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kevincann
USA
335 Posts |
 Posted - May 07 2011 : 7:15:43 PM
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Hello,
I have seldom used traditional mantras. In fact, just like a few others,
I have an innate resistance to them, that I do not fully understand at
this time. I have used other practices which I have found quite effective.
However perhaps I am wrong; perhaps mantras are the cats meow and I have
deprived myself and others of an extemely valuable practice.
I believe I understand quite a bit of the technical theory behind them,
but I do not use them. But, in the interests of being the one to learn
a different way, and not always insist on being the one to share,
I wish to ask for input on mantras.
When I was about 12, during my 2nd period of practice in this life,
I did for a period of time use the mantra Rama (Rrraaaaaa Maaaaaaa).
At that time, i noticed that it strengthened and solidified the
flow between the throat and brow. In my opinion, it would be easy
to create endless Mantra for specific purposes.
Now I know, that the meaning of the mantra used is often important to
people. Of course so many westerners use Sanskrit mantras and have
no idea what it means.. or even if they have the translation.. I wonder
why they don't use a mantra in their native language.
I know there are many who might think that a mantra in Sanskrit is
"magical" because some teacher recommended it. I am not saying that
this thought is wrong. I am not being judgmental; perhaps I am
grossly wrong.
Please consider me an empty vessel that knows nothing about mantras,
so that I may learn more from someone who is extremely well versed.
I don't mind hearing "traditional responses", but I would especially
love hearing from a "psychic explorer", who doesn't just repeat dead
people's words, but who has thoroughly mastered this aspect of
practice. I would be so pleased to hear from such a person.
I know that I give a teensey bit of offense, in my attitude towards
traditions that are followed, but not quite understood.. I mean,
if the Buddha developed something, then likely only he fully understood
it; no matter how much he pointed at the moon, nobody, not even an
enlightened person might fully understand the practice.
So, please forgive my teensey bit of offense; I thirst for true
knowlege wherever it may be found.. by any method. But I personally
do not respond well to "the high poobah said so!" as the scientific
explanation for something..
I will not respond unkindly to any response, no matter how "traditional".
Namaste (which I offer first, in deepest respect),
Kevin Cann |
Edited by - AYPforum on May 07 2011 7:24:13 PM |
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Yaming
Switzerland
112 Posts |
Posted - May 07 2011 : 11:15:01 PM
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quote:
Please consider me an empty vessel that knows nothing about mantras,
so that I may learn more from someone who is extremely well versed.
well maybe read the lessons that discuss the mantra that we use here. Maybe if you have a clearer question it would be easier to answer. ^^
Yaming |
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kevincann
USA
335 Posts |
Posted - May 08 2011 : 12:53:28 AM
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Ah. Ok. Fair enough.
I'm interested in the science. I'm interested in variations. I'm interested in what others
do and their experience. I guess I was looking to have my imagination fired up.
I have read all the lessons on meditation. I have practiced the AYP method. I bought
the book.
Here is what happens when I do I am:
1) I sit in my usual position.
2) I monitor my breath, to make sure it is in the appropriate pattern, as it generally is.
3) I look at my nervous system, to ensure there are no blocks i can see (they are still there
sometimes obviously)
4) I lean into the silence and feel ecstasy.
5) I break the silence by putting "I AM" into it.
6) I repeat "I AM". I use intention to ensure i do not ponder the mantras meaning.
7) I repeat "I AM", without losing focus on it. It continues to disrupt the silence.
8) I become a machine, endlessly repeating "I AM".
9) Very rapidly there is no kevin left, just the machine, the process, the part of
the flow that is repeating "I AM".
10) After about 3 minutes, time and space disappears, there is only unity consciousnes.
I break the mediation at this time, so I do not risk an unwanted excursion.
Another time, I did the same meditation, but this time i did not use "I AM".
I did the exact same thing, except I just listened to the existing silence.
I got the same result. After about 3 minutes there was unity consciousness.
Another time, i used the old mantra "Rama". The results were the same, except this
time there was also an increased activation of the throat and brow chakras.
There are so many talented and impressive individuals on this forum,
I'd love to have a conversation on a subject that is not my strength.
That's why the general, non-pointed prior question; it was a
"fishing question".
Thanks very kindly,
Kevin |
Edited by - kevincann on May 08 2011 01:24:13 AM |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - May 08 2011 : 02:05:46 AM
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The purpose of the mantra is to distract the mind so that inner silence will come out. I can see you tend to over think things, as we all do, and that is exactly why we use the mantra.
When the inner silence emerges, the tendency to over think things tends to subside. Meditation with the mantra has to be done twice a day, for around 15 minutes each to have an effect that progresses. You mention that saying the mantra breaks the silence, so does that mean there are no thoughts in this silence? If so, great! that's very rare. If you can "lean into the silence and feel ecstasy" for 15 minutes without a mantra, then i see no reason for it. But most of us will have thoughts pop up, and that's what the mantra is for.
Remember, you are not repeating the mantra out loud, only in your mind.
Twice daily practices consistently over a long time are at the core of AYP, and quitting after 3 minutes won't do. Less thinking; more meditation.
Best of luck. |
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Yaming
Switzerland
112 Posts |
Posted - May 08 2011 : 02:18:21 AM
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quote:
4) I lean into the silence and feel ecstasy.
well i you can just go into silence without problems, I don't really see a reason to practice the mantra meditation. The meditation is here to lead us into silence and purify the nervous system. And as practice goes on the silence should come into our daily life.
