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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
 Posted - Dec 15 2011 : 2:45:52 PM
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AYP has taught me many things. I have found that I have come full circle, What has been learned has effectively shed all the learnings.
I'm blank, like a freshly cleaned window, watching the processes and thoughts skidding across the glass like shadows and reflections. Some still stick, some still repeat, trying again and again to become solid. I do not resist them. They are like soldiers,robing and poking, the more I resist, the more powerful they become. Even the tiniest wisp of resistance instantly transforms them.
I know that the world can be changed, but there must be no resistance and no force applied, instead, total neutrality. Yet even in that sense of neutrality encouraging harmony with the world perceived.
I sit writing this, I quit my job and have not looked for another occupation all though these things flit through my mind about starting a business. I'm trying to learn to balance, it's like a tight rope swaying in the wind. Sometimes I get the balance perfect for moments at a time, the universe locks into perfect harmony, then my balance wanders and I think that I should be doing this thing or that thing.
Understand that this is a long way from any form of negative emotion, it's just trying to feel what is really the flow and which is my resistance to flow/force of will. It's become very subtle. Sometimes I just can't feel the flow strong enough. It feels like, despite all the work I have gone through to chisel away the rough bits, what has been left has just gone under the magnifying glass and it looks just as unpolished as it was at the beginning.
How can I just follow the flow, I am totally willing to just go with it, but it seems as if I have got the boat on the water, the sails are up and I'm clumsily catching the odd gust of wind . My gut feeling is that physically I need to learn or do something which is both flow and balance in order to help me allow the wind to become the master which I can follow naturally, without effort.
Anyone know what will help start the polishing?
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maheswari
Lebanon
2516 Posts |
Posted - Dec 15 2011 : 3:14:08 PM
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quote:
My gut feeling is that physically I need to learn or do something which is both flow and balance in order to help me allow the wind to become the master which I can follow naturally, without effort.
asanas ....traditional hatha yoga 3 sessions per week, 90 minutes each session |
Edited by - maheswari on Dec 15 2011 3:14:29 PM |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Dec 15 2011 : 4:59:56 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by maheswari
quote:
My gut feeling is that physically I need to learn or do something which is both flow and balance in order to help me allow the wind to become the master which I can follow naturally, without effort.
asanas....traditional hatha yoga 3 sessions per week, 90 minutes each session
 that is funny. One of the things I was looking at doing was to become a Yoga teacher. One of the requirements was a 90minute session of Asanas. At present I'm not sure if I can afford to do 3 sessions, though I don't know the cost. I now do 20 minutes of Asanas every morning. I also wondered if tai chi might work? |
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jeff
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - Dec 15 2011 : 5:40:32 PM
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Hi Karl,
I think Maheswari posted some good advice earlier today...
The stillness in stillness is not the real stillness; only when there is stillness in movement does the universal rhythm manifest.”
¯ Bruce Lee
There is no real separation from the flow... Live life and enjoy.
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Dec 15 2011 : 6:23:55 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by jeff
Hi Karl,
I think Maheswari posted some good advice earlier today...
The stillness in stillness is not the real stillness; only when there is stillness in movement does the universal rhythm manifest.”
¯ Bruce Lee
There is no real separation from the flow... Live life and enjoy.
Yes I understand that, I can't always tell if I'm trying to bend to my will, or resisting the flow.
it should be simple because I do it all the time during DM and sometimes I can feel the flow, then there is stillness with action. The universe aligns, I have always had a few hints, but these are far more prominent, much bigger and faster shifts. Then I lose my balance, get distracted and find the alignment shatters and returns to a more turbulent perception. Then there is action outside of stillness.
The flow is always but my thoughts break up the current. I know that I must neither grasp its energy, or seek to swim against it. It's very tricky. Watching my thoughts, while feeling the flow. Try too hard to feel it and then forget to watch the thoughts, watch the thoughts and lose the flow. Get too wrapped up in the flow and lose the thoughts. It should be as natural as riding a bike......although I did fall off a lot
Where is Yoda when I need him.
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Divineis
Canada
420 Posts |
Posted - Dec 15 2011 : 6:51:11 PM
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| Do or do not, there is no try. hmrphh :-P |
Edited by - Divineis on Dec 15 2011 6:54:11 PM |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Dec 15 2011 : 7:46:08 PM
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| If you can find volunteer work that is close to your chosen profession it can help guide you in the right direction. |
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jeff
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - Dec 15 2011 : 7:51:47 PM
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Hi Karl,
Using your analogy... Meditation is the bay where you build the ship (quiet waters). Out on the open seas you still run into storms. Whenever the storms get too rough, just remember the harbor and deal with (not avoid) the issues/attachments as they come up. More and more the sea feels like the harbor.
But, don't let anyone kid you, there is always another storm out there. That is the fun (and challenge) of life.
