|
|
 |
|
| Author |
 Topic  |
|
nearoanoke
USA
525 Posts |
 Posted - Mar 23 2006 : 11:05:48 PM
|
This is to people here who have been practising Yoga since long (> 5 years or so). I just want to know some interesting experiences you had, ones that really proved to you that Yoga (meditation, pranayama etc..) works.
Things like energy movements, miracles or some "concrete" changes etc... |
Edited by - AYPforum on Feb 07 2007 09:56:21 AM |
|
|
Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Mar 24 2006 : 01:05:24 AM
|
Miracle: I've had very very bad things happen lately that didn't much rock my world. And I've had very very good things happen lately that didn't much rock my world.
To my inner glow of awareness, both huge swings seemed barely shrug-worthy - even insubstantial. And yet I'm not at all blase.
Yoga is like slowly waking up from a bad dream. |
Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Mar 24 2006 01:07:15 AM |
 |
|
|
Richard
United Kingdom
857 Posts |
Posted - Mar 24 2006 : 05:15:19 AM
|
Seconded Jim. I have been going through some very difficult times lately and I know I would not have been able to cope in the same way if the inner silence had not been present.
RICHARD |
|
|
|
Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Mar 24 2006 : 4:50:56 PM
|
Me three!
I have been going through some times lately that for me are as difficult as things get and because of all the inner-silence, I am returning to feeling centered, content and my self more quickly than ever before. I also notice my personal relationships with people have become a lot smoother and more enjoyable. I feel a great deal more empathy and compassion for others, I understand more intuitively than before what and why they are feeling the way they do. I am more firmly established in the here and now and don't want to lose my connection with that.
The above is the most important part for me. In addition, energy moving through the body shows me the power and effectiveness of yoga practices and makes me realize something profound is happening. Seeing how the energy flow changes and matures over time does this as well. The practices have also changed my physical perceptions of the world around me and I feel ecstatic currents in my spinal nerve that were more scattered around the various nadis and chakras a year ago. |
|
|
|
Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Mar 24 2006 : 5:18:37 PM
|
Me four.. I had never realized how easy it would be to deal with life if there was inner silence. Everything that was a big deal once.. is just a drop in the ocean now. I wont say I don't get upset.. I do.. but it is easier to get out of that hole.. center myself. I see things differently.. I still haven't figured out what is different about them, but they are in some way different.. I have played my sitar for years.. but now when I play it.. my entire inside vibrates with the sound.. As I said in one of my other posts.. I feel like a teenager.. falling in love for the first time.
Hey Near, of course I don't have 5 years or more of meditation under my belt.. this has happened in a year.. Not bad huh?
PS: Just thought I would share something else that has been a direct result of AYP practices. Few months back.. my kids sat me down and gave me a present. They said.. "mommy we were saving this for your b'day.. but since you have been so good to us lately.. we have to give this to you now". Need I say more |
Edited by - Shanti on Mar 24 2006 8:43:51 PM |
|
|
|
Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Mar 24 2006 : 6:39:09 PM
|
Me five. . .I have been meditating for over five, but before AYP only minimal results= less stress etc. Much bigger results here, and the biggest plus is it takes way less time than what I was doing before!
The effects on my life are the same as people mentioned above; ability to handle very stressful things. i love my job as it has a lot of freedom and variety, but I would have quit if it weren't for AYP because sometimes it has humungous stress. I'm put in a position where I am asked to do the impossible, and hurry at it! Sometimes I have to jump through so many hoops in a row just to get the simplest sounding things done. My job is mostly problem solving, and it's not uncommon for me to feel like God is F-ing with me. I methodically isolate the problem, then a whole series of events will happen, each one making me throw out everything i've done and start over, all the while being diplomatic with the customer, and acting like everything is normal. A few years ago I would have decided that nothing is worth that much stress, and quit for an easier job. But I used to have an easier job, and I was bored with it, and wanted a challenge!
