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 Focus on Being Effortless?
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MooNiNite

USA
6 Posts

Posted - Jul 14 2011 :  03:49:09 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Message
So after studying many forms of meditation i have found that they all basically use a crutch to keep the mind on. Such as "I AM", breathe, music, objects, or even feelings. I recently started a new meditation where i just become effortless. I do not focus on anything, i just notice when my mind begins running astray and then i become effortless (focus on nothing). Does this sound like an effective meditation routine?


I have heard that this is similar to the Tibetan Vipashana meditation although im not sure.

Edited by - AYPforum on Jul 14 2011 04:57:17 AM

Etherfish

USA
3615 Posts

Posted - Jul 14 2011 :  08:51:16 AM  Show Profile  Visit Etherfish's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Yes this will be effective sometimes for people at certain stages, especially if you feel overload with iam meditation. If you get to the stage where you feel you aren't getting anywhere, just return to iam.
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woosa

United Kingdom
382 Posts

Posted - Jul 14 2011 :  12:39:56 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
That's how I started meditating I didn't actually know of any technique; I just sat down and did what you described.

It worked to a point, but using a mantra does get the 'ecstatic conductivity' moving in stillness where as just witnessing doesn't.

But that's me
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nearoanoke

USA
525 Posts

Posted - Jul 14 2011 :  1:25:26 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
That is what Adyashanti proposes as "True Meditation" or his meditation method.

It's origin is in the Zazen style of buddhist meditation specifically called "Shikantaza"
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MooNiNite

USA
6 Posts

Posted - Jul 15 2011 :  03:21:38 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Wow thats really cool!

Yeah sometimes i notice my energy flare up when i use the "I Am" but other times its better if i just do nothing. all very interesting. The techniques all seem like tools in a tool kit.
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stevenbhow

Japan
352 Posts

Posted - Jul 18 2011 :  9:23:12 PM  Show Profile  Visit stevenbhow's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
I think in Soto Zen they do a similar type of meditation where they sit facing a wall and that is it. I'm not sure, but I think this is related to the story/legend about the Boddhidharma sitting in front of a wall and meditating until his legs rotted away. I visited a Soto Zen temple a few years back, but I couldn't relax during the meditation session because of the scary Buddhist Nun walking behind us with a bamboo stick ready to strike if we fell asleep.
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nearoanoke

USA
525 Posts

Posted - Jul 19 2011 :  1:29:18 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
I have slight affinity to just sitting still compared to DM procedure. Somehow bringing the mantra in the middle is like a disturbance. Sitting still and letting everything be as is seems a more natural approach to the mind. I am not sure which approach is more effective though.

The AYP Samayama sounds closer to this approach than the DM. The Silence between sutras is where we face this challenge of sitting in silence. It is hard to understand in practice "how to sit in silence". I initially thought it to be "Concentrate on current moment" but again concentrating is someother practice. I realized later that sitting in silence is not doing anything and it is more similar to the method being discussed here. Just sit still and dont control anything. Let whatever happen, happen.

Yogani, can you please share your thoughts on this? is it correct to use it during Samayama?

- Near

Edited by - nearoanoke on Jul 19 2011 1:30:16 PM
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yogani

USA
5201 Posts

Posted - Jul 19 2011 :  3:00:38 PM  Show Profile  Visit yogani's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Near:

"Sitting in silence" is sitting with whatever abiding inner silence we happen to have, without increasing that presence of inner silence very much.

Those who have a decent amount of inherent inner silence may say, "Sitting in silence is the way to go. This is real meditation." And for them, it may be true, particularly if there is movement coming out from inner silence, which is what we are cultivating in samyama. Abiding inner silence is also the ground for effective self-inquiry, outpouring divine love in the form of service, etc.

But if we do not have much abiding inner silence to begin with, then all of the above will fall rather flat. In AYP, we call that "non-relational," meaning not much in inner silence (witness), and therefore not much ability to sit in silence, engage in effective samyama, self-inquiry, or anything else that depends on a natural presence in our silent inner being, which we also call "pure bliss consciousness," "emptiness," "witness," etc.

From the AYP point of view, the ability to sit in silence, and all that it implies as mentioned above, is effect rather than cause. It is an essential distinction, because it opens the door for everyone, not only those who have abiding inner silence already.

The real issue for most of us is, how do we cultivate more of our native abiding inner silence? This is what deep meditation with mantra is about. Can we accomplish the same thing by sitting in silence? Maybe some can, but likely most cannot. We have to be ripe and ready for it. See Lesson 328. And even then, ripeness can still be increasing with effective mantra meditation, which proactively cultivates our presence in stillness. Deep meditation does not cease being an effective tool, even for those who have been on the path for decades. There is no end point in cultivating abiding inner silence.

If the mantra feels like it is getting in the way, well, that is analyzing during meditation, isn't it? If we easily favor the mantra, no matter what else may be coming up (including the thought, "the mantra is in the way"), we will be going deep -- cultivating abiding inner silence. If we do not seem to be going deep, then that means purification is occurring at some level in the neurobiology, a necessary step for opening our continuing awareness in inner silence, upon which all the rest depends.

If sitting in stillness is comfortable, that's okay, but it may not be a progressive practice. It all depends on what we want -- an experience (or lack of one) while sitting, or a progressive long term result. We make our own choice about it. How we feel as we are going about our daily activities in the world over months and years will be the measure of our practice, not any subjective experience we are looking for or analyzing during our practice. There are pitfalls in trying to make too many subjective distinctions about our practice and its results. See Lesson 329.

