quote:

---

Originally posted by Kirtanman

Hi Lost Soul,

Welcome to the AYP Forum.

What you experienced wasn't ego death. Ego-death may be frightening before it occurs, or as it is happening - but it is impossible for there to be any fear, discomfort or distress after it happens.

However, like other enlightenment-related experiences, ego-death is often not a singular event, but more often, something that happens in degrees, over time.

Even significantly-awakened people (meaning: those largely no longer identified with illusory ideas) can experience a return of conditioned ego, though if they are truly awake, it is usually just a momentary reaction of the body-mind, and not given undue attention (if you saw the equation 2+2 = 3 ... would you give it much attention? ).


The main clue that you did not experience ego death is in your sentence:
"I am "longing" for my soul to return."

--> Well , its my decision if I want long for it or no. If I dont want I just sit still, and after that all "longing" dissapear.. Its really weird. But the problem is : I can't really think about life or any other conversation , because theres nothing to think about, there is nothing to be felt .. Nothing which would made me to express myself.

Ego-death is the end of all longing; only the ego longs. Longing is a symptom of the error of perceiving ourselves as unwhole or incomplete; all desire and suffering arises from the basic error. Also, if ego death occurs, it is quite obvious that whatever can be called soul cannot go anywhere, and that we cannot be separate from it -- or anything else, for that matter.

--> You are completely right.. the only one who longs is ego..But I have to tell you something. I had telepathy connection inside of my "soul"
really..I could talk with another piece of me, who knew all about me and what I went trought in life.
And when I became aware of this piece of my soul, I experienced deep deep inner peace and love.Even my thoughts were so eaisly to control.And to say it, I also could feel other people's emotions.. Suddenly life has changed. All become new, fresh , eaisy , logic, obvious ... Really, I saw only love and happiness. How I became aware of this "piece of my soul" is trought deep meditation one day. I was also in love back then (1 year ago ).
Well, I considered this "person" inside of me as my Soul.
I don't know if you heard about it but for me this was really real.
And during trauma I met this person inside of me.. We finnaly met. And then suddenly something like "curse" appeared..the box was created , filled with fears and all the darkness that lied in me.
And then , somehow I just appeared inside of it..
And after that I also had weird thoughts like: you may feel but it never will be real, you can think but you will never ever hear.
And I dont know what it was meant by that , but this inner change brought my life into cut off essence and made me feel like robot and if I think deeply, I dont really even care if I will change again.
But when I come to point with my friends, I quickly realise that I can not give them Love anymore. I don't even feel bonds between them.
When we talk its like somebody is talking to me when I'm asleep.. Its not funny deep inside, It doesnt have meaning deep inside..

Ego basically is the illusion that we are something separate from reality; the announcement that 2+2 = 3 .... which, of course, it does not.

--> Well , I can say that "illusions" were taken off from me.. at least what I would say for reallity. This reallity is so objective.


I don't know if this may be a chemical imbalance either, though it may be (I'm not a health professional, and am not qualified to comment on that aspect). I would say that's more likely if you've had a history of neuro-chemical imbalances, or depression, or other mental health issues (chemical imbalances don't usually result from a single marijuana/spiritual experience).

--> No, I never had history on neuro-chemichal imbalances. What I felt after trauma was , that chemichal inside of my brain changed shape, it seemed like they transformed..

However, I see a third possibility, and that is: sometimes, a combination of a specific drug experience, along with our thoughts and intentions, can combine to create a powerful spiritual-emotional experience, which triggers release of old obstructions in the body-mind ... in ways that can be experienced as very disorienting and uncomfortable.

--> I gotta mention this. Before trauma (30 minutes ) I had big weird unfammiliar pure EGO's thoughts . And what it was all about is : I looked at my friend ( who was smoking with me ) and THOUGHTS wiped around my head saying : you are nothing , you consider me as weak because you are taller than me , but I can feel what you cant, I can think what you cant, you are nothing to me .. im god, im better, im the best. It was tottaly weird and it didn't make sense ,because I had total control over my thoughts. But not so much when I was "high"

The way we would say it in AYP, is that the specific experience you described triggered major purification --- that it triggered major but temporary changes in body, mind and overall energy that are ideally facilitated more gradually -- primarily because "more gradually" usually means far less discomfort.