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maheswari
Lebanon
2516 Posts |
Posted - Dec 16 2011 : 02:10:14 AM
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| do one paid session....in addtiton to your daily 20 minutes |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Dec 16 2011 : 04:19:49 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Etherfish
If you can find volunteer work that is close to your chosen profession it can help guide you in the right direction.
I want to shout really loudly HOW? Sorry, it's just the frustration of keeping balance and then getting a left field answer
I don't have a chosen profession, I threw all that in a blender and turned it into fragmented memories. I live moment to moment. No future or past. It seems like a material answer, although maybe I am missing the point. Could you expand as it might remove my current near sighted ness. |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Dec 16 2011 : 04:24:25 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Divineis
Do or do not, there is no try. hmrphh :-P
You know that's a very frustrating answer. I could only expect Yoda to say that. It's frustrating because it's true. The point of balance is easy, just stop trying and balance.
Damn, fallen off again. |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Dec 16 2011 : 04:33:28 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by jeff
Hi Karl,
Using your analogy... Meditation is the bay where you build the ship (quiet waters). Out on the open seas you still run into storms. Whenever the storms get too rough, just remember the harbor and deal with (not avoid) the issues/attachments as they come up. More and more the sea feels like the harbor.
But, don't let anyone kid you, there is always another storm out there. That is the fun (and challenge) of life.
It's a calming answer, thanks. It contains enough truths, but like Eric Morcambe said. "it's the right tune, it's just the notes are not necessarily in the right order"
Both storm and calm derive from the same source now. I cannot seek shelter because I am the creator of both storm and calm, sea and harbour. They can be unified I just keep failing to realise they can. I am then subject to the effect while also being the cause.
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jeff
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - Dec 16 2011 : 07:53:13 AM
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Hi Karl,
It is your metaphor and your story. As you said, you perceive you are both subject and object. But is there really anything to integrate?
If you look for the flow, you are not the flow. Reread the quote above...
Live life... Be the flow...
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Dec 16 2011 : 08:26:49 AM
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Hi Karl,
Not sure if this will help. In your first post... there are at least 3 thing I could talk about that I have experienced.
But I am going to pick one that I think will help. If it is not the answer... just ignore it.
I have come to see, that "thy will" happens (the flow)... but in order for "thy will" to flow in a way we can use it (create, learn), a desire from "my will" has to come into the picture.
Growing up, my dad always said "its all Ma's (thy) will, nothing is in our hands". This is a very true statement... the "my will" that is controlled by the ego cannot really get much done. It is concrete and too defined. But the place you are at now, you know surrender and you know how to go with the flow. "Thy will" just flows. In order to create, a very slight "my will" is needed (samyama). It is just a very slight intention without any definition. The more undefined it is, the more creative it is.
So, what I do these days when there is even a slight discomfort or not knowing what to do... I bring up the feeling and ask "show me" and let it go... this is the "my will" part, this gives direction and allows "thy will" to manifest and create. There are times I go through hell and back due to this, and I am OK with it becasue I want to see anything that is holding me back and not allowing the (divine) flow to happen.
The trick is to not define "my will". This can happen when some amount of "inner knowing" and "surrender" has happened. I have also seen, at times I want to create from my mind... at these points "show me" does not work, becasue I have unknowingly created a wall around it... the more bricks (conditional desires) in the wall, the more solid (defined) the "my will" is, the less chance "thy will" has to flow.
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Dec 16 2011 : 08:33:21 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by jeff
Hi Karl,
It is your metaphor and your story. As you said, you perceive you are both subject and object. But is there really anything to integrate?
If you look for the flow, you are not the flow. Reread the quote above...
Live life... Be the flow...
Yes by Jove, there is
There was a time I thought there wasn't , in fact there have been many times when I was at peace, bliss and all that great stuff. I bounced off the wall of my own illusion and shattered it. You can only do that once.
I'm not looking for the flow, I know it, feel it, am it, just keep falling off and on it every hour or so clunky, very definitely. I think it's what Yogani refers to divine energy I just did not recognise it from the description.
I understand the quotation well enough. When going with the flow, there is no movement. I can detect when I'm not because there is movement without stillness.
Your description of the harbour is the same thing I was using a few months ago, instead of the stillness in meditation I used the point before awareness. It seemed perfect, a blank background in which to observe movement but it was really outside me. That is why it shattered, it could not remain separate and eventually imploded. Very liberating to see my own masterwork which took incredible quantities of hard work and patience just blasted away, damned funny too Iaughed a lot as it just collapsed like a soggy biscuit.
All that stuff has gone, all the clever intellectual constructs just got fried and good riddance because I can finally see the Sun. I just can't look at it without the thought coming up that it's beautiful......and then I fall off the tightrope I didn't realise I was on. It's like that final step that doesn't exist on a staircase, bang I get woken right up..
