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Ananda
3115 Posts |
 Posted - Oct 15 2011 : 11:00:52 AM
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I am going through a deep process of inquiring into almost everything these days... During which some deep things (Concepts and feelings..) are arising to the surface for me to understand and be aware of. Like recently I've had this powerful realization that I really don't love myself... A few tips from a friend and Lesson 333: http://www.aypsite.org/333.html helped me be more aware, understand and lovingly accept my relation to my egoic/human self. All I can say is that it's a good step onwards... Change is obvious...
But coming back to my present inquiry, during these last few days ever since the coptic christians massacre in Cairo, I have a noticed a deep relation with my identification as being born within a christian minority in the Middle East. Thought myself free of the way I was brought up, in a family of right wing christians who were involved with the christian militias during the lebanese civil war.
This mental/emotional conditioning now I see clearly and understand it more than I used to. But I am not free from it, my knee jerk reactions to similar sectarian events are still pretty much strong until I am aware of them. It feels like another block, a wall from being fully human/free from false conditioning. I noticed the same knee jerk reactions also during my adventurous and enriching time with muslim suffies in the Tunisian deserts... For someone who intellectually is free from religion and fanaticism, my realization is that deep down on the emotional level I am not even though I want to be free.
Would appreciate any inputs from anyone who could give some good and practical advise.
Love,
Ananda |
Edited by - Ananda on Oct 15 2011 12:06:17 PM |
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maheswari
Lebanon
2520 Posts |
Posted - Oct 15 2011 : 1:12:48 PM
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| hmmm..do you feel those knee jerks reactions when you are present in religious ceremonies not related to islam or christianity ?...for instance like hindu kirtan chanting circles that are going on in Lebanon.... |
Edited by - maheswari on Oct 15 2011 1:17:14 PM |
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jeff
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - Oct 15 2011 : 1:24:21 PM
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Ananda,
This may sound trite, but almost everyone feels as you do. Loving yourself is not an easy thing to do. You get there by steps. First you learn to accept and forgive yourself. Then you learn to like yourself. Then you learn to forgive others. Only then can you learn to truly love yourself.
You need to start with forgiving and acceptance. Consider looking deep into yourself. There are many techniques, but try to shine a bright light on what you can't accept and forgive. If you find it hard to accept, you can always surrender it up to God/Divine.
Peace & Love from your brother,
Jeff |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Oct 15 2011 : 2:12:19 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by maheswari
hmmm..do you feel those knee jerks reactions when you are present in religious ceremonies not related to islam or christianity ?...for instance like hindu kirtan chanting circles that are going on in Lebanon....
In Hindu Kirtan nope... Sorry but I don't understand what does this have to do with what I posted? |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Oct 15 2011 : 2:13:28 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by jeff
Ananda,
This may sound trite, but almost everyone feels as you do. Loving yourself is not an easy thing to do. You get there by steps. First you learn to accept and forgive yourself. Then you learn to like yourself. Then you learn to forgive others. Only then can you learn to truly love yourself.
You need to start with forgiving and acceptance. Consider looking deep into yourself. There are many techniques, but try to shine a bright light on what you can't accept and forgive. If you find it hard to accept, you can always surrender it up to God/Divine.
Peace & Love from your brother,
Jeff
Thank you for the lovely and supportive quote dear Jeff
[img]icon_heart.gif[/img] |
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maheswari
Lebanon
2520 Posts |
Posted - Oct 15 2011 : 4:42:19 PM
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quote:
In Hindu Kirtan nope... Sorry but I don't understand what does this have to do with what I posted?
just wanted to find out how deep rooted is your indentification with your religious background when exposed to "threats" from other religions different than islam....
since you answered no....then it seems your identification is not incurable  ...your conditioning could have been much worse.....the proof is that now you are aware of the presence of those residual 'fanatic' aspects.......next step is to love this residual "fanaticism", dont deny it.. then the feeling may take time, it may manifest as a big vibration of energy all over your body, let it, and (this is crucial) keep the emphasis on awareness not the energy i.e. reside as awareness and at the same time relax the energy allow it, make sure there is no pushing away of it....use love and acceptance to root it out....
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Oct 15 2011 : 4:50:06 PM
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Thanks dear Maha
I am very grateful for both your inputs, you and Jeff.
