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Jack
United Kingdom
305 Posts |
 Posted - Feb 12 2011 : 3:08:10 PM
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Hello,
I feel like a guilty puppy looking for handouts of forgiveness from any willing giver on the street.. or like the guy in therapy calling his therapist at weekends!
I have found some benefit in sharing with this group, so please forgive me if I post this rude/lewd/sexual and private, embarrassing message here. If you don't want to hear about 'bass' things, you've been warned!
Allow me to pose the situation in a form of a question:
I was feeling very 'horny' the other day but deal with a lot of anxiety/shame around sex. My partner had showed some willingess for sex in the morning before work and hinted at a post-work interlude in the afternoon. I pop a herbal viagra and bike home after work, but feel some anxiety. The combination of the anxiety and the bike ride on a herbal V lead to my heart beating uncomfortably hard so instead of any interlude I lie down on the bed and feel weak. My partner sympathises! She has to go to work and hints at there being no worries about relieving myself once she's gone and my heart has calmed down.
So I do just that later in the evening. First to an image of an ex who shamed and spited me for sexual inadequacy. Then I move to an image of my current partner which feels more energetically clean and 'finish' to that.
I leave my partner a message letting her know what an amazing time I'd just had masturbating over her. She is pleased enough by this.
Next day, I'm finding her incredibly attractive, yet have some guilt around going phases of time with the story that she is NOT attractive. I have trouble with the erection, which she is lovely about, and at one point she asks me if I'd watched porn or anything the day before. I said 'Only a picture of you'.
We later on had sex after some relaxation and comforting..
Later on, I recall her question and my evasive answer. I feel guilt, shame. I feel incredibly anxious around her. I feel obligated to unload guilt on her and obligated to tell her I'd masturbated to an image of my ex prior to the image of her. But I am s*** scared of telling her, of upsetting her, or angering her, or being subject to her anger or upset, or of being shamed.
I am really prone to guilt, its like there's a kid in me that wants to unload its guilty conscience everywhere. Desperate for forgiveness, unable to let go of the issue within, and terrified of being shamed.
So to anyone who made it through such a juvenile post, please provide some reassurance, or challenge, or advice, or simply what-you-see here?
feeling sheepish,
Jack
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jeff
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - Feb 12 2011 : 6:14:46 PM
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Jack,
Your experience is common to all of us. You need to forgive yourself. The first step is learning to laugh at yourself. Also, take your parter out for a nice dinner 
Jeff |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Feb 13 2011 : 06:01:02 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Jack
I am really prone to guilt, its like there's a kid in me that wants to unload its guilty conscience everywhere. Desperate for forgiveness, unable to let go of the issue within, and terrified of being shamed.
You already have the answer. This is not something you don't know now is it ? Because you know, then you can fix it and you can, can't you ? This is something you know and........ how........ to.........deal with.
Either now or later, faster or, less slowly than that will happen easily while you sit there reading this. |
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Jack
United Kingdom
305 Posts |
Posted - Feb 13 2011 : 08:10:57 AM
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I had a nocturnal emission early this morning while we were in bed together.. the girl in the dream was morphing between my partner and another woman.
I havn't mentioned this, we are celebrating our valentines today. If it looks like the situation may turn sexual I will tell her and explain I don't want to be shamed for it. Last time I had a nocturnal emission with another woman in mind I told her and she was very upset. So again I will only mention the 'her' part if need be.
The guilt thoughts run on automatic. DM helps to replace it with love for a short while. As does looking in the mirror and outright refusing to go down another shame cycle. |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Feb 14 2011 : 11:17:18 AM
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Hi Jack
First, here's a hug, (((((((HUG)))))))
Second, here's what comes up when I read your post....
You need to forgive yourself and let go of the shame you are holding onto. Looking to your partner for forgiveness (even if she gives it) is not going to rid you of the guilt. Only forgiving yourself can do that.
