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Radharani
USA
843 Posts |
 Posted - Jan 20 2012 : 01:53:06 AM
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| This probably doesn't have much bearing on asana as practiced by AYP which, as with HOY, is preparation for sitting meditation, as opposed to acrobatic poses for their own sake. But I wrote this blog in response to a recent NY Times article "How Yoga Can Wreck Your Body." It is entitled, "How Fear Can Wreck Your Fun" - http://blog.lothlorienyoga.com/ |
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maheswari
Lebanon
2520 Posts |
Posted - Jan 20 2012 : 01:59:55 AM
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breathing air is dangerous too because of pollution...so stop your breath now ...lolll
what non sense....writting anything to fill pages...thank god we have Radharani, an excellent yoga attorney  |
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Radharani
USA
843 Posts |
Posted - Jan 20 2012 : 02:05:23 AM
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LOL! yes, as I point out in the blog, all activity is potentially dangerous and life is inherently unsafe... I don't think they are printing such stuff just to "fill pages." I believe there is an agenda behind it related to $$.
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Swan
India
256 Posts |
Posted - Jan 20 2012 : 02:19:59 AM
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... "Forgive me for being skeptical about the modern obsession with safety, which I suspect has more to do with protecting revenue than protecting the public." ...
--- excellent |
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maheswari
Lebanon
2520 Posts |
Posted - Jan 20 2012 : 03:06:41 AM
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quote:
I believe there is an agenda behind it related to $$.
thank god i live in Lebanon,,,the government does not regulate anything, all is chaotic loll
i always tell my students to listen to their bodies,and to avoid over doing if the posture does not feel right..i always tell them that asanas is a tiny minor part of yoga |
Edited by - maheswari on Jan 20 2012 03:07:30 AM |
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Victor
USA
910 Posts |
Posted - Jan 20 2012 : 03:14:00 AM
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| I belive that its all true. The article as well as your blog. I used to be an asana fanatic in the Iyengar tradition but i rarely do the poses anymore having found AYP. While strenous yoga may be good for health it is as risky as any strenous activity and the risks have definitely been overlooked in the effort to promote yoga. It really is all about awareness moment to moment and ego is the biggest risk or maybe inattention at times. I ride a motorcycle so am no spokesman for safety but riding a motorcycle does force you to pay attention to every moment of balance and awareness or you risk serious injury or death. Yoga is a slow generally safe activity but that same awareness does need to be applied if one wants to have benefits rather than harm. |
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Radharani
USA
843 Posts |
Posted - Jan 20 2012 : 03:14:50 AM
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Maheswari, bless you, you are already teaching the essence of HOY, and you would have been an ideal candidate for the peace project; too bad the "personality issues" of my unpopularity prevented that... So, in Lebanon, "the government does not regulate anything, all is chaotic" ? I would be very curious to see how that differs from the "regulated" state, in terms of how it affects peoples' daily lives. I myself have very little confidence in government regulation...
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Radharani
USA
843 Posts |
Posted - Jan 20 2012 : 03:19:43 AM
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Victor, we posted at the exact same moment. Yes, I don't deny that strenuous yoga can be risky, but as I pointed out, statistically it is much safer than golf - GOLF, for goodness sake, that my grandfather used to play!! I agree with you it's about awareness.
