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Vayu
USA
40 Posts |
 Posted - May 06 2011 : 01:30:32 AM
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Greetings, I have been reading and following the wonderful practices of AYP for the last few months. I offer my many thanks to Yogani and the members of this forum for the amazing discussions.
Somehow, I like SBP more than meditation itself since in meditation, I tend to get lost in random thoughts easily than doing SBP. Sometimes, SBP itself leads to a silent state, which has similar quality of what I experience in meditation. But i like both :)
Anyway, here is one of my recent observation:
When Im in meditation, im in a black, empty space, with no verbalized thoughts, with feelings of my body continuing in the background(it feels as if the body vibrates at a very high frequency but incredibly low intensity; almost as if im sensing the bloodflow throughout the body and can hear the sound of the flow of blood inside my body). Even if this feeling continues in the background, thoughts+visuals creeps in again after 4-10 seconds, and I try to return back to the empty space of no thoughts again. This repeats.
I noticed that if I keep my attention with what I mentioned above, I do not have verbalized thoughts for small periods of time(maybe 4-10 seconds). For example, even when im not meditating, if I bring all my focus to, lets say, the tip of my right index finger and continuously feel that area, the nerve endings are "activated" there and my mind remains there with no verbalized thoughts atleast for few seconds.
So, my question is:
Is remaining in such states of non-thinking the same or similar to what is understood by pure inner silence, even if awareness of parts of the body and nerve endings continue in the background with sounds of bloodflow and heartbeats?
Additionally, I noticed that even in daily life, when we perform any simple action, we are essentially in a similar state for small periods of time. For example, when we open a door knob, we do not verbalize our plan for it; we do not think: "Ok, I am going to apply this much force, at this location, at this angle, for this period of time." We, sort of, think all of that in a millionth of a second without verbalizing it. Another example is when we are walking or running, we do not verbalize our control to the legs(we do not say: "ok ill move the leg to 1.1 foot forward by contracting this muscle and relaxing that one"); we just do it. Yet another example is, when a ball is hurling towards our face, we do not sit down with a calculator and newtonian physics equations to figure out which way and how fast we should move our head; we know the rough answer immediately and do it in a fraction of a second.
So, in my understanding, I feel that we have this underlieing, burst, high-speed intelligence that is capable of incredible amount of calculation/intuition/feeling, on top of which, we have a layer of verbalization that we normally use for living, thinking, and being. In other words, verbalization feels like a huge overhead(unnecessary, extra packaging/load) going on when our underlieing intelligence(UI) has already thought moments before in a much shorter time. Its as if our underlieing intelligence already thinks a thought and then a fraction of a second later, we "word it out". For example, we might think "wow its so cold" in our head after we have already cognized that it is cold. But thinking that took a timespan of 3 seconds when our UI realized that in, say, .00000001 second. I feel like this intelligence is the very base of intuition, where thinking happens in quantum leaps/sudden creative bursts, and not in a slow logical way where all the steps have to be "thought out" and calculated step-by-step.
So, my main question is: Is meditation becoming aware/familier with this underlieing, super intelligence that is always there in the background, and is often "covered/hidden" away with our verbalized thoughts? Is this the quality of deep, spiritual, stillness? Because, if such is true, it will become clear to me what the basis/mechanics of awareness meditations, living in the present moment techniques, whole body sensation techniques are all about. It will genuinely help me progress spiritually with a better understanding of how the practices are working and fuel my bhakti even further.
Im not sure if im able to convey this subtle point. But I hope its clear enough. And thank you for reading :) |
Edited by - Vayu on May 06 2011 01:37:16 AM |
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manigma
India
1065 Posts |
Posted - May 06 2011 : 07:29:20 AM
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A similar question was asked by Tibetan_Ice few months ago:
What is inner silence?
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....OPIC_ID=7765
My answer is still the same.
When all the questions end.
PS: I like your name, Vayu.
Vayu, the air, is not visible but still is; it is not seen by the eye, nevertheless it is touching the eye each moment -- and the same is the situation with the supreme truth. It is not seen but it is touching us every moment. Vayu is very subtle. It is present before us; it is within us and without us. It is present in every cell of our body -- but not visible.
