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sambo
Australia
35 Posts |
 Posted - Dec 08 2010 : 5:29:07 PM
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hello people
I would like to ask for a perspective of someone who currently abides in non-duality.
I have been having a discussion with a friend in regards to what happens after you die or what happens after you are enlightend and then die.
Is there an eternal awareness/consciousness or complete annihilation of awareness/consciousness.
Not sure if such a thing can be answered although your perspective would be appreciated. |
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - Dec 08 2010 : 10:50:49 PM
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Enlightenment is liberation from mistaken identification with form.
When we know we are not form:
Death isn't.
Awareness is.
Awareness is that which is beyond all cycles of creation, display and annihilation.
Wholeheartedly,
Kirtanman |
Edited by - Kirtanman on Dec 08 2010 10:53:07 PM |
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bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - Dec 09 2010 : 10:51:12 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Kirtanman
Death isn't.
Awareness is.
Awareness is that which is beyond all cycles of creation, display and annihilation.
Kirtanman
I laughed when I saw sambo's question. I toyed with a hope that nobody would be arrogant enough to offer an inevitably failed reply. But then you chimed in.
Here is my question for you:
What if
death is?
And
awareness is ultimately inseparable from form?
And the words "beyond all cycles of creation, display and annihilation" are just pointers to an abstract idea that helps cultivate a sense of "awareness" for people who are -- like all of us online here on AYP Forum -- still in the body, alive, lucky to be able to breathe and love another day?
Then what?
I am not laughing now.
My body is shaking (again).
Be
PS (for readers other than Kirtanman who may not be aware of it) my use of the terms "arrogant" and "failed" above are chosen specifically for their relation to a conversation described by Kirtanman where two teachers respected in non-duality circles were talking an one said, "I am a failed arrogant non-duality teacher."
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....page=4#76392
PPS about an hour has past since I wrote "My body is shaking (again)." Now the shaking in mostly stilled and morphed into a warm, peaceful glow, although this writing does bring up a bit of the shaking in my gut. The "again" in the shaking sentence refers back to a retreat when I was having an exchange with Kirtanman and Kirtanman was one of the leaders and my body was shaking. The same retreat Kirtanman refers to here:
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....page=4#76392
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Edited by - bewell on Dec 09 2010 12:15:41 PM |
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slenten
23 Posts |
Posted - Dec 09 2010 : 1:16:50 PM
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Edited by - slenten on Dec 13 2010 09:00:37 AM |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Dec 09 2010 : 2:00:14 PM
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Hi sambo
quote:
I have been having a discussion with a friend in regards to what happens after you die or what happens after you are enlightend and then die.
I don't know.
But have you ever inquired into the drive behind wanting to know the answer?
What difference will it make to know it?
I don't know what I am abiding in when I am abiding.....
But abiding itself is very peaceful.
For some reason this is my strongest association with death.
That it is rest.
Peace.
When I stroked my mothers head and held her hand when she took her last breath.....all I can say is that both my mothers form and spirit left the body in dying.... and spread throughout the room and beyond. The body stopped being a body right there and then. It was not dead. It was simply just not a body anymore.
It was the most silencing sacred moment in my life up until then.
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bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - Dec 09 2010 : 5:43:25 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by bewell
...would be arrogant enough to offer an inevitably failed reply. But then you..
I am noticing an unkind tone in my words from earlier today. I am examining where that comes from in me. That is the old "fight response." I knew it when I was writing, but I kept on. It seemed "justified" somehow. It was mirroring the brashness of the non-duality in-group. I had a point to make. Truth was at stake. But now, in retrospect it seems yucky. Strange how that cycle goes. A bit quicker this time around. I am feeling sadness, remorse. Shame? Well, yes, a bit, but I am trying to move beyond that toxic zone by writing this rather than trying to forget and hitting delete. I am in this conversation as a relational process increasing mind and body awareness, and insight dialog... I hope.
Kirtanman, I apologize for my unkindness. I would prefer a more open dialog. Would you like to share more about what you shared before? I would be very interested in hearing something of your personal journey with death and what comes after. |
Edited by - bewell on Dec 09 2010 6:23:23 PM |
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bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - Dec 09 2010 : 6:45:02 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by slenten
I also intuitively accept that my brain generates consciousness and when it dies so will consciousness. And yet, I am completely happy with this. The inevitability of nonexistence fills me with contentment. It is natural, complete
slenten,
I am glad you chimed in. I too accept intuitively that when the brain dies, so goes consciousness. I would add that brain death is a process that may be longer than clinical measures can detect. Also, I feel the authenticity of what Katine shared. There seems to be an explosion of consciousness/awareness around the time of death that is perceptible for people around the dying who are on the same wavelength. I have felt it too. You?
be |
Edited by - bewell on Dec 09 2010 6:47:21 PM |
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - Dec 09 2010 : 6:59:24 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by bewell
quote:
Originally posted by bewell
...would be arrogant enough to offer an inevitably failed reply. But then you..