Just need patience and gentle understanding I guess.
This quote by Tony De Mello just came to mind: Everything melts and passes away in the light of awareness. Everything!
I am also reading Tantric Quest by Daniel Odlier and the funny thing is that I just reached a place where he speaks about the process of awareness and contraction being like a baby going through his blooming inside the belly of his mother. This cutting through, this contraction and opening will keep on going until the heart opens completely.
Love,
Ananda |
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whippoorwill
USA
450 Posts |
Posted - Nov 16 2011 : 6:18:34 PM
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I just saw this post. I don't have any real wisdom to offer, but I completely empathize.
The seeds of division and discord are sown so deeply that we can't even see them until suddenly the weed springs forth, and we find ourselves drawing a line in the sand saying: "That is not me. I don't belong here." We have to dig deep to get the weed out with its root intact. I'm still digging.
The only practical advice I have to offer is to keep on meditating. And, if you can manage it, don't cut yourself off from those who threaten or offend. In time, the differences will become less important. Their transgressions will become less important too. At least, that's my experience.
I don't follow my own advice very well (except for the meditation part). There are people and situations I avoid whenever possible. But my infrequent encounters are becoming less of a big deal. There's no more fight-or-flight response when it happens. There's no longer an emotion-laden story that I re-live every day. But your family put their lives on the line to defend their beliefs and way of life. The emotions have to run deep even if you weren't directly involved.
And if you are still being persecuted or threatened with physical harm for who you are, maybe that's part of the "none of us are enlightened until we all are" situation. Be kind to yourself.
It feels a little weird offering up advice on this. Hope it's not patronizing or awful.
Much love,
--Liz
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Nov 17 2011 : 03:50:38 AM
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Nope Liz, it's not
Actually your words and love in this post are very beautiful and heart touching. Thank you for your kindness
Love,
Ananda |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Nov 18 2011 : 06:35:59 AM
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Are you saying you don't want to be who you are?
The mental conditioning is you. It is the thoughts and memories that define you as Ananda.
Does that seem to you like a conflict?
You search externally for more proofs of the way you want to be, trying to persuade yourself by finding beautiful words and loving people. Yet, despite all those persuasive arguments the conditioning and knee jerk reactions remain as immovable as ever.
Have you ever wondered why that is? Why the wall seems to be so high? Why you decided to create it?
Whatever proofs and arguments you try and sell you ain't buying are you? Your strong willed, you will do it they way you want to do it and yet you cannot persuade yourself to drop those deep rooted ideas.
Well those deep rooted ideas ARE Ananda. It is impossible to tear them out or persuade them to leave. Like any conflict the answer lies in reconciliation and not war. Those internal beliefs make you who you think you are, they have managed thus far to keep you safe and they are not going to step out of the picture because you introduce a new idea. They will buck like he'll when you tell them they are wrong. When you go to war internally, however well meaning, the conflict that results becomes self hatred, an inability to love what you are because you seek to change it.
The first step in any resolution is to accept (not agree, not like or dislike) the others point of view. You have to listen to the reasons why they think they are right and the reasons why you think you are right. It has to be open and honest.
It is all about identifying the common goal. Both sides want the best for you, how could they not as they are both you :-) agree that the wall will need to be removed in order for the meeting to take place. Seek small steps to common agreement, how both can exist and better serve the common goal together. Once you get agreement then both sides will merge together and the separation will vanish.
If there are two opposing ideas there will always be tension and often conflict. Ultimately they are not different. There is no duality it just seems that way. First there needs to be one Ananda before there can be unity and harmony.
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bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - Nov 18 2011 : 11:18:09 AM
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Thanks for your brave journey, Ananda. I love you |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Nov 18 2011 : 2:20:01 PM
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The feeling is mutual dear Bewell
namaste [img]icon_heart.gif[/img] |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Nov 18 2011 : 2:25:24 PM
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Dear Karl, I am very sorry but I am finding it real hard reading your post... I am okay now with what I am going through... This is who Ananda is for the time being.
namaste |
Edited by - Ananda on Nov 18 2011 2:37:28 PM |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Nov 18 2011 : 6:19:51 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Ananda
Dear Karl, I am very sorry but I am finding it real hard reading your post... I am okay now with what I am going through... This is who Ananda is for the time being.
namaste
That's OK Ananda. |
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cosmic
USA
821 Posts |
Posted - Nov 18 2011 : 6:58:42 PM
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No advice from here, bro. Honestly, I don't think you need any at this point. I honor where you are in your inquiry and know you will pass through it.
quote:
Originally posted by Ananda
For someone who intellectually is free from religion and fanaticism, my realization is that deep down on the emotional level I am not even though I want to be free.
