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Ajita
Netherlands
19 Posts |
 Posted - Mar 07 2006 : 05:00:16 AM
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Dear Yogani,
Are you also interested in my revolutionary discovery of the Subtle Anatomy in 1986 and the amazing new approach of Kriya's, Pranayama and Mudra's of the Hatha Yoga Pradika?
The International Yoga Federation has highly honoured me for that.
If so, you can find free downloads on my site www.raja-yoga.org .
Yours friendly,
Shri Yogacharya Ajita |
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yogani
USA
5201 Posts |
Posted - Mar 07 2006 : 10:41:15 AM
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Hi Ajita:
I assume you are referring to this booklet you wrote on subtle anatomy: http://www.xs4all.nl/~rajayoga/EN/S...eAnatomy.pdf
Thank you for sharing your insights on spiritual anatomy. It is a nice exposition on the double helix effect of shiva and shakti energies. It is the DNA helix analog found on more than one level within us, and tying in with super string theory too, yes? We have covered that here in a much simplified way, focusing mainly on the counter-directional swirling of ascending and descending energies around the spinal nerve (ida and pingala around sushumna). It is covered in the AYP lessons too. It only gets a brief mention because it is not part of AYP spinal breathing practice. In AYP we always favor the procedure of the practice over experiences that come up so as not to diverge our attention from causes into the effects, which can defeat the practice and our progress.
That said, I am aware that other systems work outside the spinal nerve (main highway), directly within other energy pathways as practice. Is that the case in your system? If so, I am sure many here will be interested in how you address it in way that is both simple and globally effective. Those are the watchwords here: simplicity and effectiveness. I think the future of yoga for the masses lies in that kind of approach -- finding the primary levers that anyone can use for easily promoting and managing the complex process of human spiritual transformaiton.
It is like what the graphical user interface (GUI) and "point and click" did for the masses in computing. A person no longer needs to be writing complex computer code to reach high levels of productivity on a computer, like all of we non-programmers are doing here right now.
When yoga goes this route, and everyone can master the complex process of human spiritual transformation with an open system of simple practices that can be easily managed (self-paced), then we will truly enter the age of spiritual practices, just like we entered the information age over the past few decades when the controls were simplified and disseminated to everyone. Every age has had this essential characteristic in common -- the ability to utilize complex processes in nature via refinements to the simplest, most effective and universally available methods of application. When it is made simple enough so everyone can do it, the "next age" begins in earnest.
Well, I will get off my soapbox now.  Please do share what you can on pranayama practice, keeping in mind that we are a bunch of numbskulls here (especially me), always seeking the holiest of grails -- the simplest and most effective application of the principles of human spiritual transformation.
Many thanks for joining in the discussion!
The guru is in you.
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Mar 07 2006 : 6:30:35 PM
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| Not me. I'm exceptionally intelligent. But I'm really lazy, and prefer not thinking to thinking, so please keep it simple for me too. |
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Ajita
Netherlands
19 Posts |
Posted - Mar 08 2006 : 05:17:38 AM
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Dear Yogani,
You try to let me believe that you are a bunch of numbskulls (especially you), but how can you then summarize so perfectly in one sentence "It is the DNA helix analog found on more than one level within us, and tying in with super string theory too, yes?" where I need 16 pages?
Apart from that, I totally agree with you that "Ce qui se concoit bien, s'énonce clairement!" or "What is fairly understood, is clearly explained in words!"
Let knowledge come to all people of good will.
Yours friendly,
Shri Yogacharya Ajita |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Mar 08 2006 : 1:43:57 PM
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quote:
You try to let me believe that you are a bunch of numbskulls
Excellent point.
But you're not fully hearing Yogani's meaning, when he talks about simplicity. Simplicity means a lot of things. Yes, one meaning involves making things easy for people who can't handle difficulty. But there's a lot more to it.
Mixed in with nearly every spiritual teacher's instructions are dubious and even silly or arbitrary directives. Hey, teachers did what they did to get their knowledge, and they don't take a very scientific attitude toward trying to figure out what the EFFECTIVE elements were and what was mere luggage carried along. They themselves aren't sure exactly which actions have led to exactly what result, so they dump it all back, with all the details they were taught plus all the details they've added on...most of them irrelevant.
Say I had great success meditating in a blue shirt for thirty years in front of a small river. So I tell students they must buy blue shirts and find a small river. Or "my teacher told me to hum 'Eleanor Rigby' while doing pranayama...and it worked for me!" Or "my tradition meditates with the hands intertwined like THIS." Etc, etc.
Most teachers present a big messy hairball which contains some chunks of useful spiritual truths and lots of random things that might have an effect and plenty of accummulated superstition that never gets stripped away.
