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Chrisk
USA
87 Posts |
 Posted - Feb 09 2011 : 10:30:02 AM
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May I ask how kundalini is related to desire? I.e. should someone be desireless by the time K is awakened?
Thank you.
Chris. |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Feb 09 2011 : 10:41:56 AM
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Desirelessness, or rather, freedom from attachments to desire comes from practices... meditation to cultivate stillness and spinal breathing to help clear out the blocks in our nervous system.
Once there is the experience of stillness, then attachment to desires to have anything or be anywhere other than where we are right now will dissolve. It does not make us not want anything, if that was the case we would become couch potatoes, we still do things, but without an attachment to the results.
Many people have kundalini awakened, but don't practice meditation or pranayama, and chances of them transcending the attachment to desires is very small if any.
Hope this helps. |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Feb 09 2011 : 4:19:59 PM
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Hi Chris
quote:
May I ask how kundalini is related to desire? I.e. should someone be desireless by the time K is awakened?
Thank you.
Chris.
Shanti wrote:
quote:
Desirelessness, or rather, freedom from attachments to desire comes from practices... meditation to cultivate stillness and spinal breathing to help clear out the blocks in our nervous system.
Once there is the experience of stillness, then attachment to desires to have anything or be anywhere other than where we are right now will dissolve. It does not make us not want anything, if that was the case we would become couch potatoes, we still do things, but without an attachment to the results.
Many people have kundalini awakened, but don't practice meditation or pranayama, and chances of them transcending the attachment to desires is very small if any.
Hope this helps.
In my experience - if there is a hidden desire - Kundalini will most certainly expose it so that the dynamics around it can be worked through and the attachment to it released - but as Shanti points out a level of risen inner silence is needed for this. Everything is felt more intensely when the ecstatic conductivity (Kundalini) rises, obstructions in the nervous system will be "addressed" by the conductivity - that is the way it works. Kundalini is a purifying....agent. It gradually (if balanced) enables the nervous system to convey more and more refined levels of perception.
It is also my experience that meditation and pranayama alone is not enough to transcend attachments. At some point self-inquiry has to enter the picture (once there is some level of inner silence). Although spontaneous self-inquiry is a natural consequence of long term meditation practice, it is still fully possible to avoid oneself even with a lot of risen inner silence, awakened Kundalini and spontaneous self-inquiry.
There has to be a willingness to always look. This inner willingness to permanently commit to an honest looking becomes more consistent the more one is willing to act on the truth the looking reveals. Life itself gives all the opportunities needed for this dynamic to happen, and it results in the continuous rise of inner wisdom...but....only to the extent one is always willing to look at oneself honestly. Knowing (as in seeing) ones human nature is essential. When things are seen as they are no matter how they are there is no inner quarreling....it is quiet.
As we evolve on all levels....the look becomes more and more potent...like a sauce being "reduced" to its finest taste....or like a liquid becoming less and less diluted and therefore more and more potent..... through the practice of meditation and the willingness to stay true to what is discerned.The looking is gradually and instantly (according to its potency) both the welcoming, the letting go and the dissolving.
Some people are naturally committed to begin with, their level of inner silence is high from the start. For them - transcending the attachments without a formal meditation practice may be possible - I know a few such people, but they are few and far between and all of them practice self-inquiry.
For the rest of us (most of humanity), a self-paced practice including both meditation, consciously controlled breathing and self-inquiry is a very potent practice.
All the best Chris
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bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - Feb 09 2011 : 5:56:09 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Chrisk
May I ask how kundalini is related to desire? I.e. should someone be desireless by the time K is awakened?
Have you read AYP Lesson 12? Yogani writes, "If we cultivate our desire to become continuously focused on a particular goal, such as the achievement of divine union, we are cultivating a special kind of desire. It is called "devotion."
Taking a look right now, I see that I have many desires: for erotic stimulation, for elegant intellectual discourse, for ancient wisdom, for study of scripture, for present moment awareness, for truth, for friendship, for inner peace... But in AYP terms the great desire is for union of pure bliss consciousness and ecstatic conductivity resulting in stillness in action, and the free flow of divine love. As I have seen it happening, the height of kundalini awakening is the satisfaction of that great desire, and yes, there have been times when the background noise of perpetual wanting this and wishing for more of that has gone silent.