This is why a consistent approach to practice is best. A practice that is continually being reinvented is no practice at all. We can keep our eye on the prize (bhakti), but we cannot project ourselves into it with the mind, including abiding in our mental perception of "stillness." We will notice our awakening in the present naturally enough if our practice is consistent and balanced with the rest of our life. If we take care of the basics, the rest will be there.

Everyone makes their own call on practices. What to do, what not to do, and when and how to self-pace practices as needed. This is how it is -- how it must be, because ultimately...

The guru is in you.

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riptiz

United Kingdom
741 Posts

Posted - Jul 19 2011 :  5:02:31 PM  Show Profile  Visit riptiz's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi,
I totally agree with Yogani and he explained it superbly.Yes for some it is easy to sit in silence with no mantra required(I am fortunate to be one of these, or not?)but I agree the mantra is the way to create the silence.
L&L
Dave
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boris

Norway
68 Posts

Posted - Jul 19 2011 :  6:00:12 PM  Show Profile  Visit boris's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
The more I progress with AYP meditation the more I see how powerful it is compared to other meditations.
Before,I practiced a lot of watching the thoughts without giving them extra energy,just let them go.until thoughts naturally slowed down and I reached more and more silence.So I could easily sit in silence after some practice.But nothing much happened.
When doing mantra meditation I generate an energy pressure in the body that starts to force through my nervous system and open my channels.I have done many meditations and this is the only meditation who creates enough pressure to go through all my energy blocks in the spine.(I have a very messed up nervous system)
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Chiron

Russia
397 Posts

Posted - Jul 20 2011 :  06:05:54 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Sometimes when the feelings get intense i don't have any choice but to sit there silently without any effort. But when the feelings are not as strong then its nice to have the mantra and spinal breathing to fire things up again..
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snake

United Kingdom
277 Posts

Posted - Mar 11 2012 :  04:31:16 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
for a while i got lost in just sitting thinking i was allowing beneficial practice,and it is peaceful but for me was wishy washy.i came back to IAM and can feel the energetic difference.its taken me quite sometime to make this choice,so thanks agai Yogani for affirming.
quote:
Originally posted by yogani

Hi Near:

"Sitting in silence" is sitting with whatever abiding inner silence we happen to have, without increasing that presence of inner silence very much.

Those who have a decent amount of inherent inner silence may say, "Sitting in silence is the way to go. This is real meditation." And for them, it may be true, particularly if there is movement coming out from inner silence, which is what we are cultivating in samyama. Abiding inner silence is also the ground for effective self-inquiry, outpouring divine love in the form of service, etc.

But if we do not have much abiding inner silence to begin with, then all of the above will fall rather flat. In AYP, we call that "non-relational," meaning not much in inner silence (witness), and therefore not much ability to sit in silence, engage in effective samyama, self-inquiry, or anything else that depends on a natural presence in our silent inner being, which we also call "pure bliss consciousness," "emptiness," "witness," etc.

From the AYP point of view, the ability to sit in silence, and all that it implies as mentioned above, is effect rather than cause. It is an essential distinction, because it opens the door for everyone, not only those who have abiding inner silence already.

The real issue for most of us is, how do we cultivate more of our native abiding inner silence? This is what deep meditation with mantra is about. Can we accomplish the same thing by sitting in silence? Maybe some can, but likely most cannot. We have to be ripe and ready for it. See Lesson 328. And even then, ripeness can still be increasing with effective mantra meditation, which proactively cultivates our presence in stillness. Deep meditation does not cease being an effective tool, even for those who have been on the path for decades. There is no end point in cultivating abiding inner silence.

If the mantra feels like it is getting in the way, well, that is analyzing during meditation, isn't it? If we easily favor the mantra, no matter what else may be coming up (including the thought, "the mantra is in the way"), we will be going deep -- cultivating abiding inner silence. If we do not seem to be going deep, then that means purification is occurring at some level in the neurobiology, a necessary step for opening our continuing awareness in inner silence, upon which all the rest depends.

If sitting in stillness is comfortable, that's okay, but it may not be a progressive practice. It all depends on what we want -- an experience (or lack of one) while sitting, or a progressive long term result. We make our own choice about it. How we feel as we are going about our daily activities in the world over months and years will be the measure of our practice, not any subjective experience we are looking for or analyzing during our practice. There are pitfalls in trying to make too many subjective distinctions about our practice and its results. See Lesson 329.

This is why a consistent approach to practice is best. A practice that is continually being reinvented is no practice at all. We can keep our eye on the prize (bhakti), but we cannot project ourselves into it with the mind, including abiding in our mental perception of "stillness." We will notice our awakening in the present naturally enough if our practice is consistent and balanced with the rest of our life. If we take care of the basics, the rest will be there.

Everyone makes their own call on practices. What to do, what not to do, and when and how to self-pace practices as needed. This is how it is -- how it must be, because ultimately...

The guru is in you.



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Stillpool

USA
39 Posts

Posted - Mar 11 2012 :  10:36:16 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
I think the reason sitting in silence "feels" so good is because you aren't encountering any purification, which is often messy. My meditation got out of hand, panic attacks and all. But I kept sitting, treating the attack like any other thought. Had I stopped, I wouldn't be experiencing the bliss I am now. The mantra is like a useful tool, used when a tool is useful. But we don't decide when it is and isn't useful. We just come back to it whenever ANYTHING/THOUGHT/FEELING/ETC draws us away. Simple. And the purification goes on. The mantra distracts you because you are using effort during meditation, pushing for a certain experience. Just let all that go. If you get uncomfortable, stop the mantra for a minute or two and come back to it at an easy level. Maybe sit in silence some other time than during meditation. You can do both. Or neither. Your choice. But the mantra enlivens the silence in a way that just sitting in silence can't do. Hope this helps.

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