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Chakburthi
Germany
35 Posts |
 Posted - Jun 15 2012 : 6:53:00 PM
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Hi everybody: I have been practicing samyama since one and a half years now and enjoy it as part of my twice a day routine. At some point though and only when doing the "health" sutra, I started to automatically, compulsively, add the opposite thought, "sickness". This started happening during a difficult hypochondriatic time when I was in great fear of being sick. This compulsive thought even advanced to "death" at some point. Somehow I just couldn't get rid of it anymore. My current "solution" is to think "death overcomer" instead of only "death" after the "health" sutra to somehow give this a positive spin. Still, I'd rather use only the "health" sutra. It turns out to be quite challenging to force yourself to not thinking a thought. I should point out that my health is wonderfully well since starting ayp two and a half years ago (namaste yogani!). I mean I didn't even have a slight cold. So I guess, there is no real problem here. Still, pure samyama as it works well for me with all the other sutras (hmm, akasha has been quite amazing! I am actually starting to consider levitation a possibility) would be much preferred.
Any help would be highly appreciated. In return I will be happy to tell you my uplifting khechari story :-)
Thank you and lots of love to all of you out there all over the world practicing with me on weekends.
Ben |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Jun 16 2012 : 08:22:40 AM
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Hi Ben,
Welcome to the AYP forums.
Since you have been practicing samyama for a year and a half now, you may have started getting answers from inner silence.
We practice samyama with positive words, but when negative words come up, we take it as a way inner silence is communicating with us. Death does not have to mean physical death, it could be death of a block, death of a concept, death of a idea that is keeping us bound, or inner silence is making us aware of our fear of death. Similarly sickness could be a block that inner silence is making you aware of.
When something like this comes up naturally take it and treat it as words from your inner silence, and drop them back into inner silence with an intention to see what it is trying to show you.
Becoming scared or overly attached or concerned will not help, as it defeats the purpose of samyama... Samyama is here to show us, a way to communicate with our inner silence, just that inner silence does not communicate like the mind does, and the mind wants to grab and get an answer, but best to take what comes to us from inner silence and let it go into inner silence again and again.
It may or maynot take a long time, depending on how big a block it is or how big an issue it is in your life, to see what inner silence is trying to communicate with you with these words, but all we can do is to not try to attach a mind level understanding to the words and keep on letting it go when it comes up with an intention to see (if you want to that is).
However, remember to stay with the core practice. Don't make sickness or death a part of your every day practice and do samyama on them everyday. But if they come up naturally, don't push them away, just pick them like any other sutra and let them go, a few times, and try to get back to your practice. If it becomes impossible to go back to your normal sutras, just gently come out of it and rest.
I hope this helps.
PS: remember, something will become compulsive if we are trying to fight it, what we resist persists, the idea is to treat it like any other sutra with the trust that that is what inner silence wants you to become aware of right now, and let it go. The more you can not worry about it, the less compulsive it will become. |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jun 16 2012 : 08:58:58 AM
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Perfect answer Shanti. A little side note, not nearly as important: when you do spiritual practices it minimizes the ego, and the ego doesn't like that because it thinks it is dying. The ego has a mind of it's own and tries to fight back.
nothing to worry about tho; it's a paper tiger. |
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Chakburthi
Germany
35 Posts |
Posted - Jun 17 2012 : 08:40:02 AM
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Thank you so much for your kind suggestions, Shanti! Also thanks Etherfish. I guess I will try not to fight it anymore. It hasn't been a major issue for me anyway. It had been a while ago but now this is more like this game when someone asks you to not think about a blue horse and of course the opposite will happen. This seems to me indeed like a mind game. The more inner sillence will be in place, the less mind will be there.
Anyway, I really appreciate your help. It is super nice to know there are people out there that practice along similar lines and understand the issues that may come up. Thanks!
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Jun 17 2012 : 09:19:36 AM
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What a great reply Shanti. I don't have a direct connection with Sanyama in that way. Instead things manifest externally. It really is like a Genie, be careful what you wish for because it does happen |
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Will Power
Spain
415 Posts |
Posted - Jun 17 2012 : 4:09:38 PM
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Hi, something very similar happens to me. In my case it's the name of a disease. So shall I also release it also in Samyama some times according to what you said, Shanti? I am afraid that it'll manifest if I do so.
Thank for your replies! |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Jun 17 2012 : 10:13:33 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Will Power
Hi, something very similar happens to me. In my case it's the name of a disease. So shall I also release it also in Samyama some times according to what you said, Shanti? I am afraid that it'll manifest if I do so.
Thank for your replies!
Hi Will Power,
In my experience, going too specific in samyama is not every helpful. The more we define something, the more diluted the effects of samyama gets.
