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11jono11
United Kingdom
181 Posts |
 Posted - May 12 2011 : 3:57:51 PM
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I have a question relating to Karma which also ties in to surrender. Recently I have had a resurgence in some anxious/OCD thoughts/worries relating to disease etc, some are more rational than others, in summary, most are arising due to my current place of work: a drug and alcohol detox ward hence there are a lot of people with blood born viruses, hep c etc.
I am worrying could I have caught this or that by doing this or that, basically being hyper vigilant with regards to health and cleaning/washing almost obsessively; the mind is thinking up some very elaborate, convoluted ways that could cause infection.
My questions relating to all this: is Karma unavoidable? Is Karma what we deserve? Is Karma what we need? Is everything that happens perfect/needed? E.g. there is no point worrying about anything as everything is as it should be? If I surrender and trust Karma, everything will be fine, because everything is fine and can't be any other way and is only not fine because I don't trust and I am not able to let go.
So basically everything that should happen is going to happen and there is no point worrying about anything (r.e. anxious thoughts: 'if that touched this, which touched that, which could have touched that and that could have touched that' etc), as what is happening is happening and what is going to happen, is going to happen and meant to happen and all I can do is just take the normal safety measures that are policy in the workplace. If I am meant to catch a disease or get bumped on the head, it is all perfect and all meant to happen and is going to happen and it is all all providing an opportunity to awaken. Like my recent anxious tendencies, shining a light on the nature of all of minds workings and worries, enabling me to work something out and let go.
Am I making sense, this is sort of difficult to ask/explain. Just ask if anything needs clarifying.
Love and Gratitude. x |
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little_rad
United Kingdom
23 Posts |
Posted - May 12 2011 : 5:58:54 PM
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Hey :)
Maybe you could do with some grounding, to take focus away from the mind? For example, exercise, heavy foods, gardening, anything physical really. I find it can help 'distract' from such 'mindy' repetitive, obsessive thoughts, in a healthy balancing way.
See what other peeps say too.
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Kahlia
161 Posts |
Posted - May 13 2011 : 01:51:01 AM
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What is your definition of karma? The Hindu definition is different from the Buddhist version.
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manigma
India
1065 Posts |
Posted - May 13 2011 : 02:16:38 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by 11jono11
My questions relating to all this: is Karma unavoidable? Is Karma what we deserve? Is Karma what we need? Is everything that happens perfect/needed?
Karma, past actions, bear fruits only when we have a feeling of my-ness for our bodies. It is never desirable to have a feeling of myself for the body. Thus, by giving up the feeling of my-ness for the body one gives up the fruits of past actions.
This fallacy that the body is myself is the cause of creating in the imagination the idea of past actions. But how could something be true that is imposed or imagined about a fallacy?
From where can a thing be born which is not real in the first place? What has not been born, how can it be destroyed? How can a thing that is unreal have past actions?
The my-ness with the body is the result of our ignorance and it is destroyed totally by enlightenment. Then how does the body remain? It is to satisfy this doubt of the ignorant that the scriptures have outwardly attributed the continuance of the body to past actions.
Wake Up! This is a Dream
http://www.balbro.com/heart/beat15.htm
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Yonatan
Israel
849 Posts |
Posted - May 13 2011 : 02:29:19 AM
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Hi jono, ummmmmmm, what I can say is that if you have a disease now then you can do all you can to get rid of it. If a disease will come in the future (may it not come for you and may you be healthy, but we don't know), it will come no? at that time it will come. Right now we don't know anything about any disease happening right now or in the future..... right now you can take all the required measures for making disease not come. is worrying about it helping?
Love,
Yonatan |
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maheswari
Lebanon
2520 Posts |
Posted - May 13 2011 : 02:54:10 AM
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hello Jono....
i like ur honesty...a very close person to me has OCD....and it is not fun...
the karma of the physical body can NOT be changed...
everything that happens is the best thing that can happen...
off course you can take all the required safety measures...but ask yourself:are you the body?
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kevincann
USA
335 Posts |
Posted - May 13 2011 : 09:27:43 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by maheswari
hello Jono....
i like ur honesty...a very close person to me has OCD....and it is not fun...
the karma of the physical body can NOT be changed...
everything that happens is the best thing that can happen...
off course you can take all the required safety measures...but ask yourself:are you the body?
Let me ask you this:
Babies, infected in the womb by their AIDS carrying mothers,
whose fate is to suffer terribly and die..
