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kami
USA
921 Posts |
 Posted - Nov 22 2010 : 09:52:19 AM
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Hi all,
What are the guidelines for under-sensitive practitioners? I take self-pacing in general to mean "cut back". I don't believe I've ever had overload symptoms - when I started AYP, I rapidly added practices with no difficulty and also saw little in terms of "results" (feeling ecstatic conductivity, etc). It was only after the recent retreat in PA that many things started happening  . But the same retreat sent a few into overload. So, what does that mean for people like me?
1. More frequent retreats (solo or group)? If so, how frequent?
2. Add more practices? If so, what? Currently, it is a "full-plate" routine - 10 min SBP, chin pump X 2 each side, SBB, 20 min DM, 10 min samyama, YMK, 10 min rest. In the evenings due to lack of time, it is usually 10 min SBP, 20 min DM, 10 min rest. After the retreat, I went up to the first mantra enhancement.
3. Self-enquiry between practices?
4. Continue the above and be patient? 
Thanks for any input.
kami |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Nov 22 2010 : 10:46:00 AM
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Hi Kami
I was like you, really undersensitive to practices (or at least I thought I was  ), up until about 1 week after the retreat. Then I had a massive purification episode/opening and "the pendulum swung"....I went from undersensitive to oversensitive. I assume that the degree of sensitivity will fluxate and go through phases, just like everything else.
I think it is really important not to be too stubborn in our thinking. I say this because, well, I'm pretty stubborn in my thinking. I refused to acknowledge, for a long time, that I was overloading. Somewhere deep down inside I knew that I was "pushing things" but I really didn't want to admit this to myself. I was incredibly attached to my practice routine, and I was incredibly attached to the idea that if I did less practice it would drastically slow my "spiritual progression." Nothing could have been further from the truth. I have a whole new appreciation for Yogani's "Less is More" advice. Ever since I chose to back off of my extensive practice routine and essentially "start fresh/start again," I have found infinitely more progress happening. There seems to have been more progress made in the last 3 weeks then I think there was in the last 2.5years of hardcore practices.
How does this translate to your own experience? Well, I'm not sure. But I would suggest (and this is just a suggestion), that you take a really honest appraisal of what your experience is and what kind of a mindset you are approaching your practices with. Is it totally true that you have never experienced any overload ever? Based on what I saw at the retreat, I would suggest otherwise. (Just an outside observation). Perhaps you could take a little time to inquire into what kind of beliefs you have built around your practice routine. I say this purely because this is what needed to be honestly assessed in my own situation. I had some beliefs built up around my practices that needed to be dropped. Honestly inquiring into/choosing to see them gave me the space I needed to realize that I have been overloading for a while and that less practice was needed. And adjusting myself to a shorter, less intense practice schedule has really changed things here for the better. It has drastically increased the bhakti (because I really miss my "usual" practices) and it has brought about several important realizations here that were being obscured by over practicing and overload symptoms. I was just too stubborn to acknowledge this.
I'm not saying that you need to do exactly what I did in backing way off of the practices (I am currently doing 20 mins of DM followed by 20 mins of rest), I am just suggesting that you make an honest inquiry into how you are actually feeling and what kind of beliefs you have built up around your practice routine. It could be one of those "sometimes it is hard to see the forest for all the trees" kind of things.
Love you
Love!
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Nov 22 2010 : 11:36:22 AM
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Having done all the practices i did, i sincerely suggest toning things down even for under sensitive practitioners. You will wake up some day with massive overloading symptoms and you'll say good bye to sunshine then... And trust it's a lot more better to be under sensitive then over sensitive. Rapid adding of practices is a big No No in my humble opinion. Yogani did some pretty good suggestion, it would be wise to follow them to the letter. It's things like rapid adding and too much practices and inquiry that tend to lead to cases like mine. So better safe than sorry, tone things down...
Love,
Ananda |
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kami
USA
921 Posts |
Posted - Nov 22 2010 : 1:34:13 PM
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Carson and Ananda,
Thank you so much for your insights.
quote:
I think it is really important not to be too stubborn in our thinking.
You've hit it right on the head Carson - I can be too stubborn. Although I have noticed the beginnings of a softening around the edges of my thinking over the last few months, much work needs to be done there.
quote:
There seems to have been more progress made in the last 3 weeks then I think there was in the last 2.5years of hardcore practices.
I feel the same, but assume it was the retreat's influence, of course. I've probably gone from "under-sensitive" to "average-sensitive" because of the retreat Wonder if one reverts back to their inherent level of sensitivity once the effects of the retreat wear off. Do they wear off? Just wonder..
quote:
How does this translate to your own experience? Well, I'm not sure. But I would suggest (and this is just a suggestion), that you take a really honest appraisal of what your experience is and what kind of a mindset you are approaching your practices with. Is it totally true that you have never experienced any overload ever? Based on what I saw at the retreat, I would suggest otherwise. (Just an outside observation).