That is why, the sutras are very general... " love" can mean whatever to one person and over time there is scope and room for the meaning to change and grow. As more layers/blocks fall, our mind definition and inner understanding of the word " love" changes.
With health and/or sickness or death, again, they are very broad words that can change as we open more.
However if we take a word that defines a specific health problem or specific disease, then we are going into the area of the concrete. The more concrete a definition, the less room we give inner silence to manifest what we need in our life. That is why in group samyama, we pick the name of the person and let it go in stillness, we try to stay as far away as possible from defining specific problems, a heart problem could be due to physical factors, environmental factors, hereditary factors, nutritional factors, stress levels, emotional problems, spiritual blocks, and a million other things... we really don't know how or what to heal ... so we just pick the name of the person and let it go in silence with an intention to heal and let inner silence take care of the rest.
So my long about way of saying, not to pick the "name" of a specific disease (unless of course you are really suffering from it, and even then, health or healing may be a better sutra to work with than the specific name).
However, what happens if it does come up naturally? Like anything else, not attach to it with the mind (afraid it may manifest) but drop it into silence with an intention of knowing why it came up, but not worrying/obsessing about it.
Sorry, I hope this did answer your question. |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jun 17 2012 : 10:54:55 PM
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| Maybe Shanti could tell you if this is OK - but I like to use the word "healing" and it works for me. |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Jun 17 2012 : 11:04:19 PM
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Hi Chakburthi and Will Power,
I had a different albiet similar issue with the Abundance sutra back in 2008. I opened a thread on it here: http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....OPIC_ID=4407
Yogani's response here: http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....D=4407#37364 really helped to set my mind at ease. Particularly this here:
"The worth of a sutra will not be settled in mind by intellectualizing the pros or cons of abundance, or anything else. In stillness it will always manifest for the best, on the side of evolution. That is why the abundance sutra is there, balanced and rounded out by the rest of the sutras on the list. It is not about making value judgments. It is about moving inner silence through a range of channels, purifying them over time. Then all of our desires and actions will be in harmony with divine purpose, even as we go about our normal daily business.
In the Samyama book the optional practice of doing samyama on obstructions to enlightenment is introduced (p68), utilizing sutras that are generally regarded to be very negative in meaning. Yet, by releasing these sutras in stillness, we are purifying the channels that are producing the negative outcomes associated with them -- dissolving those obstructions.
Abundance does not usually fit into that category (as an obstruction), but if it did (as you are suggesting in this case), it would not make any difference. The outcome would be the same, the removal of obstructions and the promotion of evolutionary abundance in all of nature, including in humankind."
So, although my issue was with the Abundance sutra (I saw it as negative) I think that Yogani's answer is applicable here and could potentially be helpful.
Best of luck!
Love!
Carson  |
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Chakburthi
Germany
35 Posts |
Posted - Jun 18 2012 : 06:58:24 AM
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| Thank you very much Carson. Now, this is really interesting what you are saying and also what Yogani commented. I guess I do see the relationship of our Samyama inquiries. In one sense we have both questioned the self-regulating power of Samyama. Somewhere Yogani explains this by saying that even if you try to use Samyama as a magical tool by wishing someone ill or monetary wealthiness, it will not work. Similarly, even if I’d desire disease or death on some level, Samyama will not deliver it. Still, I wish Akasha would really work...;-) |
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Will Power
Spain
415 Posts |
Posted - Jun 19 2012 : 07:05:34 AM
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| Very interesting all of your responses. Thank you all very much |
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gentlep
USA
114 Posts |
Posted - Jun 24 2012 : 4:33:35 PM
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| Replying to Shanti's post, I find it difficult to let go into the silence when the negative comes up. It is easier with the positive. How do you handle that? |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Jun 24 2012 : 7:33:03 PM
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The reason we cannot let negative throughs go is because our mind grabs and dwells on it faster than positive thoughts. That is one reason Byron Katie's " the work" is a good technique to use initially for negative thoughts. "is it true? can you be sure it's true?"... helps us see the possibllity of a negative thought, especially the degree with which it takes over our lives, actually being true. Once a thought has taken over our mind, it is very hard to drop it... but seeing through it is a good way to letting it go.
However, in samyama when a negative word comes up naturally, we have just finished meditation, we are still enjoying the presence of inner silence and the mind is not as active (that is why the word did come up from inner silence in the first place), at that time, letting it go before the mind has taken over is much easier... trusting that the word does not mean the only meaning our mind can think of also helps. Like I said, if the word death comes up, if we are in mind we can go into death meaning the end of this physical body, but knowing it could mean death of a thought, conditioning, block, ego, can help our mind relax and we can let it go.