Presume that's why Yoga is depicted as a wheel and not a ladder. It can roll when all the okes are strong, otherwise it just collapses under its own weight.
If I could go with the flow all the time I wouldn't need to ask. Oh it's so close now that I can't help grabbing, the mind keeps trying to help like a love sick puppy and pulls me off my feet.
Thanks.
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Dec 16 2011 : 08:44:47 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Shanti
Hi Karl,
Not sure if this will help. In your first post... there are at least 3 thing I could talk about that I have experienced.
But I am going to pick one that I think will help. If it is not the answer... just ignore it.
I have come to see, that "thy will" happens (the flow)... but in order for "thy will" to flow in a way we can use it (create, learn), a desire from "my will" has to come into the picture.
Growing up, my dad always said "its all Ma's (thy) will, nothing is in our hands". This is a very true statement... the "my will" that is controlled by the ego cannot really get much done. It is concrete and too defined. But the place you are at now, you know surrender and you know how to go with the flow. "Thy will" just flows. In order to create, a very slight "my will" is needed (samyama). It is just a very slight intention without any definition. The more undefined it is, the more creative it is.
So, what I do these days when there is even a slight discomfort or not knowing what to do... I bring up the feeling and ask "show me" and let it go... this is the "my will" part, this gives direction and allows "thy will" to manifest and create. There are times I go through hell and back due to this, and I am OK with it becasue I want to see anything that is holding me back and not allowing the (divine) flow to happen.
The trick is to not define "my will". This can happen when some amount of "inner knowing" and "surrender" has happened. I have also seen, at times I want to create from my mind... at these points "show me" does not work, becasue I have unknowingly created a wall around it... the more bricks (conditional desires) in the wall, the more solid (defined) the "my will" is, the less chance "thy will" has to flow.
That's it, you hit the nail right on the head. It just keeps grabbing and sending things out of control. I have never experienced anything like this. I go into warp drive and then stop dead. It is exactly that creation from the mind that you talk of, it sort of leaps out shouting 'I can do that, let me' and I'm dragging at the lead shouting get back here you have just frightened all the lambs away.
How do I stop it doing that. I know it wants to help, I'm in love with the damned thing, but it just wants to please and messes everything up. Between you and me I don't think it's been properly house trained. |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Dec 16 2011 : 08:50:31 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by karl
How do I stop it doing that. I know it wants to help, I'm in love with the damned thing, but it just wants to please and messes everything up. Between you and me I don't think it's been properly house trained.
"show me" |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Dec 16 2011 : 09:00:10 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Shanti
quote:
Originally posted by karl
How do I stop it doing that. I know it wants to help, I'm in love with the damned thing, but it just wants to please and messes everything up. Between you and me I don't think it's been properly house trained.
"show me"
Recapping, within Samyama just use 'show me' in an indistinct way?
I have to say Samyama is an extremely powerful tool. It's because I have restated using it in the last few weeks that these inner changes have been gathering speed. I'm like a champagne bottle that's been shook for a week. Something's got to go, I'm pushing at the cork like a maniac, it's funny to observe as I'm usually far more chilled and sensible |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Dec 16 2011 : 09:29:21 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by karl
Recapping, within Samyama just use 'show me' in an indistinct way?
Yes. Bring up the slight feeling of discomfort without defining it or labeling it and drop it with the words "show me". Depending on how defined the feeling is, it will take a bit of time. With every "show me" you will see another brick (desire) in the wall that is holding the flow, and when we let it go, the "thy will" becomes a bit more fluid and we see more. It is not one to one ... it is exponential.
quote:
Originally posted by karl
I have to say Samyama is an extremely powerful tool. It's because I have restated using it in the last few weeks that these inner changes have been gathering speed. I'm like a champagne bottle that's been shook for a week. Something's got to go, I'm pushing at the cork like a maniac, it's funny to observe as I'm usually far more chilled and sensible
Yes... I lived in a bubble for 7 months... nothing touched me. I needed that bubble to heal... so I did not react every time a string (the mom string and friend string and partner string and daughter string and ...) was pulled... In the bubble all the strings were cut off and I could get rooted in stillness. Once that process was done with... I was shown things that needed to be looked into... that is when I stepped out of the bubble (like you are) and now all I wanted was to become a conduit through with the divine could flow... in order to do so, I had to become "human" again... feel again... That is when I started with "show me"... I was shown the "I sense", childhood traumas that kept me from feeling a human connection, ideas about myself that kept me from being the flow... I am still being shown things every day. It is a process... and nothing is ever wasted.
One more thing that may help with this one statement of yours quote:
Something's got to go, I'm pushing at the cork like a maniac, it's funny to observe as I'm usually far more chilled and sensible
http://the-journey-inward.blogspot....ep-back.html
Step Back
You are in a room ... filled with pleasure, pain, conditioning, evaluation, understanding, solutions, techniques, love, knowledge, noise, silence, highs, lows, giving, taking.
