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Divineis
Canada
420 Posts |
 Posted - Nov 17 2011 : 9:04:52 PM
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I got too caught up in this state the other day. Especially after reading some of the Dalai Lama's "Transcendent Consciousness". It felt like I was facing the scariest thoughts in the world, and that I had to go thorugh this experience in order to get enlightened and remove some of the fear we all have in life, remove attachment to thoughts and things (through a good relationship with thoughts, thats all). they say enlightenment uplifts the whole world. I feel I was close to this almost Avatar kind of state. It felt like what they call A dark night of the soul. I wanted to go through it for the world (but ironically... no me was there to go through it... which only brought me deeper and deeper). I feel that kind of selflessness daily (just the "diet" version hehe),almsot on cue if I want it (I try not to force states though, I prefer a natural "arrival"). I was still scared though... I've gone through that death of "I am". I constantly feel that stillness and eternal emptyness, but I know there's so much more I can give to the world simply through fearless doubtless consciousness, I just shy away at it. Blah, I'm only 23, some have told me to slow down, that around 30 I should be doing what im doing now at 23.
Im actually approximately one in 6 billion according to David Hawkins scale of consciousness (well... one in 6.3 billion, but there aren't that many people on earth I dont think, but that'd be more right in accordance with percentages...its a scale from one to a thousand, a thousand being avatar status, which is what I felt I'd be at if I went through this experience facing complete emptyness or ego death in the face) ). I need a guru I think. I don't know what to do next without it scaring me so much. Any words of wisdom would be great... especially from others who have gone through a dark night of the soul. I couldn't see it all as empty, too much fear from some things. The heart sutra comes to mind... emptyness is form, form is emptyness. Anyway, thanks for any words of advice
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BuddhiHermit
United Kingdom
84 Posts |
Posted - Nov 26 2011 : 11:07:43 AM
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You could always consider the words of a wise Zen master - "Now go and throw out that emptiness as well"
Namaste |
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bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - Nov 26 2011 : 12:00:25 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Divineis
...one in 6.3 billion, but there aren't that many people on earth I dont think....
Hi Divineis,
Incidentally, about world population, you may be interested in knowing that at the end of October this year, the world population passed the 7 billion milestone.
http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/7-billion
More importantly, for our purposes, you wrote:
"I've gone through that death of "I am". I constantly feel that stillness and eternal emptyness, but I know there's so much more I can give to the world simply through fearless doubtless consciousness, I just shy away at it. Blah, I'm only 23..."
You do have a lot to offer, and you are young to be having those insights. No need to rush. My advice: Find a path of daily practices, and stick with it long-term.
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maheswari
Lebanon
2516 Posts |
Posted - Nov 26 2011 : 1:28:13 PM
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excellent quote Buddhi |
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Divineis
Canada
420 Posts |
Posted - Nov 26 2011 : 2:57:27 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by BuddhiHermit
You could always consider the words of a wise Zen master - "Now go and throw out that emptiness as well"
Namaste
Yup, thats just what I did, I kept negating everything, even negation kind of, I have no idea how to explain that one. Kinda like, as soon as you've made something out of negation, you're negating things from the mind. Making a dream, from a dream, into a dream hehehe.
and bewell, thanks for the advice. My meditation practice is just sitting and being. And I do interact with my thoughts. I consider sitting and being to be just that. sitting and being more mindful.
I also practice zen by reading zen koans, which helps me with the emptyness part. Buddha nature : )
And every once in a while, when I feel my body just wants to do it, I'll do some mudras or a bit of automatic yoga while meditating Or even breath mindfulness, when I notice the energy going up and down my spine. I'll just follow it with the breath. I call it "god's breath"
blah, I guess I am a little all over the place with my practice. Somehow, it works for me though :)
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bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - Nov 26 2011 : 4:03:24 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Divineis
My meditation practice is just sitting and being. And I do interact with my thoughts. I consider sitting and being to be just that. sitting and being more mindful.
I also practice zen by reading zen koans, which helps me with the emptyness part. Buddha nature : )
And every once in a while, when I feel my body just wants to do it, I'll do some mudras or a bit of automatic yoga while meditating Or even breath mindfulness, when I notice the energy going up and down my spine. I'll just follow it with the breath....
