought or any of that stuff, just gently intone the mantra when you anywhere else but noticing the mantra. Is hard to be clearer I think.
Surrender to the block, accept it as a friend, love it, it is you. Resistance and force will not dent it, because you are fighting you. The harder you push, the greater the returned resistance, let go, expect nothing, you need to gently test the block with the lightest touch, like the lightest breath of wind until you find that you are no longer testing it at all. It's all training really for not grabbing and not pushing away, a perfect balance. |
Edited by - karl on Jul 22 2012 08:27:24 AM |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jul 22 2012 : 08:14:29 AM
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| "accept it as a fiend" |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Jul 22 2012 : 08:28:24 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Etherfish
"accept it as a fiend"
Wicked iPad, naughty, bad, bad iPad. |
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mikkiji
USA
219 Posts |
Posted - Jul 22 2012 : 5:57:52 PM
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Two years, three years, four years of practice... It's all merely a moment, a VERY small instant on this Path. Patience, patience! First--never compare your experiences to anybody else. Your path, and therefore your progress and your experiences, are yours alone. Although there is only one goal to the spiritual path, there are infinite routes. Be happy with what is naturally happening. You are doing your practices, so you ARE making progress. Now, just live life as the best YOU you can be, and let everything else take care of itself. This can (and usually will) take not 2 or 4 or 8 (or 16) years. This is a lifelong pursuit, we're talking 20, 40, 60 years. I'm 42 years into my formal practices, and I have been pretty deep into it all since I was 18. I'm 60 now, and I spent over 2 years full time living in ashram on retreat, spent months in satsang with His Holiness Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, studying with him, serving him and being made a teacher of meditation by him. I look back on all that, and my life as a Householder, with nostalgia and amusement, I look forward with amazement (that I'm Still Here!) and amusement, but I mostly look down at my feet (to keep from tripping) and then up at the sky (to remind myself to Be Here Now), in wonder and gratitude for just being on this path. However long it is taking, progress is steady, life unfolds to find more of itself day by day and year by year. Take a longer view, because the view from the summit is glorious, and the joy on the path is unlimited. Look about--isn't everything exactly perfect now? Remember--the beauty and love we experience in everything everywhere every day is nothing but the smile of god beaming at us. Smile back!
Michael |
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JackHenry
United Kingdom
19 Posts |
Posted - Jul 25 2012 : 2:40:54 PM
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Sorry for slow reply folks. Karl, your last post has actually really helped me I think, thankyou. I took what you said into my last couple of sessions and noticed a difference. When you say "It doesn't matter if you can't repeat the mantra, instead, just invoke the notion that you will go gently back to the mantra" this helps with the fear of encountering struggle and block, and I do seem to sail on through to the mantra in an easier way, and if I don't it's because I'm still straining in some previously unnoticed way, and in gently noticing that straining I seem to naturally realign. I think when it was going well previously, this is what I was managing to do, but I didn't know that's what I was doing, so you've clarified things. This is quite exciting, but I know I just need to keep at it.
mikkiji: "Patience, patience!". I know, it always comes back to that doesn't it? And although it was more the frustration of my own experience that I really bothered me, you're right I've probably been comparing myself to others a lot. Thanks for sharing your story, it's appreciated. A Bhagavad Gita quote from memory (Juan Mascaro translation): "Greater be thine own work, even if it be small, than the work of another, even if it be great". |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Jul 25 2012 : 4:44:23 PM
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| Just passing along the great help that was given to me for a similar problem, glad it helped. |
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inquirer
13 Posts |
Posted - Aug 18 2012 : 4:27:16 PM
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Dear Jack,
I would wholeheartedly recommend to you starting practicing asanas before meditation. For me, after few months of AYP, inlcuding Asanas Starter Kit (included in the Asanas and Lessons books) in my routine changed it significantly.
I've started to feel kundalini which made most of the practices instinctive and spontaneous. Also, if you are struggling with controlling your mind, it's many times easier to start to control your body with asanas - the mind will follow.