I am noticing an unkind tone in my words from earlier today. I am examining where that comes from in me. That is the old "fight response." I knew it when I was writing, but I kept on. It seemed "justified" somehow. It was mirroring the brashness of the non-duality in-group. I had a point to make. Truth was at stake. But now, in retrospect it seems yucky. Strange how that cycle goes. A bit quicker this time around. I am feeling sadness, remorse. Shame? Well, yes, a bit, but I am trying to move beyond that toxic zone by writing this rather than trying to forget and hitting delete. I am in this conversation as a relational process increasing mind and body awareness, and insight dialog... I hope.
Kirtanman, I apologize for my unkindness. I would prefer a more open dialog. Would you like to share more about what you shared before? I would be very interested in hearing something of your personal journey with death and what comes after.
Hi Bewell,
No worries.
I genuinely appreciate your authenticity and candor; it feels very genuine. Communicating in kind, and kindly, is always my intention, too, even if my words may sometimes make it seem otherwise, to some.
And yes, I'm always happy to engage in dialog/conversation.
I'll plan to respond in more detail, a little later this evening, when I have a bit more time available.
Wholeheartedly,
Kirtanman |
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - Dec 09 2010 : 9:31:00 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by bewell
[quote]Originally posted by bewell
I would be very interested in hearing something of your personal journey with death and what comes after.
Hi Bewell & All,
Sure; I'll do my best to hopefully convey it (my experiences) clearly.
First, my intention with my original post was more definitional than "predictional".
It's all happening now, and only now.
This moment is the only moment with reality to it; anything not now is simply a thought now.
This includes any thoughts or opinions regarding when the body dies.
I wasn't really commenting on body-death; more stating my experience that awareness and death aren't really related; awareness is -- whereas death is part of a continuous cycling, occurring within awareness.
Experiencing awareness as our true nature, as opposed to anything that has form to it, no matter how gross or subtle, is exactly and actually the liberation from the cycles of birth and death spoken of so much in the sacred writings of India.
And so, if we're identified with physical body, or individual mind - there can be questions and concerns about "when I die".
When we're not so identified ... when awareness is simply living as wholeness ... questions or concerns about death of body or limited mind are simply not applicable.
And so, my phrasing:
Death isn't .... awareness is.
I don't know if that's any more clear than what I said originally, and I gladly invite any questions, objections, comments, etc. which may help us all have a good conversation, here.
The most important thing I feel I can say about death, or what happens in connection with death is the most important thing I can say about anything:
Just let it go.
Doesn't matter.
Everything is right here, right now.
It's living itself, unbound and celebrating.
And so are we; we are the living that's unbound and celebrating.
We can only think we're not .... and that's how we lapse into dreams of unreality.
Wholeheartedly,
Kirtanman
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sambo
Australia
35 Posts |
Posted - Dec 10 2010 : 01:44:21 AM
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thankyou kirtanman for your response, you are a wise man i enjoy reading your posts.
Death awareness is something i find to be a powerful tool in helping me to let go. That in the scheme of things my little (story) and desires are really not that important,for i shall return to infinity. that is a liberating thought indeed.
quote:
originally posted by katrine
]When I stroked my mothers head and held her hand when she took her last breath.....all I can say is that both my mothers form and spirit left the body in dying.... and spread throughout the room and beyond. The body stopped being a body right there and then. It was not dead. It was simply just not a body anymore.
It was the most silencing sacred moment in my life up until then.
Hey Katrine thanks for sharing this. beautiful...
quote:
originally posted by katrine
But have you ever inquired into the drive behind wanting to know the answer?
What difference will it make to know it?
Yes i am aware that to conceptually know what life or death is, is impossible and or pointless. Although my friend whom i was discussing these things with. Has studied some buddhist texts and know believes that once he is liberated he will be annihilated. He now has lost motivation to practice.So i spouse to have some conceptual idea can help with motivation.
