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beetsmyth
USA
104 Posts |
 Posted - May 14 2012 : 3:48:09 PM
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In all my years on various paths, various mystical noetic experiences, tastes of Oneness, divine Love, etc.... I still look around and see this all as madness.
All the atrocities around the world, wars, rape, pillages, starvation, cancers/disease, death. These puny limited fragile bodies we live in, with all these constraints and limits, sometimes taking years to have a Spiritual breakthrough.
All for what? I remember pre-existing and did not want to come here. Even then I saw this place as insanity. Yet I came to help in my small little tiny way.
Still, I assume most of us believe in God, or have experienced so. Why not just stop this craziness? Or is it up to us as a collective?
On another note, I do see Love, help, friends, kindness, the awakened ones guiding others, etc just to say I am not entirely on the neg side of world views.
Whats your take people? |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - May 14 2012 : 4:24:05 PM
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| Nothing. |
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LittleTurtle
USA
342 Posts |
Posted - May 14 2012 : 5:38:14 PM
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Love the post title! Total agreement. It is insanity! When I have a bad day or three, as I am now lol, I often swear to myself "I'm never coming here again!". Then as if by some random whatever I'll see through the veil a bit and something lovely and bright will happen and the world will appear beautiful and full of love and truth. I just wish the cosmic pendulum would stop swinging so wildly so we all could figure out what the heck is really going on.  |
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beetsmyth
USA
104 Posts |
Posted - May 14 2012 : 6:08:54 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by karl
Nothing.
Thats it? I understand the take of no take especially in a nondual state, however are we to do nothing while there are starving kids around and we continue in meditation and breath exercises? |
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DoctorWho
USA
47 Posts |
Posted - May 14 2012 : 7:59:01 PM
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It's great to try and relieve the material suffering of others (food, shelter, sickness etc)...we must.
But all the "...world, wars, rape, pillages, starvation" etc you mention do not exist in a vacuum. It is all a result of our delusion. It is the human condition.
My personal take is... to work arduously for SELF-realization and become a beacon for others. To help them understand the root causes and conditions of their suffering and to assist them in their own SELF-realization. Essentially, the Bodhisattva vow in the Buddhist tradition.
This is far more beneficial and real assistance than all of the politics, organizations, busy-bodies, and utopians can "do" in the world. As an example, what Yogani has done here by sharing his experience and methods with AYP is an immeasurable benefit to those who find it...and has even further ripple effects if we put it into practice and take that into the world of action. This is what changes the world. In short....it's a do-it-yourself-job.
It reminded me of this famous analogy:
" It was once said that if we had to cover the whole surface of the earth in order to protect our feet from being cut by sticks and stones, if we had to cover the whole surface of the earth with leather, this would be a very difficult undertaking. But by covering only the surface of our feet with leather it is as if the whole surface of the earth were covered with leather. In the same way if we had to purify the whole universe of greed, anger and delusion, it would be a very difficult task. Simply by purifying our own mind of greed, anger and delusion it is as if the whole universe were purified of these defilements. "
Be Well My Friend |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - May 14 2012 : 8:18:59 PM
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That's a great analogy Dr Who!
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Sometimes when we put things in words they seem simpler than they actually are. There is enough negativity in the world to spend ALL your time being aware of it. And there is enough positivity to spend ALL your time on that.
Whichever side you choose to dedicate your life to adds one more person to the existing count. If you choose negativity, there is one more negative person than there was before. Multiply that by a billion, and you can see the effect.
You can help people all you want but you won't change their karma. The less enlightened you are, the more likely that your help isn't really helping. You are just making yourself feel better instead.
So working toward your own enlightenment not only sets an example for others to follow, but makes you increasingly valuable to help others; a prime example being what Yogani does.
PS I LOVE this insanity! I chose to be a part of this world. It is perfect for me. I love everything being upside down and backwards and not sustainable. It means that everything has to change soon, and we probably get to see it happen. For thousands of years things have been upside down, unjust, and corrupt, but not enough to fall apart. This is the most exciting time ever BECAUSE of the instability. |
Edited by - Etherfish on May 14 2012 8:25:36 PM |
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DoctorWho
USA
47 Posts |
Posted - May 14 2012 : 10:34:30 PM
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quote:
PS I LOVE this insanity! I chose to be a part of this world. It is perfect for me. I love everything being upside down and backwards and not sustainable. It means that everything has to change soon, and we probably get to see it happen. For thousands of years things have been upside down, unjust, and corrupt, but not enough to fall apart. This is the most exciting time ever BECAUSE of the instability.
I agree Etherfish...as crazy as it sounds.
In actuality. Everything is perfect just as it is...from an ultimate perspective. Karma plays out perfectly and every cause and condition is generated, comes to fruition and expires just in the exact way that it should. As humans we can't play with matches and then be surprised that we burn our fingers on occasion (and sometimes torch the whole neighborhood!)
