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Christi
United Kingdom
4514 Posts |
 Posted - Dec 15 2010 : 01:21:13 AM
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Hi Saagaram,
quote:
Christi, you did a good job explaining the three moments, ecstasy, bliss and dispassion. What about the fourth moment? We call the fourth moment Mahamudra. It is not subject, not object, non-arising, non-ceasing, etc. not anything but it is an indescribable joy, awakened and expanded, Buddha. Then, upon arising from samadhi, any thought, any experience whatsoever is exactly that, non-arising, non-ceasing, ecstatic dispassion etc. So there is no possibility of distraction and the fruit is meditation is no meditation, no action, no view... Liberation.
How does this translate please?
This is the realization of Brahman. Beyond all. In AYP it is described as "outpouring divine love" which is of course a description of the effect in someone who is stationed in this awareness of Brahman.
quote:
Hi Christi, I gave this some thought. I think the correspondences we discussed are off. I think it goes like this:
You say, "ecstatic conductivity" we say "bliss." You say, "inner silence" we say "clarity." You say, "Unity" we say "nondistinction."
That's fine too... much the same thing. "Ecstatic conductivity, inner silence, Unity". Ultimately it isn't about the words, it's about the experience. And then the words are seen as being only so many labels, signposts on the way. Some are useful, some are not. In the end they are all discarded.
Be careful not to fall into the trap of trying to prove the superiority of one system, or path over another. It is a trap that many have fallen into and is never more than a distraction on the path. A huge amount of energy can be wasted, not only by those engaged in pushing it, but also by those caught up in the discussion.
Ultimately there are no Buddhists, no Yogis, no Christians, no Jews, no Hindus. All that is simply part of the dream (maya) and falls away with the realization that we are all One... inseparable, in eternal Union.
If a path is needed, then use whatever you connect with, remembering that it is already in the process of dissolution. It is already like a robe that is falling from your back to reveal truth to yourself. Then there is no more "I say this", "you say that". The "I" and "you" fall away and what remains is love. This is Yoga, this is Buddha, one and the same.
Christi
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Edited by - Christi on Dec 15 2010 01:23:20 AM |
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Saagaram
USA
87 Posts |
Posted - Dec 15 2010 : 01:28:13 AM
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| The rope is not a snake. |
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Saagaram
USA
87 Posts |
Posted - Dec 15 2010 : 01:34:40 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by divinefurball
Hi Saaagaram, thanks for your reply, but no, it is not formless concentration. There is no concentration, and it is not something that can be practiced, or not practiced; nor can you "come back from it a bit", or enjoy it. It is unavoidable and incohate like lightning - It is something else entirely. However, it is true that the four moments are not accessible then: they are given, with other things, afterward. All the best, dfb
Well it is a result of concentration where there is no cognition. There is a state called "cessation of perception." This is like that. But if you are attached to this being real or you like this experience, then it is an obscuration. If you can in retrospect realize that delusion has ceased and understand that nature, then it is realization. When I say come back from it, I mean when you wake up from it, use your energy to stay in the moment and not lose your presence. It is not unavoidable. You can manage your energy so this does not happen. |
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Saagaram
USA
87 Posts |
Posted - Dec 15 2010 : 01:56:40 AM
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Hi Kirtanman and Christi,
In real Vajrayana nonduality does not mean oneness. It means the dualistic grasping of good and bad, right and wrong, correct and incorrect, subject and object, etc., etc., is given up. Oneness is dualistic. This is a very special direct experience of not going after one side or another in any way. The mind attains perfect balance and an ecstatic conductivity beyond any method or enhancement happens. If the mind is holding on to anything to be true it falls out of the path, and energy is lost. Not grasping at the two thoughts is the real emptiness. Even the experience of awareness itself is dualistic and is released from grasping so that there is no holding of a true awareness or ignorance. So nonduality for us is not a reality, it is a method of recognizing the two thoughts, opposites, and realizing these have no color or shape, no reality in themselves and then the rope is not a snake. The snake had no reality to begin with. Mahamudra is realizing the actuality of awareness itself is unreal. So I don't have a view of oneness or twoness or of a Buddha or Yoga. I have no view at all. |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4514 Posts |
Posted - Dec 15 2010 : 02:59:48 AM
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Hi Saagaram,
quote:
So I don't have a view of oneness or twoness or of a Buddha or Yoga. I have no view at all.