Hey Slenton
quote:
I also intuitively accept that my brain generates consciousness and when it dies so will consciousness.
I spose the mystery then is what generated the brain. The more i think of such things the more i realise my puny little brain cannot comprehend very much at all. haha tnx for replying good to hear all perspectives |
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jamuna
Australia
104 Posts |
Posted - Dec 13 2010 : 3:52:30 PM
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Hello Sambo,
Perhaps you would like to invite your friend to join the forums. That way he may be able to articulate the question on this thread in a way that benefits himself most. Besides that the forums are a great resource for all yoga related Q/A
Just a thought |
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bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - Dec 14 2010 : 8:19:07 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Kirtanman
...when awareness is simply living as wholeness ... questions or concerns about death of body or limited mind are simply not applicable.
Kirtanman
I can relate to that from experience: there was a time when I thought I had experienced death of the mortal body but in the moments afterward, when I was perceptually without a body, I could not care less whether my body had died or not. As you say it was "simply not applicable." All that mattered was the moment, and that was perfect without reference to physical form. I had thoughts of wondering what had become of my physical body, but they were not at all worried thoughts, more like blissful curiosities that quickly passed. And then there was a gap with no body, no thought, no faculty of thought before "tada" -- what you might call "wholeness" (everything in the ordinary world the same, but mysteriously transformed).
It was however a time-limited experience. In the now of this writing, I have no doubt that "I" the person writing this post, have a physical, mortal body that is not yet physically dead, and that is relevant because it is with this physical body that this text is being typed. When my body dies, so do "I" -- this "I" that is typing.
Although I now have a constant access to a sort of "awareness" that is outside of "form" -- this "awareness" is an ongoing aspect of my experience since the simulated death -- and I suspect that I could quite easily learn to talk/type from that perspective. It would be sort of like "channeling" in that my body would be merely an instrument of a higher "self." However, at present I choose not to operate in that mode. I choose to be body-identified (which is different from just assuming body identification as the only option).
How does that relate to your approach?
Be |
Edited by - bewell on Dec 14 2010 8:42:55 PM |
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - Dec 14 2010 : 8:53:03 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by bewell
quote:
Originally posted by Kirtanman
...when awareness is simply living as wholeness ... questions or concerns about death of body or limited mind are simply not applicable.
Kirtanman
I can relate to that from experience: there was a time when I thought I had experienced death of the mortal body but in the moments afterward, when I was perceptually without a body, I could not care less whether my body had died or not. As you say it was "simply not applicable." All that mattered was the moment, and that was perfect without reference to form. I had thoughts of wondering what had become of my physical body, but they were not at all worried thoughts, more like blissful curiosities that quickly passed.
It was however a time-limited experience. In the now of this writing, I have no doubt that "I" the person writing this post, have a physical, mortal body that is not yet physically dead, and that is relevant because it is with this physical body that this text is being typed.
Although I now have a constant access to a sort of "awareness" that is outside of "form" -- this "awareness" is an ongoing aspect of my experience since the simulated death -- and I suspect that I could quite easily learn to talk/type from that perspective. But it would be sort of like "channeling" in that my body would be merely an instrument of a higher "self." However, at present I choose not to operate in that mode. I choose to be body-identified (which is different from just assuming body identification as the only option).
How does that relate to your approach?
Be
Hi Bewell,
Good info - this clarifies a lot - thanks.
I don't really have an approach -- it's more that I had similar experiences that finally became permanent - the sense of being awareness, rather than the body at first.
Then, of being awareness with the body kind of within it.
Then, of being awareness with everything in it -- with the everything not separate from the awareness.
The trajectory of sadhana for me was the trajectory from narrowness to wholeness.
And yes, when I first started experiencing what you described, I did naturally expand into awareness "living a body-mind" ... but very briefly; it felt artificial - and I don't do artificial.
Ultimately, I experienced a state of expansive oneness that resolved into an ongoing wholeness.
It's a bit hard to describe, but all elements of transcendence become non-separated from objects --- the words make it sound a lot stranger/"loftier" than it was in experience --- in experience, it was kind of like awareness/sense-of-self (including "no sense of self") was trying on different pairs of existential glasses --- in experience, none of these states felt strange, just like the "new thing", or new condition, and I just kept going.
I use the word awareness a lot ... but when I write awareness, I mean "including everything in awareness" - I mean wholeness.
The primary quality is its reality, its solidity.
When imagination finally fades as a way of life, as a sense of self, it all gets very, very real.