Does this help Gentlep? |
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gentlep
USA
114 Posts |
Posted - Jun 24 2012 : 7:58:10 PM
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| Thanks Shanti. I will have to try again and see when it comes up next time. But from what I remember, it generally accompanies with a dissatisfaction feeling or restlessness in the body. There are chain of thoughts and stories that mind makes up as you said but, from what I remember from the last experience, even if I could let those superficial thoughts go thinking in the similar lines as you said at the end, that the thought may not mean what it seems, but the restlessness in the body remained and it was hard to go back into the silence. Sometimes also it was true that the negative thought as at the fuzziest level but the feeling in the body was more prominent. For example a negative reaction in the body to the word love or abundance. Now yogani said it's ok for the negative reaction, we just have to release it into stillness. But that's what I was finding it a little difficult. And that's not the time to identify what was the thought or story behind it that is causing the distress and do Byron Katie's work on it. Then the 15seconds pass without going back to stillness and time to change sutra. So was that previous sutra useful or harmful at that point as it couldn't be released into stillness. |
Edited by - gentlep on Jun 24 2012 8:27:29 PM |
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Will Power
Spain
415 Posts |
Posted - Jun 25 2012 : 2:52:41 PM
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Today I've been told by doctors that a relative has that disease, and has have it for many months without nobody noticing. I guess the Silence was telling me that.
Thanks everyone. |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Jun 25 2012 : 6:20:10 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by gentlep
. But from what I remember, it generally accompanies with a dissatisfaction feeling or restlessness in the body.
For example a negative reaction in the body to the word love or abundance. Now yogani said it's OK for the negative reaction, we just have to release it into stillness. But that's what I was finding it a little difficult. And that's not the time to identify what was the thought or story behind it that is causing the distress and do Byron Katie's work on it. Then the 15seconds pass without going back to stillness and time to change sutra. So was that previous sutra useful or harmful at that point as it couldn't be released into stillness.
The negative reactions in the body is also conditioned/learnt reactions. Even after the mind story is gone, the physical reactions may come up. But every time they come up, we tell ourselves, the stories are gone, we have seen through the mind evaluation of it, so we can let it go, and relax. This takes long as the body is made to react to protect... the mind has taught it to react to certain words, we have seen through the mind, but now we have to teach the body to relax as well. It will happen, it takes time. Think about how long we have build up these reactions, how long we have continued to build stories, give yourself a lot of credit to have seen through the mind story, now be kind to yourself and let the body relax and unlearn the reactions. You have gone through a lot in life Gentlep... Be kind to yourself, and acknowledge how much you have let go and pat yourself on the back for that, then continue observing the uneasiness and discomforts and relax and tell yourself it's OK... don't let the mind convince you that you have not got things perfected. Baby steps. That is what Yogani means by letting the negative body reactions go into stillness. You cannot change the feelings overnight, but you can relax into stillness every time they come up and teach the body to let go as well.
During samyama is not the time to do Katie... I agree... but if the feeling of dissatisfaction and discomfort continues after the session, you can do Katie on it, and you can also tell yourself you have seen through the story, so the body can relax.
Also remember, the stories have many layers, seeing through one may not be the end of it... we have a lifetime of stories that at times we don't even remember that are stored within us... we see through one at a time, release one at a time, then there will be a point we will see a root cause, a root thing that has been haunting us all our lives (it will be a pattern), we can then do samyama on the root word and that will help let go the thing entirely.
You are brave to keep at it Gentlep, don't be disheartened... it all works out at the end, we just keep going with an intention to be free of it... that is all we can do.
Wish you all the best. |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Jun 25 2012 : 6:23:44 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Will Power
Today I've been told by doctors that a relative has that disease, and has have it for many months without nobody noticing. I guess the Silence was telling me that.
Thanks everyone.
Wow Will Power,that is an amazing siddhi eh? Stillness speaks to you and you now know what it was trying to tell you. Be amazed by it, but don't try to hold on to it or make it happen again... you will be amazed at how much stillness will tell you, and you will soon know how it communicates with you, just keep the mind out of the way and you will be shown so much.
All the best! |
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Will Power
Spain
415 Posts |
Posted - Jun 28 2012 : 3:39:01 PM
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| Thank you, Shanti |
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Chakburthi
Germany
35 Posts |
Posted - Jul 19 2012 : 02:32:16 AM
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| It may sound strange but I have found a stable and practical solution to my Samyama issue. Instead of "health", I now use "health - death of ego". This goes well with inner silence and is left undisturbed by ego interference. Maybe after some time I can come back to the original sutra. Thanks again for your kind suggestions. |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Jul 24 2012 : 10:11:07 AM
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Sounds good Chakburthi.
Just stay open to it changing or dropping if it needs to... don't go looking for it to change or dropping it, but if it does happen, don't hold on to it either.
Wish you all the best! |
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samyama: compulsive opposite sutra
