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nearoanoke
USA
525 Posts |
 Posted - Jul 28 2011 : 10:25:22 PM
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Adyashanti (and many other enlightened folks) say the only thing they can say about what they know is the "I AM" piece of their being and nothing else. They say they can no longer believe the next thought that comes to their mind. I recently saw Andrew's (Anthem11) post about the same
I would like to understand this better. I understand it doesnt apply to certain practical things like the way the world works (e.g., My thought that I can lose my job if I dont work properly cannot be untrue. Right?). Does it only apply to thoughts that put us in conflict or create suffering?
- Near |
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jenniferad
47 Posts |
Posted - Jul 28 2011 : 10:52:13 PM
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Personally, I realized all I can know is what I am experiencing now. I experience myself writing on the computer. I experience my thoughts. I can accurately describe my thoughts, feelings, memories and physical sensations. I can't ever know for sure if my thoughts or memories are actually true or not, and in the absolute sense no thought can ever really be true because they are all relative. Pick anything you could possibly say or think and the opposite could also be true, and you can't ever really know for sure. But I can always know what I am experiencing.
I found that quite a relief because it took the pressure off to figure out right and wrong, truth and error, etc. I can just be what I am. And that is a very nice way to be. 
That doesn't stop me from living in the world where there are opinions, logical conclusions, predictable causes and effects, etc. But I know when it comes right down to it, it is all just thoughts and experiences coming and going. None of it is really true, except that I am aware, and I am having specific experiences. That's the only thing you can't argue about. Anything else is debatable. |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Jul 29 2011 : 08:53:57 AM
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 it's funny how there is a natural ability to pick the thread of a very large and endless ball of string with the reasoning that if you start at that one point the ball will suddenly unravel. Only when you realise you are both the ball of string and the one attempting to unravel it that the complexity and simplicity of that question become apparent.
The endless ball of string portrays thoughts as being something apart from the thinker, the string IS the thought, to make sense of it means employing another thought which now forms part of the ball of string. Like employing a can opener to open a can opener and finding they are both the same one. Funny eh.
I can no longer trust my thoughts....is a thought, so therefore you cannot trust it and thus around and around it goes with one thought taking precedence over another. |
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marcplatters
USA
10 Posts |
Posted - Aug 01 2011 : 3:28:16 PM
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| I found that quite a relief because it took the pressure off to figure out right and wrong, truth and error, etc. I can just be what I am. And that is a very nice way to be. I dont know what exactly I should do. |
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maheswari
Lebanon
2516 Posts |
Posted - Aug 02 2011 : 02:22:14 AM
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| nice sharings Near and Jennifer |
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maheswari
Lebanon
2516 Posts |
Posted - Aug 02 2011 : 02:38:13 AM
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quote:
the only thing they can say about what they know is the "I AM" piece of their being and nothing else. They say they can no longer believe the next thought that comes to their mind
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such a concise and life changing persepective sentence... |
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Aug 03 2011 : 9:41:42 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by nearoanoke
Adyashanti (and many other enlightened folks) say the only thing they can say about what they know is the "I AM" piece of their being and nothing else. They say they can no longer believe the next thought that comes to their mind. I recently saw Andrew's (Anthem11) post about the same
I would like to understand this better. I understand it doesnt apply to certain practical things like the way the world works (e.g., My thought that I can lose my job if I dont work properly cannot be untrue. Right?). Does it only apply to thoughts that put us in conflict or create suffering?
- Near
Hi Near,
I can only speak for my own experience and yes it applies even to thoughts like "I can lose my job if I don't work properly"
To elaborate, it is to become aware that no thought is an absolute truth unto itself. All the thoughts that come along in the mind are just possibilities about what could happen or what might have happened.
It starts with each individual thought, looking at each one that comes up and determining if that thought is absolutely true, meaning is it for sure the only outcome in a given situation?
In your above example, there is a very real possibility that if you don't work properly that you could lose your job. On the other hand, I can think of many instances in my life where I have observed people who don't work properly (from my perspective) yet go on to keep their jobs and even in some rare situations, get promoted! Maybe you can think of some examples from your experience where you have observed people keeping their jobs despite not working properly?
There are many possibilities from my perspective. Maybe you don't do your job well, but they like your personality so they keep you anyway. Or maybe, you do your job really well, but are always crabby and miserable to everyone so they let you go. Who can say what people's reasons actually are?
Eventually after looking at hundreds upon hundreds of thoughts in many different aspects of your life, just like the one you mentioned above, you stop taking your mind so seriously. None of these thoughts seem to be absolutely true all the time in all situations.
In my life, my mind does a great job of letting me know important things like, I should try to do my best at work so that I can keep my job. Hopefully this strategy will work, maybe I'll do my best and lose my job anyways, who can say?
The mind is a great companion, a smart computer that can predict a great many possibilities. The day though that I start believing what my mind says as absolutely true and for sure going to happen, is the day I start reacting and following it around and suffer accordingly!
Hope this helps clarify.
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Edited by - Anthem on Aug 03 2011 9:44:51 PM |
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maheswari
Lebanon
2516 Posts |
Posted - Aug 04 2011 : 02:15:34 AM
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quote:
I can only speak for my own experience and yes it applies even to thoughts like "I can lose my job if I don't work properly"
i agree with that...it applies to ALL thoughts
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nearoanoke
USA
525 Posts |
Posted - Aug 04 2011 : 5:40:14 PM
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Thanks for the clarification Andrew.
Unless the body-mind goes auto-pilot (i.e., acting without our involvment; upon awakening), I dont see a way this idea (dont believe your thoughts) can be used to determine the right action at any given moment.