So real, it's really not thought about, or talked about, much at all -- except in settings like the forum here, or retreats - which may make it seem like some of us discuss it a lot - when, in actuality, when we're away from this kind of venue -- we're just living.
The only difference from the past is: there are no artificial concepts causing suffering, any longer.
And so, everything is just tangibly integrated -- but not thought about, or experienced as unusual. The transcendence of awareness beyond the body-mind resolved into a natural integration - "awareness is wholeness", as we say on the Living Unbound site.
It's kind of a "best of both worlds" thing ... all the benefits of really living unbound via a body-mind, and all the benefits of simple awareness, free of the body-mind, yet integrated with it.
The thing that feels like it's changed is the identification with the body - there's living via a sense of a specific body-mind ... but no undue concerns about its welfare -- just normal living, and when it ceases to function, it ceases to function. Everything happens as it happens, including every breath, right up to the last one, and it's all just fine.
Could that be experienced as different, in actual experience? Anything's possible, but even a few years ago, when I had a couple of serious health scares, fear wasn't there. It's the ideas about things that falls away; what's going on is what's going on, regardless of what it is, and it can't be non-fine, if it's what's going on ---- that idea does not compute, any longer (nor does much else!  )
The last aspect that seems a bit different than what you describe, is that before, I felt more like a person experiencing such-and-such (transcendence, body-identification, etc.) -- now, there's no real sense of personhood at all, which, ironically, makes for far more natural "personhood" than when there was the secondary evaluation of it - always.
And so, living is much less static, and much more process --- with experiences sometimes being "regular human being" (but without the artificial "I" sense), sometimes awareness alone (without even awareness of awareness) - but that's pretty rare, currently. There's a sense of access to the full spectrum, and awareness that life is living itself, and therefore no need to artificially induce any specific state.
I'm not sure how clearly that answers your question; I hope it does, at least somewhat.
Wholeheartedly,
Kirtanman
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - Dec 14 2010 : 8:57:43 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by sambo
thankyou kirtanman for your response, you are a wise man i enjoy reading your posts.
Death awareness is something i find to be a powerful tool in helping me to let go. That in the scheme of things my little (story) and desires are really not that important,for i shall return to infinity. that is a liberating thought indeed.
Thanks, Sambo; I'm glad my response was useful.
And yes, it's all about not only liberating thoughts ... but letting the truly liberating thoughts liberate us from thought (there's no fear of death if we're not thinking about it. )
That doesn't mean we live with no thoughts - we just stop being attached to them, and in the unattachment, the completely imaginary ones (i.e. fear of death) tend to fall away completely.
It takes a bit of time and practice, usually ... but as you can imagine  ... in experience, it's truly priceless ... and worth whatever it takes, to live naturally.
Wholeheartedly,
Kirtanman
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bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - Dec 22 2010 : 9:29:39 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by sambo
...what happens after you die or what happens after you are enlightend and then die.
I discovered this evening that a year ago Yogani addressed the question of what happens after death in Lesson 376 – Beyond Death
http://www.aypsite.org/376.html
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - Dec 23 2010 : 9:23:48 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by bewell
quote:
Originally posted by sambo
...what happens after you die or what happens after you are enlightend and then die.
I discovered this evening that a year ago Yogani addressed the question of what happens after death in Lesson 376 – Beyond Death
http://www.aypsite.org/376.html
Yes - what Yogani is saying in that lesson is what I've been saying.
As always, Yogani has a very simple and clear way of expressing things, so I'm hoping his words may have helped clarify, in places where you may have found my words unclear.
And thanks for this, Bewell -- I had forgotten about this lesson.
Wholeheartedly,
Kirtanman
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tonightsthenight
846 Posts |
Posted - Dec 23 2010 : 10:37:15 PM
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Well, there is certainly nothing to fear in death. Death is only another birth. Anyways, there are other lives to live and we will live in many places, and we don't just go to the great brahmanic oneness when we die. There are many layers to this universe and it isn't a question of either 3dimensional earth or pure spirit ecstasy/bliss.
Lots of adventures still! So you should have hope for death and not fear! |
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bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - Dec 27 2010 : 5:37:23 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by sambo
Not sure if such a thing can be answered...
I am intrigued by sambo's saying "Not sure if such a thing can be answered." I was reminded of that today when I was reading Yogani's Lesson 403 "The Question with No Answer"
http://www.aypsite.org/403.html
Yogani wrotes: "...after it is all said and done, it boils down to the one question that has no answer: Who or what am I?...