Well, I'm not really suited to discuss it, as I am at the very beginning of the path and the expression "silence" is for me still not clear, as I did not experience it. I feel like I can intellectually grasp it, but that will lead me nowehere. Experience is the true knowledge. ;)
Maybe some other people will join the discussion who actually have something to say. ^^
Yaming |
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Yaming
Switzerland
112 Posts |
Posted - May 08 2011 : 02:43:19 AM
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Oh I just read this in a different thread:
quote:
written by Yogani
Hi Rajeev:
Must one STOP thoughts to be become SILENT?
No. Silence emerges within thoughts from daily practice of deep meditation. Silence will be there with or without thoughts. Abiding inner silence (the witness) is independent of all mental activity, or the absence of it.
Is SILENCE a stage of NO THOUGHTS?
It can be, but is not dependent on no thoughts. It is a natural condition cultivated in deep meditation. It has been called a 4th state of consciousness (turiya), independent of waking, dreaming and deep sleep states of consciousness.
Is SILENCE a stage of CONTROLLED THOUGHTS?
No.
Is SILENCE a stage of QUIETING THOUGHTS?
It can be in deep meditation and then later in daily activity, but not always, as per the above.
These things are best understood through direct experience. Practice daily deep meditation and you will find out.
The intellect cannot substitute for meditation. The only useful purpose the intellect serves in this is getting us to our meditation seat twice each day.
so if silence can be present with thoughts, you shouldn't be really disrupting the silence when you start focusing on the mantra. Correct me if I am wrong. Which leads me to the thought, that what you call silence, might be different then what others here call silence? ^^ Oh well, that's always the fun with language, you never really know if we are all talking about the exact same thing. You can just say yeah it feels like the other person is saying the same. 
Just an idea.
Yaming |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4429 Posts |
Posted - May 08 2011 : 03:32:51 AM
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Hi Kevincann,
Try to practice as it is laid out in the lessons. If you can, sit for 15 or 20 minutes using the mantra, and do not stop your meditation after 3 minutes. You won't gain anything by stopping after 3 minutes. Also try to resist the temptation to judge states of consciousness, that is just a trick of the mind. So try to avoid thinking, "Oh, now I am in unity consciousness, I can stop my meditation". Thoughts like that do not arise in unity, after all, in unity there is no-one to stop anything.
As Yaming pointed out, in meditation, silence is not the absence of sound, or thought. So you cannot disturb silence with a mantra. Silence surrounds all sound and all thought. It is the depth of samadhi out of which everything arises, and which is never touched by what arises from it.
Make sure you have read lesson 13 carefully, especially the part about letting the mantra become quiet and fuzzy, naturally. That is often the point where the mantra begins to fade and samadhi begins to take over. Then who would want to stop their meditation? 
Enjoy,
Christi |
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kevincann
USA
335 Posts |
Posted - May 08 2011 : 11:05:40 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Christi
Hi Kevincann,
Try to practice as it is laid out in the lessons. If you can, sit for 15 or 20 minutes using the mantra, and do not stop your meditation after 3 minutes. You won't gain anything by stopping after 3 minutes. Also try to resist the temptation to judge states of consciousness, that is just a trick of the mind. So try to avoid thinking, "Oh, now I am in unity consciousness, I can stop my meditation". Thoughts like that do not arise in unity, after all, in unity there is no-one to stop anything.
As Yaming pointed out, in meditation, silence is not the absence of sound, or thought. So you cannot disturb silence with a mantra. Silence surrounds all sound and all thought. It is the depth of samadhi out of which everything arises, and which is never touched by what arises from it.
Make sure you have read lesson 13 carefully, especially the part about letting the mantra become quiet and fuzzy, naturally. That is often the point where the mantra begins to fade and samadhi begins to take over. Then who would want to stop their meditation?
Enjoy,
Christi
Thanks very much for the input one and all.
I quit at 3 minutes, otherwise i gain the dualistic
sensation of leaving the body. That is the only
reason I stop. However sometimes, consciousness is
snuffed out entirely. I do not think about quitting,
my body quits for me. I do not rely on thought or
emotion in practice. Even intent is a shallow layer
I seldom use.
I see that, as a wiser man than myself said, i need
to spend 1/2 an hour on each question and each
response if necessary. I have somehow managed to
not communicate anything. I retract the question
for the time being.
Namaste,
Kevin Cann |
Edited by - kevincann on May 08 2011 11:10:22 AM |
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sharon_k
USA
8 Posts |
Posted - May 10 2011 : 9:41:26 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Etherfish
The purpose of the mantra is to distract the mind so that inner silence will come out.
That is really ONE aspect of it. It's use here is as a tool for Shamata or to induce inner calmness. A tool, like the breath. But mantras are simply not just that. Watching breath is to observe reality as it is. Reciting mantra, while observing it with awareness is also that AND more. It is also transformation of what one perceives as reality.
Also, traditional mantras are sonic representations of a particular energy or archetype. Reciting a mantra is to initially connect and access the grace of that entity, and to eventually "become" that entity. An example of that is the deity yoga of Vajrayana. Even in Advaita, grace is considered necessary and often mantra is recommended as a method to attract this grace aspect. And then there are specific mantras for specific purposes, mundane and spiritual. Traditional mantras are much more powerful in this sense on account of association with an enlightened lineage and the availability of a collective/group consciousness associated with it which becomes available through initiation and then strengthened through practice. A sound hrim or shrim, pronounced simply may induce calmness and silence. But when the same sound is received from a master, its rishi, devata, nyasa, mudra and mandala aspects are understood and practiced, one realizes the deity/archetype that is represented by the mantra and walks towards becoming the deity, which is nothing but a wave in a cosmic ocean named the Self/Brahman. This article may help understand better - http://bit.ly/kNDCbL
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Asking about Mantras
