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lufa1212
India
45 Posts |
 Posted - Jan 25 2012 : 08:04:32 AM
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Hi everyone,
I have been with ayp for few years now...It has been a very interesting journey so far with lots of ups and downs...being in the witnessing state and also being in the non-witnessing state...being at peace with self largely and being in a vortex of emotions and physicality...all going one after the other in phases...
Dear Arjun's mail regarding the fear of death has made me bring my fear in front of all you kind persons...
A phase that I am going through these days is a fear of the death of my near and dear ones. Besides others am scared for the well being of my elderly parents...they live in a different city....since some time i am finding myself trying my best to be there for the New Year's, their birthdays to celebrate as there is a lurking fear what if they are not there next year...i understand i should not be energizing such thoughts still they keep appearing from no where...i am successful in releasing them but the heart still beats with the fear...i also understand that strength to overcome this fear has to come from within myself still don't know how to overcome these...can any one please help....
lufa |
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AumNaturel
Canada
687 Posts |
Posted - Jan 25 2012 : 10:38:49 AM
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Hi lufa, wonderful to have you here.
Your phase to me sounds like a natural unfoldment deeper into karma yoga. Fear of loss of loved ones is a hard thing to face, but next to possibly enduring their suffering, pain, or actual loss, it is an empowering way to come to terms with the present moment by growing in acceptance of what we can and cannot change. The fruits of yoga help to slowly uncover the realization of what yogani and others experience when they say "life is 100% an interpretation by us, no matter our circumstances." There are a lot of steps that it sounds like you have already been doing (visiting to be with them, concern for them) which I believe can help put the fear in perspective and therefore help dispel whatever might be driving it. Letting go of some thing or someone (even ourselves) I don't believe means their abandonment but instead a concern for their liberation. The relationship and shared experiences were and always will be there. Lesson 347 says "Even as we mourn the tragedies that inevitably will visit us in life, we know that loss and adversity can lead us to new outpourings of divine love and spiritual realization. The best way to honor the past is to fully honor the present, attending to the well-being of those who are with us today." |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Jan 25 2012 : 12:00:58 PM
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Fear of loved ones dying. How do you get over that one? Putting aside the none dual approach for just a moment.
You know it's a future event and you know that you have made a story around the future events. You don't really know if you will outlast them, or if you and your loved ones will die in a a meteor strike. Alternatively, next week we might find the secret to eternal life and spend eternity putting up with them.
You could drop down dead on the way over to visit them.......bet you would be surprised and slightly annoyed at the time you have spent worrying about them, only to find its them who are saying your Eulogy. Having lavished energy and imagination on a future scenario, all of a sudden the tables are turned.
Then there's the other part. What exactly could you do, even if you knew the date of their death? Forgetting the possible about turn of dying first, what exactly could you do?
Because if you haven't done it, then you should get busy doing it. If its already been said and done then thats that. It's like watching a train depart at the station and waving goodbye to your family, it really starts to get a bit embarrassing to hang around waiting for the train to leave after a few hours.....people start staring!
If, or when it does happen, then there will be grief, but there's little point in having a grieving period in advance. Save the sobbing until the right time, or really you just look like an actor waiting for your scene to start, except there isn't any film to act in.
Take it as it comes, because there is no other way. What happens will happen and you will cope.
It is the fear of being alone, but actually when you study it more closely it is actually being alone with fear. Being alone is alright, it's the fear that makes us suffer. We are alone anyway because we cannot live fully with the fear of our loved ones death.
Put it aside and jump in the warmth, shout " c'mon fear, if you think your tough enough, do your worst, I'm here staring right back at you. You have everything to lose and I have nothing to lose by not having you around. Let's get it on, do your worst because I have your number and I'm looking forward to what you have to show me".
I had that fear of my wife dying. One day she might. But I know it isn't her death I am facing, it's just the monster under the bed. Anytime I notice the thoughts start up I say out loud those words......or worse. The monster always takes cover, always cowers, shows its lack of strength. It can only whisper in your ear so damn well shout back at it and tell it who is boss.
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gatito
United Kingdom
179 Posts |
Posted - Jan 25 2012 : 12:25:29 PM
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quote:
so damn well shout back at it and tell it who is boss.
Spot on!!!
Dear Lufa
There are many approaches to this and I'm sure you'll get some other useful answers (and the non-dual approach can/does work    ). However, sometimes the best answer is the straightforward common-sense approach!
(And keep on meditating and self-pacing - it wll work itself out )
With Love
gatito |
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lufa1212
India
45 Posts |
Posted - Jan 26 2012 : 09:55:48 AM
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My sincere thanks Dear AumNaturel, Karl and Gatito.
AumNatural - "The fruits of yoga help to slowly uncover the realization of what yogani and others experience when they say "life is 100% an interpretation by us, no matter our circumstances."
Very true...but even a hypothetical scenario of the absence of the unselfish love and warmth of one's parents/dear one's is too hurting especially when the emotions are ruling the roost. One moment the witnessing state brings the non dualism into focus and the second moment the fear grips the heart trying to emphasize the fact that the physical presence of these special people and their love may not be there in a time to come.