What does your inner guru say about this?
I received an answer, but I want to hear yours.
This subject, of physical karmas interests me, due to
my autism, which formerly made me angry with god.
Love,
Kevin Cann |
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maheswari
Lebanon
2520 Posts |
Posted - May 13 2011 : 11:33:46 AM
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kevin ...the first thing that came to my mind when i read your question was: the fate of the baby was due to bad karma done by himself and nobody else...so the baby will suffer and die and it will take him even more time to reincarnate and even more time to Self realize.....
.
the bad karmas have unevitable consequences on the physical body (which we are not) the only freedom is to turn the mind inside......this is the teachings of Ramana Maharashi..........kevin check the following link....about the mental attitude of Ramana Maharshi and Ramakrishna vis a vis their cancer.....
Love
maheswari |
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kevincann
USA
335 Posts |
Posted - May 13 2011 : 12:15:03 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by maheswari
kevin ...the first thing that came to my mind when i read your question was: the fate of the baby was due to bad karma done by himself and nobody else...so the baby will suffer and die and it will take him even more time to reincarnate and even more time to Self realize.....
.
the bad karmas have unevitable consequences on the physical body (which we are not) the only freedom is to turn the mind inside......this is the teachings of Ramana Maharashi..........kevin check the following link....about the mental attitude of Ramana Maharshi and Ramakrishna vis a vis their cancer.....
Love
maheswari
Please post the link.. it didn't come through.
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maheswari
Lebanon
2520 Posts |
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maheswari
Lebanon
2520 Posts |
Posted - May 14 2011 : 02:03:05 AM
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| Kevin ...currently there is this topic by manigma in the Jnana section......the title is Death of i am... |
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kevincann
USA
335 Posts |
Posted - May 14 2011 : 11:13:01 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by maheswari
Kevin ...currently there is this topic by manigma in the Jnana section......the title is Death of i am...
TY  |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - May 14 2011 : 9:02:27 PM
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11jono11:
Yes in a way whatever is going to happen will, but we can change our perception of it, which will seem to change everything.
In a toxic environment the best things to do are the same as any environment. Make sure your immune system is robust, and stress is minimized:
1) Meditation twice a day will keep the stress and worrying down, which are toxic to the body.
2) Peak 8 interval training exercise three times a week will produce human growth hormone and boost the immune system. Instead of doing aerobics and keeping your heart rate within your zone for your age, peak 8 raises your heart rate above your zone, into the anaerobic area for 30 seconds, then let it fall 90 seconds, repeat 8 times. Of course you start with one and build up.
3) Then eat a diet high in raw veggies, and drink a lot of water.
Together these three things will give you an incredible immunity to your toxic environment. |
Edited by - Etherfish on May 14 2011 9:04:24 PM |
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maheswari
Lebanon
2520 Posts |
Posted - May 15 2011 : 07:17:50 AM
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kevin .......i am curious what did ur inner guru tell u ?
[img]icon_heart.gif[/img] |
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nirmal
Germany
438 Posts |
Posted - May 22 2011 : 04:18:57 AM
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For some reason I have thought that the more difficult and painful life was when more spiritual learning took place. This may be from a former life.And that those here in this carnation seemingly to have it all did little to no spiritual learning at all.(movie stars,models,business tycoons,etc.) And karma is what goes around comes around. When, who knows? But Yogani has spoken about this: free will to change our "fate" ourselves. I've enjoyed reading your answers!
Love,
nirmal |
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whippoorwill
USA
450 Posts |
Posted - Jun 02 2011 : 9:02:07 PM
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I personally don't understand karma. Not one bit. Is the baby born with a disfiguring disease being punished for some bad action in a past life? Is the rape victim being punished for raping in a past life? Or the mother who dies in childbirth and the baby with her? I personally think that viewing karma in this way, as physical punishment for past bad action, makes God into one helluva sadist, and I don't buy it. Sometimes bad things happen. Do we really need a reason for why they happen? Do we really need to blame God?
My Dad told me a story once of a woman giving birth. It was her first birth and went very quickly for a first birth. After the placenta was expelled, she started to hemorrhage horribly from the expanding, relaxing uterus. No one around her knew what to do to keep her alive and, as she bleed to death, her mother held her hand and stroked her forehead and told her, "It's okay. I'm here. I love you."