You give me food for thought. I must really do an honest appraisal of how I'm approaching practices. On initial thought, I can say I'm not excessively attached to the practices themselves, but it is entirely possible I'm attached to the results (or lack thereof, depending on pre- or post-retreat) . I'm *attached* to the expanding silence, inexplicable joy and peace. That attachment needs to be dropped too, I know. I'm not there yet. I'm also the kind that needs constant motivation to keep up with practices with uniform gusto. Did you really think I was suffering overload at the retreat? Hmmm - maybe I don't see it as overload.. I've always associated overload with energy imbalances that people actually feel, and that I have not had. And being someone that has a temper (yes, I know  ), I've actually noticed that the short fuse is a bit longer I've been distressed that anger continues to be an issue, but that's a whole different topic. All in all, if I've been overloaded, I've not been aware of it..
quote:
I'm not saying that you need to do exactly what I did in backing way off of the practices (I am currently doing 20 mins of DM followed by 20 mins of rest)
Thats good that you're not saying that . I'm afraid if I back off, it will be a Herculean task to get back on track..
Love you too.
kami |
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yogani
USA
5242 Posts |
Posted - Nov 22 2010 : 2:14:36 PM
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Hi Kami:
Under the category of under-sensitivity to deep meditation, Lesson 366 is offered, which is good for anyone looking to fine-tune the effectiveness of their deep meditation practice.
But your inquiry seems broader than that, as in asking, "How do I speed things up overall?"
Well, going through the lessons and adding practices on step-by-step is one way. But as Carson, Ananda and others (including me) will tell you, it can't be done overnight. And there are delayed effects associated with taking on practices too quickly, so a gradual approach is advised. You will have to find your own pace in taking on new practices in a way that will be stable for you. It is generally not advised to take on a new practice or enhancement to practice more often than every few months (one at a time). And even that is quite aggressive by traditional standards in yoga and spiritual practices. (Note: There are additional suggestions in Lesson 366 also.)
On the retreat side, yes, much can be gained by going several times per year to keep that deeper cycle of cultivating and stabilizing inner silence going. It is generally a stable way of moving ahead in larger steps without upsetting the apple cart, assuming additional practices are not being piled on when in retreat mode. Lessons 387 provides an overview on AYP retreats.
It is normal to notice some fade in the results of a retreat after a few months, and that may be a good time to think about doing another one. It should be mentioned that we get used to new openings pretty quickly, and what we might perceive as a fading in results from a retreat may actually be an acclimation to new openings that have not faded as much as it might seem. The people around you will know best.
In any case, it is normal for the results of practice to fade (and stabilize) in activity, whether from daily sittings (short cycle) or a retreat (long cycle). The fading will not take us all the way back to where we were before practice, but to a new level of opening that is stable within our normal daily routine. It is like a staircase, where we go 4 steps up and 2 steps back again and again, gaining a net of 2 steps every time we go through the cycle of practice and stabilizing the results in daily activity. There is a daily cycle in this with daily practices, and there can be a deeper cycle of several months also, corresponding to retreats we may undertake.
All the best!
The guru is in you.
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Nov 22 2010 : 2:31:44 PM
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Hi Kami
quote:
Originally posted by kami
You've hit it right on the head Carson - I can be too stubborn. Although I have noticed the beginnings of a softening around the edges of my thinking over the last few months, much work needs to be done there.
Just as an example (and I'm not at all saying this is how you are), here is how my stubbornness was affecting me:
I was too stubborn to even entertain the possibility that I was doing too much practice and that I was overloading. My ego was saying; "Look at me!! Look at how much yoga practice I'm doing! I'm soooo dedicated to Self Realization! I'm much special-er and WAY more dedicated then you!"  Blah. Blah. Blah.
This is how it often happens for me.... I push and push and push until I hit a brick wall and can't push anymore... Then, I'm forced to re-evaluate. So, upon (forced) re-evaluation, I realized that I was doing too much practice (fancy that!  ). It really came down to a "quality vs quantity" thing for me. And relaxing a little bit really helped. It also drastically increased the bhakti here because, well, I REALLY enjoy my practices and I miss them. But that just makes me even more amped to do my 20 mins of DM twice a day and keep it at that. And I really seem to get a lot more out of it now. I'm getting more out of 20 minutes twice a day of DM (even energetically) then I was doing an hour and a half of advanced practices twice a day. It seems so ass-backwards, but really, less is more.
quote:
Originally posted by kami
I feel the same, but assume it was the retreat's influence, of course.
