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Ananda
3115 Posts |
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maheswari
Lebanon
2520 Posts |
 Posted - Nov 01 2011 : 5:12:38 PM
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thank you Ananda....very very nice
namaste |
Edited by - maheswari on Nov 01 2011 5:14:56 PM |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Nov 01 2011 : 11:54:17 PM
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It's beautiful eh |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Nov 02 2011 : 06:38:46 AM
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Why do you think its powerful?
How does it help?
Is it just another thought?
When searching for the source of a river, you might find the beginning of the stream but the source is everywhere and in everything, even in the one who searches.
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Nov 02 2011 : 07:49:28 AM
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He's good, and they say one part of the "most direct path" to realization is deep meditation which is good.
But they are also saying the path includes the "study of truth" and the association with the guru. This is liable to lead a lot of people astray, looking for just the right guru, and non-relational study of truth. There are a lot of political websites on both sides of the spectrum who talk in depth about "the truth", and most churches also. You could spend most of your life following any or all of these people without making much spiritual progress as a result. He seems to be more advaitan than anything, so thank God he is at least promoting meditation.
PS I don't mean to bash this guy because his messages can be very good for people who already have some degree of realization, I just have an issue with leading newbies to all this mental activity which will likely waste a lot of their time. |
Edited by - Etherfish on Nov 02 2011 07:54:49 AM |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Nov 02 2011 : 1:32:36 PM
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Dear Ether and Karl,
I've been interacting with an old student of Francis for quite some time now and have interacted with him also directly over the internet. To be honest I've never spoken or listened to someone as Francis who cuts directly through all the crap and non sense. Don't want to seem impolite towards any of you, you are dear friends of mine and I respect your opinions but right now I find both your posts confusing and do not see anything of the simplicity which was present in the video.
Francis is also aware of terms similar to relational and non relational self inquiry and most of the spiritual scene out there yet he just doesn't care. He believes there is a shortcut between all that and it's called the direct path and it's a long tested path with many enlightened guys beginning with Sri Shankara and his teachers before him. Francis does not belong to any tradition but never the less he is Dr. Jean Klein's student and the latter have been involved with Sri Atmananda Krishna Menon and Pandiji his main guru and both of these two belong to the Shankara tradition.
In the end to each his own way and in my case the direct path along with AYP is where I find myself at home. And I don't think or need to find any contradiction between the two. I am doing what I must and all I can to realize Truth/God/Mercy. When enlightenment or whatever it is that may happen... Happens... Great.
I was once discussing about the contradictions between both the direct and indirect paths with Francis and he replied to me: Who cares!
He didn't mean it as an inquiry so that I may ask myself whom is it that cares.. He meant just go with whatever works.
This is the direct path in which Francis is involved in and he's a very pragmatic teacher and once of the best ones out there. I am involved in almost everything but have started much long before AYP with this path but without a guru and still I don't have one whom I am in direct physical contact with. If you have something to discuss against or with Francis just go to one of his meetings online or in person: http://www.meetup.com/Advaita/
I hope to attend one of his retreats in person one day if Grace provides me with the money to do so.
Love,
Ananda |
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bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - Nov 02 2011 : 2:34:15 PM
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| Thanks for sharing with us about your enlightenment guy |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Nov 02 2011 : 2:57:37 PM
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Nov 02 2011 : 6:46:17 PM
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Thanks Ananda,
I agree I don't speak with the simplicity of Francis. Sounds like you are saying his method is quite similar to AYP. i don't mean to say he is wrong or contradicting AYP; just sounds wayward for people with no inner silence to begin with. So people like you and the other enlightened ones could gain a lot from him.
But have you seen people with no silence or experience at all progress well with his method? Personally I have tried lots of things before AYP without much result, then noticed a big difference. I don't think I had much silence, although I could stop my thoughts, after AYP the silence was quite different than just stopping thoughts.
I identify with his "who cares" attitude though. I'm not too attached to much of anything, and am always starting new things, then dropping them later, not sure if that's good but that's me.
What kind of meditation does he recommend, and how long and how often?
If his students adopt his "who cares" attitude, don't they lack bhakti, and easily just drop the whole thing, go away and do something else?
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maheswari
Lebanon
2520 Posts |
Posted - Nov 03 2011 : 02:59:32 AM
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quote:
But have you seen people with no silence or experience at all progress well with his method
I like Francis and Jean Klein a lot...but one has to admit that if the student has not acquired yet some sort of inner silence, the direct path of enquiry will be of no use...it might even lead to "all is futile" attitude...luckly in my journey i started with bhakti,inner silence then started to get intrested in jnana yoga...
today i follow a blend of bhakti,ayp practices and jnana
quote:
If his students adopt his "who cares" attitude, don't they lack bhakti, and easily just drop the whole thing, go away and do something else?
usually the students are ripe souls,seeking is bhakti,dont you think Etherfish?...bhakti and jnana feed and balance each other....
from my interaction with a lebanese student of Francis (same one reffered to by Ananda),i felt genuine and constant interest,beaming Love and deep stilness...and he is an ordinary man leading an ordinary life,he works, ,makes a living ,is married and have kids |
Edited by - maheswari on Nov 03 2011 03:01:16 AM |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Nov 03 2011 : 03:38:13 AM
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quote:
But have you seen people with no silence or experience at all progress well with his method? Personally I have tried lots of things before AYP without much result, then noticed a big difference. I don't think I had much silence, although I could stop my thoughts, after AYP the silence was quite different than just stopping thoughts.
