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devrim
Thailand
33 Posts |
 Posted - Apr 09 2011 : 11:38:52 PM
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| As one gets more comfortable in various asanas where do you focus your attention? i find it useful to follow the breath as in spinal breathing, i feel no signs of overloading, i was wondering if any one has any comments ? |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Apr 10 2011 : 12:31:11 AM
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Hey Devrim,
Don't focus the attention. just be mindfull/aware of your body movements while doing the asanas. Your feet, hands, face, breath, hair, fingers, the touch of the ground under your feet...
And gently introduce the awareness, don't force yourself or make it a concentration task.
Love,
Ananda |
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HathaTeacher
Sweden
382 Posts |
Posted - Apr 10 2011 : 4:13:36 PM
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Namaste Devrim,
some yoga schools suggest concentration on the chakra stimulated by the asana, or points of concentration (drsti) such as the area in front of the nose. Whatever your practice, I think the wider whole-body awareness still shall be there at the same time, because if you're too one-pointed, your energy tends to get stuck in that point instead of flowing freely. |
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devrim
Thailand
33 Posts |
Posted - Apr 17 2011 : 08:46:31 AM
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| thank you Ananda and Hatha Teacher, asana are a wonderful way get people into yoga and start to develop inner awareness, your points are well taken and of course help to bring our awareness away from the external environment to the inner one, however my question was more concerned with spinal breathing and asana. if we mix these two practices together would it may our yoga practice more effective ? Blending some practices together seems to be used in the AYP approach, i was wondering if anyone had any experience with blending these two practices together ? For example your in the shoulder stand and you are following the breath as in the spinal breathing sitting practice, would this create more opening and purification in out nervous system ? |
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maheswari
Lebanon
2520 Posts |
Posted - Apr 18 2011 : 03:40:06 AM
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dont mix
in asanas do asanas only...be aware of your body moving...
in breathing do breathing only
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in raja yoga the 8 limbs are clear:asanas then paranayama...
asanas prepare you for pranayama...
why mixing...why rushing things?? |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Apr 18 2011 : 09:32:10 AM
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I have no experience in this area myself, but if you are under sensitive and interested in the subject you may experience with it yourself. But in case you're a sensitive yoga practitioner then it's best to stay away because it will lead into a lot of overloading symptoms.
Lesson 384 – Baseline Systems of Practice and Research on Modifications
http://www.aypsite.org/384.html
Under Sensitive
http://www.aypsite.org/366.html
Over Sensitive
http://www.aypsite.org/367.html
Love,
Ananda |
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Akasha
421 Posts |
Posted - Apr 18 2011 : 11:26:01 AM
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Spinal breathing with asanas other than sitting ones sounds a bit crazy...unless ,that is, you've worked up to that.
Take it in steps...asana,pranayam then meditation(like the eight steps of raja yoga) or in the case of AYP you work backwards -meditation,pranayam then asanaa assuming you have'nt done asanas before or maybe new to asana.
Combining practices makes them more powerful which means results are a lot less certain and could result in gooing too fast, i.e not self-pacing and issues that can result from that.
If you're new to SB then introducing for the first time in scorpion pose or head-stand is not AYP.
The AYP approach;-
DM
SBP
then asana
And to begin with at least the practices are kept separate in that order or sequence.
Any experimentation that deviates from the basic guidelines of AYP for your own sake is best done after you are sufficiently familiar with the AYP baseline system both in terms of knowledge and experience.
You can often get delayed effects too...where the cumulative effects build up.what might seem innocuous...i/e nothing much seems to be happening is sometimes not the case. Consider the analogy of a dam about to burst..... i had swarm of crown & thid-eye activty after doing yoni mudra kumbhaka , nothing negative thankfully but from what i could tell but actually quite pleasant and likely good openening ( approx. 18 months ago say) but just so you know these things can build up...
Some schools suggest a chakra focus when doing some asana but i believe it is more of a sideline practice or as a compliment to over-all awareness while in the asana.,,,there being other components breath,movement and the synchronisation of both..the letting go, the one-pointedness of mind etc.
Or say bhujangasana/cobra pose with the third-eye but i would'nt get too bogged down with too much detail to think.
You say blending is the ayp approach...well in the sense that it is a full-scope system yes but practices are not done at the same time but done separately specifically the core practices..Any thing else is your own research.although the results may be uncertain if you have'nt test-driven the base-line sufficiently.