Karl - "You know it's a future event and you know that you have made a story around the future events."
Absolutely right...a future event it is with not even a clue as to what will actually happen...it is the cunning mind that keeps itself busy by making these fearful stories..
- "Then there's the other part. What exactly could you do, even if you knew the date of their death? Forgetting the possible about turn of dying first, what exactly could you do?
Because if you haven't done it, then you should get busy doing it. If its already been said and done then thats that."
Yes, I get the point. No need of wasting my time and energy on such fearful thoughts...instead I do something useful...be with all my loved one's in their hours of need if possible..be of service to them with whatever I am capable of...
- "Put it aside and jump in the warmth, shout " c'mon fear, if you think your tough enough, do your worst, I'm here staring right back at you. You have everything to lose and I have nothing to lose by not having you around. Let's get it on, do your worst because I have your number and I'm looking forward to what you have to show me".
Karl, it may take me sometime to challenge the Fear this way at least in the present state of mind...may be with more meditation and in a witnessing state I would be able to..
Gatito - "There are many approaches to this and I'm sure you'll get some other useful answers (and the non-dual approach can/does work ). However, sometimes the best answer is the straightforward common-sense approach!
(And keep on meditating and self-pacing - it wll work itself out )"
Thanks, Gatito...I shall keep meditating and self pacing.... ...hope it works itself out..
Love and many thanks for your precious time and sharing
lufa
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AumNaturel
Canada
687 Posts |
Posted - Jan 26 2012 : 12:22:31 PM
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| lufa, that scenario is true, and it is said the loss will always be felt. The part about interpretation I think helps to frame things accordingly and act on this perspective, as opposed to close inwards, shut life out, or deny that which is a real possibility. The witness, the power of being able to let go of interpretations that seem inappropriate, is being able to act and do what must be done (visit them, be with them, and be with others should we witness their passing) instead of letting the fear or reaction hold us back and then hold us back some more in guilt or resentments (I could have...). |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Jan 26 2012 : 12:33:51 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by lufa1212
Karl, it may take me sometime to challenge the Fear this way at least in the present state of mind...may be with more meditation and in a witnessing state I would be able to..
You already have all the resources and skills that you need to defeat it. Fear is its own key. Through fire the Phoenix is reborn from the ashes, unless it burns it cannot be reborn. Your lack of defence is the very thing you need. The flame will not burn less bright by the act of viewing it from a great distance, or by putting barriers in place. Let it burn you.
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gatito
United Kingdom
179 Posts |
Posted - Jan 26 2012 : 7:03:17 PM
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I shall keep meditating and self pacing.... ...hope it works itself out..
Post again if it doesn't. It's a very supportive and loving community. We're all walking the same Path (even if it's different ) No need to walk alone unless you prefer it |
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maheswari
Lebanon
2516 Posts |
Posted - Jan 27 2012 : 01:28:53 AM
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Karl, it may take me sometime to challenge the Fear this way at least in the present state of mind...may be with more meditation and in a witnessing state I would be able to..
now and not later is the best time to work on your fear...when you say you need more time you will help this fear in taking hold of you,this fear will feed on you....now realize the irrationality of this fear...you may fail 100 time but in the end you will overcome it...the point is to keep on trying now and not later
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lufa1212
India
45 Posts |
Posted - Jan 27 2012 : 08:11:51 AM
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Thanks so much for all your wonderful support dear Aum Naturel, Karl, Gatito and maheshwari.
Aum Naturel - "The witness, the power of being able to let go of interpretations that seem inappropriate, is being able to act and do what must be done (visit them, be with them, and be with others should we witness their passing) instead of letting the fear or reaction hold us back and then hold us back some more in guilt or resentments (I could have...)."
Aum Naturel, that is the way...yes, just doing it from a state of witness...with more clarity, more happiness more joy...
Karl - "You already have all the resources and skills that you need to defeat it. Fear is its own key. Through fire the Phoenix is reborn from the ashes, unless it burns it cannot be reborn. Your lack of defence is the very thing you need. The flame will not burn less bright by the act of viewing it from a great distance, or by putting barriers in place. Let it burn you."
maheshwari - "now and not later is the best time to work on your fear...when you say you need more time you will help this fear in taking hold of you,this fear will feed on you....now realize the irrationality of this fear...you may fail 100 time but in the end you will overcome it...the point is to keep on trying now and not later"
Yes dear Karl and maheshwari, ripe time to understand this fear and its source...the fear gnaws the ego for the ego is selfish enough to be wanting to bask in the love and warmth of the loved one's...always...forever...thanks for your kind words and support...and for the strength that your words have given me...
Gatito - Thanks a ton...shall definitely keep posting...it has been a wonderful community..so supportive...so loving...sharing and caring...
Thanks for being there...today and always..
lufa
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gatito
United Kingdom
179 Posts |
Posted - Jan 28 2012 : 3:55:29 PM
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Challenging fear can mean welcoming and accepting it.