Dear Ether,
This is why the presence of a guru is very much needed on the direct path especially for a new beginner. It is the power of presence which replaces the need for practice... I have been the same road as you concerning spiritual experiences... Even though I had many experiences and a kundalini awakening before coming to AYP but none was like after coming here...
quote:
I identify with his "who cares" attitude though. I'm not too attached to much of anything, and am always starting new things, then dropping them later, not sure if that's good but that's me.
What kind of meditation does he recommend, and how long and how often?
If his students adopt his "who cares" attitude, don't they lack bhakti, and easily just drop the whole thing, go away and do something else?
As for the "who cares" attitude, it was on that certain point between indirect and direct approaches and you cannot generalize it on everything.
As for the meditation practices he teaches... As far as I know, they include guided meditations (which audio recordings of exist) which I usually disappear while doing so I haven't tried them again but my cousin has had good results when he tried them. The art of not expecting and being in the presence (not in the now: http://www.stillnessspeaks.com/ssbl...sent_moment/) and welcoming. You may say it's the usual stuff and nothing too esoteric...
But I honestly cannot speak for Francis or his system since I've never been to any retreat or attended any satsangs with him. You live in the U.S. plus you have great internet connection. If you are interested in him, attend one of those internet meetings and discuss everything you want directly with Francis. You'll find a sincere and kind soul on the other end.
Love,
Ananda |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Nov 03 2011 : 03:41:15 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by maheswari
I like Francis and Jean Klein a lot...but one has to admit that if the student has not acquired yet some sort of inner silence, the direct path of enquiry will be of no use...it might even lead to "all is futile" attitude...
Being in the presence of the teacher and the power of presence replace all that. Sri Atmananda Krishna Menon, always insisted on being in the presence of the guru first then following the written instructions. Otherwise it would be futile activity.
Love,
Ananda |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Nov 03 2011 : 04:46:22 AM
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Ananda, each to their own. Lucille says exactly the same thing as Sri Ramana Maharshi just says it the way you are comfortable with. All external Gurus align the same way, regardless of their communication technique, because they are your own projection and perception of the inner Guru made manifest.
I only asked what you learned, there is no confusion in that.
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Nov 03 2011 : 05:23:19 AM
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Waking up and clarity |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Nov 03 2011 : 08:07:23 AM
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Maheswari says he showed a " genuine and constant interest"
and Ananda says he shows "the art of not expecting and being in the presence and welcoming"
so I think there must be a language barrier between us and francis. In my language both of those things are the opposite of "who cares".
maheswari wrote:
"seeking is bhakti,dont you think Etherfish?" Absolutely, and it is also the opposite of "who cares".
So what I am getting from this is that a beginner must study directly with francis. Unless you have some inner silence already from something like AYP, you are not likely to correctly understand him.
PS I am not trying to say one system is better than another. i just happen to belong to a very large, but not organized, group of people who like to learn everything over the internet. I will likely never go see someone who is great, like francis. So youtube is as close as I will get. we don't like to go see people in person unless we have to. So newbies who have that attitude will try to learn from only his youtube videos. |
Edited by - Etherfish on Nov 03 2011 08:40:17 AM |
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Jaycee
United Kingdom
48 Posts |
Posted - Nov 03 2011 : 10:21:39 AM
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Thank-you Ananda. Francis Lucille is truly inspiring. |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Nov 03 2011 : 11:53:54 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Etherfish
so I think there must be a language barrier between us and francis. In my language both of those things are the opposite of "who cares".
Wow, you've really misunderstood the "who cares" part when I've said it. As I mentioned in my reply, it's concerning that certain answer concerning direct and indirect approaches. It's not a general point.
Francis is a very loving person and so is his student, the friend whom Maha and I seek for advise.
And yes, as I've mentioned in my reply also. Beginners to the direct approach should seek a teacher and be in the presence of. I hope you reread my first reply again dear Ether.
Love,
Ananda |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Nov 03 2011 : 11:54:24 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Jaycee
Thank-you Ananda. Francis Lucille is truly inspiring.
