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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
 Posted - Jun 20 2011 : 3:58:56 PM
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Namaste my AYP brothers and sisters! 
I often read about people experiencing a state of "emptiness" as a result of meditation and other advanced spiritual practices and I have often wondered what this feels like. My experience seems to go the opposite direction... I often feel what I would describe as "fullness" as a result of my practices and I'm wondering if this is actually the same thing just viewed from a different perspective or something. Any comments?
Love!
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maheswari
Lebanon
2516 Posts |
Posted - Jun 20 2011 : 9:03:14 PM
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hi Carson ...hope this helps
"there are various wrong conceptions,wrong ideas about meditation ,one of them being that it is an attempt to make the mind empty.When this concept is presented to me .i always remember the good old saying that an empty mind is the devil's workshop.....so to those people who seem to have grasped incorrectly the meaning of meditation ,i repeat:meditation is filling the mind with God ,God alone,nothings else besides God"(the path beyond sorrow/Swami Chidananda) |
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jenniferad
47 Posts |
Posted - Jun 20 2011 : 11:00:49 PM
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Hello Carson,
I have really enjoyed reading posts you have written in the past. I've been going through the archives of this forum and I am just so happy and grateful to have found this website.
I experience both emptiness and fullness. It's like stillness in action...a paradox.
Words can't ever really express inner experience, but for me the awareness of emptiness comes from an expansion of consciousness and experiencing that everything that exists does so in consciousness, and it is all the same thing...what seems to be there is all the same substance. The distinctions which appear to us are just appearances, and all that is, is actually nothing.
There is a recently published book titled "The Transparency of Things," by Rupert Spira. On the back cover it reads: "...we are led to see that it is in fact this very Presence itself that takes the shape of our experience from moment to moment whilst always remaining only itself. We see that our experience is and has only ever been one seamless totality with no separate entities, objects or parts anywhere to be found." That to me sounds like describing emptiness. I couldn't explain it any better than that.
And yet the emptiness also has a fullness which seems to me vibrating at the subtlest possible level, and is dark and somewhat cool and very, very soft, like a womb almost. And that is at the edge of what I can consciously experience.
Life is a paradox.
I just flipped open the book and here are some words which may also help. I love these words. They are on page 167.
"'I am that I am.'
There is nothing present in consciousness except itself.
Consciousness is empty of objective content, of everything that is not itself.
This emptiness contains all things.
It is a pregnant emptiness."
Best wishes,
Jennifer |
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bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - Jun 20 2011 : 11:10:38 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by CarsonZi
...I'm wondering if this is actually the same thing just viewed from a different perspective or something.
Hi Bro!
I'll comment
In the marriage of bliss consciousness and ecstatic conductivity, I see "emptiness" on the bliss consciousness side -- silence, witness, stillness, formless -- and "fullness" on the ecstatic conductivity side -- prana, luminosity, neuro-physical purification, form.
Thanks for your question. I've been blissing out in fullness for the last hour welcoming your energy.
Peace,
Be |
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manigma
India
1065 Posts |
Posted - Jun 21 2011 : 01:38:10 AM
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An empty glass is full with emptiness.
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bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - Jun 21 2011 : 07:39:01 AM
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PS I got a number of hits searching of the term "emptiness" in the Google books version of Advanced Yoga Practices Support Forum Posts of Yogani, 2005-2010 By Yogani
I notice that in one post on p. 804, Yogani is talking about going "deep, deep, deep" (after DM during Samyama presumably) in the practice of self-inquiry -- "I thought, Who am I?"-- and he speaks of this:
"pure radiant emptiness with absolutely nothing manifesting. Not one story. Not one thought. It is the light of Self nipping everything in the bud before any object can be perceived." |
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bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - Jun 21 2011 : 07:48:40 AM
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| In my practice these days, back to back mantra during DM feels like filling up with pranic energy. It it gets so full that if feels like I might pass out, but I try to be brave and return to the mantra come what may. Then samyama is releasing, releasing toward Akasha, "lightness of air." And then comes the samyama of self-inquiry: "I thought -- Who am I?" Relaxing, releasing into that process is where the description Yogani uses above resonates as a helpful pointer. |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Jun 21 2011 : 4:04:08 PM
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The best I can describe my experience is an expansion. No longer a compact, self contained 'i' , neither full or empty just aware.
This isn't permanent and happens automatically at various times. When it happens it feels like something just stops and there is a fade from individual into everything.
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Akasha
421 Posts |
Posted - Jun 21 2011 : 11:18:34 PM
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Well,....... 99% of space is, well...... you guessed it,......
....empty space.
Well.....There's your answer.
