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beetsmyth
USA
104 Posts |
 Posted - Apr 07 2012 : 4:47:24 PM
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The problem I see with this path:
There are many traps along the way, as with all paths. For example there are neo-advaitists who simply have an intellectual understanding realization of it all and thats it, they are now masters.
Or, some realize Awareness itself (as still a limited Unit of awareness) and that's it, they are now masters.
But my biggest gripe is, say you realize the Absolute, Supreme Buddha Nature, Absolute truth.... Ok, is the body transformed, can miracles now be performed? That has always been my issue with this.
Like for example a real master, if a skeptic comes up to him, like to Christ or Buddha, and asks for proof, those two can instantly perform miracles to dispel even the greatest of skeptics, and then tell us we too can reach this state...
...and yet who ever does? I dont know of anyone, do you?
I think my biggest (well the mind/ego) issue, is having come across some ancient secret taoist techniques, and they go on discussing how to transform the body after having realize the Supreme Absolute. Some of these transformations require 10-13 years of practice and so forth...
...thats just so disheartening considering in today's society where maybe 1 in a billion can hit a cave or monastery and work all this out.
Im referencing the following site:
http://www.damo-qigong.net/index.htm
Scroll down a little and you will find the 19 steps in Practical Process of Taoist Internal Alchemy Practice.
Some of them are:
STEP 14 Conceive a fetus of the true self In ten months' time (1)
or
STEP 17 Raise the foetus of true self in three years' time
or
STEP 19 Fill up the Infinite Emptiness with my brilliant psychical light in nine years
...like really? This would be a dream come true to be able to work on such things. But the point being that, with Jnana/Advaita it is said once the Absolute is reached, that's the end, that's it.
But in these Taoists texts, they are saying that reaching the Absolute is basically beginner's steps and it continues on from there into more hard-core stuff.
Whats your take? |
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cosmic
USA
821 Posts |
Posted - Apr 07 2012 : 6:37:00 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by beetsmyth
Like for example a real master, if a skeptic comes up to him, like to Christ or Buddha, and asks for proof, those two can instantly perform miracles to dispel even the greatest of skeptics, and then tell us we too can reach this state...
Christ and Buddha are myths. Not saying they never existed, or couldn't do miracles, but I think it's good to question literal vs. mythical/symbolic truth.
Love is the greatest miracle there is. I've seen it perform wondrous things.
Since you're aware of traps, don't fall into them.
Love [img]icon_heart.gif[/img] |
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axelschlotzhauer
Germany
150 Posts |
Posted - Apr 07 2012 : 7:54:52 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by beetsmyth
The problem I see with this path:
But my biggest gripe is, say you realize the Absolute, Supreme Buddha Nature, Absolute truth.... Ok, is the body transformed, can miracles now be performed? That has always been my issue with this.
Like for example a real master, if a skeptic comes up to him, like to Christ or Buddha, and asks for proof, those two can instantly perform miracles to dispel even the greatest of skeptics, and then tell us we too can reach this state...
...and yet who ever does? I dont know of anyone, do you?
I think my biggest (well the mind/ego) issue, is having come across some ancient secret taoist techniques, and they go on discussing how to transform the body after having realize the Supreme Absolute. Some of these transformations require 10-13 years of practice and so forth...
Im referencing the following site:
http://www.damo-qigong.net/index.htm
-------------------------------------------------
I have perhaps similar questions to this path. For clarifying the words I need first a quote from the quoted website that after realization of the Supreme Absolute comes the spiritual fetus.
Such supreme may be Wu wei und Taichi as the oneness of male and
female as yinyang before they appear as a mystical marriage and creation before creation.
The Kan & Li of Mantak Chia produces rather easily a spiritual fetus.But more an illusory one and yin body till it may become a real one and yang body.
So the supreme in this path may be a beginning one of lower kundalini processes not coming to tat twam asi though other Yogananda offsprings use also I am that as the level above that I am you.
Axel |
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beetsmyth
USA
104 Posts |
Posted - Apr 07 2012 : 8:51:00 PM
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I just say from direct experience, that the realization of the Oneness is definitely not the end of the Path. The physical body starts changing, channels open up, there is centers of Light within, the whole molecular structure ...and yet there is no You in the One.