I don't think i've had any negative effects from AYP other than re-circulating energies along similar or same channels. In that kind of scenario i think you (could) review your practice..see how it could be modified....to perhaps re-distribute the energies or gain more balance in that respect.
The only scenario where you could combine SBP with asana although they should be both powerful enough that they're probably best kept separately is where you had worked up to that, having explored both separately and then transitioned.But in terms of self-pacing and any chance you might be on the over-sensitive side of the spectrum it might be ill-advised.
Any crashes i've had one in particular right at the start were before coming to AYP, not after..i think.If/When you get a crash energies might just seem stuck for a while. |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Apr 18 2011 : 11:43:05 AM
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Hi Devrim and All 
Here's my two cents.....
Personally, I begin all my AYP classes with 2 minutes of simple breath watching. I am diligent in reminding practitioners not to control the breath during this time, but just to simply watch the breath entering the nostrils and filling up the lungs, then exiting the lungs through the nostrils. I find that this helps to center the awareness both in the body (specifically in the center of the chest) as well as in the moment. I then suggest to the practitioners, that if they notice the mind wandering during the asanas, they can redirect the attention back to the breath (like explained above) or to the sensations of stretching during a posture, whichever feels most natural to them. It can be very easy for the mind to wander during the asana practice, but if we continue to remind ourselves and our students to keep the awareness in the body, either by watching (but again, not actively controlling) the breath or by being aware of the sensations of stretching, then the awareness will stay both in the body and in the present moment. I think the most important instruction though, is to make sure that students understand that "breath watching" is not an active controlling of the breath.... it is simply watching the breath come in and go out as it naturally already is. I haven't had students overloading from breath watching during the asanas, but if that starts to happen for you, you could just remind students to bring their attention to the sensations of stretching instead of watching the breath.... that would likely help to smooth things out for them.
Best of luck!
Love!
P.S> I agree with others here in saying that doing SBP during the asanas is begging for trouble.  |
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Akasha
421 Posts |
Posted - Apr 19 2011 : 09:02:52 AM
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Dear Devrim ,
I have'nt said this already and i was meaning to so very sorry but Welcome to AYP & the forums.
You should find the 'Asanas, Mudras & bandhas' brown book to to the right interesting.
As a side-note ,I was actually looking for evidence of a posture that i thought i read somewhere( & perhaps tried exploring also) but i could be mistaken where you sit on one heel with your perineum and have the other leg outstretched while bending forward at the hips exhaling and inhaling while doing one round of spinal breathing with a little kumbhaka at the end as you maintain the forward fold.Now i could be mistaken , and i'm not sure if i encountered this minus the spinal breathing in the 'HathA Yoga Pradipika'also.
*Someone here might be able to clarify.---Is this mentioned in the little brown book?? *
I could be mistaken of course.
Suffice to say SB and asana is possible but you'll want plenty of purification to have occured already so as not to violate self-pacing. Also there is no need to double up in some belief that energies will open quicker. A good piece of advice i got which registered here is you cannot force an awakenining, whether that's of energies or bliss, specifically i'm thinking a K awakening.
Enjoy(& practice wisely)!!
The thing with opening is it can be razors edge you navigate, not always but sometimes.The keyword is always balance.
It's just a matter of being sensible.The practices on their own should have enough power in themselves that combining is not needed.
Love,
Akasha
P.S Carson makes an interesting point where he distinguishes watching/observing the breath with control and manipulation of it. This would seem to be a difference between prana-yama and meditation.One is doing with awareness, in the case of pranayam control and manipulation of prana.**That is one thing that would seem to distinguish meditation from pranayama**,. The other is simply awarenesss.A further sub-division within meditation could be seen as doing with an object,dharana or concentration and dyhana or meditation proper,complete self-absorbtion in the object/subject.-->leading to eventual samadhi. |
Edited by - Akasha on Apr 19 2011 09:17:03 AM |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Apr 19 2011 : 09:15:12 AM
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Hi Akasha
The posture you describe sounds like Maha Mudra to me.
Love!
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Akasha
421 Posts |
Posted - Apr 19 2011 : 09:21:01 AM
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Hi Carson,
Yip, that's what i thought.The HYP i'm pretty sure mentions it.
I could have sworn (Oooooops..... that's not very yogic eh is it?....lol) I had read about this movement/posture just like I tried to describe it with the perineum sitting on one of the heels and the other leg outstretched combined with one round of spinal breathing with a little kumbhaka in either the little brown book or elsehwere.