I guess I am a little all over the place with my practice. Somehow, it works for me though :)
There are a lot of paths. Sounds like you are finding one that works for you. |
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Divineis
Canada
420 Posts |
Posted - Nov 26 2011 : 4:24:15 PM
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| THanks bewell :) |
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escapado
Germany
88 Posts |
Posted - Nov 26 2011 : 4:31:43 PM
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| Diveneis do you mind telling me about how this negating worked out for you? |
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Divineis
Canada
420 Posts |
Posted - Nov 26 2011 : 5:59:53 PM
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It just brought a deeper layer of seeing through egoic surface level personalities kinds of structures. Emptyness to be filled with what counts, love, laughter, creativity, all the good godly stuff. I didn't really learn anything new with it, except that you can't really judge a person. I made it to 1000 on the hawkins scale I believe (1000 is full on avatar/buddha nature). It didn't last, but I learned that being at 1000 is just more mind made structures, that we're all equals. The concept of numbering people just didn't make sense. God's with us when we need him, when things get too out of hand. We all have what we need when we need it.
I've been in a timeless kind of "place" for a while now. I still struggle a lot with my mind, but tend to laugh off the struggle a lot also. I think if you have a good belly laugh about it, it means you get it :-D . I can probably force such states again, but I like just naturally easing into the wisdom of the state rather than forcing states. Being natural and such :)
I just had a concert on thursday, and met some nihilist, she was all "everythings empty"... I showed her!!! She made emptyness into a thing. Just like I do a lot, but know better. She seemed really empty, like void of emotion, didn't care about things almost, it was kind of sad, I hope she wasn't like that all the time :s... it was like she had to force the thought of emptyness and live it somehow.
mouahahaha, hehe, got her smiling. I think she felt the full kind of emptyness. It's more for others than for me I think, this enlighteningment thing... at this stage. Same with some other guy... before the concert, he's all "ive never told anyone about this" kind of a thing, and went on talking about how he's growing into feelings like love :). He was trying to intelectualize it though. I just told him love can't be reasoned, that it goes beyond reasoning. I knew he was going back and forth into feelings and understanding love even while we talked. He thanked me for the chat. That was nice :).
Blahh, escapado, you got me thinking too much :p hehe. But I love thinking hehe. I had to meditate on your question. hmm. another thing that happened, just today. Impenetrable peace. I tried to give that one away through shaktipat to someone. As soon as I get good karmah, I tend to share it right away. Let it go, to uplift other people.
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Divineis
Canada
420 Posts |
Posted - Nov 27 2011 : 6:45:17 PM
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hmm, got too caught up in negating today... I negated the whole outside world. It felt like I was dreaming god's dream, and that if he agreed with my beliefs or thoughts, he'd change the dream. Not that there's fate or anything, it's just... this world outside of us, it can be changed when you realise the dream of it all. It felt like anything's possible kinda. I saw the consciousness behind everything, kinda like the aura of everything when that happened. Before this, I could turn auric sight on and off for like a really small moment, like a flash of somebody's aura, but today it stuck for like 5-10 seconds where I saw all auras. That's only happened to me a couple times before.
I think you eventually realise, "god's dream" is already perfect. I'd rather not stay in such a state though. I know how to get there, but would rather stay a bit behind. I don't agree with what got me there... negating anything... EVERYTHING. I rather like beautiful beliefs that make the world a more human place. I know adyashanti says to drop all beliefs, opinions, ideals. That got me to a high state once also, but... it just doesn't seem human. I like what Dan Hawkins has said, that when he got "there", he eventually wanted to return to the world and just be mundane and normal... or something like that, blahh... That's how I feel about all these states. They're nice, miraculous at times, help people out if they can truly relate. I like making Zen the most simple,down to earth, graspable thing ever though. All the who's in who world are wondering who's who... hm :-D |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Nov 28 2011 : 04:08:01 AM
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Definitely normal and natural.