All the Love
Akasha
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Akasha
421 Posts |
Posted - Jun 23 2011 : 4:25:32 PM
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What i meant here ( above) is as you expand internally , that is, you become fuller, or bigger, but also for the reason i stated you become emptier.
If you look deep into space, i mean outer space, you'll see bits that are really quite dense, neutron stars specifically,possibly on their way to becoming a black hole once enough mass has built up( and then they collapse/implode because the fabric of space-time has been warped or punctured through the gravitiational effects of super-excessive mass i guess).They could even be portals to another parallel reality.They've made observations into relative deep space and they've ntoice that indeed these collectively dense bits are also moving away in different directions and subject to distant forces themselves.
But getting back to my point as we expand internally ,there being lots of "dead" or empty space between particles it makes sense that we can become both fuller and emptier.If you look at an atom, if it were to expand you would have more space but with t hat also more emptiness. Perhaps that's why those buddhists are trying to describe the same thing with that term 'emptiness' when a vast inner dimension opens up.I don't know if that makes any sense but as inner space expands it can feel like you are becoming both fuller/or bigger and emptier partly because it might be hard to put such a feeling into words.
The buddhists and the zen people seem to be quite fond of that word.
You might find this link pertinent.
http://www.thebigview.com/buddhism/emptiness.html
They talk about 'emptiness/void'(sunyata) as being empty of inherent existence and many other things.Like things being dependent on other phenomena for their existence.The philosophy is of course just an attempt to make sense of (and describe ) human experience.
**The term emptiness/void( sunyata) sounds like negation but you could interpret it as paradox**.
I know that the more you sometimes try to put into words expanded states of consicousness, the more words and thus consequently ideas, prodcuts of the mind seem to let you down.They seem to be the very things that elude description.
I did'nt really expand on what i meant in my previous post but have a wee read of that link; you might find it interesting.The buddhists maybe perhaps saying that say a cup cannot exist on it's own.i.e It exists in virtue of the things surrounding it at least in this reality we commonly speak of and refer to.
But as we expand internally so paradoxically if matter is largely compsed of empty space so we also become emptier as well as fuller.And this particular universe, be it outer/inner, may well be doing that.
Empty seems to suggest expansion as it's only empty in relation to the stuff around it.Or it could be the case that something is either lighter/less dense or denser, being relativistic terms. |
Edited by - Akasha on Jun 23 2011 4:34:50 PM |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Jun 23 2011 : 4:35:36 PM
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Thanks Everyone for all the great comments! So much to think about (or drop in Silence  ).
For me, I understand (with my mind) that everything is inherently "empty"... but I don't EXPERIENCE emptiness, I experience what I would call "fullness."
Perhaps two sides of the same coin, I don't know. What I do know is that I've lost the desire to figure it out.
Love!
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Akasha
421 Posts |
Posted - Jun 23 2011 : 4:39:58 PM
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Yes Carson, much better to experience it eh.
I think the more we try to figure out this kind of epxerience the more elusive it often does become.
The very act of conceptualising pushes it out of our grasp at least for me anyway, most of the time. I don't find it that helpful right now or practical..Maybe never. who knows?
I've stopped trying to figure a lot of this stuff out too.
P.S Alot of advaita/vedanta talk i personally find rather impractical.If someone says their car just broke down then i might try to offer a suggestion. |
Edited by - Akasha on Jun 23 2011 4:48:30 PM |
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bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - Jun 26 2011 : 4:05:43 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by CarsonZi
....I experience what I would call "fullness."
Perhaps two sides of the same coin,
Googling, I found that Carson's sharing seems parallel a "confession" blogged by a fellow named Wayne Wirs past March:
"By far, Emptiness is the most common "flavor" of enlightenment taught today. Yet lately I have focused on the Fullness aspects."
http://waynewirs.com/2011/emptiness...-confession/
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Edited by - bewell on Jun 26 2011 4:58:12 PM |
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WayneWirs
USA
17 Posts |
Posted - Jun 27 2011 : 12:29:06 PM
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(I noticed traffic to my site via this page, so I investigated and thought I'd expand on the concept of "Fullness").
Emptiness, to me, is the path of Inquiry. It is a very rational path: "Notice this, notice that, notice what is noticing..."
Fullness on the other hand, is a felt and lived practice. You use Life as your meditation hall. You use your reactions to experiences to help evaluate and guide your spiritual growth. Because Life is your guide, you are constantly immersed in the Beauty and Wonder and even Divinity of Life.
Fullness is the path of the Mystic: of Rumi, of Al-Hallaj, of Meister Eckhart, of Theresa of Avila. It is the path of surrender to Life, to something far greater than our pitiful little egos.