You wrote:

"There is only pure awarness and councious thoughts."

Well, that sounds good. What exactly is the problem, do you feel?

--> The problem is : I can think only limited.. I can not go deep in thoughts anymore, I just think counciously.. and I thought counsclisly before this happened too.. but It was totally diffrent,my thoughts were totally connected with feelings.

You say you are "longing for your soul to return" ... but your soul can't actually go anywhere; it's what is reading these words.

--> Sorry , but I REALLY "feel" like my soul isn't here, I "feel" like I'm just piece of meat and that spirit left me. And so as god or "light".



I might suggest simply letting go of the memory of the experience you described; you might as well -- it's gone anyway (anything not now is simply a thought now.)

Tried that, and I can do it. I can simply forget about this, its really easy. But then after some time I ask myself: what now ? what am I ? who am I ? what I were ? and I get lost.. totally lost, no way out.

This will allow awareness to simply rest here, now, in actuality.

Non-peace requires thinking, and so, when thoughts are troubled - best to turn attention to something else, ideally something not centered around thinking.

--> Well, when I think , I "feel" like my thoughts are not heard even by MYSELF. Like they are just empty words without meaning, Nothing touches my hearth.

The sense of "nothing" or emptiness, or non-feeling may mean to that you have entered what we call the dispassion phase - where there is no longer really a sense of self, and there's a sense of deadness to everything; we no longer feel alive, or engaged with life, because our former imagination-centric way of relating to the world has dissolved.

Does that sound about right?

--> Thats sounds like you would read me..

If so, this is something that nearly every spiritual seeker passes through, and it's a fairly advanced stage; "jumping" there could be quite disturbing, but if you are there ... it's actually a fairly major gain ... just one that I'm sure has been rough for you (as you described).

It's well understood, though .... it's the desert that many spiritual tales refer to, or, as you wrote, the "dark night of the soul".

The challenge in this stage usually comes from trying to reference the old --- limited thoughts and feelings --- for information on what to do, and how to do it --- and they can't help you in this stage, and that's a good thing, actually; you're beyond them, now, if this is what you are going through.

--> I experineced simmilar things as you desriebed by "trying to reference the old --- limited thoughts and feelings --- for information on what to do and how to do it. But it wasnt possible, I couldnt do it like that.. and thats because I havent felt like I did.
And I also forgot what feelings are felt like.


Before long, the desert or dark night gives way to the new dawn, to the fulness of the promised land -- the wholeness that all spiritual seekers seek, while they are dreaming; the wholeness that's always already here.

And then, everything is alive ..... but not like before.

--> Loved that sentence, it "gave" me little faith.

Rather, actually alive, actually real .... and beautifully priceless, every moment now.



If any of that resonates deeply, maybe that's what is going on.

If you are indeed at this stage, and, even if you're not .... opening to intuition, rather than binding yourself with thinking, is likely to be helpful.

Also, if you're currently smoking a lot of weed, still, you may want to roll it back a bit, at least for a while (it can account for that dumbness feeling). The "dumbness" can also come from the old toolset of memory and imagination not being as automatically accessible as before, and if so -- that's great, actually!

--> Yea, I still smoke big and I want to lower it. And yeah, maybe actually everything could change if I quit weed for 2 months or more . ( I did quit it for 1 week ) and nothing really changed..

If that's the case, you'll get used to flowing with life, instead of thinking against it, before long at all .... and it only gets more wonderful from here, if this is where you are.

--> Loved that sentance too, I really thank you :)

All of that is written just in case it might be useful for you; I hope it is.

Also, I don't know if you practice AYP currently; if you do, please post what your daily routine is - that can help us better advise you.

If you don't, you may want to start, but you might want to start a bit slowly, per the strangeness you've been feeling. Practices might increase it ... but they also might help stabilize it. And, over the long-term, especially, AYP offers not only a successful path, but one that is very good at helping practitioners avoid major and unexpected upheavals, such as the one you've described.

Wholeheartedly,

Kirtanman

PS- Two simple lines that can be helpful at any time of discomfort:

All is well.

This too shall pass.




Again , Thank you .

Lost Soul

---