No offence, but I think you could have fooled a few people around here. 
Examine carefully, who is this I? The I that has a view... the I that has no view? What is its colour, what is its shape? Where are it's boundaries? When does it arise? When does it end?
Two? One? Three?
The many? The few?
View? No view?
Where does it end? |
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Saagaram
USA
87 Posts |
Posted - Dec 15 2010 : 03:27:28 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Christi
Hi Saagaram,
quote:
So I don't have a view of oneness or twoness or of a Buddha or Yoga. I have no view at all.
No offence, but I think you could have fooled a few people around here.
Examine carefully, who is this I? The I that has a view... the I that has no view? What is its colour, what is its shape? Where are it's boundaries? When does it arise? When does it end?
Two? One? Three?
The many? The few?
View? No view?
Where does it end?
Well said. Well said, indeed.
quote:
Avalokiteshvara Bodhisattva, practicing deep prajna paramita,
clearly saw that all five skandhas are empty, transforming all suffering and distress.
Shariputra, form is no other than emptiness, emptiness no other than form. Form is exactly emptiness, emptiness exactly form. Sensation, thought, impulse, consciousness are also like this.
Shariputra, all things are marked by emptiness -
not born, not destroyed,
not stained, not pure,
without gain, without loss.
Therefore in emptiness there is no form, no sensation, thought, impulse, consciousness.
No eye, ear, nose, tongue, body, mind.
No color, sound, smell, taste, touch, object of thought.
No realm of sight to no realm of thought.
No ignorance and also no ending of ignorance to no old age and death and also no ending of old age and death.
No suffering, and also no source of suffering, no annihilation, no path.
No wisdom, also no attainment.
Having nothing to attain, Bodhisattvas live prajna paramita with no hindrance in the mind.
No hindrance, thus no fear.
Far beyond delusive thinking, they attain complete Nirvana.
All Buddhas past, present and future live prajna paramita and thus attain anuttara samyak sambodhi.
Therefore, know that prajna paramita is the great mantra, the wisdom mantra, the unsurpassed mantra, the supreme mantra, which completely removes all suffering. This is truth, not deception. Therefore set forth the prajna paramita mantra, set forth this mantra and say:
GATÉ GATÉ PARAGATÉ PARASAMGATÉ BODHI SVAHA
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Saagaram
USA
87 Posts |
Posted - Dec 15 2010 : 09:44:42 AM
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| Is not a wandering thought this very nature? |
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Saagaram
USA
87 Posts |
Posted - Dec 15 2010 : 10:39:49 AM
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This thread is about combining AYP and Buddhist practice right? So I am also giving you Buddhist Yoga Nidra. Actually I think the AYP method of Yoga Nidra is really good and in the Buddhist Yogas is called Prabhashvara Yoga, the Yoga of the Clear Light. It's very high level and excellent. So I don't need to give you a different Buddhist yoga of clear light, you have a best one.
But these methods of Buddhist practice are about Dream Yoga. Dream Yoga is one step below Clear Light Yoga and helps you have lucid dreams. When combined with the practice of inner silence, the witness and so on your negative karmic dreams of meeting with people who you don't want to meet, or adverse circumstances, etc. will lessen. Additionally, with lucid dreaming you can have a very bright clarity where it is very easy to see your dream world and waking world are not different.
As you lay in bed it is best to lay flat on the back or in the lion pose where you lay on your side with your head on your hand. It is taught that if you are male you should lay on your right side and females should lay on their left sides due to the prominence of breath in the nostrils of one side or another. But these shift throughout the night so you just lay on which side is more comfortable which side you breath relaxed is most important.
The idea behind Dream Yoga is to have a light sleep. It is easier to have this practice when even you are hopped up on coffee or tea that day due to working or school and you are sleeping lightly not heavily and deeply. I had these early experiences of dream yoga when I was a schoolboy I would bend my head down like I was reading my book while the teacher was talking and fall asleep. I would immediately wake up in my dream and be looking around the room, except no one was there. I was in an empty classroom. When I would be startled I would wake up and be back in class with the teacher looking at me. Alwayson is talking about this with his talk about trance.
So you don't want to be too sleepy to succeed in this practice nor too energized. It is like the Buddha's teaching to the lute player, the string can't be too tight or too loose for the music to sing.
