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GogetaSwami
India
27 Posts |
 Posted - Aug 17 2011 : 6:59:30 PM
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There is a primordial freedom from grasping your mind.
Mind being defined as the thing always on the Three Times (past, present, future).
Comments? |
Edited by - GogetaSwami on Aug 23 2011 11:22:20 PM |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Aug 24 2011 : 04:22:23 AM
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Yes, The first step is realising that this is what the mind does. The past being just memories, the future being a projection of those memories This creates the illusion of time. The present, or the now, is the only thing that is real.
Learning to keep the mind quiet and discard thoughts is the heart of the AYP method. The mind becomes still.
Real freedom is beyond mind and is available to everyone with the desire. |
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GogetaSwami
India
27 Posts |
Posted - Aug 24 2011 : 09:26:38 AM
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Notice how I emphasized the Three Times (past, present, future)?
This includes the mindfulness you are suggesting. Mindfulness of the present is not "it". Mindfullness of the present uses the mind, so it just discursive thought.
P.S. Obviously time does not exist. I think we are all beyond that. |
Edited by - GogetaSwami on Aug 24 2011 09:57:46 AM |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Aug 24 2011 : 10:24:05 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by GogetaSwami
Notice how I emphasized the Three Times (past, present, future)?
This includes the mindfulness you are suggesting. Mindfulness of the present is not "it". Mindfullness of the present uses the mind, so it just discursive thought.
P.S. Obviously time does not exist. I think we are all beyond that.
I'm not sure quite where you are going with your line of thinking. Primordial is rooted in the world you have created around you, all talk of a beginning is to do with that illusion. All is of the mind however it is put. We cannot talk about what is beyond the mind because any words only suggest ideas which are of the mind.
Mindfulness is just another word for witnessing, once you can control your thinking and create stillness it is possible to be mindful in another way. When you say 'it' are you referring to that which cannot be described except in negative terms? |
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GogetaSwami
India
27 Posts |
Posted - Aug 24 2011 : 12:45:23 PM
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All I am saying is that "witnessing" is grasping the mind thinking about the NOW. This is not correct.
Stilling the mind by using the mind is not correct either.
Don't you know there is a primordial freedom from grasping your mind? |
Edited by - GogetaSwami on Aug 24 2011 6:22:57 PM |
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woosa
United Kingdom
382 Posts |
Posted - Aug 24 2011 : 8:13:30 PM
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If you think you have got it. You probably haven't.
Who is the 'I' that has got it?  |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Aug 24 2011 : 8:19:23 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by woosa
If you think you have got it. You probably haven't.
Who is the 'I' that has got it?
Who's asking? |
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woosa
United Kingdom
382 Posts |
Posted - Aug 24 2011 : 8:34:11 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Etherfish
quote:
Originally posted by woosa
If you think you have got it. You probably haven't.
Who is the 'I' that has got it?
Who's asking?
Shut up I am confused.  |
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woosa
United Kingdom
382 Posts |
Posted - Aug 24 2011 : 8:38:58 PM
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Oh no, I said I again.  I'm going to bed. Oh no I said I again! And again.  |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Aug 24 2011 : 9:11:17 PM
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| I find it is better if I never say "I". |
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GogetaSwami
India
27 Posts |
Posted - Aug 24 2011 : 9:33:01 PM
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quote:
Who is the 'I' that has got it?
I thought we were all beyond this beginner's insight?
Even Wikipedia says that everything appears as mere labels (thoughtforms) designated upon causes and conditions. This applies to yourself, deities, time, the causes and conditions themselves, and even the principle of causality itself.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%9A...amaka_school |
Edited by - GogetaSwami on Aug 24 2011 10:08:39 PM |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Aug 24 2011 : 10:20:29 PM
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| I know, let's have a discussion of concepts in Yoga that cannot be put into words. |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Aug 24 2011 : 10:39:53 PM
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gogetaswami wrote:
"This includes the mindfulness you are suggesting. Mindfulness of the present is not "it". Mindfullness of the present uses the mind, so it just discursive thought". . .
"All I am saying is that "witnessing" is grasping the mind thinking about the NOW."
I don't think mindfulness is a very good word. As I think Karl was suggesting, being in the moment doesn't require the mind at all. Try to be aware of all five senses at once. At first it is too much for the mind to handle, but eventually you can handle it without the mind.