So for me, this type of meditation is essential for me to live the way I want to. Sometimes I will get up too late and miss my morning meditation, and on the way to work I'll feel a little stress from driving in traffic. I decide with conviction that I'm NOT going to allow myself to get stressed during the day. I'm usually able to keep it very low, but if I had done the meditation I would just shrug everything off.
I've noticed that my faith in God has gotten much stronger, and I am able to use it to "get me out" of really bad circumstances. |
|
|
|
weaver
832 Posts |
Posted - Mar 24 2006 : 9:18:01 PM
|
Hi Near,
I'm not sure if this is the type of answer you are looking for, but you mention concrete changes and things that really proved that Yoga works. I find my consciousness or awareness to be more and more concrete since I started AYP, and the impact of external things less and less concrete. That includes the processes going on in the mind, they seem to be less significant, instead there is a calm or stability behind this that becomes more significant. Together with this the borderlines between what seems to be important for me versus for others start to become more diffuse, and this makes life more pleasant to live.
This inner silence, which all above mention too, is considered in AYP to be the first stage of enlightenment. I consider this proof that Yoga works. |
|
|
|
cosmic_troll
USA
229 Posts |
Posted - Mar 25 2006 : 02:06:23 AM
|
I'm with Ether... my faith in God is much stronger than before. I get scattered tastes of ecstatic bliss, and generally feel more calm and peaceful in daily life.
I also get a lot of scenery, like Melissa mentioned, which I almost never got before AYP. Vibrations in the third eye, electrical currents in the spine, brief moments of witnessing, etc... |
|
|
|
Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Mar 26 2006 : 01:41:29 AM
|
oh yeah, i ignored the part about proof. Before regular meditation I had this recurring inner feeling like something was unresolved, something was wrong, there was something I had to do for some unknown reason, and it was important. Now that's almost all gone. I've made great strides in that direction since AYP style meditation. Most of the time I feel like everything is OK. I knew that the feeling was an inner problem, but didn't know what to do about it.
Also, when I said I have more faith in God; i'm not a religious person. It's not connected with any kind of dogma or scripture. I just feel God as a sort of connection, and I "know" somehow that everything will be OK. There are times however, that my mind doesn't know that, and I have to kind of 'push' it to accept that fact, but with regular meditation I have much more confidence in my ability to push my mind in that direction. |
|
|
|
Alvin Chan
Hong Kong
407 Posts |
Posted - Mar 26 2006 : 05:22:20 AM
|
A very interesting topic for me, Nearoanoke. But most replies here doesn't seem "concrete" enough. May be it's not usually that concrete? I've just started for 4 months (not the > 5 years group you want). The most "concrete" change is my ability to do strict Brahmacharya, something I tried and failed hard back to the days when I was a Christian. But it's not the most valuable change, which are more on the psychological level. I would like more "concrete" things to prove to me that yoga works too, but finally I prefer more helpful stuffs. Ideally, I want changes that are both "concrete"/miracle as well as helpful
Also, to serve as evidences that yoga works, the "concrete" things are better those which are "concrete" not just to the practioner, but to the others. Stopping of heart beats is in such catagory. Not very useful on its own right, but very convincing if you can do it. Anyone here can do that? |
Edited by - Alvin Chan on Mar 26 2006 06:59:08 AM |
|
|
|
Frank-in-SanDiego
USA
363 Posts |
Posted - Mar 26 2006 : 09:27:11 AM
|
Hari Om
~~~~~~~
Hello,
My experiences are around new Ahhh-haa's. More insights in to the workings and understanding of this creation. More comprehesion and insights that are now blossoming into spiritual experiences - e.g. from Janana Yoga, driven by Raj yoga, converted to daily insights that make sense, yet are very profound ( for me ).
I try and pass them on to AYP. I understand some are interested , some not, and some just wonder what the heck I am talking about ((( ))). No worries, its very enjoyable to write about the play and display of this creation. I have been taught for many years that knowledge+action brings achievement and finally the fulfillment of Moksha. Knowledge is directly coupled with Moksha.
