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brother neil
USA
752 Posts |
 Posted - Dec 11 2011 : 10:51:38 PM
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| This question has been on my mind for a time, however it had not formed till today. Some people say that we are co creators, some say that we are witnesses, are these contradictory or what is the correlation? |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Dec 12 2011 : 04:46:13 AM
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You mean co creators as in creating our own personal world ?
We can witness as well as living in that world without any contradiction because that is how we experience it.
When the witness begins to develop then this can seem strange but still workable, just takes some adjusting in learning to balance both perceptions. That is a half way house, it is convenient to have both operating at the same time until full development occurs and the witness and witnessed combine in unity. The witnessing is then direct without any duality.
How does co creation sit with this? Well, both arise together, there is no separation, so no contradiction. The correlation is that they arise from the same 'I' thought.
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Dec 12 2011 : 10:12:18 AM
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Hey BrotherNeil, great to see you around here again 
I've often wondered about the same thing and I don't know that I have any answers. Regardless, I'd like to chat about it. 
Recently there has been a "deepening" of the witnessing perspective here and this has brought some interesting contradictions or paradoxes to the surface. There has been a real shifting into seeing all thoughts/feelings/sensations/habits/etc as separate from "me"... there appears to be "a space" that is between "me" and "my thoughts." With this increase in distance between me and my thoughts there seems to be an increase in the ability to *choose* whether or not to be/stay "invested" in whatever is arising out of the space. I can either stay "latched on" to a particular thought, or, I can let it go.... there is an ability to choose. This, as I see it, would be the "co-creator" part.
At the same time however, everything that is arising out of "the space" is seen as "not mine" or "not me." It's like there is an infinite stream of thoughts/feelings/desires etc etc "out there" and that none of them have anything to do with "me." This would be "the witness" part as I am not choosing what is arising.
So, from my perspective in this moment right now it seems that it is both "co-creator" as well as "witness" depending on how we choose to view things in the moment. If we keep "the gaze" relaxed, we are in the witness perspective and everything is just happening... arising and dissolving simultaneously. If we allow "the gaze" to become focused on what is arising we have the opportunity to make conscious decisions about how to react and this is the "co-creator" aspect as we are actively involved in the way Life is experienced.
So, to me, it doesn't seem like these are mutually exclusive but more that we are both, depending on the moment. It seems (to me at least) that at some point we come to a place where we get to choose our perspective (either witness or co-creator). This I guess would be co-creator as we are choosing how we experience Life (even when we are choosing to simply witness things). I assume (I don't know because I'm not "there") that eventually the need to choose falls away naturally and we just become "the experiencer" and stop actively choosing anything. But that is just speculation.
Anyway, you might enjoy reading Yogani's lesson on the evolutionary stages of mind: http://www.aypsite.org/327.html ..... what I am describing above (the increased ability to choose whether or not to be invested in something or to keep the gaze relaxed) seems to be the "discrimination" stage. The dropping away of the need to choose seems to be the "dispassion" stage.
Great to see you around here again... hope all is well for you.
Love!
Carson  |
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naplesward
USA
17 Posts |
Posted - Dec 12 2011 : 10:29:16 AM
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| The Gita says the purusha is the witness, upholder, giver of the sanction, knower, lord, and enjoyer. So witness is just one poise and power of the pure consciousness. As giver of the sanction or the lord it can be seen as a co-creator. |
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jeff
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - Dec 12 2011 : 12:51:36 PM
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I would agree with Carson. Depending on your perspective, we are both...
The divine flows through us...
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maheswari
Lebanon
2520 Posts |
Posted - Dec 12 2011 : 1:01:41 PM
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quote:
If we keep "the gaze" relaxed, we are in the witness perspective and everything is just happening... arising and dissolving simultaneously. If we allow "the gaze" to become focused on what is arising we have the opportunity to make conscious decisions about how to react and this is the "co-creator" aspect as we are actively involved in the way Life is experienc
the " gaze"...nice way of expressing it...thx |
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co creators, witness
