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Yoda
USA
284 Posts |
 Posted - Mar 26 2006 : 09:46:58 AM
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Dear Yogis and Yoginis,
I know that diet is a distant second concern here, but I was wondering if anyone here has good results with fasting? It's something I used to do on and off, and haven't recently but it seems to be coming to mind for me these days.
Yours,
Yoda |
Edited by - AYPforum on Feb 06 2007 12:38:30 AM |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Mar 26 2006 : 10:06:18 AM
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| Yes I have very good results with fasting. I drink only water. It's very healthy and strengthens the immune system. It's good to do one (24 hour) day every week, but I usually don't have that much will power. I'm fasting right now because I was starting to feel sick yesterday, and it knocks out disease quicker than drugs, and without the side effects. |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Mar 26 2006 : 1:28:21 PM
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I used to fast once a week.. no food or water for the entire day.. just one meal after sun set. Cannot tell you if it really helped me.. it was hard to do, esp. in the hot Indian weather. Of course I was going through a phase where I wanted to hurt myself so I could get God's attention. I don't think it worked... because I thought of food and water all day. Now I do one day in a week of light vegetarian diet. I think this does help me. It also puts me in a track for eating better for the rest of the week. (weekends are another thing). So if you can fast and not be tormented by it, I think it is a good thing to do, if however you keep thinking of food all the time you are fasting.. well maybe it is not worth it then!!!
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NagoyaSea
424 Posts |
Posted - Mar 26 2006 : 1:53:09 PM
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When I was younger, I would fast for two or three days at a time, but I would drink water, water with lemon and honey, herb tea and some watered down juice. It felt wonderful, very cleansing.
I don't think I could manage it now. I'm getting older (49) and don't feel good at all if I don't have regular meals/snacks...
Light and Love,
Kathy |
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Frank-in-SanDiego
USA
363 Posts |
Posted - Mar 26 2006 : 1:59:13 PM
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Hari Om
~~~~~
Hello folks,
I could do a much better job fasting… I used to fast once a week and need to start again. I enjoyed the lightness, but more then that
I enjoyed the control I had over my senses…I need to re-esptablish this. That said, there are days that support fasts better then others Moksada Ekadasi, Utpanna Ekadasi, etc. (Ekadasai = 1 + 10 or the 11th day of the moon cycle); Here's a list of all of the Ekadasi fast dates http://www.acbspn.com/ekadashis/ekadashis.htm
More for those that Vishnava's- but a sattvic appoach is good for all.
As Sri Krsna talks to Arjuna about this, "The merit one attains by fasting on Ekadasi is greater than that achieved by observing any other kind of fast or by going to a place of pilgrimage, and even greater than that achieved by giving charity to brahmanas. I tell you most emphatically that this is true."
If you care to read a bit about this, http://www.acbspn.com/ekadashis/utpanna.htm
agnir satyam rtam brhat
Frank in San-Diego
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Alvin Chan
Hong Kong
407 Posts |
Posted - Mar 27 2006 : 10:10:45 AM
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Shanti, fasting could be very helpful sometimes. But there's really no point in fasting with no water. That is harmful for you, although one day should not harm you much.
Well, I should mention may be one benefit: to train your will power. But it is a torturous way of training. And you can train it with other harmless ways, like sustaining a balancing asanas for a long time, eradicating bad habits,......
I've tried once. Fasting really helped me. But not during the fasting period, which I felt tired. As I'm now rather busy, I don't have the chance to fast anymore. |
Edited by - Alvin Chan on Mar 27 2006 10:12:46 AM |
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Yoda
USA
284 Posts |
Posted - Mar 27 2006 : 4:44:44 PM
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Frank in SD, A guy can't have a great time in Vegas with that info, but it's fun to read. Here's a link that has the 2006 dates:
http://www.audarya-fellowship.com/f...-2006-a.html
I'm in the middle of a 2 day fast and it looks like I lucked onto a date mentioned on the above link, so that's nice.
The article mentioned sungazing as a way to purify the Vegas experience, I've had some experience with sungazing and I don't think it's up to the job, but it is a banner practice.
Thanks all for the comments.