I am seeing this more and more for me...for this round of life, its a Janana Yoga driven experience vs the meditative. Raj Yoga provides the 'raw materials' - yet the experiences are fueled by readings, observations and connecting the dots that come as cognitions, without trying. Just staying 'aware' and on auto pilot, things come. For this I believe I am blessed.
Aham Brahmasmi(Br.U. 1.4.10)
agnir satyam rtam brhat
Frank in San-Diego
|
Edited by - Frank-in-SanDiego on Mar 26 2006 10:06:11 AM |
|
|
|
Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Mar 26 2006 : 11:25:15 AM
|
Alvin wrote:
"But most replies here doesn't seem "concrete" enough."
That's why science has never validated these things; they're not concrete.
The reason is that the science of Yoga does not produce repeatable and verifiable results.
The reason is that everyone's path is different. The world is illusion, and everyone sees it slightly differently. We are able to talk about the illusion only because there are parts that we all see somewhat the same. People disagree a lot because there is a lot we don't see the same. Yoga is a means of viewing and changing that illusion.
Since each person's world of illusion looks different to that person,
there can be no concrete evidence that looks the same to everyone.
In the later stages of consciousness evolution we have the ability to gain siddhis that could convince a scientific person of the validity of our practice. But at that stage we see that the siddhis are counterproductive to our further evolution, and wouldn't help bring anyone else along on our path which is seen as the most important achievement, so they are rarely displayed.
There IS concrete evidence for the efficacy of the practices however,
but it can only be found within yourself, by continuing the practices!
Then you will see why it can't be communicated to the scientific community as long as they worship the scientific method. |
|
|
|
Frank-in-SanDiego
USA
363 Posts |
Posted - Mar 26 2006 : 1:21:14 PM
|
Hari Om
~~~~~~~
quote:
Originally posted by Alvin Chan
But most replies here doesn't seem "concrete" enough.
Hello Alvin,
You ask a reasonable question.... The experiences are qualitative and quantitative.
If you care to do research on the quantitative side, the TM organization has conducted over 300 scientific
Studies on the yield of practicing meditation.
I mention this NOT to argue or support the TM movement or their findings, its not worth the BTU's expended,
but they are the only ones that took the time and effort to quantify the benefits -- www.tm.org
I have read the studies… all statistically valid. You make the call on what you chose to digest/debate.
On the qualitative side, or the inner experience…this is the softer side and usually will not meet your 'concrete' requirement for a while. Why do I say this? When someone comes forward and chooses
to demonstrate a siddhi to your level of interest and need, the discussions will remain on the softer side.
We now take the conversation to ' …oh, people that have that ability will not demonstrate it openly'. Yes, I concur but would think over time ( loooooooooooooooong time) when it may be common place, then you may see this, but don't hold your breadth
agnir satyam rtam brhat
Frank in San-Diego
|
|
|
|
NagoyaSea
424 Posts |
Posted - Mar 26 2006 : 1:50:07 PM
|
Alvin,
You might be interested in the studies done by major universities with the assistance of the Dalai Lama. It includes the University of Wisconsin, Harvard, Princeton and more are/were participating.
The Dalai Lama has allowed several of his monks who meditate regularly to be studied while meditating. Those poor guys have to meditate while being hooked up to electrodes, while in an MRI, etc. Studies indicate there is quite a physiological change in the brain during meditation and that the physiological change continues after meditation ends!!! Their conclusion is that it produces permenant results in our nervous systems. Very interesting stuff.
Here is a link to one article from 2005:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...005Jan2.html
Kathy |
|
|
|
Lavazza
69 Posts |
Posted - Mar 26 2006 : 3:21:22 PM
|
I have only been dabbling with spinal breathing and IAM medition (IAM is the name of a French rap group I listemned to alot 10 years ago, btw), so that has not changed anything for me. I have been to two ashtanga retreats and after that I have stopped feeling angry at my ex-wife and have started to wish her well instead.