Essentially, I feel that you may be trying to "micromanage" this situation a bit... not sure how else to say it. I would suggest that you just try to relax and accept what is happening right now. When I "feel into this" a bit, I feel the constriction/tension that happens when you think about your situation. Just try to relax the "gaze" a bit. Try to consciously allow the heart to be open. I can feel how much you love your partner and how much you want intimacy with her, but I can also feel your heart close up when you allow all the thoughts (the "what if's") to be entertained. When you notice thoughts like; "I feel so ashamed" or "I'm sexually inadaquate" arising, notice them, but don't entertain them... don't follow them down the rabbit hole so to speak.... instead, just choose to relax and accept yourself... let the heart be open. There is no salvation in these thoughts. There is no salvation in thought period.
I am not sure if you are going to find this helpful or not Jack, but this is what is coming up to say. Know that you are in my prayers. 
Love!
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Jack
United Kingdom
305 Posts |
Posted - Feb 15 2011 : 2:31:16 PM
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Thanks, Carson.
More lying based on fear.
She is hormonal and sends me a couple of slightly rude/sarcastic messages. I rarely stand up for myself but I am internalising all this anger, and I vent to a coworker about it.
I see her after work and she knows something is wrong. I explain how upsetting the messages were and we work that situation out. However, she asks me if I told anyone at work, and I say "No" - out of fear of her raging out.
And now guilt and anxiety again. Its blocking the success of this relationship and I feel terrible for lacking integrity.
How can I get beyond this?
Thanks Carson..
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Feb 15 2011 : 2:51:15 PM
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Hi Jack
What does your practice set look like right now?
Love!
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Jack
United Kingdom
305 Posts |
Posted - Feb 15 2011 : 3:06:23 PM
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The transpersonal therapy group has for now given me a deep abdominal breathing exercise, wherein I work up to a 15 second exhalation, 15 second inhalation, 15 second hold, for 5-10 minutes twice a day. I am currently doing around 10/10/10.
Not wanting to lose my AYP practice entirely until I receive further specialised instruction, I have been adding 5-10 minutes of DM at the end, with plenty of rest. Sometimes Samyama but this can sometimes cause immediately evident overload.
I will do a quick 15 minute sit, rest, and return to the forum. Looking forward to hearing from you.
Jack
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Feb 15 2011 : 3:20:24 PM
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Hi Jack
To me, it sounds like you are overloading. I have an intuition that if you dropped all practices except for maybe 10 minutes twice a day of DM with 10 minutes of rest afterwards, that some of this anxiety and fear would begin to drop away. What comes to the surface when you read this suggestion?
Love!
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Jack
United Kingdom
305 Posts |
Posted - Feb 15 2011 : 3:47:32 PM
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Hi,
What comes to the surface for me when I read this suggestion is resistance. I am seeing a God-realised transpersonal therapist with three decades in healing sexuality.
I described AYP practices to him a while ago, he said these are advanced practices indeed and that while they have a place in the soul's journey, for me to practice them alone without real life support and guidance could put me in more harm than health.
I have a good deal of trust in this teacher, if I had to choose between practices I would probably go with the breathing he prescribed. I have a cold at the moment which makes breathing exercises more difficult, which is why I have been including more DM.
Still, I do like DM. Its a refined practice.
I can discuss this with the therapy team tomorrow.
She is home soon for snuggles. I will try to allay the anxiety for tonight and speak to my supports tomorrow.
I just had a practice so whooops. Better take a bath and some valerian to get through tonight.
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Jack
United Kingdom
305 Posts |
Posted - Feb 15 2011 : 3:49:01 PM
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| I just remembered I had listened to a hypnosis tape last night as well. Maybe best to give that a rest.. yet I tend to go negative without some form of positive affirmation.. |
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Jack
United Kingdom
305 Posts |
Posted - Feb 15 2011 : 3:51:55 PM
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And what about the situation?
Commit to becoming more mindful of my actions, forgive myself, let it go, not mention it and deem myself worthy of this woman? |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Feb 15 2011 : 3:53:19 PM
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Hi Jack
In my opinion, using any form of breath retention is going to continue to send you further down the anxiety rabbit hole. What you need (again, in my opinion) is a balanced state of mind. This is what DM cultivates. Using abdominal breathing as your primary practice is not going to cultivate a balanced state of mind IMO. In my opinion it will only aggravate things (as it seems to be doing). You obviously can and will do what ever you are inclined to do, but I would strongly advise you to drop all other practices, for a couple of months at least, and do just 10 minutes of DM twice a day followed by 10 minutes of rest. Doesn't mean you can't continue to use the group as support.