The Heartbeat of the Absolute
http://www.balbro.com/heart/beat1.htm |
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mikkiji
USA
219 Posts |
Posted - May 06 2011 : 10:03:08 AM
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Our subjective experience of awakening these higher states of consciousness might appear to be almost anything, mostly because these are new experiences, and we tend to grow into them as time goes on--in other words, they become more familiar, clearer and longer in duration so that we begin to appreciate more and different aspects about them. It's usually unnecessary to analyze, name and dissect these experiences--our subjective experiential intellect won't be able to integrate that sort of thing in any case. But the framework goes something like this:
The "silence" we may sometimes glimpse during periods of deep meditation is called "Turiya", which is the experience of pure consciousness. It is the background that underlies and transcends the three common states of consciousness--waking, dreaming, and dreamless sleep. It is said to be a state without any attributes at all--it can be experienced directly but not described or defined. However, Humans being who we are, we attempt to talk about it nonetheless. It may be perceived variously as undifferentiated consciousness (awareness not of any thing, but awareness aware of only itself, thus "Pure Awareness") or as a relationship with or connection to the Divine. Vedanta does give three appellations to Turiya: "Sat-Chit-Ananda". Sat means 'eternal' or 'absolute', Chit refers to 'consciousness' or 'awareness' and Ananda means 'bliss'. Put it together and you have a good description of this state of existence--Absolute Bliss Consciousness. You may not always FEEL this during brief moments of it glimpsed in your meditation, but, as I said, the more you practice over time and the more familiar you get, the more you can appreciate the form of the formless, the attributes of the attribute-less. Eventually, this state begins to sort of "seep out" of meditation into daily activity, so that even while in normal waking state, the silent bliss of the Eternal remains rooted in our self. Even in the blackness of dreamless sleep, this state of awareness is not lost. Then, the small 's' self once rooted in ego gives way to the big "S' Self of pure Being, and we enter the beginnings of samadhi, enlightenment, or, as the Buddha said so simply, "Being awake." In this fifth state of consciousness (sometimes called "Cosmic Consciousness"), the silent never-changing sat-chit-ananda of turiya becomes a witness to the active, outer ever-changing world of Relative existence--it is a state of duality in which the silence is permanently established in our awareness and sits apart from it, as a silent witness to it. But even then, evolution and development of consciousness continues, until the consciousness of the experiencing subject becomes one with the experienced object. This is Unity, in which Atman (individual soul) and Brahman (universal soul) become one.
Enjoy!
Michael |
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Vayu
USA
40 Posts |
Posted - May 06 2011 : 11:43:37 AM
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Thank you Manigma and Michael for the answers. Yes, both of you are right: I should continue practicing and the very question Im asking will be answered to me one day through direct experience. So, I should continue playing with meditation. I going to reread the lessens/posts on AYP-style yoga nidra and try that. I remember it being a slightly different technique than the normal kind which I sometimes practice. I remember it being like Samyama. Anyway, ill reread that and continue practicing. Thanks for the quick reply.
And Manigma, yea I wasn't sure what my user ID should be. So, I just chose one of the 5 elements, hehe. Especially its summer now, and the nice, smooth breeze every now and then feels amazing. Its kind of crazy how simple things like that can feel so good. |
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manigma
India
1065 Posts |
Posted - May 07 2011 : 09:21:08 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Vayu
And Manigma, yea I wasn't sure what my user ID should be. So, I just chose one of the 5 elements, hehe. Especially its summer now, and the nice, smooth breeze every now and then feels amazing. Its kind of crazy how simple things like that can feel so good.
I watched 'The Last Airbender' with my son yesterday night.
The best part was the End credits. It had the Tai Chi and Shaoiln moves so beautifully presented and synced with the music that I almost cried.