I just reread Yogananda's "Man's Eternal Quest" on fasting and read the Bragg book "Miracle of Fasting" and looked up all the impressive primate and rat research on fasting/calorie restriction and longevity, and I'm wrapping up a 2 day fast, so I'm sort of pumped up on the subject at the moment.
It feels a lot like an all day pranayama practice. That makes sense, since both sort of restrict a major fuel source and the Taoists say that the body tries to outsource for energy through the nadis when you do that. Not that you find enough energy through those little guys, but it is a purifying experience. Knowing that too much pranayama and too little meditation isn't a smooth move, it might be a good idea to fast on easy going days with time to do extra meditation. Possibly.
The calorie restriction/longevity folks on the internet look too skinny--way too ascetic and not healthy. The fasting crowd seems more robust. Like Mr Bragg who died at age 95 while surfboarding and he carried some muscle on him too. Bragg proposes skipping breakfast, and fasting once a week amongst other things. The dude is way unscientific and blusters about a fair bit, but he tells impressive anecdotes. |
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Yoda
USA
284 Posts |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Mar 27 2006 : 5:50:45 PM
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Yoda said
>> know that diet is a distant second concern here
Hello Yoda, AYP is nonspecific about diet, but that doesn't mean it is not important. Rather, it is seen that dietary needs vary a lot from person to person, and also from time to time for a person. AYP is nonspecific about diet because it is recognized that it cannot be specific.
During a yogic purification process, dietary needs may arise. Usually the practicioner can muddle their way to an appropriate diet for them through a combination of improving body instinct, and good information.
Sometimes during a person's sadhana, it may become very clear to them that fasting ( a form of dietary activity) is very appropriate for them. They may be drawn to it and the good effects obvious.
I've never been drawn to fasting myself, but it could happen any time. Now, where's that apple I am half-way through....
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Edited by - david_obsidian on Mar 27 2006 5:52:01 PM |
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Yoda
USA
284 Posts |
Posted - Mar 27 2006 : 8:25:22 PM
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David,
Good clarification!
Any apple leftover? I'm starving!
-Yoda |
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Frank-in-SanDiego
USA
363 Posts |
Posted - Mar 28 2006 : 12:27:27 AM
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Hari OM
~~~~~~~~
quote:
Originally posted by Yoda
I'm in the middle of a 2 day fast and it looks like I lucked onto a date mentioned on the above link, so that's nice.
Hello Yoda,
There are some great days during the year to do fast. I am of the opinion if you do them, doesn't hurt to rack up some extra cosmic-credits along the way, eh? The site I suggested was more about how the fasts came to be and some of the lineage behind it. I always find it rewarding ( delightful really) to read.
Happy to hear you knocked out 2 days in a row. I have not done that for a while. For me, after day one, the hunger thing subsides and I do not have the desire for food. Yet being the avg. householder, it time to eat again, but not driven by want. I do like the control of the senses... its not often I win over them, so its kinda nice to win but not bully them, they will be back. There's a saying, if you can control the tongue, you can gain control over all the senses. Those rascal taste buds!
agnir satyam rtam brhat
Frank in San-Diego
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Vicki
Ireland
20 Posts |
Posted - Mar 28 2006 : 06:49:23 AM
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Hi all,
I did a 40 day fruit, nuts and veg fast some years back when I was training with a particular yoga school. It had a bad effect on my health partly because I need some carbohydrates in my body, and partly because I was working and didn't make sure I was eating properly within it. I found it very harsh on the body and would not force myself in that way again. I think it needs to be done properly and when you have free time and not busy with work.....Having said that it is possible to find yourself naturally fasting, following your body's needs as opposed to a more mortification type. I have found myself recently doing this, as I went off food and naturally didn't want to eat. This seems much gentler than my previous experience!!
Om Shanti,
V |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Mar 28 2006 : 07:54:10 AM
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Hi Vicki,
quote:
.....Having said that it is possible to find yourself naturally fasting, following your body's needs as opposed to a more mortification type. I have found myself recently doing this, as I went off food and naturally didn't want to eat
I have seen that too.. I do tend to naturally fast certain days without being uncomfortable. My diet has changed too.. I don't feel like eating high fat and heavy foods.. and if I am forced to (like at a party).. I eat very little of it..