In the past, students were initiated into a tradition, agreeing to adopt the full hairball (in order to benefit from the chunks therein). I don't have patience for that. I'm not docile enough to buy the random stuff, the arbitrary stuff, the superstitious stuff. I don't work that way, and most westerners (easterners, increasingly, too) don't work that way, either. And metaphorical language is something I love in poetry and art, but not in spiritual practice. I want concrete, clear instructions...not because I'm stupid, but because my bhakti is pushing me to do something and I want to know exactly what to do! Overblown language and heavy handed metaphor makes me less clear on what specifically to do. Give me pragmatic advice on the practice I need to do, and then (and only then!) shower me with poetry to entice my heart! Otherwise, it's just more stuff tangling up inside the hairball!
And ancient metaphorical systems don't speak to me. They're "not my culture". I'm a modern urban westerner, and if I must think, feel, and be communicated with as if I was a medieval rural Indian adept in order to walk this path, then it's NOT a universal path for all mankind. Most teachers force me to do my own translation, and that's a daunting task (when the practice, itself, is daunting!). If I'm handed a metaphorical framework, I will try to cut through it to figure out exactly what's said and what's meant. If I'm given a hairball, I will try pick out the beneficial chunks. If I'm told 150 things, half of which sound like luggage, I will try to winnow the pearls.
What Yogani is suggesting, I believe, is that a teacher can do that work for the student. And then disseminate in the clearest and most efficacious and efficient way possible. And I really appreciate Yogani's efforts to predigest these teachings and provide a sensible, stripped-to-the-essence framework. If he were a woman, I'd kiss him (her?). I haven't changed my dress, I haven't taken a Sanskrit name, I haven't joined a tribe, adopted a hairball, or started "thinking Indian". I've not devoted my life to this, just an hour a day. It fits my life, my culture, and my lifestyle....so I"m going to keep doing it (it's not something I'm just "into" for a while).
Is the end result "lite" or diluted or pandered or condescended? No. I feel like all my ties are getting looser and looser and that delusion and illusion are being flushed out and replaced with bliss and peace. Surrender feels real, control feels like the dream. I hardly ever grasp or recoil anymore (and when I do get caught, it's rarely for more than a few moments). I fully enjoy traffic jams, and can't imagine why anyone else wouldn't. So there's something to it...... |
Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Mar 08 2006 1:55:51 PM |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Mar 08 2006 : 3:32:57 PM
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So why can't you just enjoy the hairballs? 
I agree. It's an amazing thing Yogani has done, and I don't know why he is able to do it when so many before him couldn't, but i'm grateful.
And a numbskull wouldn't be able to assimilate the knowledge from hundreds of books!
Maybe past teachings just prove that following the enlightenment path doesn't give one magical powers to simplify things. But then what has Yogani tapped into?
maybe just being a good communicator or teacher at the right time when spiritual energy is increasing?
Whatever it is may be as hidden as the way yoga knowledge used to be taught,
so I'm just glad to be connected with it. it very well could be THE reason I chose to reincarnate here and now. |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Mar 08 2006 : 3:40:00 PM
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i just figured it out. Yogani has been sent by God himself. "Easy Lessons for Ecstatic Living" is the Holy Word. Let's change a few passages so it says this is the ONLY way, start a religion, and convert people!!!
I'm getting a suit and a bicycle. Who's with me?
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Mar 08 2006 : 4:19:37 PM
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Yogani doesn't have a monopoly. Others have stripped down and integrated spiritual practices, too. Lots of lesser known names, plus some big names, e.g. Mantak Chia, Ram Dass, Depak Chopra, Sailor Bob, Ramana Maharshi...and, shoot, let's not forget Maharishi Mahesh Yogi! Or even Bikram.
Some of those people (and other people I could add) are a little skewed, some a little narrow. None have done exactly what Yogani's done, but I could point to individual things from all those guys that I'd like to see in AYP, too.
Neither Yogani nor I is suggesting that teachers with lots of interesting things to say ought to abandon it all and go out there and teach AYP! It's not by ANY means the "only" way. What's suggested is that teachers strive to find and express the gist. And in that way, they can make it alive and fresh and relevant. Each generation and culture must find a new way to express it, because, unlike India circa 1500, culture's changing fast. What's needed is to extract the gist, the germ, of all this stuff if we're not to be left feeling smothered under heavy blankets of previously glommed-on patchwork. And there are a multitude of ways to do this.......and let a multitude of ways surface.
Me? I like AYP. |
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Ajita
Netherlands
19 Posts |
Posted - Mar 08 2006 : 5:30:44 PM
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Dear Jim and His Karma,
Why do you think I have a "hairball approach"? What sentences or words have suggested that to you?
Maybe it is better that you know that I am a fan of Yogani and his approach and that I wish everybody busy with spirituality could be as straight and easy to understand.