Of course, mere mortals like ourselves cannot stand and look at the world detached and unaffected by great suffering (and conversely great joy). From our conventional perspective...it can be a nightmare. The detached perspective is only for those masters who have shed all attachment |
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SeySorciere
Seychelles
1571 Posts |
Posted - May 15 2012 : 01:41:30 AM
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quote:
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You can help people all you want but you won't change their karma. The less enlightened you are, the more likely that your help isn't really helping. You are just making yourself feel better instead.
So working toward your own enlightenment not only sets an example for others to follow, but makes you increasingly valuable to help others; a prime example being what Yogani does.
PS I LOVE this insanity! I chose to be a part of this world. It is perfect for me. I love everything being upside down and backwards and not sustainable. It means that everything has to change soon, and we probably get to see it happen. For thousands of years things have been upside down, unjust, and corrupt, but not enough to fall apart. This is the most exciting time ever BECAUSE of the instability.
AMEN !
I totally agree Etherfish. This reality /this Earth/ this Universe /these delusions are so utterly WONDROUS and AMAZING, I am often flabbergasted by people who see only atrocities and suffering.
Sey |
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crazymandrew
USA
121 Posts |
Posted - May 15 2012 : 01:43:18 AM
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I strongly recommend checking out the website www.PleiadianTalk.com.
He claims the earth is controlled by entities that feed off of negative energy. It's also a system that is designed to keep spirits trapped. It may sound crazy but I've seen a lot of evidence for it. In fact I feel like I have really gotten familiar with the entity that bothers me. Hopefully I can literally get proof of it sometime in the near future. |
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maheswari
Lebanon
2520 Posts |
Posted - May 15 2012 : 02:08:07 AM
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quote:
You can help people all you want but you won't change their karma. The less enlightened you are, the more likely that your help isn't really helping. You are just making yourself feel better instead.
So working toward your own enlightenment not only sets an example for others to follow, but makes you increasingly valuable to help others; a prime example being what Yogani does.
as Sey said...AMEN
thank you Ether
also advise reading lesson 344
http://www.aypsite.org/344.html |
Edited by - maheswari on May 15 2012 02:09:14 AM |
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Radharani
USA
843 Posts |
Posted - May 15 2012 : 02:23:52 AM
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I agree with Dr. Who and Ether.
and on some level, with Karl.
Here's the thing: Yes, the world is insane and totally messed up. Nobody has ever succeeded in explaining why a benevolent God would allow it. ("the problem of evil") We may never have a satisfactory "explanation." However, what we DO know is that each of us contributes our own part in the drama, and that begins with ourselves and our own liberation so that we can be a clear channel of Love in this world. Our spiritual practice benefits not only ourself, but everyone we interact with. As we go deeper in our meditation and samyama, certainly the ripples of that silence will spread out around us. I think this was actually demonstrated with TM, where the crime rate fell when people were meditating. Anyway I've seen it happen in a room of people so it's not hard to imagine it could spread over the whole world... That's not to say we should ignore practical works such as feeding the poor and so on. But IMO the real work which will actually change things is to bring more light into the world and raise the consciousness. It's hard to reconcile the craziness and negativity in the world with Divine Love, but when you realize you ARE that - a manifestation of that - then you simply BE that in the midst of the world. What else can we really do? |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - May 15 2012 : 04:19:01 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by beetsmyth
quote:
Originally posted by karl
Nothing.
Thats it? I understand the take of no take especially in a nondual state, however are we to do nothing while there are starving kids around and we continue in meditation and breath exercises?
Just stop thinking you control anything and it will be clear. I am not none dual, or in a none dual state, neither do I seek isolation from anything. It is so incredibly simple, just give up the illusion of control, once you do, then witness your complicity in everything. Even God has no control.
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Jose
Spain
40 Posts |
Posted - May 15 2012 : 07:01:01 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by beetsmyth
Still, I assume most of us believe in God, or have experienced so. Why not just stop this craziness? Or is it up to us as a collective?
I think that's one of our problems: we keep viewing God as human as us, and that's pointless. God is far beyond that and we -tiny little human beings- cannot understand it with our tiny little human brains.
I've read very good posts here; I think I found the right forum for me now.
Thanks. |
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Heartsoflove
USA
19 Posts |
Posted - May 15 2012 : 08:35:25 AM
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| Yeah, it's a mess. Eckhart Tolle has some interesting things to say about it in his books--just about to finish 'A New Earth' which blames our condition on our compulsive identification with our nasty and dangerous egoes. It may seem oversimplified but he really lays it out there. HOL |
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maheswari
Lebanon
2520 Posts |
Posted - May 15 2012 : 08:56:27 AM
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quote:
I've read very good posts here; I think I found the right forum for me now.
yes Jose it is a great spiritual helpful gathering....keep exploring...slow and steady |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - May 15 2012 : 10:25:41 PM
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My opinion of why God doesn't interfere:
God knows that we are immortal and none of this is real. And he knows that each of us must live out our karma without interference to complete ourselves properly.