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jeff
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - May 07 2011 : 10:10:21 AM
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Vayu,
I appreciate your post. Your experience is similar to mine. You are basically experiencing meditation in life. Those 4-10 second periods will expand as you maintain awareness. That is what is described as "being in the moment". The "trying to word it out" is the ego/mind. Try not to chase the "word it out". You will notice that it dies out if you don't give it energy. I have also found it helpful to feel the energy during those moments and extend the time. At first, it seemed I almost had to fight for the quiet, but after a while it becomes the natural state.
The silence grows  |
Edited by - jeff on May 07 2011 12:25:12 PM |
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Vayu
USA
40 Posts |
Posted - May 10 2011 : 10:16:30 PM
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Thanks for the replies.
Jeff, by feeling the energy to extend the time of silence, do you mean the subtle light vibrational silence that is going on in the background? I noticed the same thing too; its almost as if they are directly related(being in silence causes the vibrational effect to go on in the whole body; and just putting awareness in anybody part causes the same vibration, which in turn causes silence in the mind). It feels like this subtle vibration is almost all throughout my whole body too, but very vague/subtle.
Just a while back, keeping the mind still/silent was an abstract concept to me too. But Im glad that I now know what the general direction of meditation should be. Its such a smooth, relaxed feeling and it feels kinda good, and I think that this vibrational silence might be the essense of the much more noticable episodes of bliss that we might go through in life. So, I feel that if I keep practicing AYP, I will be addressing the very source from which bliss radiates, and dissolve into that very bliss. Amazing!
Many thanks for clarifying my question. You guys are great. :) |
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jeff
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - May 10 2011 : 10:45:18 PM
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Vayu,
The vibrations follow your awareness. Or, the vibrations are always there, it is just a question of you noticing it. Spread your awareness over your whole body and you can feel vibrations all over. As you have found, the key is quieting the mind and paying attention.
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Vayu
USA
40 Posts |
Posted - May 11 2011 : 12:07:33 PM
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| I see; so its always there in the background. Its just a matter of noticing it. Thanks Jeff. |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - May 11 2011 : 12:34:58 PM
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In my experience, inner silence is completely void of all attributes/qualities.
Your mileage may vary. 
Love!
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maheswari
Lebanon
2516 Posts |
Posted - May 11 2011 : 2:47:28 PM
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ok frankly i dont have the patience to read the thread ...but its title made me think... silence is silence how can it have attributes??....u have a nice name Vayu |
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Vayu
USA
40 Posts |
Posted - May 12 2011 : 10:55:13 PM
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| I see. So, I guess when a beginner like me just starts this path, the silence is first identified at the first stage to have a vibrational quality with no inner dialog/voice going on. And as progress is made, and deeper levels of meditations are experienced, the true silence is identified, which is just pure silence without any quality(vibrational or otherwise). Thanks for the clarification. |
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maheswari
Lebanon
2516 Posts |
Posted - May 13 2011 : 02:10:38 AM
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| Vayu dont think that you are a beginner...thinking that we have limitations is the biggest limitation....just Be ...do your practice without reflecting and thinking too much...all the best |
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jeff
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - May 13 2011 : 12:00:14 PM
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Vayu,
Think of the vibrations and silence separately. Not everyone notices the vibrations. As you quiet your mind (or grow in silence), you have less mental distractions and notice other stuff. Vibrations are part of the "other stuff" going on in the world. Paying attention to the vibrations is not part of the AYP path, but may be helpful to you. It means that your mind is quiet. In some paths they do it instead (or addition) of a mantra.
It is all good. Your silence is growing |
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kevincann
USA
335 Posts |
Posted - May 13 2011 : 12:13:21 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by jeff
Vayu,
Think of the vibrations and silence separately. Not everyone notices the vibrations. As you quiet your mind (or grow in silence), you have less mental distractions and notice other stuff. Vibrations are part of the "other stuff" going on in the world. Paying attention to the vibrations is not part of the AYP path, but may be helpful to you. It means that your mind is quiet. In some paths they do it instead (or addition) of a mantra.
It is all good. Your silence is growing
Excellent observation Jeff.
