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nirmal
Germany
438 Posts |
 Posted - Aug 09 2011 : 12:33:04 PM
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Hello everybody,
I realize that with the "I am" mantra we are not putting a definition of it in our mind, however, what with the dissolution of the self or "I" that is necessary for 'enlightenment' to be, isn't this in some way counter-productive???
I mean if loosing the 'self' is the goal, then why keep it around longer than we have to by saying this over and over and over??? ("I", "I" "I")?
 nirmal |
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nearoanoke
USA
525 Posts |
Posted - Aug 09 2011 : 1:52:06 PM
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| That's because we cant say "You am" :) |
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nearoanoke
USA
525 Posts |
Posted - Aug 09 2011 : 2:11:22 PM
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Okay Seriously now..
"I am" is supposed to have no meaning, just a sound that we are repeating. So the "I" part of it shouldnt be putting any definition in our mind of self unless we are thinking of the meaning when doing the meditation
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bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - Aug 10 2011 : 10:12:05 AM
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Hi Nirmal,
As Yogani points out, "I AM," in the Judeo-Christian tradition has sacred meaning. It is the "Great I AM," the source of all, the one who is, the ground of being, ultimate ishta. That said, being rather focused on the little "I am," I had the same problem you describe.
The solution is practice. Simply go on doing your DM, repeating the simple procedure.
How is that a solution? Here is my explanation. The stripping of meaning from the thought of the sound is inevitable: Eventually if you repeat any "word" often enough, over and over, back to back, it becomes stripped of distinct meaning, reduced to sound vibration.
Be
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Edited by - bewell on Aug 10 2011 10:34:19 AM |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Aug 10 2011 : 10:22:18 AM
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Hi nirmal 
In my experience the sound "I" resonates with the upper portion of the sushumna nadi, mostly around the third eye chakra, so I believe that we use the "I" not to reinforce the "I-sense" but to purify the upper section of the spinal nerve.
Love!
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yanalroot
16 Posts |
Posted - Aug 10 2011 : 9:13:07 PM
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I AM is just a sound, it has no connection to english word of I AM like ( I AM A STUDENT) . I AM is only sound. it has special characteristics to trigger the nervous system .
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bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - Aug 11 2011 : 09:03:00 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by yanalroot
I AM is just a sound
Yes, so it is. Time for my morning sit |
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maheswari
Lebanon
2516 Posts |
Posted - Aug 11 2011 : 12:26:52 PM
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| time for my evening sit |
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yanalroot
16 Posts |
Posted - Aug 11 2011 : 7:53:09 PM
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psychicexplorer
USA
35 Posts |
Posted - Aug 12 2011 : 10:09:17 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by yanalroot
I AM is just a sound, it has no connection to english word of I AM like ( I AM A STUDENT) . I AM is only sound. it has special characteristics to trigger the nervous system .
Don't think about rabbits.
Don't think about rabbits.
...What did you just think of?
It sure seems to me like saying "I AM" but telling yourself to not think of the meaning is actually impossible especially since it would probably be occurring at a subconscious level if you did manage to not think of it. |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Aug 12 2011 : 10:32:02 PM
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Ha ha! When you drive are you constantly saying "Don't drive off the road, don't drive off the road!"
You have to direct your consciousness. |
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nirmal
Germany
438 Posts |
Posted - Aug 13 2011 : 01:21:08 AM
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O.K. 6 different people, 6 different perspectives!!! I guess in the end, like everything else, one has to choose the way that best resonates to each his own truth.
As for me,"I" Am going to kick out or delete any "I" that gets in the way of dissolution of "self" or "I" or "other" than. Why make it more difficult than it already is for "that" ultimate reality???
nirmal |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Aug 13 2011 : 08:42:07 AM
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Actually, repetition of "I" does not reinforce the self; it does the opposite.
When you were little did you ever repeat a word over and over for fun? Remember how it lost it's meaning, and after a while you are not even sure you are saying it right or if the spelling is correct? |
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nirmal
Germany
438 Posts |
Posted - Aug 13 2011 : 10:15:16 AM
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I suppose, Etherfish. From what or where did you learn this about the repition of "I?"
n. |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Aug 13 2011 : 11:38:58 AM
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| From repeating words over and over when I was little. They lose their meaning. Try it if you want. Any word will do. |
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psychicexplorer
USA
35 Posts |
Posted - Aug 13 2011 : 11:25:16 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Etherfish
Ha ha! When you drive are you constantly saying "Don't drive off the road, don't drive off the road!"
You have to direct your consciousness.
I don't know..... I usually say to myself , "drive on the road , drive on the road" that way I avoid the subtle embedded command of "drive off the road" |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Aug 13 2011 : 11:36:58 PM
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Exactly what i am saying. You have to think about what you are doing, not the opposite.
If the instructions are "don't think about the meaning", then thinking "don't think about the meaning" over and over is not what the instructions are saying. |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Aug 14 2011 : 05:04:41 AM
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Love these conversations.
If you are doing anything except pure repetition of the Mantra, then you have shifted off the Mantra..........and so go gently back to it.
It's like a gentle tug a the dog lead of the mind to tell it where it needs to go and stop it wandering off to the nearest lampost.
Thinking "I should be on the Mantra, I should say the Mantra like this, I should not give it meaning, I should just let it happen etc etc" is off the Mantra. |
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nirmal
Germany
438 Posts |
Posted - Aug 14 2011 : 05:30:17 AM
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Ah yes,but isn't the objective to void all thought from the mind???
To transcend the mind from thoughts of "I", and "other"???
Any thinking process or concept is an end-game (to me) that totally obliterates any progress or achievement of arriving in "Nirvana."
nirmal
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Aug 14 2011 : 05:57:33 AM
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| I'm not sure if maybe your are trying to say the same thing as Karl. But it doesn't have to be that scary or fatalistic. There is no objective to void the mind of thought; that's just asking for trouble. It may end up there, but not from following an objective, but as Karl says, just from repeating the mantra. |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Aug 14 2011 : 09:23:47 AM
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Just do the action nothing else is required, it will lead where it may, it is only a way of describing how it might be. When the mind wanders off and is noticed then a gentle pull towards the Mantra is all that is required.
No need to choke the mind, just gently point it back to the Mantra. The wandering and the gentle noticing is what is prescribed. That is all that is necessary for AYP, analysis is optional.
It's only one method to realise what you already know, that there is nothing to discover because nothing was ever lost you are infinite, timeless, spaceless and perfect.
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Aug 14 2011 : 09:33:01 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by nirmal
Ah yes,but isn't the objective to void all thought from the mind???
To transcend the mind from thoughts of "I", and "other"???
Any thinking process or concept is an end-game (to me) that totally obliterates any progress or achievement of arriving in "Nirvana."
nirmal
There is no Nirvana to arrive at, you are already and have always been beyond, Nirvana is the minds creation only, give it up. There is no, progress, achievement or obliteration, no end or beginning.
Only what is behind the action has importance, the repetition with continuity is only confirmation of intent. All practice is good practice when it is done with the correct intent.
Follow AYP DM with intent but without need of anything. |
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I am???
