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Anibaru
Chile
72 Posts |
 Posted - Apr 12 2012 : 3:50:46 PM
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Hi everyone,
Just wanted to ask something, probably someone just answered this, but i could not find it.
When i do DM and start "saying the mantra" some things happen.
The AYAM part word into something else like OYEM or AYUEM, and after a while
it changes into a sound (not more a "word"). So it´s like the mantra dissolves
It happened to me once that the sound started to repeat very fast. This is a bit scary as it looks like im getting into some trance 
Is the mantra supposed to dissolve? every time i get into DM it dissolves into something different, and more upsetting: after getting off DM and wait 5 minutes i can´t remember what was the sound, it stays in my head for a while then it goes away.
So my question:
Am i doing it wrong? (probably)
Should i force the mantra despite the sound?
Thanks for your help! |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Apr 12 2012 : 6:17:05 PM
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The speed, pronunciation, clarity etc. of the mantra will change over time.
So don't worry about that.
Just remember to go back to "I am" and a normal speed any time you realize you are not doing so.
Wish you all the best. |
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AumNaturel
Canada
687 Posts |
Posted - Apr 12 2012 : 6:46:34 PM
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"begin to repeat it easily and effortlessly in your mind...When you realize you are not repeating the mantra, gently go back to it" -Lesson 13
It can be like that, keeping to a routine, then at some point re-visiting a lesson only to find something stand out that might not have before. There's nothing wrong with that. It's all part of good practice and learning. |
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Bourgo
USA
57 Posts |
Posted - Apr 13 2012 : 2:32:56 PM
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For me, AYAM gradually morphs into OM pretty much every session. Sometimes I come back to the mantra and its like I'm not even pronouncing the mantra at all. Its like I'm simply noticing when I should be repeating the mantra, but without actually repeating anything.
Either way, I think that is fine, because Yogani instructs to come back to the mantra effortlessly without straining for a specific level of clarity to the word itself. |
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thezuck
USA
24 Posts |
Posted - Apr 17 2012 : 12:33:01 PM
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Hello Anibaru....
I wouldnt be afraid of going into a "trance". If you will allow it, the only place you will go is more deeply into truth, yourself.....
Concerns about where the mantra is going could be considered "scenery" as well.
All the best,
Shane |
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cff
Canada
40 Posts |
Posted - Apr 18 2012 : 09:39:24 AM
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Like Bourgo, my AYAM turns into OM or ATMA or into silence, then thoughts arise and I end up realizing I got off course.
Rinse and repeat. |
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AumNaturel
Canada
687 Posts |
Posted - Apr 18 2012 : 3:47:37 PM
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Be sure you gently favor the mantra you are using as recommended in the lessons. Using mantra enhancements like OM before you work your way up to them is not recommended in AYP. Do favor the refined level of clarity of that mantra if and when that happens on its own, such as that level just before going off the mantra, but not its variations or even other mantras or enhancements.
I'm not sure how I got that idea at some point that it's ok to favor the mantra as it itself changes. It is not (unless someone can correct me from the lessons). After checking back with the lessons, there was nothing on that I could find. The mantra is one thing, its level of clarity or refinement is another. Of course it may not be possible to avoid mantra itself changing, and that's ok, but when it becomes possible, gently go back to the mantra and not its changed form. |
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Anibaru
Chile
72 Posts |
Posted - Apr 19 2012 : 9:49:11 PM
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I guess i'll have to try the different options:
returning to AYAM once it changes. And the other one to allow it to transform into something else.
If i have another question about the mantra should i write it here? or do i create a new post?
Anyway. How is one supposed to repeat the mantra? fast? slow? with a note on it (like singing)?
It's very hard to separate it from the breathing process |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Apr 20 2012 : 03:59:51 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Anibaru
I guess i'll have to try the different options:
returning to AYAM once it changes. And the other one to allow it to transform into something else.
If i have another question about the mantra should i write it here? or do i create a new post?
Anyway. How is one supposed to repeat the mantra? fast? slow? with a note on it (like singing)?
It's very hard to separate it from the breathing process
However it comes it is perfect. Anytime you are thinking " I seem to be synchronising my breathing with the mantra" or " my breathing should be separate" then notice you are off the mantra. Gently go back to resting your awareness on the mantra.
All these questions come up time and time again, we have all asked them at one time or another. At some point you will recognise that whenever any question comes up during meditation, then your awareness is on the question and not the mantra. It will become obvious the more you do it, the more the strands of thought will stand out against the background of growing stillness. |
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AumNaturel
Canada
687 Posts |
Posted - Apr 21 2012 : 12:11:05 AM
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Give it a try like karl suggested, keeping it simple, and give it time. In the meanwhile, you can always pick up where you are in the lessons, and occasionally re-read the ones on meditation.
No one is going to discourage the desire to try "different options," just keep in mind in the meanwhile the suggestion that AYP keeps to the baseline practices and self-paces, but itself does not alter to what does or does not happen beyond that.