We say our true nature is blissful, conscious and absolute. But is it any of these things when the body is no longer functioning? When we are kissed on this earth plane (or any other plane) by the essence of who and what we are, we may experience these attributes, discuss them with excitement, and feel some satisfaction. Yet, none of these experiences are the answer, because they all will pass away. But something doesn’t. And what is that?
While there can be no answer to the question "Who or what am I?" we can realize we are that, become that, simply by letting go of the need to know. As soon as we surrender the heart and the mind, we are unadulterated That. This is not an answer. It is a condition....
...practice and become That. Then we become the answer to the question that has no answer." |
Edited by - bewell on Dec 27 2010 5:40:45 PM |
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - Dec 27 2010 : 9:55:05 PM
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Thanks, Bewell - I agree.
Yogani has a couple of related comments in Lesson 376, that you mentioned earlier in this thread, which equate to my experience as well:
"We can cultivate as a direct experience in this lifetime, we have always been pure bliss consciousness, and are only imagining we are this body/mind and personality. From that point of view, we have never been born, and therefore shall never die. Neither do we exist in the subtle planes before birth or after death."
&
"It means little until we begin to come into direct experience of our self as the eternal unborn condition. Then we can say we are That."
& finally, and most pertinently:
"Practice daily, and it will happen. Not overnight, but in time with prudent application of time-tested methods. This is the best preparation for death, and will transcend it altogether during this life, because ultimately we are That which is beyond birth and death, here and now. So there is no before or after. Only now. It can be done. It is being done, by many everywhere around the world today."
As you pointed out, by consciously knowing ourselves as That -- by consciously being this that we each and all ever actually are, now - any questions about possible future conditions simply don't apply.
And also, as an FYI to all - when I use the term "awareness", I specifically mean the changeless light of our true nature - Prakasha in Sanskrit.
The experience of awareness is not the same as awareness; all experience is reflective, and as Bewell pointed out, is part of that which does pass away, or rather, which is constantly changing - Vimarsha, in Sanskrit.
Prakasha and Vimarsha are also known by the names Shiva and Shakti.
Wholeheartedly,
Kirtanman
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manigma
India
1065 Posts |
Posted - Dec 28 2010 : 06:08:16 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by sambo
I have been having a discussion with a friend in regards to what happens after you die or what happens after you are enlightend and then die.
A normal person will go into a DREAM STATE immediately after death. Till next birth, he/she will have bad dreams (Hellish) or good dreams (Heavenly) according to his/her Karma.
Consider being tortured, burning endlessly for years  ... or making love in paradise, eating your favorite food and never getting tired of its taste.
Sounds like fun isn't it? 
A normal person can not distinguish a dream from reality. Similarly, after death, a normal being suffers or has fun in other worlds while in a dream like state, which is forgotten at birth, but surely leaves a mark in the mind/soul.
Enlightened ones do not dream. Enlightened ones do not die... because they do not exist!
What I mean by an 'Enlightened One' is the physical body, an empty container... a shadow... that will disappear in time like an echo.
You can try to define an Enlightened one... but Enlightenment itself is indefinable, beyond words and comprehension.
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wakeupneo
USA
171 Posts |
Posted - Dec 29 2010 : 11:31:33 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by manigma
quote:
Originally posted by sambo
I have been having a discussion with a friend in regards to what happens after you die or what happens after you are enlightend and then die.
A normal person will go into a DREAM STATE immediately after death. Till next birth, he/she will have bad dreams (Hellish) or good dreams (Heavenly) according to his/her Karma.
Consider being tortured, burning endlessly for years ... or making love in paradise, eating your favorite food and never getting tired of its taste.
Sounds like fun isn't it?
A normal person can not distinguish a dream from reality. Similarly, after death, a normal being suffers or has fun in other worlds while in a dream like state, which is forgotten at birth, but surely leaves a mark in the mind/soul.
Enlightened ones do not dream. Enlightened ones do not die... because they do not exist!
What I mean by an 'Enlightened One' is the physical body, an empty container... a shadow... that will disappear in time like an echo.
You can try to define an Enlightened one... but Enlightenment itself is indefinable, beyond words and comprehension.
Right, this is the same way Nisargadatta put it. One who is not awake, at the time of death the dream continues.