You are welcome Jaycee |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Nov 03 2011 : 1:16:11 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Ananda
Waking up and clarity
Great. Permanent ? |
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maheswari
Lebanon
2520 Posts |
Posted - Nov 03 2011 : 5:52:42 PM
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quote:
i just happen to belong to a very large, but not organized, group of people who like to learn everything over the internet. I will likely never go see someone who is great, like francis. So youtube is as close as I will get. we don't like to go see people in person unless we have to. So newbies who have that attitude will try to learn from only his youtube videos.
there is no need to go anywhere ...there is no need to meet a specific "great"teacher...or to study directly under a "great' teacher....these things might or might not happen according to each seeker's personality,taste and circumstances....
circumstances play a big role which can not be explained rationaly,for instance sometimes the seeker wants to go and see an external teacher,but this never happens! sometimes the seeker does not want to go anywhere but he finds himself traveling to see an external teacher!these circumstances happen we do not choose them... one thing is for sure,each one has a unique journey and this journey will unfold exactly like it should unfold for the seeker's best interest
the external teacher will just point out the inner guru present in the seeker, exactly like ayp does
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Nov 03 2011 : 7:52:47 PM
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thanks maheswari, I completely agree; the inner guru sets up circumstances for me all the time. It's not exactly like AYP though, if you have to go see an external teacher for him to point out your inner guru. As Ananda says "Beginners to the direct approach should seek a teacher and be in the presence of". AYP can be done over the internet. It sounds like a small difference, but to me and people like me it's big.
Ananda; I re-read your first post and think I understand. I get that "who cares" is not a general point, only referring to which system one chooses. I had watched a lot of his talks before, and I just got the feeling that is an attitude that he applied a lot, but I guess not.
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Nov 04 2011 : 11:43:02 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by karl
quote:
Originally posted by Ananda
Waking up and clarity
Great. Permanent ?
Nope. |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Nov 04 2011 : 11:44:52 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Etherfish
Ananda; I re-read your first post and think I understand. I get that "who cares" is not a general point, only referring to which system one chooses. I had watched a lot of his talks before, and I just got the feeling that is an attitude that he applied a lot, but I guess not.
It's all good bro |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Nov 04 2011 : 11:45:23 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by maheswari
quote:
i just happen to belong to a very large, but not organized, group of people who like to learn everything over the internet. I will likely never go see someone who is great, like francis. So youtube is as close as I will get. we don't like to go see people in person unless we have to. So newbies who have that attitude will try to learn from only his youtube videos.
there is no need to go anywhere ...there is no need to meet a specific "great"teacher...or to study directly under a "great' teacher....these things might or might not happen according to each seeker's personality,taste and circumstances....
circumstances play a big role which can not be explained rationaly,for instance sometimes the seeker wants to go and see an external teacher,but this never happens! sometimes the seeker does not want to go anywhere but he finds himself traveling to see an external teacher!these circumstances happen we do not choose them... one thing is for sure,each one has a unique journey and this journey will unfold exactly like it should unfold for the seeker's best interest
the external teacher will just point out the inner guru present in the seeker, exactly like ayp does
Beautiful |
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gatito
United Kingdom
179 Posts |
Posted - Nov 10 2011 : 8:04:44 PM
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I think that Francis is great but he doesn't (as far as I know) provide a systematic approach, although, I understand that he teaches Kashmiri Yoga, which I tried out on a retreat with Rupert Spira.
What I love about AYP is that it teaches an integrated step-by-step approach to non-duality, which is missing from the Advaita scene (or at least, I've missed it if it's there).
For me, meditation is the link to Advaita and the missing ingredient.
From what I understand, many of the contemporary teachers have put in a great deal of spiritual practice prior to "enlightenment" or just "dropped lucky". Maybe those who dropped lucky did it in a previous lifetime and can't remember it now?
I love listening to Francis's satsangs, they're truly inspirational and full of Light and Love (and common sense).
I'd signed-up to go on a retreat with him this Xmas in Paris because I wanted to meet him in person (and catch up with some old friends) but it's fallen through unfortunately. I also wanted to meet him as he's Rupert Spira's teacher and I'd certainly count Rupert as one of mine. Again, he's full of Light and Love (and common sense).
I've spent a long time studying Atma Darshan and Atma Nirvriti and I can't remember anywhere where Krishna Menon says that the presence of an external Guru is essential. I'll go back and have a read through and if I find it I'll post again.
I'd agree that the Guru is indeed within and that meditation is the road to Her/Him.
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Edited by - gatito on Nov 10 2011 8:25:28 PM |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Nov 11 2011 : 03:48:49 AM
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I agree with most of what you said my friend. Concerning Atman Darshan and Atma Nirvriti, Sri Atmananda himself says that reading his work "Atman Darshan" will lead one to a teacher... If you want to understand Sri Atmananda more, you should read his spiritual discourses in which he insists more than once and at the beginning of the necessity of the physical guru.
Francis also insists on that, I've been introduced to Sri Atmananda by reading Kamal Joumblat books a few years back and the latter was sort of screaming that one needs a personal teacher to tread the path of Advaita.
I honestly don't know if It's necessary or not, but it's very helpful IMO. I've met one of Francis' students this week and he teaches on his own as Rupert does but he's not a formal teacher....
Being in his presence was quite something, but the odd thing was that while around him one understands everything being said and at the same time he feels annoyed and wants to leave the heck out of there but after leaving he feels clueless from one hand and on the other he just wants real bad to go back there and stay within the silent presence of the teacher...
It's great to hear that you're going to meet Francis, hope to do so as well one day...
Love,
Ananda |
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