What sorts of desires are you thinking of? Do you have any desires that seem worthy of your cultivation as devotion?
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - Feb 09 2011 : 7:49:08 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Chrisk
May I ask how kundalini is related to desire? I.e. should someone be desireless by the time K is awakened?
Thank you.
Chris.
Hi Chris,
Per what others have written, I'd say that being desireless by the time Kundalini is awakened essentially never happens.
What we call Kundalini is kind of a catch-all term for the operations of consciousness-energy which take us from the misperception of being partial, to the reality of being whole.
Bhakti, devotion, ignites kundalini ... but during the overall process of awakening, along with the activities of kundalini, desire of one type or another tends to be with us.
True desirelessness really only happens when identification with the one who desires, dissolves ... and when that happens permanently, this is often referred to as liberation, or enlightenment.
Simply put: kundalini activation or awakening tends to occur closer to the beginning of our yogic sadhana (spiritual path), whereas desirelessness is a sign of its completion, in terms of knowing our own wholeness, in reality.
As with all other aspects of reality that are beyond the evaluations of thinking-mind, desirelessness cannot be understood with thinking-mind ... thinking-mind is an effect of desire, and it is therefore not exactly qualified to understand desirelessness.
In experience, desirelessness is consummately normal and beautiful.
All that extraneous energy that created artificial anxiety in the dream called "need to fill my lack" simply isn't put into that dream any longer.
Interests still exist; inclinations, actions, etc. .... but they go with the body-mind, not with the ongoing freedom of our true nature.
The activities of the body-mind may even seem very similar to how they seemed in the past, especially to observers ... but in experience, there is simply peace ... where peace was not even possible before.
The great yogic rishi Vyasa summed it up nicely in his commentary on Patanjali's Yoga Sutras:
Yac'ca Kaama-sukham Loke
Yac'ca Divyam Mahat-sukham
Trishnaa-kshaya-sukhasyai'te
NaarhataH Shodashiim Kalaam
Whatever sensual pleasure there is in this world
and whatever great pleasure there is in heaven
these cannot equal a sixteenth of the happiness
derived from the cessation of desires
Wholeheartedly,
Kirtanman
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faileforever
USA
190 Posts |
Posted - Feb 09 2011 : 8:06:16 PM
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| Thanks Kirtanman, that is a beautiful post |
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manigma
India
1065 Posts |
Posted - Feb 10 2011 : 01:51:26 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Chrisk
May I ask how kundalini is related to desire? I.e. should someone be desireless by the time K is awakened?
Kundalini is the natural intelligence inherited by every being. The energy remains latent/asleep but awakens on desire/shock/maturity.
Soul: Desires liberation.
Ego: Desires to love and be loved.
Mind: Desires knowledge.
Body: Desires food, sex.
But what do you desire?
You (the real self) is always desireless.
So Kundalini too is a very subtle form of desire itself. It has been created (like a program) by the gods to liberate the soul. The two lead programmers are Lord Vishnu (Narayana) and Lord Shiva. Brahma is the assembler.
Om.
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Chrisk
USA
87 Posts |
Posted - Feb 10 2011 : 05:23:31 AM
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Thank you for the richness and beauty of all the answers in this topic. I shall take my time in reading them again and again so as to extract the full meaning. We all here seem to have done some self- inquiry otherwise such answers - and the question - would not have been surfaced.
Thanks again,
Chris.
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Feb 10 2011 : 09:18:53 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Chrisk
We all here seem to have done some self- inquiry otherwise such answers - and the question - would not have been surfaced.
Thanks again,
Chris.
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Yes, self inquiry is a big part of the process... but self inquiry will happen naturally as we cultivate stillness. Before that, self inquiry becomes a mind game.
In AYP we call it relational-self inquiry. The form of self inquiry that will work for you will come to you when you have enough stillness... hence in AYP we emphasise, practice deep meditation, spinal breathing... then when there is some amount of stillness experience, add samyama. Between the 3 practices you clear blocks, learn to get in touch with your inner silence and let go. When we get good at this, practices that will help us move on will present themselves... we no longer have to go searching for practices. So yes, self inquiry is very important, but adding it before we are ready may not help.
Lesson 325 – Relational and Non-Relational Self-Inquiry
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Desirelessness