Yogani has chosen those integrated practices set for a reason - combined, they are most effective. The idea is to go as fast as possible, not faster. Everybody here seems to focus on the 'but not faster' part, while in your case you should rather think about making the practices more effective - there's no worry about overload. Event when it comes, you'll know it and will be able to slow down.
For me, apart from asanas, dynamic chin pump was quite an intensive booster. You should try it for yourself since everyone reacts differently according to theirs sensitivity. Some start with the energy development first which leads them to the silence part, some the other way around. You won't know unless you try.
Of course this encouragement may not be suitable for everyone, but if you were doing DM for over 4 years with just subtle effects - there's no point in waiting. If there's anything in particular that stops you from adding new practices please let us know.
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JackHenry
United Kingdom
19 Posts |
Posted - Aug 27 2012 : 6:55:22 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by inquirer
Dear Jack,
I would wholeheartedly recommend to you starting practicing asanas before meditation. For me, after few months of AYP, inlcuding Asanas Starter Kit (included in the Asanas and Lessons books) in my routine changed it significantly.
I've started to feel kundalini which made most of the practices instinctive and spontaneous. Also, if you are struggling with controlling your mind, it's many times easier to start to control your body with asanas - the mind will follow.
Yogani has chosen those integrated practices set for a reason - combined, they are most effective. The idea is to go as fast as possible, not faster. Everybody here seems to focus on the 'but not faster' part, while in your case you should rather think about making the practices more effective - there's no worry about overload. Event when it comes, you'll know it and will be able to slow down.
For me, apart from asanas, dynamic chin pump was quite an intensive booster. You should try it for yourself since everyone reacts differently according to theirs sensitivity. Some start with the energy development first which leads them to the silence part, some the other way around. You won't know unless you try.
Of course this encouragement may not be suitable for everyone, but if you were doing DM for over 4 years with just subtle effects - there's no point in waiting. If there's anything in particular that stops you from adding new practices please let us know.
Hi Inquirer,
Thanks a lot for your advice. I'm sorry for the slow reply, I thought the thread had gone silent so hadn't been checking.
I did do asanas at one point but it was a long time ago when I was probably struggling a lot and trying too hard as some of the folks upthread have said, so perhaps I could gain soemthing by experimenting with more practices like that now. I might give it a go.
You asked if there's anything that stops me from adding new practices; well yes. In general, with that sense of struggle and block I described I have found it difficult to move forward with the practices in general, and so decided to settle with just DM and SB for as long as it takes to feel comfortable.
But you could be right that I'm already as comfortable as I'll ever be after such a long time. Does 4 years seem like a lot to you, in your experience, without big big effects happening? (Although I should say that I can see a subtle though unmistakeable rise in quality of life and feelings of peace about myself, relative to the torment I used to feel 2+ years ago; maybe I'm just not a "whizz-bang" type). |
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mikkiji
USA
219 Posts |
Posted - Aug 28 2012 : 10:15:27 AM
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Dear Jack,
You need to listen to what YOU just said: quote:
"I can see a subtle though unmistakeable rise in quality of life and feelings of peace about myself"
Well, there ya go! Forget the "whizz-bang" stuff; that is, as it turns out, almost always nothing but a distraction from what you just described--subtle yet unmistakable improvements in life, relationships, happiness and peace. What is it you are expecting--magical yogic powers to levitate, turn invisible, do astral travel, see through walls...? These are the mythical superpowers of Superman, and although available to the advanced Yogi, are useless in the pursuit of self-realization, merely a distraction. Are you waiting for a shot of kundalini up your spine, exploding in your brain in a flash of fire and burning out your grip on reality...? That IS pretty whizz-bang, but neither necessary nor sufficient for reaching our goal of self-realization. You ARE, right now, living the results, in a natural and spontaneous progression of life enjoying more of itself. Smile...