My point being, even w all the Maharshi's & Nisargadatta's, and modern teachers like Mooji and Adyashanti. They are all like ...yeah just Awareness and that's it. Or once Oneness is realized, then that's it. And yeah realizing Awareness does lead to Oneness ...but thats not just it..there is soooo much more going on here and its not being talked about in Advaita/Jnana.
I cant really clarify for you wu wei/tai chi verse, as I am just now studying the deeper Taoist aspects. I just knew from realizing Oneness in glimpses (as I am not fully established in that yet) that that is not All there is ...there still is a mystical Love, and Channels opening, kundalini, Third eye open with spiritual sight, and I myself have tasted beginning stages of amrita, sleeplessness, and not having to eat for long periods of time.
I know there is a realm of miracles where we completely have mastery over the laws of nature, bilocation, and other such things. It is definitely real, and its a reason I bring this up here.
As for CHrist & Buddha being myths, its not possible for me for that to be true. I have personally tested teachings of there's myself like a spiritual scientist and found them both to be true. Such as Buddha saying (paraphrased) you are not the mind not the body, I have realized that. That there is an original state, buddha nature, have realized that (in fleeting glimpses of course). Jesus taught to Love God more than anything and to get Baptized..... did that and got indwelled by a Spiritual Holy Spirit which gave me ego death, third eye awakening and the beggining of channels opening up and kundalini movement (all by Grace).
So these characters are most definitely real as are the miracle abilities and states beyond just Oneness and No I.
It seems we get there through Wisdom, and then physical changes take place. Or work n the physical, and wisdom changes take place.
We are all heading back to the source w/ all these techniques and exercises, however for myself I thought Awareness Realized, Oneness realized (no I state) and the Soul (divine Love) realized was the end all be all pinnacle of the path.
Well now studying these Taoists texts, its like they are saying, "No these are just beginning steps," and that really sucks because I have yet to be fully established in Oneness/Soul/Awareness, and have a long way to go to studying and figuring out what exactly this Taosit stuff is pointing at. |
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maheswari
Lebanon
2516 Posts |
Posted - Apr 08 2012 : 07:03:44 AM
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hello beetsmyth
will share what i know about adavita teachers like Ramana Maharshi and Francis Lucille ..the others i am not familiar with them
Ramana and Francis Lucille acknowledge the fact that after the initial awakening there is a total realignment of the body,all the obstructions will be removed and this realignment takes years...once it is fully done,only then one will be established in sahaja samadhi...in sahaja samadhi the body-mind and the world are NOT excluded or seen apart from self-realization. ...
Ramana Maharshi after his first awakening at the age of 16, he had another awakening around the age of 32....this second awakening was the completion of a total realignment of energy in his body...only after this second awakening Ramana was in Sahaja samadhi ...and after it he started to receive students and guide, started to getting engaged in daily life and slowly his ashram was built...before this second enlightenment most of the time he was isolated most of the time in trance ....
so the end result is like Yogani says a journey from here to here.the end result is exactly like ayp ie removing the obstructions and purifying....one stays active in daily life...
but thank god ayp has a safety net which are the sitting practices that we keep on doing even if we get a spark of enlightement ...these sitting practices are the safety net to avoid falling back into no relational self enquiry (this is always a possible danger) which seems to be thought a lot these days (saying there is only Awareness and that is it end of story...ie a collection of mental acrobatics)
hope this helps a bit
with Love
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axelschlotzhauer
Germany
150 Posts |
Posted - Apr 08 2012 : 07:40:04 AM
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Nowadays the ways may be rather short for understanding new stuff if you know and understand your own framework with which you are working With opened channels and inner light within it you could know the middle channel through the body or advanced in the spine as stations ot the upgrowing spiritual fetus like the buddha in the lotus flower sitting later on the head.
Also I am, I am you or I am that or I am him as the original Indian text of Rudolf Steiner's Esoteric school is translated is a question of channels and aura building up by the 6 Nebenübungen (6 side exercises).There are instructions thinking I am in the third eye, I am you in the heart and I am him in the navel.
This denotes obviously a path from the ego or ahamkara to the recognition of the maya of your projection to and as your world which is in reality you yourself as an illusion. The third stage is the Non-I or impersonal god.