I'd wager that the retreat had something to do with it.
quote:
Originally posted by kami
I've probably gone from "under-sensitive" to "average-sensitive" because of the retreat Wonder if one reverts back to their inherent level of sensitivity once the effects of the retreat wear off. Do they wear off? Just wonder..
Who knows? Everyone is different and everything seems to happen in phases/cycles. For me, the retreat seemed to peel away a few layers of "the onion." It made me "raw" again. I assume that in time the new "raw layers" will become de-sensitized somewhat and I will be able to go back to a fuller practice routine. And then, something will cause another layer of onion to be stripped away and I will once again be "raw" and need to back off. At least that is what my intuition is at this point.
quote:
Originally posted by kami
You give me food for thought.
Good. Then I've done what I set out to accomplish.
quote:
Originally posted by kami
I must really do an honest appraisal of how I'm approaching practices. On initial thought, I can say I'm not excessively attached to the practices themselves, but it is entirely possible I'm attached to the results (or lack thereof, depending on pre- or post-retreat). I'm *attached* to the expanding silence, inexplicable joy and peace. That attachment needs to be dropped too, I know. I'm not there yet.
Perhaps you aren't attached to the practices themselves, but perhaps you are attached to the idea that you aren't overloading or that you are undersensitive? Is that a possibility?
There's no problem (IMO) with having a desire for expanding inner silence, inexplicable joy and peace. If we had no desire for these things we likely wouldn't be doing practices at all. It's the attachment to the "this is where I am at" or "this is who I am" statements that seem to create obstacles. At least that is my experience.
quote:
Originally posted by kami
I'm also the kind that needs constant motivation to keep up with practices with uniform gusto.
In my experience the lasting motivation comes with some results (which you seem to be experiencing). With expanding inner silence, inexplicable joy and peace, comes motivation for more of these things. BUT, just because we want more silence/joy/peace doesn't mean we need to do more practices. Sometimes more practice actually creates less silence/joy/peace. That's definitely what was happening here anyways.
quote:
Originally posted by kami
Did you really think I was suffering overload at the retreat?
Yes, personally I do. Spontaneous, uncontrollable emotion can certainly be an overload symptom.
quote:
Originally posted by kami
Hmmm - maybe I don't see it as overload.. I've always associated overload with energy imbalances that people actually feel, and that I have not had.
This is why I suggest that you take some time to do an honest evaluation of exactly what is going on for you. Overload is not solely energetic. It is mental, physical, emotional, and more.
quote:
Originally posted by kami
And being someone that has a temper (yes, I know ), I've actually noticed that the short fuse is a bit longer I've been distressed that anger continues to be an issue, but that's a whole different topic. All in all, if I've been overloaded, I've not been aware of it..
It's wonderful that your temper fuse has been lengthened. A sign of good things happening for sure.
I'm not saying that you are overloading. I really can't know that anyways, only you can. I'm just suggesting that you take an honest look at what kind of physical, mental, spiritual, energetic effects are happening due to your practices...... both positive and negative. Throw out the beliefs that nothing is happening, that you are not overloading, just for a moment, and honestly inquire into what is happening for you....without an agenda one way or the other.
Best of luck my Sista!
Love!
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kami
USA
921 Posts |
Posted - Nov 22 2010 : 7:08:48 PM
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Yogani,
Thank you. When I read the lesson, it was as if it was written for me. I've read and re-read it; it is exactly what I needed. Thanks again.
Carson,
You're right of course. Much honest evaluation and ungrasping to do.
Back to my cave I go. Lot to ruminate on.
Kami
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Nov 23 2010 : 08:09:37 AM
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Hi Kami
quote:
I feel the same, but assume it was the retreat's influence, of course. I've probably gone from "under-sensitive" to "average-sensitive" because of the retreat Wonder if one reverts back to their inherent level of sensitivity once the effects of the retreat wear off. Do they wear off? Just wonder..
Meeting you and witnessing your opening at the retreat was very beautiful Kami. Something was happening in your heart that can never reverse itself.....you know this deep inside, yes? When we practice wisely - it is in my experience almost always "less is more". And if not - simply trust that inner silence will speak clearly if it is time to add anything. More often than not - it is our minds that want to add on. Out of worry that life may need a little help in order to speed up its own awakening. Well - it does not. It always knows what it is doing. So if you practice wisely - then this is enough. This is what we all can do - take proper responsibility for slowly letting go of the imagined major control stick. Over the years...when the silence spoke inside......it said: "What you are waiting for has already happened". My journals have this sentence in them at least once every 6 months or so. Silence kept reassuring - and I kept wondering. Gradually the trust grows.....even for stubborn vikings like me :)
The other thing that life has taught me over the years is that life itself will always present me with plenty of "outer situations" to match my inner level of growth (or lack thereof). In other words - instead of focusing on the practices outside of the practices () , more than anything...being honest with myself regarding my everyday interactions....how I wholeheartedly (or not) engage in daily life.....how I treat people.....how the challenges in life are met (or not)....the way I stay true to my heart (or not)......all this, if navigating through life not shying away from myself no matter what I see - then, with the help of meditation that cultivates the perceiving agent, this slowly leads to knowing all of myself . And in knowing all sides of myself - I am free. There is nothing to hide then. Nothing to defend. So here.....this integrity... is really true peace. And it has been here all along, no?