Michael |
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kami
USA
921 Posts |
Posted - Aug 28 2012 : 2:10:33 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by mikkiji
Dear Jack,
You need to listen to what YOU just said: quote:
"I can see a subtle though unmistakeable rise in quality of life and feelings of peace about myself"
Well, there ya go! Forget the "whizz-bang" stuff; that is, as it turns out, almost always nothing but a distraction from what you just described--subtle yet unmistakable improvements in life, relationships, happiness and peace. What is it you are expecting--magical yogic powers to levitate, turn invisible, do astral travel, see through walls...? These are the mythical superpowers of Superman, and although available to the advanced Yogi, are useless in the pursuit of self-realization, merely a distraction. Are you waiting for a shot of kundalini up your spine, exploding in your brain in a flash of fire and burning out your grip on reality...? That IS pretty whizz-bang, but neither necessary nor sufficient for reaching our goal of self-realization. You ARE, right now, living the results, in a natural and spontaneous progression of life enjoying more of itself. Smile...
Michael
Hi Jack
This above from Michael is probably the best piece of advice anyone can give you about expectations. I can totally resonate with your frustration about slow progress.. I somehow equated "progress" with energy symptoms, particularly since everyone else on these forums seemed to be reveling in them In the process, I overlooked the very "quiet" progress that was going on, changing things from within at a very steady pace. One thing I would add to Michael's wise words is that each of us is *very* different in how openings occur and progress is made - never the same way twice, as they say.. Useful for all of us to remember that energy experiences can mean nothing in the long run, and dont necessarily translate into peace, joy and love. Sometimes, they can actually cause more ego issues and increase the sense of separation from others.
The pace at which things are happening for you is *exactly* right for you. If something different was necessary, that would happen whether you "wanted" it or not
I would agree wholeheartedly with Ether - having an Ishta to surrender all this to makes it easier, at least in terms of giving up expectations. Bhakti/devotion is what gets me through it all.
Love,
kami |
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Victor
USA
910 Posts |
Posted - Aug 28 2012 : 8:21:11 PM
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| Do you practice kechari? That is what led me to AYP and is basically what sets it apart for me from the many other meditation practices out there. I had attempted meditation for quite a few years before discovering AYP but never really was able to meditate until I learned kechari. Now of course it is no big deal but that is how everything feels once you integrate it into your life. |
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JackHenry
United Kingdom
19 Posts |
Posted - Aug 31 2012 : 10:23:57 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by mikkiji
Dear Jack,
You need to listen to what YOU just said: quote:
"I can see a subtle though unmistakeable rise in quality of life and feelings of peace about myself"
Well, there ya go! Forget the "whizz-bang" stuff; that is, as it turns out, almost always nothing but a distraction from what you just described--subtle yet unmistakable improvements in life, relationships, happiness and peace. What is it you are expecting--magical yogic powers to levitate, turn invisible, do astral travel, see through walls...? These are the mythical superpowers of Superman, and although available to the advanced Yogi, are useless in the pursuit of self-realization, merely a distraction. Are you waiting for a shot of kundalini up your spine, exploding in your brain in a flash of fire and burning out your grip on reality...? That IS pretty whizz-bang, but neither necessary nor sufficient for reaching our goal of self-realization. You ARE, right now, living the results, in a natural and spontaneous progression of life enjoying more of itself. Smile...
Michael
Hi Michael
Thanks. I see what you mean. Though when I say "whizz-bang" I don't really mean what you're describing there, I mean more just an end to the sense of block and "2 steps forward, 1 step back". But then there IS the slowly rising sense of acceptance and peace too, which as you say is the real deal. So I think what is hopefully happening is that that slowly rising tide will eat away more and more at the frantic grasping part of myself, so I can keep letting go...keep letting go...and the sense of block will go with it. I have experienced that happening, but it's a kind of up and down thing, and part of me wants to pass a clearly marked milestone that says "THAT'S IT, THE BLOCK IS GONE FOR EVER!!! WHEEE!!", when of course in my calmer moments I can see that is delusional, this sense of block is some manifestation of a whole neurotic part of myself, and it doesn't just vanish like that...