But, I was terrible at riding a motorcycle - I crashed my Yamaha 100 Enduro all the time despite paying attention. I seem to do much better riding something (horse) that has a brain. |
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maheswari
Lebanon
2520 Posts |
Posted - Jan 20 2012 : 03:25:53 AM
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Victor: very true ..that i why personally i dont like Iyengar nor do i like all this acrobatic westernized form of asanas....classical hatha yoga rocks 
Radharani:how is affects people's daily life...it is a long story...loll |
Edited by - maheswari on Jan 20 2012 03:26:36 AM |
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Victor
USA
910 Posts |
Posted - Jan 20 2012 : 03:31:59 AM
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| Haha, I never got very far riding horses but probably would have loved it given the opportunity, as it is all about relationship as well as balance and awareness. I was a terrible skier, so yoga didn't give me magic balance either. Maybe I am just getting older and lazier or maybe a sense of "been there, done that and now its a big fad" in relation to asana has made me fall away from it but also as my pranayama and meditation practice has deepened I find that asana as it is usually taught and practiced seems to either be unavoidably forceful or in other people so mild as to be ineffective. At this point it seems very clear to me that internal practice allows the energy to guide me all the time rather than pushing myself into extreme or difficult postures, and it is really all about deeper subtlety. At age 50 the concept of physical perfection seems like such a childs fantasy yet something much deeper IS going on with all this yoga. I see many people who have done asana for years. For the most part they seem generally healthier and more vital than average people their age but strangely they neither seem exceptionally so to me nor do they seem to possess a "spiritual aura" if their practice has just been asana. The deeper practices as they are taught here really seem like the next step in yoga (for me anyway) and my challenge now is that as a trained yoga teacher what do I teach? The answer will come... |
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AumNaturel
Canada
687 Posts |
Posted - Jan 20 2012 : 09:00:06 AM
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| That was a great reply to that article I too have come across! |
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gatito
United Kingdom
179 Posts |
Posted - Jan 20 2012 : 7:20:34 PM
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Hi Radharani
I recently saw an article about the latest fear-mongering about yoga (referring to this book, I believe) and nearly posted the link as a heads-up to the community. Strange coincidence to come across your rebuttal so soon (if you believe in coincidence  ).
It's a great blog. I'm 100% behind your take on risk and on over-regulation.
George Bernard Shaw's opinion was that all professions are conspiracies against the laity. While I think that's a bit extreme, there's more than a grain of truth in his assertion and one of the reasons that I'm so drawn to what I've found here (yoga for grown-ups  ).
I'd certainly come to you for some lessons if I wasn't several thousand miles away because I've reached the point where I've started thinking about adding asanas to the start of my practice and having dug out my ancient copy of Iyengar, I was quite shocked to see the extreme contortions again. I thought that Iyengar was considered to be "the man", so I'm relieved that you have a different take on that. Have you any alternative book recommendations that will give me a bit more detail on the asanas recommended in the AYP book?
With Love
gatito |
Edited by - gatito on Jan 20 2012 8:00:22 PM |
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Victor
USA
910 Posts |
Posted - Jan 20 2012 : 11:49:17 PM
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I actually like Iyengar a lot when it comes to asana. When his style is taught well there is an emphasis on good form, alignment, breath and especially with the restorative classes a deep rest. That said I also do believe that there is an element of self promotion in many of the details and corrections in that style. To keep students coming back for more and never feeling that they are doing it right. My criticism of Iyengar yoga would be similar to a criticism of classical ballet, that there are too many rules and details to allow the energy to flow freely. That said I would think that one would be far less likely to be injured in an Iyengar class taught well than most other styles. Light On Yoga was written over 40 years ago and there are certainly many extreme poses in the book. AT the time it was written he had also not deepened his understanding of alignment and extensive use of props.
When I studied Iyengar style my main complaint was that we never got to the extreme poses in the book. I suppose that those poses in the book were a selling point, a display of what was possible. When I started yoga at age 19 with Light On Yoga as my guide I fully believed that in 4 or 5 years I too would be doing all of those postures to their fullest extent. After giving it my best efforts over many years I discovered that not only had I failed to accomplish this but I was actually a bit ahead of the curve on ability and that half of the book was out of reach for most everyone (although frequently 12 year old girls seemed to have the most ability). Anyway, the book is what it is. Iyengar Yoga is not generally taught strictly from the book but much more to the level of the students and rarely if ever to that extreme level. Just wanted to share that here. |
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machart
USA
342 Posts |
Posted - Jan 21 2012 : 01:04:08 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Radharani
This probably doesn't have much bearing on asana as practiced by AYP which, as with HOY, is preparation for sitting meditation, as opposed to acrobatic poses for their own sake. But I wrote this blog in response to a recent NY Times article "How Yoga Can Wreck Your Body." It is entitled, "How Fear Can Wreck Your Fun" - http://blog.lothlorienyoga.com/
That is a great blog....thank you! |
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Radharani
USA
843 Posts |
Posted - Jan 21 2012 : 03:13:31 AM
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Victor, Yes, it really is about "the deeper practices" and asana is supposed to support those (by preparing the body-mind for seated meditation). Also my teacher points out, according to tradition, asana is emphasized more for younger people, and as we get older we put more time and emphasis on meditation, so it sounds like you are naturally following that tradition. And as a teacher, we share what we have learned - so you would teach the deeper practices as well as the asana, right? at least, to those students who are ready.