Now you are lying on your side and you bring your mantra into your solar centering. In the Buddhist world it is taught to visualize a five colored bindu while sounding the white syllable "AH" or "HUM". Sometimes it is taught to visualize this in the heart, sometimes the throat, sometimes on a lotus, etc. Also it is taught to visualize a stack of white syllables going up the spine from the heart to the crown and above the crown.
The main point is to mentally recite the mantra you are using as you lie down. You don't have to visualize. But visualizing doesn't hurt either. The bright light of you mantra really helps you pick up the dream, meaning recognize you are dreaming. Using the syllable "AH" with the five colored lights will launch into the dimension of the siddhas because this is what they have been using since Udyan and you will get definite Buddhist teachings that sound buddhist about death, impermanence, clear light and so on. If you do "I AM" you will get different experiences. This is a lesson on interdependent connection.
The Prajnaparamita in One Sound says that the entire Buddha's teaching boils down to the sound "AH." The Prajnaparamita in One Letter says it boils down to the letter "A." There's also the Prajnaparamita in 8,000, 25,000 and 100,000 verses. The meaning is that A is the origin of all sounds. Sound is energy and energy is what we are. The first sound of "AYAM" is "A" etc. So I have been using A visualization and sound for a long time as have hundreds of thousands of yogis so it has a proven history of usefulness as a mantra of meditation and dream yoga practice.
Also "I AM" mantra is being used here with proven effectiveness, and it has a power of its own. I don't think folks here have experimented with visualizing this mantra. This is an area for an industrious yogi to take up as an extension of solar centering. The importance of visualizing the mantra is that dreams are light. Dreams are not just sound. In fact our waking life is sound, light and form. Form means six senses manifestations. So if you meditation as you go to sleep is awareness of this sound and light and form, then you can more easily know you are dreaming.
What can happen is, just like in meditation, you know your mind is wandering off and you come back to the mantra. Then, the dream just ceases. Or you go off into dreamland and lose your mantra. It's okay, you need to sleep so don't worry if you can't know you are dreaming. Slowly as you practice night after night you will be with your mantra and just as the dream thoughts appear, you see that and you can take control of them. This is that thin line between daydreaming and nightdreaming.
The best time to do this is just as you are going to sleep and if you wake up to pee in the middle of the night, just as you lay down again and then again just as you wake up in the morning. In the beginning, it is best at least to see your mind's true nature as you go to sleep and just as you wake up so you get in the habit of remembering to practice as at these times, because our tendency is to be deluded and dopey at these times. This is dream yoga practice. |
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divinefurball
USA
138 Posts |
Posted - Dec 15 2010 : 4:14:05 PM
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Saagaram said: "Well it is a result of concentration where there is no cognition. There is a state called "cessation of perception." This is like that. But if you are attached to this being real or you like this experience, then it is an obscuration. If you can in retrospect realize that delusion has ceased and understand that nature, then it is realization. When I say come back from it, I mean when you wake up from it, use your energy to stay in the moment and not lose your presence. It is not unavoidable. You can manage your energy so this does not happen".
Hi Saagaram, thanks for trying to be helpful, but no, it is neither the result of concentration, nor any other preparation. It cannot be induced, prevented, or replicated, and one can never be prepared for it, like it, dislike it, or be attached to it. It's really not like that, and it only needs to happen once in a lifetime for everything, including your physiology, to be permanently changed. It is not a "cessation of perception". There is no mind for perception to cease in. It is more like an actual physical death (you will be dead for some time), and resurrection, with kundalini in nirvana. As you come out of it, the 4 moments, the 3-4 Kyas; the channels, the winds, and other things, suddenly become effortlessly available, and your body begins to change in various ways, and continues to do so over time, in conjunction with great bliss of various kinds, all of which is infused with an ineffable but actively compassionate love for all things. It is possible to become attached to the blisses though; and this can easily become an obscuration. They can certainly be a distraction! Over several years, things settle down a little, and the process becomes more gradual, with less continuous, spontaneous, apprehensions. One also starts to get grumpy again on occasion (lol), and the purer states become harder to reach and maintain, etc. So more work is required. That is why I'm interested in practices. Also new practices spontaneously emerge on their own, in tandem with this, and other physiological and psychological developments. There's a lot more to it, but I really don't want to say much more about it, except that not intellectually understanding what was happening to me, led me to search the web, where I found Yogani's discussions of kechari, the nectar cycle, and some other pertinent things, for which I am very greatfull! I hoped there might be a name, or context, for this in your tradition, so I could understand more about it. That is why I asked you the question. You will know for sure what I'm talking about, if it ever happens to you. Wishing you the very best, dfb. |
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Saagaram
USA
87 Posts |
Posted - Dec 15 2010 : 6:11:16 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by divinefurball
Saagaram said: "Well it is a result of concentration where there is no cognition. There is a state called "cessation of perception." This is like that. But if you are attached to this being real or you like this experience, then it is an obscuration. If you can in retrospect realize that delusion has ceased and understand that nature, then it is realization. When I say come back from it, I mean when you wake up from it, use your energy to stay in the moment and not lose your presence. It is not unavoidable. You can manage your energy so this does not happen".