If he stops all the evil, what happens to that seed of evil that is within evil people? If he cuts it out, what you are left with is a formerly evil person acting all nice because something is missing, like giving them a lobotomy. But if the evil is expressed naturally, then the resulting karma experienced, that evil seed can finally go away. Time is also an illusion God can see past, so it doesn't matter if it takes a million years or one day, if the outcome is for the best. |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - May 16 2012 : 03:55:47 AM
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God has no control and interference isn't control. You have to choose to go to God. It's an entirely personal relationship. We do not do evil in Gods eye. We are always loved by God. The Garden of Eden Story is quite clear on that, even if the story is fictional, the meaning isn't. Adam and Eve went against Gods command and God was powerless to stop them. God could have made the tree of knowledge inaccessible but chose simply to ask them not to eat from it.
All creations are created of love. You can destroy the creation but that serves no purpose when you are compelled to create. You cannot be restrictive on what the creation does, cannot be fearful of it or you would not create it in the first place because nothing would ever be created. So, you have to give the creation free will, but the important point is that free will in no way implies control. We are all creators. We do not control the creation.
While you are in the world you are unwittingly complicit in everything that happens and are effected by everything that happens. It can be seen in physics as the Butterfly effect. Essentially you cannot know your contribution or effect. One thing is certain. You only know about it because you are here. That implies that you are the cause of everything. That is why you should only look inside for the answer. |
Edited by - karl on May 16 2012 03:58:34 AM |
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Will Power
Spain
415 Posts |
Posted - May 16 2012 : 06:40:02 AM
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| Beautiful post, Karl. I misinterpreted other post of yours. So you believe in free will and that we create and therefore have at least a certain amount of control of what we create, but not on the creations, right? |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - May 16 2012 : 08:28:02 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Will Power
Beautiful post, Karl. I misinterpreted other post of yours. So you believe in free will and that we create and therefore have at least a certain amount of control of what we create, but not on the creations, right?
Well you see it looks like that from one view point. That's why it can't be said as being incorrect. However from another viewpoint the idea of control and free will vanishes.
Let's say you get up in a morning and decide to have coffee. Well it seems like a choice, but actually you bought coffee so you could drink it on a morning. Why coffee? Why did you choose that particular substance ? It's because you like Coffee and it's available. Why do you like Cofffee? Well you don't really know do you ? You tried it and liked it and now you are having it for breakfast.
So let's have a look at liking. Where is the liking for Coffee connected to free will ? Try and find out . Guess what ? you can't, there appears no reason at all. So was it a conscious decision to like Coffee? Well it seems something made the decision yet you are not consciously aware of how that was made. It's impossible to say it was free will, because it would imply we knew ' how' you liked coffee. As far as you know, a coffee fairy whispered the thoight into your ear while you were asleep  .
You can see this weird circularity in the Garden of Eden story. God made the tree, snake, man and woman . Why did God do that ? Does God know why he was compelled to create these things ?
Now, Adam took the fruit despite Gods orders. Man was compelled to do as God had done, but without God creating all those things Adam could never have consumed the Apple. Adam only had what appeared to free will because God had created those particular circumstances. Adam can no more tell you why he took the Apple than you can know why you like Coffee. God has no more idea why he created Man than Adam knew why he had taken the Apple.
So, at the point you get the coffee jar down from the shelf it appears that you made a totally free choice. In fact we know from scientific evidence that you made the unconscious choice several seconds before the conscious decision.
Now let's look at control. Sticking to Coffee and just a few of the infinite elements that make up the impact of having a simple cup of coffee. You put water in a kettle, you turn on the kettle, put in the coffee. Look what that creates. You use coffee, so you create a need for more coffee to be created, you use fresh water which requires cleaning and pumping and storage, you use energy burning fossil fuels , you heat the environment. You create change. The Coffee drinking isn't a static event, it explodes through the cosmos like a pinball game, it changes things in a totally unpredictably. Douglas Adams books often flirted with that idea in a humorous way, but it's real, you could actually end a Galaxy by drinking one single cup of freshly ground coffee beans. It's Chaos theory in action.
God could not control Adam. That's a clear sign. If God could not control Adam then who can control anything at all.
So yes, we have the free will to create, but as we have no idea why we create then you have to wonder what actually is free will.
It is impossible to really get a sense of this without giving up the idea of free will and control in the first place. What use is it ?
Gods little experiment proved this to be true. Given with paradise Man opted to ruin it, he exerted free will and believed that earthly knowledge would allow him to control everything. God did not try and control that situation because God knew it wasn't possible, even though he commanded it. |
Edited by - karl on May 16 2012 08:35:18 AM |
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Will Power
Spain
415 Posts |
Posted - May 16 2012 : 11:26:32 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by karl
Adam only had what appeared to free will because God had created those particular circumstances. Adam can no more tell you why he took the Apple than you can know why you like Coffee. God has no more idea why he created Man than Adam knew why he had taken the Apple.
I understand |
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the Earth realm is Insanity! & yet continues..