I think that amaroli has brought me more flexibility, health and hair growth, but I do not know for sure.
|
|
|
|
Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Mar 26 2006 : 5:05:36 PM
|
I require nothing more concrete than peace and happiness. Concrete things have never proven satisfying. And I'm quite sure that stopping my heart, levitating, or walking on water would be no more satisfying than a really nice car. I'm through with climbing ladders and chasing goals. I decline to make yoga another ladder, another goal, another "thing to get good at" or another brass ring to grab at.
This sounds totally self-righteous and preachy (to the point of cliche), I know. But I mean it from the depths of my heart. |
|
|
|
Alvin Chan
Hong Kong
407 Posts |
Posted - Mar 29 2006 : 12:32:00 AM
|
I'm aware that there are quite a number of scientific researches on meditation. For these, I am more convinced by the researches on Dalai Lama and also his very famous students, Matthieu Ricard, who was a Ph.D. student in molecular biology. They are much more objective (done by a third party) than those of TM.
On the other hand, the TM meditation is closer (nearly the same) to the AYP meditation. While researches on the Tibets is promising, that tradition is not very suitable for modern people with a busy life.
The researches on yoga seems to reach only the two (traditional) ends of the practices of yoga: meditation and asanas. I am not aware of any amirable researches on pranayama.
Jim, the concern of concrete things is not whether they are satisfying or not. You're right, they are not satisfying. But they serve a different purposes. Suppose you want to learn to play Chinese Chess. You care very much about how well you can play it eventually, and you have your freedom and resources to choose any teachers in the world. What will you look at? Some proofs that teacher is a great one: may be he/she's a champion, may be he/she explains very well and knows English. Anyway, when you pick your teacher, you base your choice on some very external factors which are not the ultimate results you want. BUt they convince you, though never without doubt, that you can learn well from that teacher. You are forced to make some choices on your teacher, although ultimately it's YOUR skills which matters, not his.
So, people who are not already doing yoga have good reasons to ask for proofs before they enter. Certainly they can try on their own, and they will have to, eventually. That's what matters, finally. But some concrete, objective results will be very helpful in initiating their first step.
May be you don't need those proofs. But the others do. |
Edited by - Alvin Chan on Mar 29 2006 12:48:54 AM |
|
|
|
Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Mar 29 2006 : 07:43:41 AM
|
While there's nothing wrong with that approach, the problem with it is 1) The best teacher for you may not have any proof, and 2) The list of things you are looking for may be incomplete. In other words you may find later that there is something way more important than the things on your list.
Not to discourage your pursuit, but intuition helps also. |
|
|
|
Alvin Chan
Hong Kong
407 Posts |
Posted - Mar 29 2006 : 10:09:10 AM
|
Ether wrote:
quote:
2) 2) The list of things you are looking for may be incomplete. In other words you may find later that there is something way more important than the things on your list.
Good insight. But we have to start somewhere, right? Along the path we may be drawn to something else. But it's also important to know what you're doing (may be roughly) before you do it. Agree? Otherwise it's very dangerous.....
quote:
1) The best teacher for you may not have any proof
Yes. But we will try to find the best we can reach and according to our own understanding. Again that's the best thing we can do. Will you pick someone who, as far as you know, know very little about what you are trying to learn? Specifically in yoga, I think we tend to follow those who has many years of experiences and whose teachings are inspiring and make sense(like Yogani). While following anyone completely and blindly is never good, all of us here are choosing our teachers and practices in some ways---may be unconsciously.
Unconsciously--that agrees with the "intuition" you mentioned. Intuition is not a magic, nor is it the opposite of rational thinking. It's a kind of hidden, quick/automatic responses, which are supported by our past experiences. So in some sense it's close to being rational!! But it could be wrong sometimes. By "wrong" I mean a mis-judgement that something is good for you while it's not. It could happen, right?
Diet is a good example: we tend to enjoy unhealthy food. So if you follow your intuition without knowledge, you may be eating a lot of foods which are harmful for you in the long run, despite the immeditate pleasure from enjoying them. Now where do we get those commonsense about what food is healthy? Mostly on observable experiences of those who go before us, and by many food-science experiments. We don't base our conclusion on asking how healthy people think they themselves are--that's too subjective. We look at how healthy they really are, on various parameters like blood pressure, blood sugar level, cholesteral, diseases, etc. It's not complete. But much better (and useful) than a subjective evaluation.