Thanks for your prompt response.
Lots of Love,
Akasha |
Edited by - Akasha on Apr 19 2011 09:46:54 AM |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Apr 19 2011 : 09:35:16 AM
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Hi Akasha
I don't remember what the HYP says in particular about Maha Mudra, nor can I say that I actually know the "proper" way to do it. All I really know is what happens here naturally and that I have been told that what I am doing is "Maha Mudra."
When MM happens here, the posture is essentially the same as with Janu Sirsasana except that the back is held straight (while leaning forward) and the forehead is not lowered to the knee. The mudras and bandhas are applied (mulabandha, uddiyana bandha, sambhavi mudra, kechari mudra) and the breath is held outside of the body as prana is pulled upwards using the stimulation from the heel in combination with all the mudras/bandhas. I don't have spinal breathing happen naturally, I just have an inhale happen before going into the posture, the breath is exhaled while leaning forward and then it is held out during the posture.
But again, this is just what happens here... no clue whether or not this is actually the "proper" way to do MM.
Love!
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Akasha
421 Posts |
Posted - Apr 19 2011 : 10:23:11 AM
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Hi Carson,
The way i understand it is Maha MUDRA means great lock meaning all 3 of the major locks are used together, mula,uddiyana and jalandhara.HYP might even go so far as saying this will provide a key to immortality or certainly longevity.The stimulation of the perineum with the heel adds more charge to the over-all dynamic.And then there's kechari and sambhavi just like you say also.
You sound like you've got an intuitive understanding and good handle on it.If the system is open yes we don't need much prompting.The internal manouvres and levers occur with ease ,grace and naturalness.
The exhale and then external kumbhaka/retention on the forward fold and during holding the pose makes alot of sense though, particularly as the uddiyana is always generally done after an exhale.Thanks for explaining how you do it. I think we both appreciate that there is no such thing in yoga as "the right way" .I think there are good ways and not so good ways and many sometimes quite different approaches though.What you described makes sense though.
Lots of Love,
Akasha |
Edited by - Akasha on Apr 19 2011 10:26:26 AM |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Apr 19 2011 : 10:28:30 AM
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Hi Akasha
Thanks for reminding me about jalandhara... that happens here too. When I said that the spine is straight, that means (to me ) that jalandhara is applied (I probably should have said that though). Jalandhara straightens the cervical spine... there is a natural curve to the neck and jalandhara causes that to straighten out giving prana a straight path up to the head. So, yes, jalandhara is used in combination with mula, uddiyana, kechari and sambhavi in maha mudra. Sorry for my forgetfulness.
Love!
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Akasha
421 Posts |
Posted - Apr 19 2011 : 10:55:28 AM
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Hi Carson,
As a side-note I have found the dynamic jalandhara practice(sometimes called here chin pump) intriguing as it would seem peculiar to AYP and some kriya yoga circles or schools(particularly ones that incorporate yoni mudra kumbhaka or variations on it; it may even go by other names-'way of the seven gates' it may translate ;they refer to the doors of sensory experience; eyes, ears,nose,mouth etc,shanmuki or yoni mudra;there are nine when you include the excretory and urinary portals,naumukhi mudra;with all 9 closed this leaves room for the tenth gate for the prana and passage of K),and the fact that it can be a gentle but simple stand-alone practice.Just like dynamic uddiyana,even more powerful. But you're right there is slight tilt or curve in the alignment of the vertebra found at the neck and the jalandhar does have that effect of stretching the spinal cord in quite a pleasant gentle fashion as well as stimulating upward rising energies because like you say the path may be less encumbered or obstructed.It have also heard it said that when the head is tilted slightly forward a more introverted and mindless i.e introspective state is possible , possibly because the back brain is getting woken up.Iyengar does it in his pranayam and some kriya yoga practices have that effect. Internal concentration can become easier,less distracted etc.And i can actually believe it can have that effect so it's quite useful that way as well as an energy stimulator.
I'm still on the subject of mudras and bandhas so i don't think i've veered of the thread topic too much.
Lots of love,
Akasha
P.S Carson, It easy to forget things you may have otherwise mentioned.I do it all the time! Brevity is'nt my strong point either.I guess the details interest me too. |
Edited by - Akasha on Apr 19 2011 11:29:21 AM |
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Questions on practices- spinal breathing during as