And that is God in our lives. I can't hear God, touch, smell, taste, or sense God in any way. But I know she's there holding our hands as we live our lives, telling us, "It's okay. I'm here. I love you." And whatever happens to me, I know that I will be okay.
Dad's story is fictional, by the way, but I think it makes a good illustration.
And I think Etherfish's advice is very good. Taking measures to protect yourself is a good idea. Body Substance Isolation.
Much love,
--Liz
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Edited by - whippoorwill on Jun 02 2011 9:38:17 PM |
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bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - Jun 02 2011 : 9:55:21 PM
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Hi 11juno11,
That is an interesting question. I am drawn to the most "common sense" part of that you said. Here it is.
quote:
Originally posted by 11jono11
...take the normal safety measures that are policy in the workplace.
Follow the normal safety measures, and get on with life.
Blessings,
Be |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jun 02 2011 : 10:34:46 PM
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Thanks Liz,
Karma is more of a rehab than a punishment. When you have to go through the consequences of everything you have caused, it eventually brings balance and peace to your soul.
At first you say "That's not fair - two wrongs don't make a right!"
Then your soul calms down as it sadly, eventually lives through the whole thing, and it says "OK - now I truly understand this pain", and it chooses silence.
I don't think God is sitting up there doling out punishment. I think he/she set up this system that works automatically, and quite well even though it has a very dark side. |
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whippoorwill
USA
450 Posts |
Posted - Jun 02 2011 : 11:13:34 PM
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| Thanks, Etherfish. That explanation helps. |
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cosmic
USA
821 Posts |
Posted - Jun 03 2011 : 12:58:22 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Etherfish
Karma is more of a rehab than a punishment.
Mooji put this nicely once. He said something like (paraphrasing here):
"Life is corrective, not vindictive".
I tend to agree. |
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harsharan000
Spain
59 Posts |
Posted - Jul 14 2011 : 6:28:12 PM
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Karmas are nothing but our own deeds, performed by us. Karmas are a way of keeping souls in this creation, because every action has an reaction... so naturally, for this very reason, one even not wanting the consequences, is condemmed over here in perpetuity. In hinduism and sikhism, this coming and going is called "chaurasee ka chakar " or the wheel of eighty four, which compromises all the species of lives, from the lowest of plant kingdom, up to the human beings, the highest. The soul goes on wandering, in different bodies, according to it`s "karmas" and "unsatisfied desires" or "attachments", which are the main causes of reincarnations. Even in christianity, it is said, as you sow, so shall you reap... or... even the hair on your head is numbered....so if we pay attention, we can see, nothing is left to be labelled as luck, chance or random... everything is precise. The world would be a chaos, if it was so. Just because we humans are limited in mind and knowledge, so we think that God or Supreme Being, is just something like us but on superior level...which is far from reality. He is, sat chit ananad, which means everlasting truth, omniscient and embodiment of bliss.
Karmas are of three types:
a)Kriyaman: those which we perform in this present life
b)pralabdh: those which are responsible of our present life destiny
c)sinchit: those which are the storehouse.
It is just like, suppose we have $200.000, in our bank account(sinchit), and we are going for holidays, and we make budget that we are going to spend around $2000(pralabdh) in those scheduled days, which we withdraw beforehand and proceed for our planned trip, and while there, we make some more money(kriyaman), which we bring back with us and put it in our bank account... so we can see this process is inevitably unending... we are caught in the web of this trap... it is such cunningly designed, that not only we humans but even gods or ishtas can not escape. All our tempers, characters, relations, health, wealth, honor , dishonor, span of life, friends , foes.....are all due to the effects of karmas.
Yogis, increase their span of life through yoga, because they minimize their number of breaths and morsels, which of course, sooner or later, that credit has to come to an end...so when one has not to take anything from anybody or give anything to anybody, one leaves this world, because one has finished one`s cash... so one has to go and come back with it again. The trap, consists of making and spending (karmas).
We all know who Dhritrashtra was, the father of the kauravas. If I am not mistaken he was blind from birth. Once when he was in the company of Krishna, he told him that, due to his spiritual developement, he could go back through his previous 99 births, and he could see no karma as such for which he was blind in this present life. So Krishna, with his power, took him 5 lives more backwards, means his 104th life, and showed him how once as a child, he was near a pond and was taking out the eyes of a worm with a pointed object.