Then all these kownledge become our commonsenses gradually. It's very scientific behind. And we should not take it for granted. Now we all know smoking is bad for our health. But some years ago, this fact is not obvious at all. And people are naturally drawn to it, too. If you act according to your feeling and without much analysis, you will bring yourself misery without even knowing that. So it really depends on what you mean by "intuition". If it means making use of your unconscious mind intellectually and selectively, guiding it rationally, then I can only agree. And it's part of a scientific approach, too.
Alvin |
|
|
|
Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Mar 29 2006 : 11:07:16 AM
|
quote:
[i] Jim, the concern of concrete things is not whether they are satisfying or not. You're right, they are not satisfying. But they serve a different purposes. Suppose you want to learn to play Chinese Chess. You care very much about how well you can play it eventually, and you have your freedom and resources to choose any teachers in the world. What will you look at? Some proofs that teacher is a great one: may be he/she's a champion, may be he/she explains very well and knows English. Anyway, when you pick your teacher, you base your choice on some very external factors which are not the ultimate results you want. BUt they convince you, though never without doubt, that you can learn well from that teacher. You are forced to make some choices on your teacher, although ultimately it's YOUR skills which matters, not his.
Alvin, if I'm looking for proof that a headache pill is effective, I look for an end to my headache. If I'm looking for proof that a language school is effective, I look for fluency in the language.
I'm doing yoga for peace and insight, and that's exactly the promise of AYP.
One might gather some faith that this method works by observing the peace and insight of the teacher and of other students. And one can gain certainty as you more and more experience it yourself. If Yogani or any of the others here at any point had walked on water, I'd nod, say "hey, cool trick!" and not be persuaded one bit one way or another. 'Cuz walking on water's just not what I'm going for.
If walking on water, etc etc, are what you're going for (I don't think it is), you came to the wrong place. Nobody's claiming it, nobody's doing it, nobody cares about it. There are other traditions where such promises are made. Is it true? Shrug. Who cares? For the first time in 42 years, I feel happy and peaceful nearly all the time. And I was so far from that a few years ago that I honestly didn'nt consider happiness possible or even necessarily desireable. Levitation is for amateurs. |
Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Mar 29 2006 11:10:23 AM |
|
|
|
Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Mar 29 2006 : 11:14:27 AM
|
Jim.....I love it!!!!
quote:
Levitation is for amateurs
*Still laughing*
May all your Nows be Here |
|
|
|
david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Mar 29 2006 : 11:32:09 AM
|
Hello Alvin,
many of my experiences parallel those of other people here.
I might have some concrete things for you. My first experience with mantra yoga produced profound changes immediately, but many of them were of the type that you are not so interested in hearing right now. Apart from being easier to get along with and more compassionate, and less disturbed by disturbances, I'll mention another that has not been mentioned yet exactly --- a profound increase in clarity of mind.
Down to the 'concrete' stuff. I've always been a 'strong' meditator. I gained a lot, but made a number of mistakes too --- I may have considerably over-meditated for example for quite a number of years. (Self-pacing not in order.) If I had the benefit of a site such as this, that would not have happened. I moved into a sort of premature peak in my meditation experience a number of years ago.
There was one time when I felt myself moving into an extremely deep inner silence. I felt as if I did not need to breath at all, the slowing down of breath was so profound. I decided to time, for the record, my ability to hold my breath. I took a number of deep breaths, then meditated with held breath. I held my breath four four minutes without much effort. The important thing is 'without much effort'. I was not straining. I was calm all the way through, and there was no gasping at the end.
Now, if I remember correctly, this would have beaten a 'world record' in around 1900 for staying underwater. (Of course many Yogis have done better than this well before 1900, but they weren't recorded in 'world records'.)
This was some sort of peak/transition. Because of the plot of Wilder, in which Wilder finds the ability to run extremely fast, it's not hard to guess that Yogani has experienced some other externally convincing events. Maybe you should direct the question at him?