Lesson# 30 makes sense now..
quote:
If you meditate regularly, you will find that, in time, you will be drawn to a lighter, more nutritious diet. Your preferences will change naturally. Go with that. The body knows what it needs to
sustain the process of purification fostered by meditation. As pure
bliss consciousness rises, the eating habits will change accordingly.
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Yoda
USA
284 Posts |
Posted - Mar 28 2006 : 11:24:11 AM
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There are 2 things that made it easier for me to fast.
One is giving up caffeine.
The other is knowing that it is good for rats and presumably for monkeys (the primate longevity research won't be in until 2020--not enough monkeys have died yet, sadly. ) and I'm betting on for humans too.
Since I have this thought in my mind, when I experience a flicker of discomfort I associate it with cleansing, health, longevity, and better meditation sessions and maybe even some cosmic brownie points as Frank suggests. So it makes me happy.
It's mostly slight headaches that precede regular prana waves throught the medula oblongata that I experience. I've heard that headaches are common and I'd imagine just taking asprin would open up the nadis to help the extra energy come in if it became genuinely painful.
I seem to remember that headaches tend to go away as one gets used to the practice. |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Mar 28 2006 : 12:41:36 PM
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Yoda said:
The other is knowing that it is good for rats and presumably for monkeys (the primate longevity research won't be in until 2020--not enough monkeys have died yet, sadly.) and I'm betting on for humans too.
I've heard that seems to be almost universal in mammals, and maybe even animals in general, that caloric restriction leads to increased longevity. It will be a big, big surprise if it is not true for humans too.
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Yoda
USA
284 Posts |
Posted - Mar 28 2006 : 2:38:05 PM
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| I'd agree... but not for flies. Plenty of them have died in the lab, completely impervious to peer pressure on this one. |
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decon
6 Posts |
Posted - Mar 28 2006 : 2:52:55 PM
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What does everyone thing about things such as colon cleansing during fasting? I've seen some photos and read stories of people who experience dramatic changes after going through fasts with the cleanse. Some of the health books I've been reading seem to indicate its necessary to do cleansing along with a fast, especially if you are coming from a previous diet that was not as healthy. That merely changing diet will not necessarily get rid of the gunk that has built up over the years.
Some of the reports of people whose conditions have improved after cleaning out their insides are pretty amazing. Skin conditions, all sorts of ailments.
I know my diet was pretty bad for years and am on the road to health but feel I still have to deal with all that stuff in there.
Has anyone gone through the process during a fast? |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Mar 28 2006 : 3:36:43 PM
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Welcome Decon. Glad to have you with us. We have a lot of people who can help you with this topic...
If you go to the following thread you will find a lot stuff that might interest you....
Yamas & Niyamas - Restraints & Observances / Shatkarma
I am sorry I don't know how to add a link.. maybe somebody else could do this for me...
Thanks. |
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weaver
832 Posts |
Posted - Mar 28 2006 : 3:53:30 PM
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Hi Shanti and Decon, and welcome too, Decon.
The easiest way to add a link in a post is to go to that topic in another window, then copy the URL from the address bar of the browser, then go back to where you write your post and paste the link in there. There is a slightly more involved way to do it fancy too with code which is shown in the FAQ section.
So, here is the link to Shatkarma:
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....TOPIC_ID=668 |
Edited by - weaver on Mar 28 2006 3:57:57 PM |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Mar 28 2006 : 4:21:47 PM
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| Thanks Weaver... |
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decon
6 Posts |
Posted - Mar 29 2006 : 12:33:09 AM
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Thanks for the link, just went there and read the thread and saw Yogani's posts on the subjects.
I'd say I would fit somewhere in that middle camp he described. I've been doing meditation and yoga for a bit and have had ecstatic experiences from almost day one. It rises and falls but sometimes it hits in places in an overwhelming way and just makes me shiver inside and out. I am starting to incorporating AYP practices but I learned primarily from Sadhguru Jaggi Vasudev at Isha Yoga. I've gone through all of their main programs except for Samyama, which is a 10 day intense retreat held in India. The core practices are Shoonya meditation and a kriya practice with kapalabhati and some other stuff.