You can carry on with these thoughts and experiences until you decide to dispense with them. They are scenery, personal drama, alternating between the dark depths to bright personal revelations of truth. From the enlightened God to the depressed and rejected soul. Both are false.
What lurks in the down state? What creates it? What is It's driving force?
I just got sick of it. Enlightened God today huh..........yawn, oh that again, I'm bored with it. Feeling down in the pit..........ah yes, perfect, I will enjoy this misery haha. Get bored with the drama and you will reveal it's source. Continue to go along with it revelling in the highs and dropping out in the lows and it will endure. You encourage it, like a kid on a swing you go higher and higher to feel that stomach churning plummet back to Earth.
Just realise that it is you that controls the swing. Just stop and get off, you will then have to confront what is that drives you. Mine was fear.
Another was asking about this dark night. I don't think everybody goes through this stage. Many avoid the thrill seeking and just get on with it. Maybe they face another version where compassion stops progress.
Anyway, you are not alone.
Make sure you are seeking for the right reasons. At your age it can be easy to hide behind something to avoid something else. That can be an addiction of sorts, something that appears vitally important, something to get absorbed and lost in. I'm not saying that is the case and you will know if what I'm saying resonates.
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Divineis
Canada
420 Posts |
Posted - Nov 30 2011 : 2:01:55 PM
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| Thanks Karl. It`s nice to hear your input. |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Nov 30 2011 : 11:50:10 PM
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| Sometimes there are multiple dark nights. A psychic once told me I purposely fall to the bottom because I enjoy climbing out. |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Dec 01 2011 : 03:10:03 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Etherfish
Sometimes there are multiple dark nights. A psychic once told me I purposely fall to the bottom because I enjoy climbing out.
Yes, it's strangely attractive. Are you a thrill seeker Ether? It probably applies to some Gamblers also. It's sort of an attempt to squeeze more flavour out of ones life, to break the routine. When your climbing out it is more absorbing. |
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Divineis
Canada
420 Posts |
Posted - Dec 01 2011 : 3:03:35 PM
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| Karl, I'm kind of curious, what do you think about the Guru\student relationship. Or... as in Zen, where are you coming from? |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Dec 01 2011 : 4:40:35 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Divineis
Karl, I'm kind of curious, what do you think about the Guru\student relationship. Or... as in Zen, where are you coming from?
The perfect Guru has no relationship with the student only giving what is needed. The perfect student fully obeys the Guru and evaluates the results. Once the student wakes their internal Guru no more external Gurus are required.............not that they stop 
The Guru need not be a person, if they are a person then there is no requirement for a physical relationship, there is no requirement for them to be alive. Each person gets what they need when they need it.
Does that answer your question?
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Divineis
Canada
420 Posts |
Posted - Dec 01 2011 : 5:44:59 PM
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Where are YOU coming from though...? That's more what I meant. And I think a student should be aloud to question a guru's wisdom. otherwise the wisdom is just...blah.
I don't like dehumanizing wisdom much (not that you do that). I think of stuff like "everyone should be loved or appreciated" (and here's the trick, from when I first applied this insight... it's always appreciated....... and always loved too hehehe :) )
I thought you might like this Koan I read recently, it goes well with what you've said:
High and Low
One day Zen master Huiji of Yangshan joined his teacher Guishan in plowing the rice field. Yanghan said,: "Master, this place is low. How can I level it with the higher place?"
Guishan said "Water is level, so why not use water and make the entire field level?"
Yanghan said "water is not necessary. Master, high places are level as high and low places are level as low".
Guishan approved.
:-D
hehe, I love this Koan. |
Edited by - Divineis on Dec 01 2011 6:43:52 PM |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Dec 02 2011 : 04:25:53 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Divineis
Where are YOU coming from though...? That's more what I meant. And I think a student should be aloud to question a guru's wisdom. otherwise the wisdom is just...blah.
I don't like dehumanizing wisdom much (not that you do that). I think of stuff like "everyone should be loved or appreciated" (and here's the trick, from when I first applied this insight... it's always appreciated....... and always loved too hehehe :) )
Everyone should be loved and appreciated is a good humanist philosophy. Certainly better than the opposing thought. Can you maintain it? that's the acid test of a good philosophy, or can something or someone come along and disturb it?