In Fullness, there is a distinct and powerful feeling of connectedness with Life (which is one of the reasons why I've stopped using the term Enlightenment in favor of Mystical Oneness).
Eventually, Emptiness and Fullness come together and the felt experience of Life is as if all things (Fullness) arise inside of you (Emptiness). See my latest post (ironically) for an example of this Full/Empty/Inside/Outside felt every-day perspective: http://waynewirs.com/2011/the-me-st...life-stream/
Though I don't know if this is what CarsonZi is talking about, I hope this helps clarify what I mean by "Fullness" in my writings.
Peace,
Wayne |
Edited by - WayneWirs on Jun 27 2011 3:18:28 PM |
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kevincann
USA
335 Posts |
Posted - Jun 27 2011 : 3:50:03 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by WayneWirs
(I noticed traffic to my site via this page, so I investigated and thought I'd expand on the concept of "Fullness").
Emptiness, to me, is the path of Inquiry. It is a very rational path: "Notice this, notice that, notice what is noticing..."
Fullness on the other hand, is a felt and lived practice. You use Life as your meditation hall. You use your reactions to experiences to help evaluate and guide your spiritual growth. Because Life is your guide, you are constantly immersed in the Beauty and Wonder and even Divinity of Life.
Fullness is the path of the Mystic: of Rumi, of Al-Hallaj, of Meister Eckhart, of Theresa of Avila. It is the path of surrender to Life, to something far greater than our pitiful little egos.
In Fullness, there is a distinct and powerful feeling of connectedness with Life (which is one of the reasons why I've stopped using the term Enlightenment in favor of Mystical Oneness).
Eventually, Emptiness and Fullness come together and the felt experience of Life is as if all things (Fullness) arise inside of you (Emptiness). See my latest post (ironically) for an example of this Full/Empty/Inside/Outside felt every-day perspective: http://waynewirs.com/2011/the-me-st...life-stream/
Though I don't know if this is what CarsonZi is talking about, I hope this helps clarify what I mean by "Fullness" in my writings.
Peace,
Wayne
Wayne,
Thanks so much for posting. I too, from my youngest possible age, walked with Presence.. a non-verbal presence.. a non-static presence. This presence has never wanted or needed anything.. never directed me to do anything.. and for this reason, I have never let myself get my shorts in a bunch about "silence". This presence has always been perfectly "silent" in all human ways.. but has still been there, very vibrantly there.
This is also why I've been a bit confused about samyama frankly. Why would I want to poke at the Presence with threads.. when the Presence is enormously present? Makes no sense to me.
Now, I can understand that "fullness" when perceived at intermediate levels can be entrapping so to speak.. any chakra below the 9th (from my perception) will trap Awareness in space and time... and this is indeed to be avoided.
So my observation has ALWAYS been, since I was a kiddie in diapers, that it is FINE to pull down the golden/silver power as much as desired.. just do not CLING to it.. as it will indeed be entrapping,
until you can perceive Awareness and the Silent Seeds of Form, outside of space and time entirely.
Then all the work is done.. one is Form and Formlessness both.
Thanks again for your very valuable contribution.. The timing of the reading of your post was a blessing to me..
Love,
Kev |
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BuddhiHermit
United Kingdom
84 Posts |
Posted - Jun 29 2011 : 4:49:51 PM
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The perception of the ultimate as either emptiness, or fullness, is dependent on your personality type.
Namaste |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Jul 03 2011 : 12:13:09 AM
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Hey Friends
Lots of great conversation here!
quote:
Originally posted by WayneWirs
Though I don't know if this is what CarsonZi is talking about, I hope this helps clarify what I mean by "Fullness" in my writings.
Hi Wayne, BeWell... I read both of the blog entries that you guys linked to, thank you both for sharing.
I resonated a lot with the "Emptiness, Fullness and a Confession" blog post that Bewell linked to. But there was one line in it that stood out as "not-resonating" with what I have been experiencing here.
"Fullness is a path of faith (not religion). Faith that as you surrender, you won’t get hurt or die."
I do have faith in Life, but it's not faith that as I surrender that I won't get hurt or die. The path I am on right now seems to incorporate a decent amount of pain. But the pain is surrendered to (not always immediately ) since what I do have faith in, is that Life knows what is needed/best.
Anyway, I only have a second, will probably respond more (to everyone) later.
Love!
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yogesh
USA
153 Posts |
Posted - Jul 04 2011 : 1:23:13 PM
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Fullness or Purna is associated with the acknowledgement of Atman and Brahman, whereas emptiness or Sunyavada is not and therefore does not include Sat Chit Ananda..vast difference IMO...
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Emptiness vs Fullness