I've contemplated this quite a bit. For the sage, at the time of death, is the end of all individuality... The sage merges into the universal. A pure subjective experience, no subject object, just THAT....
so for an enlightened sage, death means annihilation. Believe the Buddha used the metaphor of blowwing out a candle flame.
so becareful what you wish for AYPers :) |
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manigma
India
1065 Posts |
Posted - Dec 30 2010 : 03:24:10 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by wakeupneo
For the sage, at the time of death, is the end of all individuality...
The sage is gone (the flame is extinguished) the moment of Enlightenment.
What remains behind for us is just Emptiness.
Emptiness walking... Emptiness talking... bunch of memories that gave the sage its personality.
Imagine you are standing on one side of a bridge... you cross the bridge and move to the other side... but yet you are standing behind where you started. Its like the anti-matter phenomenon.
After Enlightenment, what remains is the Anti-Sage.
This I call an Enlightened One... what we hear from Nisargadatta and Buddha is actually being said by Anti-Nisargadatta... Anti-Buddha.
They are just like a finger pointing to the moon... the other side of the bridge.
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tonightsthenight
846 Posts |
Posted - Dec 30 2010 : 12:20:57 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by manigma
quote:
Originally posted by wakeupneo
For the sage, at the time of death, is the end of all individuality...
The sage is gone (the flame is extinguished) the moment of Enlightenment.
What remains behind for us is just Emptiness.
Emptiness walking... Emptiness talking... bunch of memories that gave the sage its personality.
Imagine you are standing on one side of a bridge... you cross the bridge and move to the other side... but yet you are standing behind where you started. Its like the anti-matter phenomenon.
After Enlightenment, what remains is the Anti-Sage.
This I call an Enlightened One... what we hear from Nisargadatta and Buddha is actually being said by Anti-Nisargadatta... Anti-Buddha.
They are just like a finger pointing to the moon... the other side of the bridge.
Hehehehehe
Emptiness and fullness at the same time 
Or, i like the term completeness. |
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wakeupneo
USA
171 Posts |
Posted - Dec 30 2010 : 2:12:17 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by manigma
quote:
Originally posted by wakeupneo
For the sage, at the time of death, is the end of all individuality...
The sage is gone (the flame is extinguished) the moment of Enlightenment.
What remains behind for us is just Emptiness.
Emptiness walking... Emptiness talking... bunch of memories that gave the sage its personality.
Imagine you are standing on one side of a bridge... you cross the bridge and move to the other side... but yet you are standing behind where you started. Its like the anti-matter phenomenon.
After Enlightenment, what remains is the Anti-Sage.
This I call an Enlightened One... what we hear from Nisargadatta and Buddha is actually being said by Anti-Nisargadatta... Anti-Buddha.
They are just like a finger pointing to the moon... the other side of the bridge.
Duality can never be fully transcended in this dimension. If that were the case the sage would not be able to function in the world. There must still be some sense of individuality or the sage would cease to exist. While the sage might know and fully have embodied truth, the personality/character which manifests and interacts with creation still maintains duality.
As far as things being said by the anti-nisargadatta, the anti-buddha--- the minute they often there mouths and sound is produced to represent some sort of meaning, duality has come back into the picture.
Upon death, of the enlightened, this last vestige of whatever is left of the individual is cast off.
anyways, this is john's limited/finite viewpoint on the unlimated/infinite. |
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manigma
India
1065 Posts |
Posted - Dec 31 2010 : 01:19:06 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by tonightsthenight
Hehehehehe
Emptiness and fullness at the same time
Or, i like the term completeness.
Whatever you like. But unfortunately every word has a limitation.
Nothing can be said about it.
No word can define it.
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manigma
India
1065 Posts |
Posted - Dec 31 2010 : 01:29:43 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by wakeupneo
Duality can never be fully transcended in this dimension. If that were the case the sage would not be able to function in the world.
Yes, this is what scientists say too, matter and anti-matter can not exist together. When they join, they explode and become energy again.
quote:
There must still be some sense of individuality or the sage would cease to exist. While the sage might know and fully have embodied truth, the personality/character which manifests and interacts with creation still maintains duality.
Ofcourse the personality remains dual. But its just the personality, not the Sage. The Sage is dead!
quote:
As far as things being said by the anti-nisargadatta, the anti-buddha--- the minute they often there mouths and sound is produced to represent some sort of meaning, duality has come back into the picture.
The Anti-nisargadatta and the Anti-buddha already exist in duality. There is no Nisargadatta or Buddha.
They have gone to That side of the bridge.
If you ask them who they are? I bet you know what the reply would be.
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after death