With Love
gatito
Edit: - i.e. Feeling what you're feeling without judgement (including trying to get rid of it by doing the process of feeling - this isn't acceptance and welcoming ) |
Edited by - gatito on Jan 28 2012 4:07:50 PM |
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lufa1212
India
45 Posts |
Posted - Jan 29 2012 : 05:46:25 AM
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Gatito - "i.e. Feeling what you're feeling without judgement (including trying to get rid of it by doing the process of feeling - this isn't acceptance and welcoming )"
Would you please elaborate on this dear Gatito...'Feeling what one is feeling without judgement' is this acceptance and welcoming..sorry but got a little confused...
thanks for your precious time
love
confused lufa
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Jan 29 2012 : 06:37:03 AM
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I think that might be a step too far Luffa. It is facing fear without anger. It is also accepting it in its fullest sense without any wish to get rid of it, neither with an acceptance of loving it. Being completely neutral. This is what I meant by allowing the fire to burn you, open acceptance.
This is quite a step if you are not already in balance. It's sometimes easier to kick out the Jams (MC5 song reference)with a measure of anger initially, then deal with the anger with meditation. At least you are coping.
Surrendering in totality can also be done by surrendering your will to God and allowing God ( or whoever you ascribe..the universal consciousness, creator, the light ), letting that divine power take the burden. It has to be done by surrendering everything and not just the parts you want sorting out.
Dealing with fear with none judgement and total acceptance is akin to drowning. It's a very fast solution if you can do it and remain in balance. Usually you get to this stage when you arête pared to do anything to get rid of the fear.
Just go easy, it isn't a race. Sometimes just getting things off your chest is as big a start as you need. |
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gatito
United Kingdom
179 Posts |
Posted - Jan 29 2012 : 12:06:45 PM
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Dear Lufa
Yes, I see that I've been far from clear here - thanks for pointing it out.
Feeling what you're feeling without judgement is indeed acceptance and welcoming. It's a gentle and sensitive exploration to see what's there. A form of loving self-inquiry. If you feel what you're feeling with the intention of getting rid of it, that is not acceptance and welcoming.
If this interests you you could look at Focusing by Gene Gendlin.
http://www.focusing.org/bios/gendlin_bio.html
Pat Carrington has also written an interesting book The Power of Letting Go, which you may find helpful.
Deep Meditation will give you the space to do this or it can be done with the help of a competent therapist face-to-face. (Finding a competent therapist is like finding a competent guru - you'd need to try out a few different ones if you want to go down this route). Loving and emotionally literate friends and family are a good option . (Psychotherapy is only about 100 years old ).
As I've said elsewhere, sometimes EFT just zaps it! However, be aware that EFT can require skilled application, as there are different layers to feelings and removing the layer of feeling to do with death is unlikely to remove all fear. The EFT manual explains this in detail so I won't go into it here. If you want a copy, PM me. Also bear in mind that there are many approaches to this and I've only touched on a couple that might help.
Give them a go if you want, feel free to ask any questions and I'll do my best to help within the constraints of the written word .
With Love
gatito |
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lufa1212
India
45 Posts |
Posted - Jan 30 2012 : 12:56:58 PM
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Dear Karl and Gatito,
Accepting the fear or for that matter any other feeling/emotion in complete neutrality i.e. with no judgement comes only with balance...and that is true and open acceptance...this is it...and Deep Meditation is the way...
Karl - "Surrendering in totality can also be done by surrendering your will to God and allowing God ( or whoever you ascribe..the universal consciousness, creator, the light ), letting that divine power take the burden. It has to be done by surrendering everything and not just the parts you want sorting out.
Dealing with fear with none judgement and total acceptance is akin to drowning. It's a very fast solution if you can do it and remain in balance. Usually you get to this stage when you arête pared to do anything to get rid of the fear."
Surrendering the ego is the simplest and the most complex thing....more balanced we are more simple it becomes...no..?
Gatito - "Feeling what you're feeling without judgement is indeed acceptance and welcoming. It's a gentle and sensitive exploration to see what's there. A form of loving self-inquiry. If you feel what you're feeling with the intention of getting rid of it, that is not acceptance and welcoming."
It is so very clear now, dear Gatito, thanx ...no confusion anymore
"As I've said elsewhere, sometimes EFT just zaps it! However, be aware that EFT can require skilled application, as there are different layers to feelings and removing the layer of feeling to do with death is unlikely to remove all fear. The EFT manual explains this in detail so I won't go into it here. If you want a copy, PM me. Also bear in mind that there are many approaches to this and I've only touched on a couple that might help."
I read about EFT in one of your other thread and would love to receive a copy if you would kindly like to share. And yes, many thanks for the link on Focussing...interesting indeed...
Thanks so much for all your valuable time and love...
Lufa |
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gatito
United Kingdom
179 Posts |
Posted - Jan 30 2012 : 1:59:13 PM
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De nada
I think you'll need to send me an email, so that I can reply with the attachment.
(If there's another way to do this I'd be grateful if you'd tell me ) |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Jan 30 2012 : 3:05:54 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by lufa1212
Surrendering the ego is the simplest and the most complex thing....more balanced we are more simple it becomes...no..?
What ever works , It's not the same for everyone. One persons balance is another persons persistent Ego. |
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Fearing Death...