Wishing you the best of luck.
Love!
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Feb 15 2011 : 3:58:54 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Jack
And what about the situation?
Commit to becoming more mindful of my actions, forgive myself, let it go, not mention it and deem myself worthy of this woman?
As far as the situation goes, my best advice is to cultivate a stable and balanced state of mind. And you know what my advice is for how to do that. If you have some inner silence everything else is going to fall into place. Inner silence is the first step in my opinion.
Love!
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Jack
United Kingdom
305 Posts |
Posted - Feb 15 2011 : 4:39:41 PM
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Thank you Carson.
For some reason, I really look forward to meeting you some year down the line.
I will try as you suggested - in a sense it does feel right - but will mention this all to my therapist as it is entirely relevant and he may have something to comment.
"Beyond the state of the fear, is the state of peace. Beyond the state of peace, is the state of calm. Beyond the state of calm, is happiness. And beyond happiness, lies Bliss"
His quote.
:)
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Feb 15 2011 : 4:45:07 PM
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:)
And beyond all that is Silence.
Looking forward to meeting you...either in person or in inner space. One and the same really. 
Love!
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Jack
United Kingdom
305 Posts |
Posted - Feb 17 2011 : 3:53:59 PM
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I was given the advice to make a fresh start, and so to not drag up the past, and the message urge to "tell her all" is the urge to dump guilt.
So I was advised to sit with the guilt. Not in the guilt, but with it. And that the fear of guilt needs to be released, and that then I will see that guilt itself has no energy behind it, for it is based on thought alone.
I was advised to breathe, open and soften into guilt, to allow safety in. Safety as a state of no anxiety, no guilt, no anger.
I have sat like this for over half an hour in addition to twice daily DM. I'm going to run a bath now and will continue to follow the advice but then I should probably stop else I carry on overload.
Jack |
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Jack
United Kingdom
305 Posts |
Posted - Feb 17 2011 : 3:54:39 PM
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| I could see the physical sensation and words "Tell her, you've got to tell her", all the stories.. but there was a gap between me, the observer, and the thoughts. Pretty new.. |
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Jack
United Kingdom
305 Posts |
Posted - Feb 18 2011 : 2:05:49 PM
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| Guilt is still present. What do I do! |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Feb 18 2011 : 2:25:52 PM
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Hi Jack
quote:
What do I do!
1.) Meditate twice a day
2.) Be patient (allow some time for the accumulated effects of a twice daily, well paced, DM practice to take hold
3.) Perhaps try using Byron Katie's "The Work" on the guilt: http://www.thework.com/thework.php
Love!
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bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - Feb 18 2011 : 7:22:58 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Jack
Last time I had a nocturnal emission with another woman in mind I told her and she was very upset. So again I will only mention the 'her' part if need be.
The guilt thoughts run on automatic.
Jack
I went through a phase of about a year or two when I refrained from having waking conventional/ejaculatory orgasm, and in that time I had a lot of nocturnal emissions, maybe fifty or so. Of those I only remember one where my wife was in the dream at all (In that one odd dream, what happened was that a high school teacher of mine from years ago was making a move on her sexually). I do not recall whether I ever told her how rarely "she" was in my dreams. She claims I am usually in her erotic dreams. I am not sure what to make of the difference, but I have become comfortable admitting consciously to myself (and now to you) that for me, getting aroused is virtually always rooted unconsciously in some attraction outside my primary committed relationship.
I hope that helps.
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Jack
United Kingdom
305 Posts |
Posted - Feb 18 2011 : 8:51:31 PM
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Hmm, this is very interesting. Thank you for choosing to share this with me, bewell. I have been told that some 99% of guys will find a greater attraction outside of their primary comitted relationship.
The thoughts of guilt are more around gossip and lying now. And fear of telling her. The Work website recommends to not apply the work to my own self, but on others as this will serve as a mirror.