Re: Iyengar, interestingly my "certification" is by an Iyengar-based organization. My teacher's main objection to the Iyengar method is that it puts the precision of posture above the internal experience, as well as the breath is not emphasized. So it becomes more external rather than an inward practice. |
Edited by - Radharani on Jan 21 2012 03:24:36 AM |
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Radharani
USA
843 Posts |
Posted - Jan 21 2012 : 03:22:41 AM
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| gatito, what a nice "coincidence"! thanks for your support. and I share your appreciation for what we have here at AYP (yoga for grownups). With regard to asana, HOY says that the principles of Krishnamacharya (namely, the emphasis on the breath and meditation) can be applied to ANY asana practice, so certainly it could be applied to AYP asana as well. You can get a taste of this at: http://www.heartofyoga.com/podcasts-and-videos/, click on "Principles of Practice" parts 1 through 5. The more detailed instruction can be found in Desikachar's book, "The Heart of Yoga" available at Amazon.com. I wish we were closer so you could study with me, but I'm sure the videos and book will suffice! |
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Radharani
USA
843 Posts |
Posted - Jan 21 2012 : 03:32:00 AM
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| AumNaturel, machart, maheswari, Swan and everyone - THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR your kind comments! I can't tell you how much I appreciate your feedback, especially since my blog is rather UNpopular at HOY and sometimes I feel like I am writing only for myself (I write because the words simply must come out). I have found here at AYP a real sangha of kindred souls, people who appreciate yoga on a very deep and mature level, who are serious yogis but at the same time, able to laugh at ourselves... I LOVE YOU ALL SO MUCH!!! xoxo |
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gatito
United Kingdom
179 Posts |
Posted - Jan 21 2012 : 12:21:38 PM
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Thanks Victor and Radharani and everyone else who contributes to these resources.
Radharani: you've got a wicked and dry sense of humour - I love it. Being able to laugh at ourselves is a very useful ingredient to add to the mix! My wife laughs at me a lot - it's very helpful feedback when I'm taking myself too seriously. It's one of the greatest gifts of a close and loving frienship. It's also better to laugh at tyranny when we can't love it.
When I was first formally taught meditation, some of my friends in that "school" practised asanas and recommended Iyengar. I bought Light on Yoga mainly to try to learn full-lotus but I never even got close and probably damaged a knee by forcing it. Now older and wiser (in some areas ) I'm learning to go with the flow. As Al Stewart says "If it doesn't come naturally - leave it" . Self-pacing - another great tool and another of the foundation stones
Asanas were never a "formal" part of my path (in this life ), although, strangely, as a small child I spent a lot of time both standing on my head and doing the plough. The plough just felt good! It's weird stuff isn't it? - all this "maybe in a past life?" Just in case, I'd like to say, "Hello old friends and fellow pilgrims - it's good to have found you all again "
With Love
gatito
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maheswari
Lebanon
2520 Posts |
Posted - Jan 21 2012 : 12:42:57 PM
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"If it doesn't come naturally - leave it"
this what i tell asanas students...some of them put too much effort,struggle and "sweat" to do a posture.. if they end up doing it, i like " to break their ego" by telling them: great you did this asana but if your mind was not still i am sorry to tell you that you are only doing acrobatics and not yoga |
Edited by - maheswari on Jan 21 2012 12:45:49 PM |
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gatito
United Kingdom
179 Posts |
Posted - Jan 21 2012 : 2:01:25 PM
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i like " to break their ego" by telling them: great you did this asana but if your mind was not still i am sorry to tell you that you are only doing acrobatics and not yoga
I'm definitely not coming to your lessons |
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Radharani
USA
843 Posts |
Posted - Jan 24 2012 : 03:48:10 AM
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ooh, Maheswari, you are a harsh mistress!  |
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maheswari
Lebanon
2520 Posts |
Posted - Jan 24 2012 : 03:55:48 AM
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in case they are doing the posture with comfort...i make them hold it for 5 minutes and tell them to watch their thoughts..if they are wandering here and there then they need to bring their attention to the posture they are doing now...otherwise it is NOT yoga either |
Edited by - maheswari on Jan 24 2012 03:56:27 AM |
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Radharani
USA
843 Posts |
Posted - Jan 24 2012 : 04:13:22 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by gatito
Thanks Victor and Radharani and everyone else who contributes to these resources.