What is also your problem with a methaphor? Is it to difficult to understand that dreams can have a meaning?
Why is it wrong for you that people in ancient times used methaphors to express things for which they could not find the right words?
Yours friendly,
Shri Yogacharya Ajita |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Mar 08 2006 : 5:38:13 PM
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Jim said:
Say I had great success meditating in a blue shirt for thirty years in front of a small river. So I tell students they must buy blue shirts and find a small river.
Just as a by-the-way here (not referring to Ajita's methods), this exact sort of thing happens and it can be a tragic waste. One of the founders of a major school of Zen 'became enlightened' while chanting and he turned the whole school into a major chanting school, where, in my opinion, there is not enough meditation any more. 
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Edited by - david_obsidian on Mar 08 2006 5:58:13 PM |
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Richard
United Kingdom
857 Posts |
Posted - Mar 08 2006 : 7:22:18 PM
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Yea its that old cat tied to the staff thing isn't it
RICHARD |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Mar 08 2006 : 11:16:01 PM
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quote:
Why do you think I have a "hairball approach"?
I'm sorry that you thought I was attacking you personally. I don't know anything about your teaching at all, so I couldn't possibly be criticizing you!
Please reread the discussion: Yogani made a suggestion about one possible way a concept might be taught. You replied, with the (understandable) impression that Yogani was suggesting a "dumbed down" approach (i.e. for "numbskulls"...great word, by the way!). I was trying to explain why simple doesn't mean condescension or dilution. My case for simplicity pointed to my impression (and others') that the vast majority of yoga teachings are way more tangled and complicated and opaque and superstitious than they ought to be. I thought that was an undeniable truth, but if you or others disagree, it just proves the point (I believe Patanjali coined this phrase): "different strokes for different folks"!
J&K
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Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Mar 08 2006 11:16:29 PM |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Mar 09 2006 : 09:13:47 AM
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What is the cat tied to the staff, Richard? Some old fable I am unaware of?
quote:
Originally posted by azaz932001
Yea its that old cat tied to the staff thing isn't it
RICHARD
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Mar 09 2006 : 09:17:23 AM
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Jim said:
You replied, with the (understandable) impression that Yogani was suggesting a "dumbed down" approach
I didn't read that from what Ajita said. Perhaps the misunderstanding began there? I saw Ajita merely giving Yogani (and the rest of us) a wry compliment.
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Mar 09 2006 : 11:12:01 AM
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Wow, I'm lost! I just reread it, and I can't see it any other way than the way I did (though it certainly explains Ajita's most recent reply!)
This, my friends, is a failure to communicate (and apparently my fault!) |
Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Mar 09 2006 11:12:59 AM |
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Ajita
Netherlands
19 Posts |
Posted - Mar 09 2006 : 11:23:32 AM
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Dear Jim and His Karma,
OK, I am at peace now that it only looks a misunderstanding. Let us forget this. There are more important things in life. Pranayama, for example.
Yours friendly,
Shri Yogacharya Ajita |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Mar 09 2006 : 12:04:49 PM
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Ummmmm, Ajita, before there are further slights and misunderstandings, may I tell you (and indeed the rest of the forum) tha the correct protocol address of Jim is "Dear Jim and Your Karma" (not "His Karma")?
(That's a joke. )
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Mar 09 2006 : 12:07:44 PM
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This particular co-dependency requires no particular form of address.
--Jim's Karma |
Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Mar 09 2006 12:08:31 PM |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Mar 09 2006 : 12:41:45 PM
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I know. I'm co-dependently trying to present my own grammatical needs (because that phrase jars on my grammar centers all the time) as your need for proper address.
All, do it for me, if not for Jim. I don't ask for much.
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Edited by - david_obsidian on Mar 09 2006 12:42:11 PM |
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Ajita
Netherlands
19 Posts |
Posted - Mar 10 2006 : 04:58:57 AM
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Dear Yogani,
The essence of Subtle Anatomy is that every being is completely build out of a double helix energy stream and that we only see a part manifesting before our eyes. All different levels and tissues are interlinked. Because of obstacles, impurities, the original balance between both streams is disturbed. Sickness and aging is the result. See the free download "Subtle Anatomy".
The essence of Pranayama is that every human being can restore the balance and regain his original balance, which theoretically means physical immortality. See the free download "Hatha Yoga Pradipika".
That is the discovery I made and that I offer to you and to my fellow human beings, because I feel your and his pain.
Yours friendly,
Shri Yogacharya Ajita |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Mar 10 2006 : 05:02:54 AM
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Thank you, Ajita
May all your Nows be Here |
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Ajita
Netherlands
19 Posts |
Posted - Mar 10 2006 : 05:40:18 AM
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Dear Yogani,
You said:
I am aware that other systems work outside the spinal nerve (main highway), directly within other energy pathways as practice. Is that the case in your system? If so, I am sure many here will be interested in how you address it in way that is both simple and globally effective.