Hi Saagaram, thanks for trying to be helpful, but no, it is neither the result of concentration, nor any other preparation. It cannot be induced, prevented, or replicated, and one can never be prepared for it, like it, dislike it, or be attached to it. It's really not like that, and it only needs to happen once in a lifetime for everything, including your physiology, to be permanently changed. It is not a "cessation of perception". There is no mind for perception to cease in. It is more like an actual physical death (you will be dead for some time), and resurrection, with kundalini in nirvana. As you come out of it, the 4 moments, the 3-4 Kyas; the channels, the winds, and other things, suddenly become effortlessly available, and your body begins to change in various ways, and continues to do so over time, in conjunction with great bliss of various kinds, all of which is infused with an ineffable but actively compassionate love for all things. It is possible to become attached to the blisses though; and this can easily become an obscuration. They can certainly be a distraction! Over several years, things settle down a little, and the process becomes more gradual, with less continuous, spontaneous, apprehensions. One also starts to get grumpy again on occasion (lol), and the purer states become harder to reach and maintain, etc. So more work is required. That is why I'm interested in practices. Also new practices spontaneously emerge on their own, in tandem with this, and other physiological and psychological developments. There's a lot more to it, but I really don't want to say much more about it, except that not intellectually understanding what was happening to me, led me to search the web, where I found Yogani's discussions of kechari, the nectar cycle, and some other pertinent things, for which I am very greatfull! I hoped there might be a name, or context, for this in your tradition, so I could understand more about it. That is why I asked you the question. You will know for sure what I'm talking about, if it ever happens to you. Wishing you the very best, dfb.
There is this description in the Buddha's own experience of enlightenment. He describes what you experienced as enlightenment. |
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Holy
796 Posts |
Posted - Dec 15 2010 : 6:37:46 PM
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As long as your practice deepens into the central channel, may it be through the classic vase breathing + inner fire, or through spinal breathing/kriya pranayama, kumbhak, through concentration, meditation, bandhas, mudras, through full surrender, awareness ...etc... (endless list ^^)..
..the results are the same and will expand to MAX on all levels.
When some point is reached, all knowledge including the most secret and untellable methods are revealed directly from within.
When it comes to combining, the problem always lies in the longterm stability of the practice. It is true that some elements are missing in AYP. And in other systems other elements of AYP are not found. And it appeals highly to use the best of all systems.
I remember a combination I practiced some years go with supreme results but not for very long, which was:
- AYP full set + the missing elements form Kriya Yoga aka Om Japa for the Chakras + the missing elements of hatha yoga pranayamas like bhastrika - kumbhakka - nadi sodhana + the microcosmic orbit (taoist technique) + being consciously a witness the whole day etc...
It was unsustainable ^^ You see, every system has great techniques to offer. It is really hard to make it simple with max outcome. AYP is an approach to it. It is optimized for busy people in general. If there is more time, there are more options. But again, what happened to me xy times: the more techniques there are, the less deepening happens. DM alone brings you to ALL you have counted like being more lovely, more compassionate etc. SBP alone brings you to the same + infinitely more. How much could you deepen your practice in these both areas so far?
The same goes for vase breathing + inner fire. This alone and what else is needed? Continuous digging in one whole has brought me much much more than a complex set of surface action.
It is not without reason why it is called: dharana - dhyana - samadhi. concentration - meditation - samadhi.
Wishin you the same as divinefurball =) |
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bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - Dec 15 2010 : 7:02:55 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by divinefurball
....You will know for sure what I'm talking about, if it ever happens to you.
Hi divinefurball,
That sounds an awful lot like what happened to me. Mine happened in the context of awakening from dream sleep suddenly and finding my mind awake but my body immobilized by "sleep paralysis." What was the immediate bio/psychological context of your experience at onset?
