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jamesrgarrett
USA
11 Posts |
 Posted - Aug 28 2011 : 12:53:19 PM
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I have been practicing deep meditation with some pranayama now for about 3 years. I took about a year and one half off after my brother died (due to anger, loss of inertia, or whatever). I started back full force with deep meditation about 5 weeks ago and added 5 minutes of spinal breathing about 2 weeks ago.
But, I feel lost.
I can pretty well trace my breathing in my spinal column. However, it gets lost at just about the navel both going out and coming back in. Will practice improve this?
More importantly though is my deep meditation. Within a week or so of beginning, I could sort of jump or step into sort of a different place which I interpret as my inner stillness. Now, I slip into it almost immediately after beginning "I am." But, I don't go any where. I don't know where to concentrate. Often, I find myself concentrating on my eyes. Of course, everything is black with occasional rushes of energy and white waves. I sometimes try to focus at a deeper place but it doesn't particularly lead to anything. Should I be concentrating on this more inner place? Should I just let the "I am" take me where it goes? That feels lazy. Most of the time, I sort of lose the "I am" along with no thoughts. It seems like that is the goal but I don't know. Can someone please help me? Jim |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Aug 28 2011 : 1:30:10 PM
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Hi James,
Spinal breathing. No need to worry about getting lost, just carry on past the confused part to end at the brow or root. It will come with time.
Deep meditation. Always the same advice, just loosely place attention on the mantra. Anytime you begin thinking you should be doing something special you are off the mantra, just gently come back to the mantra.
Sometimes you will lose it, sometimes not. Anytime you are thinking 'I should be losing the mantra' then you are off the mantra so gently come back to it by giving it your attention.
Nice and easy, any time you are having any thoughts you are off the mantra......so just easily come back to it.
Hope that helps. |
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Holy
796 Posts |
Posted - Aug 28 2011 : 2:30:47 PM
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Come back to the mantra. Self pace as necessary. Keep this going.
Yeah, unfullfilling for the mind right now, but that's its nature.
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Aug 28 2011 : 3:10:49 PM
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| Also , only add other practises when you are totally stable with DM |
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jamesrgarrett
USA
11 Posts |
Posted - Aug 28 2011 : 5:39:09 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by karl
Also , only add other practises when you are totally stable with DM
What does totally stable mean? I do it twice every day for 20 minutes. I understand staying on the "I am" mantra. Is that stability?
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jamesrgarrett
USA
11 Posts |
Posted - Aug 28 2011 : 5:44:49 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by karl
Hi James,
Spinal breathing. No need to worry about getting lost, just carry on past the confused part to end at the brow or root. It will come with time.
Deep meditation. Always the same advice, just loosely place attention on the mantra. Anytime you begin thinking you should be doing something special you are off the mantra, just gently come back to the mantra.
Sometimes you will lose it, sometimes not. Anytime you are thinking 'I should be losing the mantra' then you are off the mantra so gently come back to it by giving it your attention.
Nice and easy, any time you are having any thoughts you are off the mantra......so just easily come back to it.
Hope that helps.
Karl, Thanks much for the reply! As I said before, it feels lazy to just come back to the I am. It sometimes takes me out of that "inner place." Sometimes it takes me a little deeper into the "inner place." Isn't the inner place the goal? When I am there, I don't think that I have any thoughts, but I do feel like I should be concentrating on something. Should I force myself out of the inner space and return to the I am? Doesn't that kind of defeat the purpose? See why I say I'm confused? Jim |
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Holy
796 Posts |
Posted - Aug 28 2011 : 8:03:01 PM
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My friend,
how long can you remain in what you call as inner place? 1min, 2 min, 20min? So you still have to go into? And then how deep you go into?
The confusion comes because your inner place is something different from outer place. And at the same time something different from what is beyond and within. What is the cause of this confusion? The structure, composition and mixture of feelings, thoughts , sense and subtle perception is confusion. Why are you cheated so badly? :) No one has ever found a good answer to the why question.
But you yourself, that what always is, becomes clear and permanently visible if the waves of body-mind are destructured, loosened and dissolved to their essence of pure being and beyond again and again and again and again from the grossest to the subtlest. This is done by coming back to the mantra.
There are other methods too. Remaining in e.g. inner place. It is more a question of efficiency and continuity. Compare and see. It is hard to find something that does so much in 20min like DM. For many it is even too much.
The inner place is not the end. Who sees the inner place? And what about the source of seeing? And even beyond beyond, no end my friend. |
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AumNaturel
Canada
687 Posts |
Posted - Aug 28 2011 : 9:40:00 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by jamesrgarrett
What does totally stable mean?
It's about not overdoing it to the point that you may end up with delayed adverse reactions which ultimately slow you down as you have to cut back on practices excessively until they clear out. I haven't had any myself but so is the word. |
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jamesrgarrett
USA
11 Posts |
Posted - Aug 28 2011 : 10:51:14 PM
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I have appreciated all of the advice given to me regarding my confusion. Some of it was really "deep" and I'll have to think about it. Some of it led to others posts and lessons. I came across this lesson by Yogani that pretty much relates to my question:
"Clear pronunciation of mantra – While we may be inclined to hold a clear pronunciation of the mantra "I AM" (AYAM), the procedure of deep meditation facilitates the gradual refinement of the mantra to become very faint and fuzzy, and disappearing into stillness. When we realize we are off the mantra, we can pick it up again where we left off, which may be at a very refined level. Going all the way back to a clear pronunciation is not desirable if we can naturally pick it up at a more refined level. When we have a choice between a clearer pronunciation or a fainter and fuzzier pronunciation, favor the latter."
Peace be with you. Jim |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Aug 29 2011 : 04:55:16 AM
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Hi James,
Is that what is happening? The mantra is there but at a very fuzzy level as distinct from simply having the thought "I am resting in silence". Sometimes it can be difficult to separate a thought from the action.
When you lose the mantra for real there will be a space, a point that feels like you have been in a deep, unconscious sleep for a brief time, followed initially by some confusion as thoughts come back in "was I asleep, for how long, I've lost the mantra etc?"
I found that I began to concentrate on refining the mantra as a measure of progress until I realised I was connected to the thought "I'm refining the mantra" or " I am losing/letting go of the mantra". It's a subtle thing as the mind attempts to take control of the process because it refuses to drift when it ihas an allotted a task with a defined goal.
So the mantra can equally well be as loud as a rock concert with precise pronunciation if it naturally swings that way. Note that we can also get the thought "I should just let the mantra be what it wants to be", notice that is also another thought, vey subtle, you notice you are on that thought and then go back to the mantra in whatever style it is.
This allows you to become aware of thoughts like clouds in a clear sky. At first you are hooked into the clouds and cannot see the sky. Everything is cloud at that point. The mantra gives an unmoving point which begins to drag the mind out of the clouds so they can be recognised for what they are.
Stable in practice, everyone has their own interpretations. I think you should have transcended any anxiety about the practice, it should have become as nothing more than brushing your teeth. No expectation, just do it and get on with your day. This is distinct from overload symptoms which should lead to self pacing. You can get overload symptoms even if you are stable in practices.
I liken the stability to running. If you are constantly worrying about the length of the run, breathing, speed, the type of shoes needed then you tend to keep chopping and changing the method until it feels natural. This is not stable. It is stable when you just stick on your shoes, run the route without thinking and go home and get changed and showered. |
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I'm confused