Beautiful realization. It'll come in time (and practice  ).
Last week, some missionaries came by my house. What group they belonged to isn't important, but their view was very different from (opposed to?) mine. In the past, I would've been defensive and hostile towards them, due to perceived hostility and desire to "convert" me to their cause.
I spoke with them openly, honestly, and without fear of how they'd see me. It felt like talking to "Agent Smiths" from The Matrix movies. But what I realized was that their "desire to convert me" was completely my own projection.
Maybe this isn't relevant to your situation, but thought I'd share it.
Thanks for your openness, Ananda
Love
cosmic |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Nov 18 2011 : 7:36:10 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by cosmic
But what I realized was that their "desire to convert me" was completely my own projection.
Dear Cosmic, thank you for your input Your love and good will are always felt...
On the other hand, I am sorry but I haven't quite understood your realization. Could you please elaborate on it.
Love,
Ananda |
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cosmic
USA
821 Posts |
Posted - Nov 18 2011 : 8:14:20 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Ananda
I haven't quite understood your realization. Could you please elaborate on it.
Of course. But I realize that it may not really apply to you...
Whenever religious fanatics have approached me, I've always assumed they wished to convert me to their religion. But recently I've realized that I don't know that for certain. Perhaps they do wish to convert me, but it's liberating to drop that assumption.
It's allowed me to speak freely with them about God and spiritual matters. Instead of giving them "spiritual authority/credibility", it's put me on even ground with them, at least in my mind.
But what I'm saying is probably off-topic and I don't know that it benefits you. My apologies for that.
Love
cosmic |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Nov 19 2011 : 02:52:53 AM
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No apologies plz
It's related, now I understand. It's mostly about having a clear understanding and making peace with one's own person before understanding others... Hope I've got this point right.
Love,
Ananda |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Nov 19 2011 : 06:09:56 AM
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I should really ask why you find my posts hard to read?
The reason for asking is that my meaning is exactly the same as both Jeffs and Maheswari.
Jeff mentions the technique for shining a light on what you can't forgive.
That is the part inside which is in conflict. It is also a part that wants the best for you, just as the part of you that wants peace wants the best for you. It is a holistic loving of the self, the acceptance that both parts want the the best that resolves that conflict.
Apologies if the words annoy or confuse you, I have worked practically with many people using a technique called 'parts integration' to resolve it. It's a beautiful thing to witness. it manifests as a physical merging with many tears and smiles as both parts find a home and two becomes one and it changes the persons lives forever
However it is 'stitching' of a particular situation, where as meditation is far more gentle and inclusive without the sudden healing created by parts integration which is more specific and spectacular.
I just want to help if I can.
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maheswari
Lebanon
2520 Posts |
Posted - Nov 19 2011 : 1:18:55 PM
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quote:
, I have worked practically with many people using a technique called 'parts integration' to resolve it. It's a beautiful thing to witness. it manifests as a physical merging with many tears and smiles as both parts find a home and two becomes one and it changes the persons lives forever
Karl your sentence reminded me of the following by Jean Klein:
"When you feel tension or fear see where it is localized in your body. Do not face this area directly but face those parts which are healthy, which are not furnished with fear. The healthy parts feel light, empty and expanded, so let this empty sensation invade the parts where feaer is localized. If you proceed like this the fixed energy, which is all fear is, will integrate in your totality" ( The Ease of Being/Jean Klein)
is it similar to what you are trying to say? |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Nov 19 2011 : 5:16:27 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by karl
I should really ask why you find my posts hard to read?
The reason for asking is that my meaning is exactly the same as both Jeffs and Maheswari.
Jeff mentions the technique for shining a light on what you can't forgive.