You know all there is to know, you see all there is to see, there is expansion happening ... you are increasing your capacity and moving to the edge of the room... you hit the wall, you are feeling suffocated... the answers are all there... out there, one of those will work, one of those will open the lock... give the click... break this cycle... you are being pushed against the wall... nothing helping... no more room... you need a solution quick before you are squeezed out... help.. can't breathe... can't...
then ...
plop...
you did not know this wall was not solid...
you stepped one step back instead of pushing forward any more...
one step back...
plop
you fall into this huge empty space...
total silence...
total stillness...
the wall...
the wall is not a wall... it's a two way mirror...
now you see all of it...
the pleasure, pain, conditioning, evaluation, understanding, solutions, techniques, love, knowledge, noise, silence, highs, lows, giving, taking...
It is all happening in the silence... you can see it... all of it... the solution... it does not matter...
you have hands that can go through the mirror... pick what you want... bring it back to the stillness and it dissolves... it is gone... now pick the next...
Just one step back is this room...
one step back can take you into total stillness...
move till you can move no more...
search till you can search no more...
look till you can look no more...
fight till you can fight no more...
then take one more step... back...
you are there...
everyone has this room...
however all of us stay in the crowded room looking for a solution...
trying to push forward...
struggling to reach a goal...
stop...
now step back...
The solution is just one step back in the stillness... |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Dec 16 2011 : 10:02:31 AM
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Hi Karl
Lots of great advice here for sure. One thing that struck me though (that doesn't seem to have been directly touched on) was this:
You said; "The flow is always but my thoughts break up the current. I know that I must neither grasp its energy, or seek to swim against it. It's very tricky. Watching my thoughts, while feeling the flow. Try too hard to feel it and then forget to watch the thoughts, watch the thoughts and lose the flow."
From the way I see things, there is no need to "feel the flow." Investigating into this need to "feel the flow" may help to alleviate some of the turbulence in my opinion. Just a thought.
Love!
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Dec 16 2011 : 10:20:03 AM
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Thanks Shanti. I know what you mean by the step back, I can feel it even if it seems impossible to turn the ship around. I think you have to have stepped back before you know you can step back if that makes sense.
The rest of your story is very similar. I can't pick any particular traumas, all I knew is that I needed time away from things. The bubble thing, perfect, bliss, chilling, no pressure and weirdly it's six months since that time.
Back to humanity, oh yes that's it exactly. I read somewhere that Bruce Lee said " first clouds and mountains are just clouds and mountains, then they become something else, then finally they become clouds and mountains again" that's where I am at.
I can sense fantastic things, like lava in a volcano, a gathering storm. I'm getting why there is such a close connection to Tantra now. It made no sense before this. It's the start of a spiritual orgasm and it's going well beyond anything I could ever have believed possible. Proper cosmic, world shaking stuff. Let the rivers flow.
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maheswari
Lebanon
2516 Posts |
Posted - Dec 16 2011 : 2:31:00 PM
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wonderful thread ...very grateful to you all...
Bruce Lee quote is beautiful made me remember this one from Ramana Maharshi:
"The aspirant starts with the definition, that which is real exists always. Then he eliminates the world as unreal because it is changing. The seeker ultimately reaches the Self and there finds unity as the prevailing note. Then, that which was originally rejected as being unreal is found to be a part of the unity. Being absorbed in the reality, the world also is real. There is only being in Self-realisation, and nothing but being" |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Dec 16 2011 : 2:52:12 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by maheswari
wonderful thread ...very grateful to you all...
Bruce Lee quote is beautiful made me remember this one from Ramana Maharshi:
"The aspirant starts with the definition, that which is real exists always. Then he eliminates the world as unreal because it is changing. The seeker ultimately reaches the Self and there finds unity as the prevailing note. Then, that which was originally rejected as being unreal is found to be a part of the unity. Being absorbed in the reality, the world also is real. There is only being in Self-realisation, and nothing but being"
Yes its the same thing. I have read quite a bit of Marhashi and did not come across that one. It's a proper milestone.
I got the bit about dipping into the flow causing turbulence. Yes that's also true, I'm trying to without actually touching it, or in sense trying to which increases the turbulence.
I noticed today when I did he Asana Tree posture. Instead of trying to balance by counter acting my natural movement to keep balance. Instead I let the movement and energy become the same and it was far less difficult than it has been. Just letting the body go naturally without effort, it was like being a blade of grass gently dancing in the wind. Very Zen |
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chas
USA
209 Posts |
Posted - Dec 17 2011 : 1:33:08 PM
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quote:
Step Back
Thanks Shanti |
Edited by - chas on Dec 17 2011 1:52:59 PM |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
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jeff
USA
971 Posts |
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Help me see the flow and Harmony