Well, may be my invention not the end of a path. Indian philosophy misunderstood Fichte´s Non-I of nature as such lose of personality in higher Asian stages of non-duality and advaita. This is more the realm of nonduality of the Islamic mysticism of Avicenna influencing Meister Eckhart and German idealism of Schelling as prerunner of Rudolf Steiner. German idealism entered American pragmatism by Emerson and William James welcoming theosophical ideas like Christian science and yoga as already Schelling did, entering by Yogananda 1892 America in Chicago.
Zen beginner´s mind may be helpful for you till realizations may come.
Axel
But this is still beginner`s mind not the end of a path. |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Apr 08 2012 : 07:42:56 AM
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I will share what I know.......nowt, nothing, zilch, zero 
Less of the jaws and more of the paws forget about where you are going because you will turn up there anyway. Best concentrate on putting one foot in front of the other. |
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AumNaturel
Canada
687 Posts |
Posted - Apr 08 2012 : 2:40:03 PM
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As far as I've been able to tell, there is no conflict between Advaita, Tantra, and Taoism / Internal Alchemy. Within each, you may have things described differently even if the insights themselves on which such descriptions are based are identical, or at least comprise a part of a whole where coherence becomes evident.
I have started my research with what falls under Taoism, have deciphered some works that were already translated into my own models on par with that level of abstraction, connected some themes, and sought after realistic practical advice. It might be helpful to know that a lot is still not translated, could possibly never be translated due to context, or even deciphered in any way that may step out of abstraction in self-contained models nested upon each other. It is also likely that real practical advice was not open for the public at that point in time, and instead passed on orally with no regard to how it manifested in writing (poetry, theory, mythology).
Scenery, siddhis, and non-relational self-inquiry are well-covered in AYP, and so is the principle of self-pacing, which also does not exclude self-inquiry. |
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Will Power
Spain
415 Posts |
Posted - Apr 09 2012 : 12:42:11 PM
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What those taoist says that after realising the Absolute there is still work to do reminds me of what the Mother (disciple of Sri Aurobindo) that said something like that she had lost many years after realising God doing nothing, but in the last few months vibrating her mantra in her body she had advanced a lot in changing the cells of her body, and supramentalising the body. For her reaching Nirvana/emptiness was easy :-) and not the goal
Ennio talks about this in his book calling it the Kriya of the Cells and adds a procedure in Spinal Breathing Pranayama to bring the Divine into the body. Also vibrating the mantra is done according to him specially in OM Japa, trying to vibrate it and "solidify the body".
I wonder if Yogani considers it to be a lesson to be learned after advancing in the path, or for him it'll be always to be avoided.
Love
Edited:I didn't mean that Vibrating the mantra is something to be done during Deep Meditation, because DM is a passive phase in which you let go. The vibration, if you do it, is for the active phase of the routine, before the passive phase |
Edited by - Will Power on Apr 10 2012 04:54:12 AM |
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beetsmyth
USA
104 Posts |
Posted - Apr 09 2012 : 4:13:32 PM
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Hey guys,
These replies are awesome!!! Thanks alot for contributing. It's all starting to make sense now, so Im glad that there was much light shed here. |
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LittleTurtle
USA
342 Posts |
Posted - Apr 10 2012 : 1:28:14 PM
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| Hey Will can you say where in Ennio's book he writes about this? I like to read it. thanks. |
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Will Power
Spain
415 Posts |
Posted - Apr 11 2012 : 12:23:55 PM
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In Ennio's book it is in (Note: I am refering to the pdf pages, not the pages on the footer):
- Inspiration from the Works of Mère and Sri Aurobindo (part I, page 42)
-The image in part 2 page 2 shows what he is refering to in page 3:
"When the awareness comes down, they are internally perceived as organs distributing energy (coming from above) into the body. Luminous rays depart from their locations, enlivening that part of the body which is in front of them."
-in part III, page 44, 45, 46, 47, 48 and 49 about mastering a particular form of Kriya Pranayama and the Kriya of the Cells
-part III, page 28 (about The Mother, the mantra and the conciousness of the cells.
-more about the mantra in Part III, from page 34 (HOW TO ACHIEVE THE BREATHLESS STATE)
For this I used the search function of pdf with "mother", "cell" and "kriya of the cells" |
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I see a problem with Jnana/Advaita...