Does Katie go on to guide through applying the process directly on ones self, actions, beliefs in any of her books?
Its like the guilt becomes a huge pool of sadness.. telling me we are all so completely connected.. it is the energetic shame/grief of allowing the ego to create division and discord instead of allowing oneness and unity. |
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bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - Feb 19 2011 : 06:18:00 AM
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Jack
You once described your partner's mood as "hormonal." But have you considered the possibility that your own feelings of sadness and guilt are "hormonal"? Orgasm is a hormonal experience. Notice how different you feel in a pre-orgasmic state compared to how you feel afterward, a minute afterward, an hour, a day.
In AYP Yoga we cultivate the hormonal experience of pre-orgasmic bliss. Have you considered the possibility that you and your partner might be overloading on orgasms? How often do you have ejaculatory orgasms? Have you ever tried cutting back, moving in the direction of once every two weeks to a month? In my experience it makes a huge difference in how I feel, and how I relate to my partner.
Be
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Edited by - bewell on Feb 19 2011 07:20:04 AM |
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Yaming
Switzerland
112 Posts |
Posted - Feb 27 2011 : 7:13:17 PM
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Hi Jack,
I am personally only capable of being in a relationship when I can openly speak with my partner. Without that base the relationship just doesn't last long. Now, there is always this problemn: in order to be able to lead such a relationship, it requires both parties to be strong, open minded and willing to work things out. What do you do if you miss some of those qualities?
IMO it is the same as in yoga. How strong is the desire to maintain the relationship or even better evolve it? If the desire is there from both sides you should be able to start discussing the things that bother you with her. So what do you do if you don't feel ready to discuss things? The topic might easily slip out of your hands ending in a disaster. That is why, IMO, carson adviced you to meditate. It will give you a stable mind. Which in return enable you to stay calm and reflected and keep the discussion under control. It might take you a while to get to a point where you feel stable, but believe me, it is worth to strive for it.
Concerning the abdominal breathing exercises: coming from this type of exercises, I can say that, the exercises are very relaxing, if done properly and never have triggered any overload symptoms in me or the people, with whome I was practicing. But then again, you might be different and react strongly to it. If this is the case, cut down the amount of time you spend practicing. In any case, I really recommend you to meditate twice a day. It will help you in your whole life.
Wish you the best!
Yaming |
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Jack
United Kingdom
305 Posts |
Posted - Mar 04 2011 : 4:29:50 PM
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I am propelled by a force towards honest communcation now.
There is an old anti-force of fear.
Its quite a rollercoaster.
I am keeping with abdominal breathing. I was straining too much before. Keeping it to 5 second exhale, inhale, hold full is relaxing.
Self-observation of thought and feeling subselves also. Soon to include non-identification and Self-remembering.
Its a good path. Self-honesty is good.
Jack |
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Jack
United Kingdom
305 Posts |
Posted - Mar 20 2011 : 09:09:56 AM
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Hi all,
I have told her over a dozen little and not so little things this past month. She has been understanding and fine in most cases, and upset and angry in some. I've practiced honesty and it has gotten to the point where we cannot take much more remembering of past instances due to the emotional strain on the relationship.
She is busy, stressed and emotionally burdened by several other things in life and cannot take much more of me going, "I feel guilt and anxiety because I remembered xxx from past"
I remember things, some tiny (or are they?) and guilt and worry come up consistently.
I see I have not been the best guy in the past, and want to make changes.
So when something else comes to mind, like remembering a time of talking to a friend about my own health in regards to some activities me and my woman were engaging in, I feel like I have implied negatives about her and given and unclear picture of what she is like. I can't even remember if I mentioned her or if I just talked about my own behaviour but there is an implication either way - and there is guilt around it, and fear of telling her.
Is it better to communicate everything? When I have something sh*tty I've done in the past in mind, it becomes a block in my mind to intimacy including physical intimacy.
I've been observing all the different impulses within me and see all the ways I have been hurting myself and others. Its a shock. Guilt and anxiety are strong thought-patterns/feelings in me.
Is it okay, is it forgiveable, to NOT mention everything? |
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Sexual energy leak / lying / forgiveness