Maybe I can try to explain:
Our spinal nerve system is indeed a very important, maybe the most important base of our being as you have understood, but it is still only a partial manifestation of the totality of our being.
Especially when we are mentally and emotionally harmonious, calm (Sattva) our subtle energy is connecting to and filling our nerve system. Then our sensory organs as hearing, sensing, seeing, tasting and smelling (Jnanendriya's) can occur.
When we are passive (Tamas) our subtle energy condense and feed our gross tissues (sound, gaseous, warmth, liquid and hard matter) resulting in the manifestation of an inactive gross body. This happens mainly during our sleep. At the same time hormones are produced in our endocrine glands, being the cristalization points of our Cakra's.
When we are active (Rajas) our subtle energy expands and causes excretion, sexual activity, movement of the legs or arms and hands, and speech (Karmendriya's). Then also the hormones are expelled from the endocrine glands into the blood stream, providing the necessary information to the further regulation of our physical body.
That is simple and globally effective? If so, I can explain more.
Yours friendly,
Shri Yogacharya Ajita |
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yogani
USA
5201 Posts |
Posted - Mar 10 2006 : 09:08:06 AM
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Hi Ajita:
You are describing natural processes in a very clear way. But what is the practice? That is where the simplicity and effectiveness matter the most.
The guru is in you.
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Ajita
Netherlands
19 Posts |
Posted - Mar 11 2006 : 06:57:07 AM
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Dear Yogani,
The control of the above mentioned energy processes is rather simple.
As explained in my free Hatha Yoga Pradipika, the basic principle is that you only have to guard the two cosmic nostrils (Chandra and Surya Bindu) and regulate inflow, outflow or retention. It is obvious that the whole energy system, lying between those two "nostrils" is then under control. For example, you have a lack of Shiva energy, then you let Shiva in trough Chandra Bindu. Lack of both, Shiva and Shakti? Just command mentally the inflow of both together, Shiva via Chandra Bindu and Shakti via Surya Bindu...
The beauty of the system lies also in the reduced set of exercices. Only eight exercices permit you to control your whole energy system!
Yours friendly,
Shri Yogacharya Ajita |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Mar 13 2006 : 09:47:30 AM
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Ajita said:
basic principle is that you only have to guard the two cosmic nostrils (Chandra and Surya Bindu) and regulate inflow, outflow or retention.
Ajita, these are not instructions that people can in general follow, in their current form. In that sense, your practice is not explained there.
That is the difference with Yogani's methods. By and large they can all be followed by a large number, maybe the majority of people, in the form in which they already exist (of course no set of instructions can be followed by all people).
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Edited by - david_obsidian on Mar 13 2006 10:17:22 AM |
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yogani
USA
5201 Posts |
Posted - Mar 13 2006 : 10:53:40 AM
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Hi Ajita:
David is right. On the other hand, no one expects you to change your mode of teaching overnight, which is geared to personal face-to-face instruction, like most teachings traditionally have been. That being the case, the most we can reasonably ask for is an outline of your system, which you have generously given some of, and it is much appreciated. The more you are comfortable sharing on yoga across the board, the better for everyone.
What we are doing here in AYP is a new approach -- a grand experiment, you might say, seeing how much can be conveyed in writing. It is not for everyone. At the same time, the ability of many to pick up and go with detailed written instructions alone has been gratifying.
The biggest revelation has been the high level of responsibility in self-pacing that nearly all practitioners have displayed with wide-open availability of advanced practices leading to many new experiences. This puts to rest once and for all the perennial argument that seekers cannot be trusted with practices without a lot of personal handholding by a guru. It just is not true, not in this time and place. The message of AYP is that most aspirants with a mind to, who have good information, can regulate their own practices.
That is a useful data point for teachers everywhere. If the practices are simple enough, effective enough and well-documented, much more can be conveyed much faster and we can get on with it, instead of staying mired in the inertia of the past.
No matter what the mode of instruction may be, I encourage all teachers to take note of the fact that much more can be done to provide access for the millions who are thirsting for knowledge of practices. It is simply a matter of giving the knowledge in a usable form to all who want it, and bypassing the artificial barriers and hierarchies that limit access. Open systems of practice are the wave of the future. This is how the world will be changed, and it is time.
This change will not put yoga teachers out of business. It will vastly increase the number of students, because direct assistance, follow-up and satsang on practices and the resulting experiences are always going to be necessary. This fledgling forum is an online example. It is only a matter of time before the discussion on self-directed practices overflows into the physical world in a big way.
The guru is in you.
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Ajita's method of Pranayama