Radharani: you've got a wicked and dry sense of humour - I love it. Being able to laugh at ourselves is a very useful ingredient to add to the mix! My wife laughs at me a lot - it's very helpful feedback when I'm taking myself too seriously. It's one of the greatest gifts of a close and loving frienship. It's also better to laugh at tyranny when we can't love it.
gaitito, THANKS! I really appreciate your kind words. You said "wicked and dry" - I wonder whether part of the reason my blog is so unpopular at HOY is that perhaps many people are not seeing the "humor" because it is too dry/sarcastic and my attempt at humor is not being expressed clearly enough?? although, nobody here at AYP has had that problem. I do note a very keen sense of humor among my fellows here at AYP, one of the many things I love about you guys... |
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gatito
United Kingdom
179 Posts |
Posted - Jan 24 2012 : 6:18:53 PM
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I wonder whether part of the reason my blog is so unpopular at HOY is that perhaps many people are not seeing the "humor" because it is too dry/sarcastic and my attempt at humor is not being expressed clearly enough?? although, nobody here at AYP has had that problem. I do note a very keen sense of humor among my fellows here at AYP, one of the many things I love about you guys...
Yes...you're probably right. Most organisations don't tolerate any dissent whatsoever (and thereby exclude vital feedback mechanisms). It was the Jester (the Enlightened "Fool" in the Tarot) whose job it was to keep the King grounded and traditionally, humour was the tool used. However, in those days, the Jesters had their "get out of jail free" card. Even so, it must have been a hazardous profession with a high mortality rate!
I agree that this community is pretty unique. Here, it seems that a different opinion is not just tolerated but welcomed and respected, as are all the different personalities that are expressed. I've come across many interesting conversations in which it seems that mutual growth and understanding occured, even when people agreed to differ. In fact, this seems to be the norm here. (I imagine that good moderation also contributes )
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HathaTeacher
Sweden
382 Posts |
Posted - Jan 27 2012 : 3:12:34 PM
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Sorry I'm late to the party as usual... This reads good. Really fun. Physical activity is dangerous, and most of us have an old injury or two, or 20, from sports.
Yoga however, as opposed to gym yoga and other sports, includes initial instruction and mind training from day 1 to switch off our competitive side whenever on the mat, to calm down and look inward instead of comparing us to, looking up to, or competing with the guy on the next mat.
If there has ever been a physical activity preaching caution and moderation, it's yoga. It's not easy to see from outside if a person trains so wisely or pays just lip service to everything except asana - this is an issue especially among beginners (who are a risk group in general, unfortunately, body & mind). In that sense, quite a few teachers out there still have one foot left in the "beginner's mind" themselves, no matter how many new certifications they'll pass. |
Edited by - HathaTeacher on Jan 27 2012 3:23:45 PM |
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Radharani
USA
843 Posts |
Posted - Jan 28 2012 : 02:28:47 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by HathaTeacher
Sorry I'm late to the party as usual... This reads good. Really fun. Physical activity is dangerous, and most of us have an old injury or two, or 20, from sports.
Yoga however, as opposed to gym yoga and other sports, includes initial instruction and mind training from day 1 to switch off our competitive side whenever on the mat, to calm down and look inward instead of comparing us to, looking up to, or competing with the guy on the next mat.
If there has ever been a physical activity preaching caution and moderation, it's yoga. It's not easy to see from outside if a person trains so wisely or pays just lip service to everything except asana - this is an issue especially among beginners (who are a risk group in general, unfortunately, body & mind). In that sense, quite a few teachers out there still have one foot left in the "beginner's mind" themselves, no matter how many new certifications they'll pass.
so very true... thanks for your kind words! |
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the dangers of yoga