Be
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alwayson2
USA
546 Posts |
Posted - Dec 15 2010 : 7:04:49 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by bewell
quote:
Originally posted by divinefurball
....You will know for sure what I'm talking about, if it ever happens to you.
Hi divinefurball,
That sounds an awful lot like what happened to me. Mine happened in the context of awakening from dream sleep suddenly and finding my mind awake but my body immobilized by "sleep paralysis." What was the immediate bio/psychological context of your experience at onset?
Be
sleep paralysis means an active OBE is going on according to Robert Bruce. |
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - Dec 15 2010 : 7:37:10 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Saagaram
Hi Kirtanman and Christi,
In real Vajrayana nonduality does not mean oneness. It means the dualistic grasping of good and bad, right and wrong, correct and incorrect, subject and object, etc., etc., is given up. Oneness is dualistic. This is a very special direct experience of not going after one side or another in any way. The mind attains perfect balance and an ecstatic conductivity beyond any method or enhancement happens. If the mind is holding on to anything to be true it falls out of the path, and energy is lost. Not grasping at the two thoughts is the real emptiness. Even the experience of awareness itself is dualistic and is released from grasping so that there is no holding of a true awareness or ignorance. So nonduality for us is not a reality, it is a method of recognizing the two thoughts, opposites, and realizing these have no color or shape, no reality in themselves and then the rope is not a snake. The snake had no reality to begin with. Mahamudra is realizing the actuality of awareness itself is unreal. So I don't have a view of oneness or twoness or of a Buddha or Yoga. I have no view at all.
Hi Saagaram,
In the traditions I'm familiar with, primarily Kashmir Shaivism, non-duality and oneness are not synonymous, either.
However, Yogani tends to use oneness as a term for the wholeness that is the result of practices, and equivalent to liberation (Yogani, if any of that statement is incorrect, please clarify).
And so, just another semantics thing.
I sometimes say "from one angle, One, from another angle All".
From the angle of All - multiplicity - non-duality can be called oneness.
From the view of division being eliminated, Oneness.
From the view of prior-to-division, or "meta" any division, Non-Duality.
The "not going after either side in any way" still implies someone who is doing this, yes?
Notice Yogani's phrasing in Lesson 430 - "unidentified awareness" - which is as good a description of the reality of our non-dual true nature as I've seen.
Just as liberation isn't something we "get", but is just what's here when we stop making up bondage, so non-dual reality, and living consciously as unidentified awareness - as a liberated human, free of conceptual distortions and false identifications - is just what's here when awareness stops identifying with its content alone.
It's all quite a bit easier to recognize when we're experiencing it.
I hope that helps clarify some of the phrasing in question; simply put:
In AYP, Oneness and Non-Duality are equivalent, "per above", as I understand it.
Wholeheartedly,
Kirtanman |
Edited by - Kirtanman on Dec 15 2010 7:38:37 PM |
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divinefurball
USA
138 Posts |
Posted - Dec 15 2010 : 8:35:45 PM
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| Hi Bewell, thanks for your post. I was house cleaning and having a beer, at the time of the onset. I have had at least 1 experience of it while sleeping, in which paralysis was an aspect. Try not to worry about it - though I know these things can be scary - just practice calmness so you can see what is happening. Be courageous. Wishing you the very best, dfb. |
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bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - Dec 15 2010 : 9:10:33 PM
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| scary, yes, complete unmitigated terror, but after that the good stuff: as you say, " It is more like an actual physical death (you will be dead for some time), and resurrection, with kundalini in nirvana." that is what I am talking about. life changing, yoga teaching, inner guru. |
Edited by - bewell on Dec 15 2010 9:12:09 PM |
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divinefurball
USA
138 Posts |
Posted - Dec 15 2010 : 9:22:48 PM
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| Hi Bewell, then all is good. their is nothing to talk about. dfb |
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Saagaram
USA
87 Posts |
Posted - Dec 15 2010 : 10:11:03 PM
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| Hi guys, Okay so I ask once more. Is not an errant thought this very nature? Because I don't hold anything to be true. |
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Saagaram
USA
87 Posts |
Posted - Dec 15 2010 : 10:15:19 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by divinefurball
Saagaram said: "Well it is a result of concentration where there is no cognition. There is a state called "cessation of perception." This is like that. But if you are attached to this being real or you like this experience, then it is an obscuration. If you can in retrospect realize that delusion has ceased and understand that nature, then it is realization. When I say come back from it, I mean when you wake up from it, use your energy to stay in the moment and not lose your presence. It is not unavoidable. You can manage your energy so this does not happen".