Anyway, while I am vegetarian now and generally eating healthier, I was not for years and had too many years of bad diets, alcohol, and all that. Gained a lot of weight. I've lost a good bit but I still feel like there is a sluggishness in there and I wonder how much has built over time.
I guess my question to yogani (or others) is whether basti means just a simple enema or if it is better to do a fuller "colonic." I've read other guides on the net and in books that talk about colonic boards and a longer process that takes like 30 minutes to have a gallon or two of water really get into your intestines before coming out. Usually they talk about this stuff in combination with a fast as a necessary part of the detoxification process.
If I should move the discussion over to that other thread let me know, just trying to get clarification from this yoga community :) Been reading it for a bit but finally decided to jump in an participate! :)
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Mar 29 2006 : 07:38:55 AM
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I've heard of all the great results from intestinal cleansing and enemas, but I have never felt any effect from any of them! i fast sometimes, and try to drink plenty of water, and eat plenty of raw greens, and get strenous exercise including twisting motions, and I think that must keep things pretty clean. Every time I try one of those cleansing programs, expecting great things to happen, nothing does.
Of course that doesn't mean they don't work for other people. |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Mar 29 2006 : 07:46:00 AM
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Hi Decon,
quote:
I guess my question to yogani (or others) is whether basti means just a simple enema or if it is better to do a fuller "colonic." I've read other guides on the net and in books that talk about colonic boards and a longer process that takes like 30 minutes to have a gallon or two of water really get into your intestines before coming out. Usually they talk about this stuff in combination with a fast as a necessary part of the detoxification process.
If you go down that thread a little more.. Yogani explains this..
quote:
Dhauti is the intestinal wash -- drinking salted water for a full GI tract flush. Is that what "Laghoo Shankprakshalana" is? Dhauti should not be done often. It does deplete the system much more than basti. Weekly would be a lot. Monthly is even too often for some. I rarely used it. It is drinking 2-4 quarts of salted water (about the same salt concentration as used in comfortable jala neti) over 10-15 minutes, and then lying down on the left side (best flow through intestines) for 20-30 minutes. Then run for the toilet. It's best to plan on at least a half hour of eliminating off and on, and then lie down and rest afterward. The salt causes the water to pass straight through the entire GI tract for a big flush out. Besides the cleansing, this can be very depleting. This is what hospitals have you do before major surgery -- complete emptying of the GI tract.
Basti is the more practical method, I think -- it can be done daily with relative ease (not a big operation like dhauti) and is not depleting. In fact, basti brings energy once ecstatic conductivity gets going.
The entire post reads like this...
quote:
Basti is simple warm water enema with a gravity bag, hose with clamp, and an insert fitting at the end. Tap water can be used if it is free of bacteria. If not, use bottled water. Just fill up (a quart or so), either leaning over on the toilet or lying down, and wait for a few minutes before expelling. It is a good colon clean-out.
For spiritual purposes basti is done every morning before bathing and sitting practices, along with jala neti (nasal wash, discussed here). However, as mentioned earlier, this is not a routine for beginning yogis/yoginis, nor needed for advanced practitioners with ecstatic conductivity well established. That is mainly what these practices are for, middle stage cultivation of ecstatic conductivity, done in conjunction with a full yoga routine.
However, basti will clean the colon for sure, which is a useful side effect for health.
Can basti become a habit that we cannot let go of, so we are bound to the bag forever to eliminate? Not in my experience. I used it for a solid 3 years in the 1980s and it was an important part of ecstatic awakenings back then. Then it dropped off and I have used it only occasionally since then. Elimination becomes part of the overall ecstatic neurobiology, but it takes a transition (with a full range of practices) to get there. The cleansing shatkarmas are part of that transitional phase.