True wisdom is not philosophy, it is direct knowledge. It is freely open to questions, although the answers can confuse and often anger the student, because it appears to the student, that the question has not been answered satisfactorily. The Guru can only repeat what is known, it doesn't help much that the student does not understand his own question because they are not coming from direct knowledge, so only seek to satisfy their own Ego.
You already talk about Humanizing. If you can look at your world and see only Love In that humanity without distinction then you have no need of questions. If that is not true then you have questions to ask yourself, the Guru cannot make that journey for you, he can only tell you where to look. You can decide to look or you can ask more Ego centric questions.
Whatever you ask, it is all the same to the Guru, he has infinite patience and infinite time.
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Dec 02 2011 : 08:13:59 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by karl
quote:
Originally posted by Etherfish
Sometimes there are multiple dark nights. A psychic once told me I purposely fall to the bottom because I enjoy climbing out.
Yes, it's strangely attractive. Are you a thrill seeker Ether? It probably applies to some Gamblers also. It's sort of an attempt to squeeze more flavour out of ones life, to break the routine. When your climbing out it is more absorbing.
I don't consider myself a thrill seeker, although I used to do skydiving and jumping off cliffs into water and I LOVE roller coasters.
I am more of a builder, being in a construction career. I am not happy with just understanding electrical (my job), I like to know how everything is built. Everyone is so specialized and compartmentalized today that if civilization fell apart (whole different subject) we likely could not rebuild it as it is. I think this has happened in the past. So i enjoy knowing everything about how things are done from the very bottom. I am empowered by destroying and rebuilding. |
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Divineis
Canada
420 Posts |
Posted - Dec 02 2011 : 12:16:33 PM
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| Thanks for being yourself Karl :). I appreciate your wisdom, though do get turned off by your Guru'ish standpoint. You do speak truth though, I'm thankful |
Edited by - Divineis on Dec 02 2011 12:47:24 PM |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Dec 02 2011 : 2:25:13 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Divineis
Thanks for being yourself Karl :). I appreciate your wisdom, though do get turned off by your Guru'ish standpoint. You do speak truth though, I'm thankful
Guruish stand point.. LOL. Well I am certainly not one, quite the opposite, simply a very attentive student. It seems to take a million words to try to explain something and I can only do that in the manner and style of my teaching, so you can blame my Gurus for that. I'm sure they would have a good laugh.
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Dec 02 2011 : 2:30:43 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Etherfish
quote:
Originally posted by karl
quote:
Originally posted by Etherfish
Sometimes there are multiple dark nights. A psychic once told me I purposely fall to the bottom because I enjoy climbing out.
Yes, it's strangely attractive. Are you a thrill seeker Ether? It probably applies to some Gamblers also. It's sort of an attempt to squeeze more flavour out of ones life, to break the routine. When your climbing out it is more absorbing.
I don't consider myself a thrill seeker, although I used to do skydiving and jumping off cliffs into water and I LOVE roller coasters.
I am more of a builder, being in a construction career. I am not happy with just understanding electrical (my job), I like to know how everything is built. Everyone is so specialized and compartmentalized today that if civilization fell apart (whole different subject) we likely could not rebuild it as it is. I think this has happened in the past. So i enjoy knowing everything about how things are done from the very bottom. I am empowered by destroying and rebuilding.
Yes, skydiving is certainly in the vicinity of thrill seeking
Thanks for sharing. |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Dec 02 2011 : 7:18:21 PM
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Maybe, but i quit because I felt it is too dangerous. I'm not driven to find thrills like I would think a thrill seeker would be. It seemed to me the guys that did it all the time would do two to five thousand jumps and then get killed from equipment malfunction. So I did around ten, and figured I would cut my losses and do fun things that were less deadly. Five months after I quit the owner of the facility got killed and they shut it down.
Sky diving is more than just a thrill though. There is an incredible feeling you get hanging thousands of feet above the earth, having her gently pull you towards her. And free fall before that is indescribable. not a grounding activity though.  |
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all is empty/dark night of the soul