Hi Saagaram, thanks for trying to be helpful, but no, it is neither the result of concentration, nor any other preparation. It cannot be induced, prevented, or replicated, and one can never be prepared for it, like it, dislike it, or be attached to it. It's really not like that, and it only needs to happen once in a lifetime for everything, including your physiology, to be permanently changed. It is not a "cessation of perception". There is no mind for perception to cease in. It is more like an actual physical death (you will be dead for some time), and resurrection, with kundalini in nirvana. As you come out of it, the 4 moments, the 3-4 Kyas; the channels, the winds, and other things, suddenly become effortlessly available, and your body begins to change in various ways, and continues to do so over time, in conjunction with great bliss of various kinds, all of which is infused with an ineffable but actively compassionate love for all things. It is possible to become attached to the blisses though; and this can easily become an obscuration. They can certainly be a distraction! Over several years, things settle down a little, and the process becomes more gradual, with less continuous, spontaneous, apprehensions. One also starts to get grumpy again on occasion (lol), and the purer states become harder to reach and maintain, etc. So more work is required. That is why I'm interested in practices. Also new practices spontaneously emerge on their own, in tandem with this, and other physiological and psychological developments. There's a lot more to it, but I really don't want to say much more about it, except that not intellectually understanding what was happening to me, led me to search the web, where I found Yogani's discussions of kechari, the nectar cycle, and some other pertinent things, for which I am very greatfull! I hoped there might be a name, or context, for this in your tradition, so I could understand more about it. That is why I asked you the question. You will know for sure what I'm talking about, if it ever happens to you. Wishing you the very best, dfb.
If what you say is true and you have manifested all the kayas and mastered the channels and winds, then you should have some phenomenal siddhis now. It helps to put things into perspective what really we have accomplished. A past experience is just that... a dream. |
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divinefurball
USA
138 Posts |
Posted - Dec 15 2010 : 11:01:21 PM
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| Hi Saagaram, siddhis of different kinds come and go. They are unimportant and have nothing to do with greater perspective, and continuity of physiological and spiritual change. In addition, they are a temptation to dwadling, grand-standing, pretense, yogi baiting, and pride. What I have mentioned is not an experience, or an accomplishment: though it is ongoing. Before this thread I have never mentioned any of this to anyone here. I have no beliefs about it. I have only said what has happened to me. Wishing you the very best, dfb |
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Saagaram
USA
87 Posts |
Posted - Dec 16 2010 : 11:22:49 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by divinefurball
Hi Saagaram, siddhis of different kinds come and go. They are unimportant and have nothing to do with greater perspective, and continuity of physiological and spiritual change. In addition, they are a temptation to dwadling, grand-standing, pretense, yogi baiting, and pride. What I have mentioned is not an experience, or an accomplishment: though it is ongoing. Before this thread I have never mentioned any of this to anyone here. I have no beliefs about it. I have only said what has happened to me. Wishing you the very best, dfb
It is quite the contrary. Siddhis emerge from the wishes of beings suffering in confusion. One must have a right view about this. Enlightened beings don't manifest siddhis for the sport. Not at all. Siddhis are a manifestation of compassion. Particularly the ability to know other minds helps one to instruct in timely pithy ways the exact message that helps another wake up. When compassion is vast so are the siddhis. |
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Balasco
United Kingdom
3 Posts |
Posted - Dec 16 2010 : 5:38:30 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by divinefurball
Hi Saragaram, thank you for all the fascinating insights into your tradition. I follow you on the 4 moments, I think; but what is it when there is spontaneous death like khumbaka, with no awareness of any kind whatsoever; no bliss, no mind, no nothing, no void, no moment: such that you don't even know it occurred until afterward. With thanks, to you, or any other who can comment on this. All the best, dfb
I believe the term for this is 'stream entry' in Buddhism. Lots of disscusion on the subject here;
http://kennethfolkdharma.wetpaint.c...ream%20Entry |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Dec 17 2010 : 07:58:45 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Saagaram
Now I will give you an amalgamation practice based on AYP practice and Tantric Buddhism. I think you will appreciate this it is works because I gave it a try and it works great. This is the real sweet nectar so get ready.
