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boris
Norway
68 Posts |
 Posted - Nov 11 2011 : 6:44:35 PM
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When I did breath meditation before,I remember my breath was extremly deep and long.At the same time the attention traveled automatically up on the in breath and down on the outbreath.It was like a kind of spinal breathing.It felt good and it was also opening up the nervous system.my breath meditation was to keep attention at the breath process(not trying to feel the air in and out of the body) and at the same time relaxing the mind as much as possible(that cause deeper breathing ime.
just cueious if anybody else notice that attention moves up and down?
I dont think it will if you focus on the nostrils,but if the attention is on the whole breath process and not locked at some point(dan tien ,nostrils ...) it automatically follow up and down in the middle of the body I belive.Any thoughts? Christi,Sparkle maybe since you have lots of experience on this,or anybody else of course :)
I was thinking,maybe it was the prana or chi that moved up and down on in and out breath and that got my attention.Anyway the results the same pleasant and opening of the nervous system :) |
Edited by - boris on Nov 11 2011 8:32:56 PM |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4430 Posts |
Posted - Nov 12 2011 : 12:58:25 AM
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Hi Boris,
Yes, the prana in the body flows up with the inbreath and out with the outbreath, so that is what you were noticing. Actually it is this flow of prana which causes us to breathe in and out as breathing is an automated response. There's one for the scientists.   |
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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - Nov 12 2011 : 07:54:21 AM
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Hi Boris and Christi
This is a curious one for me too.
When one considers that that the actual movement of air from nostral to lungs and back again is in the opposite direction to what you describe.
That is the air is travelling down whilst the prana is travelling up.
This actually leads to a lot of confusion for people starting off in mindfulness meditation these days because if one is asked to follow the breath most people will follow the direction of the actual air as it moves in and out of the body. This then is extended further down the body by bringing the attention to breath in relation to moving up and down the body. One ends up then in a situation where the breath and the prana are being directed with the prana moving down on the inbreath and up an the outbreath.
So there are a lot of people out there who are practicing the opposite way to which you describe.
Any comments about what effect this might have would be welcome
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Christi
United Kingdom
4430 Posts |
Posted - Nov 12 2011 : 4:49:33 PM
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Hi Sparkle,
Personally I've never found this to be a problem with breathing meditation.
The way I was taught the practice, awareness is simply brought to the breath, either at the nostrils, or at the lungs, or the whole movement. But it was not taught to me as a flowing the attention with the air practice as we do with Spinal Breathing Pranayama.
Even if you were to move the attention with the flow of air, I wouldn't expect this to be a problem.
With the in-breath the air fills the lungs and with the out-breath the lungs become empty. The prana (subtle energy) actually moves slightly ahead of the physical breath, rising from the root chakra, up the spine to the crown with the in-breath, and flowing from the crown down the front of the body with the out-breath, beginning a second or two before the out-breath. The belly rises as the prana rises (or slightly after), and falls as the prana falls. So there are a lot of flows going on in different directions, but nothing that I have experienced to bring about a conflict. It all works together, rather beautifully.
Christi |
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boris
Norway
68 Posts |
Posted - Nov 13 2011 : 12:36:30 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Sparkle
Hi Boris and Christi
This is a curious one for me too.
When one considers that that the actual movement of air from nostral to lungs and back again is in the opposite direction to what you describe.
That is the air is travelling down whilst the prana is travelling up.
This actually leads to a lot of confusion for people starting off in mindfulness meditation these days because if one is asked to follow the breath most people will follow the direction of the actual air as it moves in and out of the body. This then is extended further down the body by bringing the attention to breath in relation to moving up and down the body. One ends up then in a situation where the breath and the prana are being directed with the prana moving down on the inbreath and up an the outbreath.
So there are a lot of people out there who are practicing the opposite way to which you describe.
Any comments about what effect this might have would be welcome
Hello Sparkle
Prana coming up on the in breath is not something I practice it happens naturally for me as long as I dont direct or try to control
anything.I you follow the breath with feeling,I belive you disturb this natural prosess.
I have read many diffrent breath meditation instructions.From hard concentration to effortless with no concentration.I prefer using the same method as with mantra.No concentration and just effortless come back to the breath when you understand you are off.I have also tried to feel the breath coming in and out of the body but for me this required concentration,and i was never able to go deep with this method.I also belive concentration disturb this natural flow of prana up and down on in and out breath.but I am not an expert,just my thoughts :)
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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - Nov 13 2011 : 09:13:42 AM
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Hi Christi
The medhod I am talking about is used in the Body Scan adopted by the mindfulness movement associated with Jon Kabat Zinn and others and as you probably know this has become quite popular.
It is a source of confusion for many people, mainly those who are used to following the breath up and down the spine as in Spinal Breathing or Pranayama in general.
When I am directing the body scan for people I don't specify a direction in relation to the breath any more and just allow each person to find their own way. Some go one way and others the opposite.
From my own perspective having tried both I don't see a problem with either way, but I don't have your sensitivity to energies so I was interested to hear what your perspective was and thanks for offering that.
Hi Boris
There is nothing wrong with concentration in meditation. However the word concentration can sometimes be mis-understood as something intense and hard, it can just as easily be soft and gentle. the important thing is that the mind is concentrated on one thing or one area whether large or small.
Coming back to the mantra when we realise we are off it could be described as effort, there is and has to be an effort involved otherwise it would not happen, the trick is not to get hung up about it and not beat yourself up about it, just accept that you were off somewhere else and gently come back - but there is effort in that, no matter how gentle.
That's just my take on it. |
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Vayu
USA
40 Posts |
Posted - Nov 13 2011 : 10:24:11 PM
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| Hi Christi, do the prana and apana impulses (which initiate the inhale and exhale) have a specific pathway, like the sushumna nadi? Today, I was trying external kumbhaka and noticed a kind of an impulse(occuring with 1-2 second gap each time, which caused my abdominals to quickly expand like a pulse in order to breathe in) starting nearby the root region going upward, in a very frail/thin nerve. Im not sure if this is supposed to be the prana vayu you spoke about. Im also not sure if the path it took is supposed to be the actual sushumna nadi. It was a little farther to the front of the path that I normally trace in SBP. So, I continued the technique in a safe way and found that this thin channel does have a connection all the way to the ajna area in a very faint way. But the farther I traced it away from the root, the nerve became fainter. So, my question is: is this the favored path that should be taken for SBP? |
Edited by - Vayu on Nov 13 2011 11:01:18 PM |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4430 Posts |
Posted - Nov 14 2011 : 2:26:31 PM
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Hi Vayu,
Here is the description from lesson 41 on Spinal Breathing Pranayama:
"Next, with each rising inhalation of the breath, allow your attention to travel upward inside a tiny thread, or tube, you visualize beginning at your perineum, continuing up through the center of your spine, and up through the stem of your brain to the center of your head. "
So it is quite clear that the visualized route is up through the centre of the spine.
Having said that, once you begin to see, or feel the prana moving in that region, then your attention will be naturally drawn towards the energy movements that you see/ feel. If that is happening then that is fine. With time (and purification) the sushumna channel changes and expands and is felt as much in the centre of the body as it is in the spine.
Christi |
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question about breath meditation or anapanasati