From this simple example, for those who believe, karmas and reincarnation do exist. And it is clear, we do freely perform karmas, but it is totally not in our hands, how and when are they to bear it`s fruits, that is the job of mother nature,(not God please), where and when to unfold.
Karmas are very mysterious, mostly beyond our reach of mind and intellect. It would be wise on our part, to talk good, do dood and be good. Beacuse as said before, our present life is built from our past karmas.... naturally our future will be based on our present karmas. If pain is given(sown), naturally pain will come back to us(destiny).
Mostly, nobody is perfect, so that is why some are more happy , and some are more miserable. If we had more good karmas, we may be reaping it in a paradise, or if we had more bad karmas, we may have been be in a reformatory plane, but in either case, we shall not escape the wheel of eighty four, again we would be born in some specie.
So one may ask, how to come out of this trap? As the bani says: Awar kaaj tere kitte na kam, mil sadh sangat bhaj kewal Nam, which means, nothing else will be of your avail, but get in touch with a saint, a lover of God, a holy man,( holiness is not got, by wearing saffaron dresses ot special attaires, or external complements, or by fastings, nor pilgrimages, or by splashing ashes on the body, but by comunion with the almighty Lord, through meditation) and practice the meditation according to His instructions... this is the remedy, according to the wise ones! As Christ said: man is the living temple of God. God is a spiritual being, which has to be realized by our true nature, known as spirit or soul. We are not the body, if anything as such has to be merged in the Universal Spirit, naturally it has to be the spirit, as the body is left here once we die, all phisicall or gross matter is made of the 5 elements, which are transient and perishable.
So it is the soul, which has to merge in it`s origin, known also as Supreme Being, and for that we have to use the vehicle of guided meditation from an expert, from a teacher... or call it Guru.
This science is not anything new.. it was the same with Christ, with Kabir Sahib, Guru Nanak and His succesors, Guru Ravi Das, Tulsi Sahib, Sant Tukaram... and some others, but always with the one same message. If the Sun is one, naturally the rays emanating from it are the same, they can not be different. If we try to find Him outwards, we shall not only not find Him, but shall get lost in disputes,ignorance, fights and wars. But if we try to find Him in His true temple, which is this human body, there is only one way, no matter to which religion, caste or color one belongs.... there only love, devotion and purity counts, for being allowed to enter His court; as we may have read: Sahib ke darbar mein kewal bhakti aur pyar,aur kewal bhakti aur pyar mein, Sahib raazee. Which means: Only love and devotion is needed for the Lord`s court, and only with love and devotion is the Lord satisfied!
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Edited by - harsharan000 on Jul 15 2011 5:58:34 PM |
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harsharan000
Spain
59 Posts |
Posted - Jul 15 2011 : 6:13:01 PM
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| As Krishna told Arjuna, the easiest way to realize me is, to surrender yourself to me, and take refuge in me. This path is called devotion. Nothing else pleases the Lord more, than, loving Him, being humble and devoted to Him. Because when we surrender ourselves to Him, then only goodness, will be our output,and we incurr in no karma...as we act in His will, and by doing so, we do the wisest thing, that one can do in his or her life, since coming into existence. By doing so, there are much more benefits, of which we could ever imagine: His constant protection; He takes cares of us, as a mother to a child; nourishes us with love; washes our dirt with His glance of mercy; we become pure, and sing His inmense glory.... not only that,but we cut our bonds with creation, and become free in a true sense, by leaving mind behind... and in the end, the best of best happens, the drop(soul), merges in the Ocean(Lord), once and forever....this is the greatness, of one pointed devotion to Him. |
Edited by - harsharan000 on Jul 15 2011 6:18:28 PM |
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whippoorwill
USA
450 Posts |
Posted - Jul 15 2011 : 10:28:01 PM
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Thanks for writing this!
--Liz |
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xir
Ireland
25 Posts |
Posted - Jul 16 2011 : 6:19:15 PM
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Fear is always present here, no matter how much i know or work on trying to remedy it.
Mostly, these practices, will bring more sensitivity to the emotions and the like, i have found.
There is definitely pain present, just moving along too, surrender is sometimes just #a breathe out# and it's over. |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jul 16 2011 : 6:22:57 PM
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| What do you have to lose? |
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yogesh
USA
153 Posts |
Posted - Jul 16 2011 : 9:37:28 PM
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11jono11, if you have have doubts you should get your blood tested...
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HELP LETTING GO: KARMA, SURRENDER AND ANXIETY/OCD