Kami and Victor, thanks also for the input. I'm not yet up to Kechari or anything like that, but what I have started only in the last few days is Sambhavi + Mulabhanda (was already kind of doing Mulabhanda), and I think that is having a quickening effect. It occured to me that I probably could have built up the energy practices side long ago, but my expectations/struggling with the DM held me back. I thought I was doing something wrong. Now I feel that maybe the DM is probably going as fast as it can on its own, and that's ok, but I can now try channeling extra juice/energy in a judicious way with Sambhavi/Mulabhanda, and hopefully moving on to Yoni Mudra Kumbhaka etc...and these practicies will help me move past the sense of block more. I feel just adding Sambhavi is helping with that already, but we'll see.
I have another question regarding Spinal Breathing. Perhaps I should start a new thread for it, I'd be happy to if the moderators wish.
It's just this: is it ok to take what I call "rest breaths' during SB - one or two breaths without tracing the nerve in between tracings? I've been following people's advice about trusting my body/mind more, and I have an urge to do my SB in this way. Trying to trace it with every breath even for only a 5 mins session or less feels like too much, and I get a bit tense trying to do it "right" etc. Whereas if I trace the nerve, then chill a bit, then trace it when I feel ready again, then chill...I get a much better experience. Any thoughts? |
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kami
USA
921 Posts |
Posted - Aug 31 2012 : 12:46:08 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by JackHenry
I have another question regarding Spinal Breathing. Perhaps I should start a new thread for it, I'd be happy to if the moderators wish.
It's just this: is it ok to take what I call "rest breaths' during SB - one or two breaths without tracing the nerve in between tracings? I've been following people's advice about trusting my body/mind more, and I have an urge to do my SB in this way. Trying to trace it with every breath even for only a 5 mins session or less feels like too much, and I get a bit tense trying to do it "right" etc. Whereas if I trace the nerve, then chill a bit, then trace it when I feel ready again, then chill...I get a much better experience. Any thoughts?
Hi Jack
Sounds ok to me. The only thing I would advise is that wait for SB to become smooth before adding anything more.. For me, more than kechari, yoni mudra kumbhaka was very effective in moving things along.. Take it easy!!
Love,
kami |
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JackHenry
United Kingdom
19 Posts |
Posted - Aug 31 2012 : 1:03:11 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by kami
quote:
Originally posted by JackHenry
I have another question regarding Spinal Breathing. Perhaps I should start a new thread for it, I'd be happy to if the moderators wish.
It's just this: is it ok to take what I call "rest breaths' during SB - one or two breaths without tracing the nerve in between tracings? I've been following people's advice about trusting my body/mind more, and I have an urge to do my SB in this way. Trying to trace it with every breath even for only a 5 mins session or less feels like too much, and I get a bit tense trying to do it "right" etc. Whereas if I trace the nerve, then chill a bit, then trace it when I feel ready again, then chill...I get a much better experience. Any thoughts?
Hi Jack
Sounds ok to me. The only thing I would advise is that wait for SB to become smooth before adding anything more.. For me, more than kechari, yoni mudra kumbhaka was very effective in moving things along.. Take it easy!!
Love,
kami
Hi Kami,
Thanks. The thing is I think I have trouble gauging smoothness with confidence because of the struggling tendency I've been through..but I had felt that my SB was smooth, except that it felt necessary to take little rest breaths as described. If that is in fact an indicator of non-smoothness in other people's views then I'm not sure when this smoothness will ever come to a satisfactory degree, considering how long I've been doing SB. I suppose the litmus test as always is how I feel after the sessions, and I'm not overloading with Sambhavi yet.
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Edited by - JackHenry on Aug 31 2012 1:09:24 PM |
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Making progress, but so slow!