I came to DM from silent and breath meditation, and took the cue from the lessons to be easy about the procedure, give it time to work itself out in practice, and alongside that, gently adjust it as the instructions recommend. Trying to do this or avoiding that might just be part of a clunky stage that could get worse the more you try to put into it at one time. Lesson 106 discusses mantra speed a bit, and breathing process. |
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willie
United Kingdom
36 Posts |
Posted - May 02 2012 : 12:19:30 PM
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Hi Folks
I get a bit confused about this fuzzy mantra thing too. I find it a bit of a strain to come back to a clear pronunciation of the mantra "ayam" and in lesson 13 it says that concentrating on the fuzzy version is all right:
"Do not resist if the mantra tends to become less distinct. Thinking the mantra does not have to be with clear pronunciation. I AM can be experienced at many levels in your mind and nervous system. When you come back to it, come back to a level that is comfortable, not straining for either a clear or fuzzy pronunciation."
Or have I misunderstood?
Thanks to anyone for clarification
Willie |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - May 02 2012 : 1:41:25 PM
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| That's perfect. There is no need to concentrate either, just put your awareness gently on it. |
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willie
United Kingdom
36 Posts |
Posted - May 03 2012 : 07:48:34 AM
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Thank you for your clarification.
I'm just returning to the practice after a few months break.
Thanks :)
Willie |
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Bourgo
USA
57 Posts |
Posted - May 03 2012 : 08:50:53 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by karl
That's perfect. There is no need to concentrate either, just put your awareness gently on it.
I'm confused on what is meant by "no need to concentrate."
I feel that during some sessions it is nearly impossible for my mind to "gently come back to the mantra" without concentrating. I'm not sure if there happen to be a lot of obstructions during those particular sessions, but its like my mind is flashing me with pictures or thoughts at an amazing rate and if I try to gently nudge my awareness onto the mantra is just doesn't work....I can't leave the thoughts.
It feels like trying to open a locked door that is normally open. You go to push it open as usual but it won't budge and you bash your head on the door. |
Edited by - Bourgo on May 03 2012 08:57:56 AM |
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Bourgo
USA
57 Posts |
Posted - May 03 2012 : 08:52:58 AM
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Sorry, accidentally double posted.
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Edited by - Bourgo on May 03 2012 08:58:17 AM |
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AumNaturel
Canada
687 Posts |
Posted - May 03 2012 : 3:16:44 PM
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Concentration arises from relaxation, so as such, there is no need to concentrate, as mentioned in the lessons.
When I started with breath meditation prior to AYP, I couldn't even tell if I meditated or not that session, given I would be caught up in daydreams without even knowing it. Over time, it improved. It was still meditation all along, and nothing I could have done to improve it in any way other than to keep at it. |
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Heartsoflove
USA
19 Posts |
Posted - May 14 2012 : 11:07:38 AM
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| Using I am, I focus 'I' on inhalation and 'AM' upon exhalation. Or, should one use the mantra without splitting it into two parts? Sometimes splitting it into two segments divided by the breath confuses me. |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - May 14 2012 : 11:21:50 AM
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HOL where did you get that idea from?
The Mantra is "AYAM" there is no deliberate split. There is no requirement to connect that to the breath unless it happens of it's own accord. The breath just happens. It's like the windscreen wipers of a car. You don't look at them, instead you look at the road ahead without getting distracted.
Remember that 'I am' isn't a sentence, it has no meaning, it is one sound. For instance, if the Mantra happened to be a single word such as Zoom, you wouldn't try and split it into ' zoo' an 'm'. You would just repeat zoom as a full sound and that's what we do with I am ( Ayam ). If it happens to split of its own accord then that is fine, just not deliberately.
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Heartsoflove
USA
19 Posts |
Posted - May 14 2012 : 12:51:08 PM
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| Okay, thanks Carl. I think at some time in my life I have meditated with counting in breath as 'one' and out as 'two' and its hard not to do the same here. Even using single syllable IYAM I still pay attention whether it manifests itself at the top of inhalation or at the end of exhalation. So you are saying there is absolutely no connection between the breath and the timing of the mantra. When, then, should one notice the mantra? It is either on inhalation or exhalation because the breath is divided in two parts and the mantra just HAS to fall on one of them. I'd like to get really clear on this because I think it is blocking me because at times I come away from DM restless and and a little uneasy. Thanks in advance..HOL |
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Heartsoflove
USA
19 Posts |
Posted - May 14 2012 : 1:39:44 PM
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| Carl--okay the winshield/wiper metaphor clears up this confusion;sorry did not catch that when you first posted. Thanks...HOL |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - May 14 2012 : 2:07:30 PM
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If you are coming away from meditation restless and irritable you are overloading. Make sure you get sufficient rest time after meditation. Also, it should be practiced at set times as much as possible, in the early morning and early evening.
Irritation will occur if you are pushing too hard and trying to hold onto, or lose the Mantra consciously. Trying to control things is quite natural to begin with, but it's best to give up that idea and let things happen as they will.
It's such a simple practice with very easy instructions. The tendency to try and over complicate it and make it self serving seems to be quite consistent. This is the clunky stage and is like learning to ride a bike for the first time. Once you get going it just becomes a natural thing that requires less than no analysis. |
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Dissolving Mantra