That is the part inside which is in conflict. It is also a part that wants the best for you, just as the part of you that wants peace wants the best for you. It is a holistic loving of the self, the acceptance that both parts want the the best that resolves that conflict.
Apologies if the words annoy or confuse you, I have worked practically with many people using a technique called 'parts integration' to resolve it. It's a beautiful thing to witness. it manifests as a physical merging with many tears and smiles as both parts find a home and two becomes one and it changes the persons lives forever
However it is 'stitching' of a particular situation, where as meditation is far more gentle and inclusive without the sudden healing created by parts integration which is more specific and spectacular.
I just want to help if I can.
Much thanks dear Karl, I know you mean good. It's much easier reading this post but as for the first one it just felt like walking in mud. You ask why is it so? This is just the way I felt.
In your gratitude.
Love,
Ananda |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Nov 19 2011 : 5:18:34 PM
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| Thanks for your input dear Maha, Karl's post reminded me of the same thing also. Maybe this is why that email was sent to us at this time |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Nov 20 2011 : 09:00:31 AM
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LOL reminds me of going to see a famous drummer performing a master class. He drums for a progressive metal band and there is a particular track which is a fan, favourite. I asked him about a particular part of that track, he played it, then someone asked about another part of the same track and he played that. By the next question it became obvious that he was resigned to playing the entire 20 minutes.
So, parts integration. I have to describe it outside of the scope of Yoga/Energies etc.
The description we use is that there is a 'part' which does not agree with the whole. It exists like a bubble and has it's own belief systems and strategies. It causes conflict because of the internal separation. (I must add that this is conjecture, a convenient belief, there is no indication it is true, but the results confirm that something changes dramatically).
I ask the client to get into the state of conflict.
Then to place both hands held out in front, palm upwards.
Next I ask the client if they can imagine the part in conflict as a person they know (often it is a family member). I ask them to bring this part out and let it stand on their palm.
I do the same for the part that the person is aspiring to be, or to do to also be represented by a person that they feel represents this part.
Next is a set of questions asking the conflicted part what it's highest intention is for the client (this is answered by the client who now clearly visions the two parts standing on their palms). This is quite intense because I have to push the client quite hard to to illicit the prime reasons. Once I can see that they are repeating the reasons and we have the true intentions I write these down.
I do the same with the other part.
At this stage it becomes clear that both parts have the same intentions for the client and that the clients needs would be better served with both parts collaborating.
I would then ask each part to notice that the other part wants the same things. By touching each palm in turn the client can be encouraged to make this connection. Usually by this point they are quite well in trance, in another world where each represented part is completely real.
As this noticing, encouraging and touching continues the clients hands begin involuntarily to move together. There can be resistance and a lot of tears at the points where the hands are unwilling to close, but as a therapist it was my role to facilitate.
At the point where both hands touch, the clients face and body language are a mixture of sublime ecstasy and release. It's a really beautiful thing to witness, they become for a moment like the most innocent of children. Perfect, no barriers, just love. It's sometimes difficult to keep from crying with happiness at this stage because the empathy is so intense we are sharing the same emotions and space.
I then ask if they want any other parts to join at the moment of union and then both hands are brought together. Usually they fold to the heart.
Lastly I ask them to see what remains in their hands. That is a fun moment because they often get quite a surprise. Everything from a spinning ball of energy to some beautiful creature they identify strongly with. I know that my job is pretty much over a that stage.
Apologies for the long post, thought it was worth describing fully so that you can understand how it appears to work.
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maheswari
Lebanon
2520 Posts |
Posted - Nov 20 2011 : 09:29:35 AM
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quote:
Thanks for your input dear Maha, Karl's post reminded me of the same thing also. Maybe this is why that email was sent to us at this time
Karl it is clear that you love what your doing...good for you and for those who you help out ... |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Nov 20 2011 : 10:51:09 AM
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Again, one of those posts whom I can't read... Sorry dear Karl But appreciate the gesture... I realize that the shortcoming is from my own side...
Peace |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Nov 20 2011 : 5:48:01 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Ananda
Again, one of those posts whom I can't read... Sorry dear Karl But appreciate the gesture... I realize that the shortcoming is from my own side...
Peace
It was to answer Maheswari.'s question.
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Sectarianism... Fanaticism... Conditioning