Okay there is variation on your Spinal Breathing Pranayama; don't worry we will not engage crown, no need for that. So this is within bounds of your practice.
Visualize your body is hollow like a blown up balloon. Or better that it is insubstantial like a rainbow. Visualize the tube of central channel from brow to four finger widths below navel similar to how you do on AYP but not all the way to root chakra only to four finger widths below navel; this is very important.
Visualize the two ida and pingala going from nostrils parallel to shushumna and ending just below the central channel below navel.
Visualize a moon sphere, exactly the moon as you see on full moon night bright and detailed but tiny like a mustard seed, visualize this in your brow.
Visualize a tiny sun four finger lengths the navel, just below the central channel and between the ends of ida and pingala. Their ends are like the old 1700s rifles that have a trumpet nose.
This is AYP + Buddhist Tantra Spinal Breathing Pranayama.
Here is AYP + Budhist Tantra Kumbhaka + uddiyana bandha, mula bandha, shambhavi etc.
As you exhale this fire shoots up the central channel and heats the white "am." The whole body is filled with blazing flames until flame shoots out of your pores and burns up the whole universe.
As you inhale the fire goes back down and do again and again.
...
Sagaram,
I am sorry, but please refrain for using statements like:
"Now I will give you an amalgamation practice based on AYP practice"
and
"Okay there is variation on your Spinal Breathing Pranayama; don't worry we will not engage crown, no need for that. So this is within bounds of your practice."
One, the practice above is not a variation of AYP practice. Two, complex visualization is not a part of AYP practices either. We believe in keeping it simple.
Going forward, you are welcome to post your own practices in the "Other System" forum, however please put a clear note at the top stating:
"Note: The practice that I've described below in not an AYP practice "
These are the AYP forums. The main purpose of these forums is to guide people in the practices as described in the AYP lessons. And although we do allow people to share their non-AYP practices, we also want to make sure we do not confuse people who are new to the forums on what is AYP and what is not.
Wish you all the best.  |
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Saagaram
USA
87 Posts |
Posted - Dec 17 2010 : 5:18:44 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Shanti
quote:
Originally posted by Saagaram
Now I will give you an amalgamation practice based on AYP practice and Tantric Buddhism. I think you will appreciate this it is works because I gave it a try and it works great. This is the real sweet nectar so get ready.
Okay there is variation on your Spinal Breathing Pranayama; don't worry we will not engage crown, no need for that. So this is within bounds of your practice.
Visualize your body is hollow like a blown up balloon. Or better that it is insubstantial like a rainbow. Visualize the tube of central channel from brow to four finger widths below navel similar to how you do on AYP but not all the way to root chakra only to four finger widths below navel; this is very important.
Visualize the two ida and pingala going from nostrils parallel to shushumna and ending just below the central channel below navel.
Visualize a moon sphere, exactly the moon as you see on full moon night bright and detailed but tiny like a mustard seed, visualize this in your brow.
Visualize a tiny sun four finger lengths the navel, just below the central channel and between the ends of ida and pingala. Their ends are like the old 1700s rifles that have a trumpet nose.
This is AYP + Buddhist Tantra Spinal Breathing Pranayama.
Here is AYP + Budhist Tantra Kumbhaka + uddiyana bandha, mula bandha, shambhavi etc.
As you exhale this fire shoots up the central channel and heats the white "am." The whole body is filled with blazing flames until flame shoots out of your pores and burns up the whole universe.
As you inhale the fire goes back down and do again and again.
...
Sagaram,
I am sorry, but please refrain for using statements like:
"Now I will give you an amalgamation practice based on AYP practice"
and
"Okay there is variation on your Spinal Breathing Pranayama; don't worry we will not engage crown, no need for that. So this is within bounds of your practice."
One, the practice above is not a variation of AYP practice. Two, complex visualization is not a part of AYP practices either. We believe in keeping it simple.
Going forward, you are welcome to post your own practices in the "Other System" forum, however please put a clear note at the top stating:
"Note: The practice that I've described below in not an AYP practice "
These are the AYP forums. The main purpose of these forums is to guide people in the practices as described in the AYP lessons. And although we do allow people to share their non-AYP practices, we also want to make sure we do not confuse people who are new to the forums on what is AYP and what is not.
Wish you all the best.
Thank you. |
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Combining AYP with Buddhist Practice?