If I dont believe my thoughts, how do I determine what is right and what is wrong? Whether I am being nice or being a doormat? In our example what is the motivation to do my job right. |
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Aug 04 2011 : 8:04:54 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by nearoanoke
Thanks for the clarification Andrew.
Unless the body-mind goes auto-pilot (i.e., acting without our involvment; upon awakening), I dont see a way this idea (dont believe your thoughts) can be used to determine the right action at any given moment.
Hi Near,
Not believing your thoughts isn't an idea that can be used as a mental strategy to navigate your way through life. As long as it is an idea, no matter how good it sounds, you would be better served to toss it out from my perspective.
quote:
If I dont believe my thoughts, how do I determine what is right and what is wrong? Whether I am being nice or being a doormat?
One man's definition of "right" is another man's definition of "wrong". My point of view is to not to create a rule about how to behave at all times. Rather, I address each situation as it presents itself and then follow my heart about how to act or react as required.
I try to do what feels right for me, how another person will interpret that is completely unknown to me. One person might think I am nice and another a doormat, who can truly know what another person thinks?
quote:
In our example what is the motivation to do my job right.
From my point of view, I am motivated to do my job to the best of my ability because that feels best inside. If I were to shirk responsibility, I would feel that and this is motivation to do the job as well as I can. I am also motivated to be able to support myself and my family, so this offers additional motivation too.
So I do the things I think will please those at work who I interact with. I ask questions along the way to see if they feel I am on track. Hopefully this all works, if not then life has other plans for me and I trust in that.
Hope this helps clarify.
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nearoanoke
USA
525 Posts |
Posted - Aug 04 2011 : 10:53:06 PM
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Thanks for the clarifications. All these things seem not of much use unless we are ready enough for them. There are many like these
Dont believe your thoughts
Drop all resistance
Let everything be as is
etc..
I hope someday someone can put these into set of practical techniques that can be used to awaken |
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Aug 04 2011 : 11:44:29 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by nearoanoke
Thanks for the clarifications. All these things seem not of much use unless we are ready enough for them. There are many like these
Dont believe your thoughts
Drop all resistance
Let everything be as is
etc..
I hope someday someone can put these into set of practical techniques that can be used to awaken
Good point Near, they are kind of useless as practices. They are more the result of practices.
From my point of view, each of the above you mentioned can be reached and understood by going one thought at a time. What is the issue or thought/ emotion that is in front of you right here and right now? From my experience, that is the best place to start.
Take any given thought or issue that comes up for you, whatever it may be and write it down as a statement. See if it is absolutely the only possibility. Is it absolutely true? What is the opposite, could that be possible?
Then one day you may find yourself no longer believing it. Repeat a similar process with all the thoughts that come along in your life, often enough and you will eventually no longer believe your mind,
In regards to non-resistance. Take a thought or issue that arises for you and see if you can face it in its entirety? Can you accept it/ surrender to the possibility it represents? Can you embrace the fear it carries?
With repeated practice you may find yourself no longer resisting it.
Let everything be as it is? Again, one thought at a time, one experience at a time.
AYP is a set of practices that endorse a multi-practical approach to reach the understandings you speak of above. Add in a little inquiry along the way with steady daily practices over long enough time and I believe the results will be there and everything will be "relational" in the words of the AYP writings. |
Edited by - Anthem on Aug 04 2011 11:48:57 PM |
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nearoanoke
USA
525 Posts |
Posted - Aug 05 2011 : 1:09:31 PM
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Thanks Andrew, that's a great way of putting things together.
- Near |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Aug 06 2011 : 10:55:45 AM
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And the master of not believing thoughts is in my opinion Byron Katie. If you check out her videos on youtube, you'll get an idea of how she works with people to have them inquire their thoughts in "The Work" - four questions and a turnaround.
See for example this funny one:
My mom needs a dog, I'm sure of it!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySU3z1PoOIA |
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GogetaSwami
India
27 Posts |
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Kahlia
161 Posts |
Posted - Aug 09 2011 : 12:55:44 AM
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"The analogy given by Dzogchen masters is that one's nature is like a mirror which reflects with complete openness but is not affected by the reflections, or like a crystal ball that takes on the colour of the material on which it is placed without itself being changed. The knowledge that ensues from recognizing this mirror-like clarity (which does not have an intrinsic existence in itself) is what Dzogchenpas refer to as rigpa.One knows that there is a primordial freedom from grasping his or her mind" - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dzogchen |
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GogetaSwami
India
27 Posts |
Posted - Aug 09 2011 : 2:51:21 PM
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The last sentence is amazing isn't it?
"One knows that there is a primordial freedom from grasping his or her mind" |
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Kahlia
161 Posts |
Posted - Aug 09 2011 : 9:49:47 PM
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The whole paragraph is great. Thank for sharing it.
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sambo
Australia
35 Posts |
Posted - Aug 24 2011 : 1:31:24 PM
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Hey nearoanoke
In my experience the 'i am' that i think you are speaking of is not a thought but a knowing. For example if I ask myself how do I know that I exist.... I just do.... 'I am' and that is not a thought but a knowing. To say 'I am' is just using language to express that knowing.
As I understand that Unshakeable 'I amness' is also called here in ayp the 'witness' or pure bliss conciousness.
So on a practical level why I think any enlightened master would say that 'I am' is all they can trust for real. Is that all else is transitory(thoughts emotions sense perceptions ect) so to continually put your awareness on that I amness is to establish your identity back to what is real. Or what you are!
In ayp however I'm pretty sure this method isn't used. The witness is cultivated via ayp deep meditation and other methods.
Although personally as I go about my daily life and continually lose my self in thoughts,perceptions ect I just remember 'I am' and it's kinda like a centering back to myself.
Well that's my understanding of the whole 'i am' thing anyway (-:
Your brother-Sam |
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Not believing your thoughts