I don't know what you mean by grasping the mind, but witnessing here is sort of like splitting yourself in two. You can watch yourself doing things as if you are another person watching. |
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GogetaSwami
India
27 Posts |
Posted - Aug 24 2011 : 11:03:42 PM
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I'm not deviating from my original post, where the meaning is pretty clear:
There is a primordial freedom from grasping your mind.
Mind being defined as the thing always on the Three Times (past, present, future). |
Edited by - GogetaSwami on Aug 25 2011 01:13:51 AM |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Aug 24 2011 : 11:17:38 PM
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| I have no idea what "grasping your mind" means. I think i'll stick with meditation. |
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manigma
India
1065 Posts |
Posted - Aug 25 2011 : 07:14:25 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by GogetaSwami
There is a primordial freedom from grasping your mind.
Mind being defined as the thing always on the Three Times (past, present, future).
Comments?
You somehow remind me of alwayson2
I guess you mean Self (primordial freedom) is timeless... free from the limitation of mind that depends on past, present, future etc..??
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woosa
United Kingdom
382 Posts |
Posted - Aug 25 2011 : 07:17:09 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by GogetaSwami
quote:
Who is the 'I' that has got it?
I thought we were all beyond this beginner's insight?
Isn't that the most important question though?  Until I find that out then everything else is superfluous.
Damnit I said I again. |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Aug 25 2011 : 09:12:07 AM
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I just switch off when all this jargon gets hurled about. The thing is complete simplicity and doesn't need a truck load of descriptions.
Grasping the mind is a concept I can't understand on any level except as one fixed in the desire for body/mind. To me it's less grasping and more letting go, watching not interfering, passive I do not want to grasp the mind because I am not the mind.the less force the better. Grasping seems like force with a degree of self imposed violence.
I am not beyond anything because I'm still writing and asking on this forum, still reading, still meditating. I shall be beyond when I am beyond and not before. |
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maheswari
Lebanon
2520 Posts |
Posted - Aug 25 2011 : 09:22:51 AM
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same over here Karl
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GogetaSwami
India
27 Posts |
Posted - Aug 25 2011 : 10:31:43 AM
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When did I ever say to grasp the mind Karl?
I always said primordial freedom from grasping your mind.
Which is the exact opposite.
quote:
Originally posted by karl
I just switch off when all this jargon gets hurled about.
Do you really consider your posts to be LESS jargony than my 2 short sentences?? |
Edited by - GogetaSwami on Aug 25 2011 10:53:20 AM |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Aug 25 2011 : 8:43:58 PM
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Finally! eight days later - a clarification.
That sentence is ambiguous - I thought the opposite too that's why I was not understanding.
here;s how I read it:
There's a 'primordial freedom'.
......[it comes] from:
grasping the mind. |
Edited by - Etherfish on Aug 25 2011 8:48:27 PM |
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GogetaSwami
India
27 Posts |
Posted - Aug 25 2011 : 9:27:34 PM
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OK
There is a primordial freedom DISTINCT from grasping your mind.
Mind being defined as the thing always on the Three Times (past, present, future). |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Aug 25 2011 : 9:47:13 PM
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Yes, there is a primordial freedom when you stop grasping your mind.
Mind being...always on...etc. |
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manigma
India
1065 Posts |
Posted - Aug 26 2011 : 12:58:57 AM
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Soon there will be "time no longer" (Revelation 10:6), for the victorious cry will arise: "The Lord hath come".
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Aug 26 2011 : 04:24:20 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by GogetaSwami
When did I ever say to grasp the mind Karl?
I always said primordial freedom from grasping your mind.
Which is the exact opposite.
quote:
Originally posted by karl
I just switch off when all this jargon gets hurled about.
Do you really consider your posts to be LESS jargony than my 2 short sentences??
I think I'm in that sketch with the two Ronnies.
I want four candles please
There you go four candles sir
No, not four candles. I said four candles.
Well that's what I have given you, four candles.
I don't want four candles, I want four candles.......
Handles for forks.
I switch off when I get too much jargon, I switch off from my own jargon as well so I take your point. I will stop if you will infect I will stop before you do if someone can help me by pointing out when I am talking complete rubbish.
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Edited by - karl on Aug 26 2011 04:25:54 AM |
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bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - Aug 26 2011 : 10:11:44 AM
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I get it: four candles/fork handles
What are "fork handles?"  subliminal reference to f**k handles
I know, over-analysis optional |
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I think I "got it"