For folks who practice an eight limbs of yoga path, that centers on Kundalini say, yes, indeed, the vibrations are the mantra.
At the first, as with Tantra (from which Kundalini) springs, it is easy to become obsessed with the scenery (the kundalini vibrations).
But any full practice weans you from identifying with form, even if it be form that is 1 atom separate from undifferentiated awareness.
I would say that the AYP approach is superior overall.. by not looking under the hood too much. But however, some people need to become smitten with the scenary, to get pulled away from the world.
It is replacing one poison with another.. but so long as a guru, or the inner guru is in charge, this can also be a valid path, for those who need it.
Lovely post.
Kevin |
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Vayu
USA
40 Posts |
Posted - May 14 2011 : 4:05:56 PM
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Thank you everyone for clarifying my situation/questions. As all of you have explained, I now understand that the subtle vibrations always going on all the time in the background throughout the whole body is NOT the silence, but something that becomes more visible to us as we calm the mind and begin to approach silence. So, the whole subtle body vibrations are one of the many scenaries that will appear as I go inward towards the real silence. Thank you.
After getting clarifications from all of you, I revisited the lessons and threads relating to losing the mantra and going back to it. This has been extremely helpful. But a slightly new confusion has come up. When I silently think the mantra "I AM", it has a really nice, smooth, soft, and vibrant quality. Is the objective to let this feeling happen for about 5-15 seconds, and when this feeling is lost or we become aware that the mantra hasnt been thought of for a while, we return back to the mantra? I know that we should lose the mantra(which cultivates purification) and come back to the process of favoring the mantra(allowing it to refine/become fuzzy over time). But what should be done to lose the mantra? Currently, I can only lose it if I pay attention to the vibrational feeling of the mantra(not the background body vibration I spoke about earlier in the thread) for a while and it disappears, signaling me that I have lost the mantra. Is this a good approach to lose the mantra? In one of the threads, Christi has mentioned that there is a space of silence between each iteration of mantra which should be noticed and in the lessons, Yogani also mentioned that we are after "the profound vibratory quality of the sound." So, my question is: is it ok if the mantra is causing both things at the stage I am at this time? That is, is it ok if the mantra causes both silence and a vibrational effect, and I focus on these two things until I lose the mantra? This is because right now, I can't really differentiate between these two and the vibrational effect of the mantra, coupled with no verbal thoughts, is the closest experience of what I understand to be silence. But I think that if I go on practicing AYP, a stage will come where I will be clearly be able to differentiate between silence and vibrational effect of the mantra, and the my attempt to practice DM will become more aligned with what the actual practice of DM is supposed to be. Does this seem right? Thank you.
Thank you. |
Edited by - Vayu on May 14 2011 4:17:43 PM |
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jeff
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - May 14 2011 : 10:56:46 PM
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Vayu,
Yes, it is fine. Maybe letting it linger is a better way of describing it. You want to let go of it. Kind of like throwing a leaf in the wind. |
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Medea
Netherlands
115 Posts |
Posted - May 15 2011 : 05:07:49 AM
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Hi Vayu,
I'm also reading up on inner silence, and I found this thread extremely helpful: http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....Terms=losing the mantra
There are some very interesting comments from Christi and JDH in it on how to experience inner silence during DM and Samyama. |
Edited by - Medea on May 15 2011 05:21:06 AM |
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maynard
USA
23 Posts |
Posted - May 21 2011 : 5:27:18 PM
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| Try sensing what lies beneith the vibrations while in meditation. The vibrations are like a barrier between the physical world, your body, and the realm of the unmanifested, the silence. |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - May 22 2011 : 07:51:45 AM
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There are no attributes or qualities. Silence is that which was always and is always. It is the true state, although it is not a state at all, it is not becoming because it already is. It is the fundamental from which all awareness springs and cannot be known.
It's like becoming Love, if that were possible, then Love ceases to exist.
As has been said many times, everything experienced is scenery, enjoy it and let it go. There will be lots of it. You are always doing exactly what is right at any one moment and your inner Guru will guide you. |
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Attributes/Qualities of Inner Silence?