So you can see why I am dragging my feet on basti and cleansing shatkarmas in general. If you start with daily basti now, when will you stop? How far off is middle stage? That is the question. But if you need it for health, it can work. Obviously, you don't want to become dependent on it for elimination forever. If it is used mainly for health purposes, then maybe once or twice per week will be plenty. When the inner energies are moving (kundalini), your rising bhakti will let you know to do more basti and other shatkarmas.
Dhauti is the intestinal wash -- drinking salted water for a full GI tract flush. Is that what "Laghoo Shankprakshalana" is? Dhauti should not be done often. It does deplete the system much more than basti. Weekly would be a lot. Monthly is even too often for some. I rarely used it. It is drinking 2-4 quarts of salted water (about the same salt concentration as used in comfortable jala neti) over 10-15 minutes, and then lying down on the left side (best flow through intestines) for 20-30 minutes. Then run for the toilet. It's best to plan on at least a half hour of eliminating off and on, and then lie down and rest afterward. The salt causes the water to pass straight through the entire GI tract for a big flush out. Besides the cleansing, this can be very depleting. This is what hospitals have you do before major surgery -- complete emptying of the GI tract.
Basti is the more practical method, I think -- it can be done daily with relative ease (not a big operation like dhauti) and is not depleting. In fact, basti brings energy once ecstatic conductivity gets going.
Alvin -- As for all those cramps and difficulties in the colon, it sounds like stress. The cure for that is deep meditation and spinal breathing, and some consideration of lifestyle. Besides keeping up your spiritual practices as simple and relaxed as possible, you will be making choices as you move forward in life with education, career, living space, friends, lover, etc. How those choices are made will have a bearing on how you feel inside. Right now you are living a rather cramped and stressful life. Is it surprising that you feel cramped and stressed inside? Maybe you have not had a choice so far, but you will as time goes on. So choose wisely!
The guru is in you.
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Edited by - Shanti on Mar 29 2006 07:52:40 AM |
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Alvin Chan
Hong Kong
407 Posts |
Posted - Mar 29 2006 : 09:23:47 AM
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Hi decon,
I have been doing intestinal wash about once every 2 weeks since my Skatkarma post. It gives me much of the benefits of fasting without much time needed, and some benefits which cannot be obtained from fasting, too.
If you are just doing Laghoo Shankprakshalana (taking around 2 liters of salt water), than probably it doesn't matter whether you fast or not. Just do it early in the morning before any food is taken. No special diet needed. And believe me: you will feel very hungry and weak if you don't eat after the wash. So after going to toilet and resting, you'll want to eat something. You may hurt yourself if you do such strenuous cleansing without feeding yourself.
There is another verions, Shankprakshalana, in which you take around 5-6 liters of salt water. Actually, take and flush until the stool become clear water. I haven't done this yet, as I don't think I have the stamina. And there're some dietary restrictions, too. It's very important to eat a specially prepared meal after this practice. So it's not fasting, and you should not fast!. Otherwise the intestines, which suddenly becomes empty after the wash, will cramp. The special meal is to ensure the digestive system is not irritated or hurted, as it is very vulnerable after Shankprakshalana.
The detailed instructions are contained in Satyananda's book: Asana Pranayama Mudra Bandha. Tell me if you want to hear any further experience from me.
Alvin |
Edited by - Alvin Chan on Mar 30 2006 01:22:05 AM |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Mar 29 2006 : 12:29:41 PM
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Alvin, maybe you should edit your post and replace water with 'salt water', just in case someone reads it and doesn't realize salt is needed.
Drinking 5-6 literes of unsalted water could make a person very, very sick. I don't know how much is needed to cause death, but it's not that much!!
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decon
6 Posts |
Posted - Mar 29 2006 : 11:03:03 PM
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Thanks all for the clarifications.
I think the confusion was in terminology for me. I meant using more water when performing an enema/basti, not necessarily the method where you drink it with salt to purify the system.
Here is a site where it differentiates between an enema and a colema. In the colema, there is a multi gallon container and a larger amount of water which is used. The advantages I've heard is that the water goes deeper into the intestinal track and clears out more debris, versus an enema which might only go a little ways in. I'm not an expert or even knowledgeable by any means, but that was what I meant by more water :)
http://www.cfsdoc.org/colon.htm
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Fasting