Go on, tell us Yogani. We've been good with our lessons all season, and we know that peak experiences are not the goal of Yoga. But tell us a personal story if you can.
|
Edited by - david_obsidian on Mar 29 2006 11:33:55 AM |
|
|
|
nearoanoke
USA
525 Posts |
Posted - Mar 29 2006 : 11:55:55 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by david_obsidian
There was one time when I felt myself moving into an extremely deep inner silence. I felt as if I did not need to breath at all, the slowing down of breath was so profound. I decided to time, for the record, my ability to hold my breath. I took a number of deep breaths, then meditated with held breath. I held my breath four four minutes without much effort. The important thing is 'without much effort'. I was not straining. I was calm all the way through, and there was no gasping at the end.
Now, if I remember correctly, this would have beaten a 'world record' in around 1900 for staying underwater.
This sounds interesting. So you did that in between your meditation (like once you are deep) or did it by holding breath at the beginning of a session? Were you able to repeat this? |
|
|
|
david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Mar 29 2006 : 12:05:40 PM
|
I did it by meditating with a held breath.
For a few days I was like this and could repeat it. Then the phenomenon faded away.
My breath is still very shallow during meditation, but never anything like it was for that brief period.
|
|
|
|
Alvin Chan
Hong Kong
407 Posts |
Posted - Mar 29 2006 : 12:47:18 PM
|
quote:
Alvin, if I'm looking for proof that a headache pill is effective, I look for an end to my headache.
That doesn't happen to me. Instead, if I don't have any evidence for something I believe in, I'll have headache. That's called blind faith. Direct experience is of course a kind of evidence, so I'm not saying that yours is blind faith. Only that if you don't have convincing objective evidence, you are more likely to attract only those who tends to have blind faith. (As I have said before, I'm not aware of any famous scientists practising meditation and yoga.) And I have to say I do have some personal experience. But we can always talk about more "concrete" evidences. They can really do something more than your personal experience. Agree? You keep talking about your personal experience which is rather vague in nature. Not that anyone can deny that. And they're certainly the most important thing you need. Just that we are not talking about the same thing: you are talking about the core of the journey, it's yours and only yours; and I am talking about the footprints (if any) which are not important, but show us the path and anyone can see them.
quote:
...Nobody's claiming it,
This part is wrong. Many scriptures, the great yogis, are claiming it. Only that we have so many interpretations for them to save their false (or at least exaggerated) claims.
David, it's interesting. And it's concete too. Did you hold your breath by closing the epiglottis? Or did you just stop the movement of your lung? They may be different, since by closing the epiglottis you can be sure you were using that one single breath throughout.
quote:
For a few days I was like this and could repeat it. Then the phenomenon faded away.
Do you mean you are not able to do it gradually? Or you just don't do it?
I also remember you said you notice your breath to determine how much rest you need after meditation. For me it's diffficult since noticing it will automatically bring some conscious control to it.
What about the Kechari and/or energy stuffs which I asked in another thread, if you remember? And if you are less busy now?
A yoga teacher of mine (the one who can do Kechari stage 3 without any snipping-- I've confirmed that he didn't cut with his teeth) said that practising Kechari will bring some peculiar and potentially dangerous results, like stopping of heart beat. But I can't quite believe in that. Many of you here are practising kechari, but anyone experience a stopping of heart beat? |
Edited by - Alvin Chan on Mar 29 2006 12:55:02 PM |
|
|
|
alan
USA
235 Posts |
Posted - Mar 29 2006 : 2:28:19 PM
|
| I haven't had my heart stop beating that I'm aware of, just some breath stoppage when in deep meditation. I think my pulse probably slows. From what I understand absorbtion in samadhi is liable to bring on a "suspended animation" whereupon the heart will need not beat due to the open-ended flow of Prana sustaining the organism. Anyone? |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
| AYP Public Forum |
© Contributing Authors (opinions and advice belong to the respective authors) |
|
|
|
|
What are your experiences from Yoga?