So worry not. What we are will never, ever "wear off". That is really the only thing that matters. All else is simply variations of how we experience this in manifestation. Sometimes there are highs, somtimes there are lows.....sometimes a lot of energy....other times not.....sometimes blissfull....other times not. It all changes all the time. But - what we are never changes. Gradually - through wise practice of meditation and self-inquiry - everything is more and more simplified. We become the knower of our lives......and from here nothing can really rock the boat. Not in the sense that all is happiness all the time - but in the sense that the relaxation and peace that comes from knowing (through simply being) that the essence IS. All that can be known we can then witness - this includes all kinds of experiences, also the blissfull ones. Like Yogani says - we actually become used to new levels of perceptions. Then what next? The unfolding never ends....so why get stuck on that? While everything is going on ......the silence is always here as itself. We are that - no matter how advanced we are on any path - we are always that.
That is what was so beautiful in what happened to you at the retreat Kami. You consciously found yourself inside yourself. Now you know - in a way that you didn't know before. Trust it 
quote:
Back to my cave I go. Lot to ruminate on.
Don't bother
Honestly - you do not have to ruminate. Only practice twice a day - and then keep watching how it all unfolds. Live an engaged life. It is in life that Truth really IS. Do not fix anything. Let it be the way it is. Let it be exposed to itself. This is how inner change happens over time.....
All the best and much love
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kami
USA
921 Posts |
Posted - Nov 23 2010 : 2:16:24 PM
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Hi Katrine
Thank you SO much! It was meeting you, Shanti, and others, being confronted by that dazzling beauty, joy and peace that was so inspiring to me, that lead to openings. It also led to realization of all of my own limitations, mind stories and obstacles - looking outside in from moments of crystal clarity. Of course, all the clamoring for anything is to have what someone you admire has - in this case, all of you wonderful people.
quote:
Something was happening in your heart that can never reverse itself.....you know this deep inside, yes?
Absolutely. I feel changed, different on a very deep level. Suddenly, everything I had been reading about came alive, as a direct experience - the witness, the "screen", everything being an object of perception, all of it. In a way, I am afraid of "losing" it, I suppose  Although counter-productive, a part of me wants to "push it", just in case..
quote:
So if you practice wisely - then this is enough. This is what we all can do - take proper responsibility for slowly letting go of the imagined major control stick.
You're right - have to let go of the control.. not easy for a control freak like me
Lets see how it all unfolds
Love you Katrine!
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Nov 24 2010 : 05:27:13 AM
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Hi Kami
quote:
You're right - have to let go of the control.. not easy for a control freak like me
We are all control freaks
But by allowing the simple fact that we are not able to let go of anything...which is the truth of the exact moment that you are describing.......this is when the inner fight stops. To acknowledge it as it is ......it is like a little "oh....I don't know how to let go, do I..." This is the truth ......and in the gap that follows the shock of that realization .......in that space that just revealed itself... we become available to ourselves. The real Self. This is how the truth sets us free. It is not that we let go. The letting go happens of itself when we realize that we don't in any way know how to let go..... and therefore we allow ourselves to become unemployed right there and then.
This allowing........and the direct perception of ourselves as the gap (and it's implicit intelligence) deepens with the help of practices like Deep Meditation.
quote:
In a way, I am afraid of "losing" it, I suppose Although counter-productive, a part of me wants to "push it", just in case..
Yes - it is very, very understandable that it is like this.....this is exactly the case.
Out of love....out of a deep longing to find ourselves as we truly are......it is no wonder that we are afraid to "loose it".....and wish to "push it". We know. Deep down we know what we are missing. And so we long for it. However - even when it is the Bhakti that is driving us - we can delude ourselves. It is my experience here that in "pushing"....... I don't have to feel the pain of whatever degree there is of separation. Because consciousness is hard to bear.... we tend to want to escape ourselves......even in the very moment that will reveal ourselves to ourselves.
But to instead stay with the fear and the wanting to push....to just watch it instead of acting on it... this is exposing ourselves to the light that we are. In that ...again and again the gaps gradually find each other.....and the moments of release and peace become more and more frequent.
It takes time. It takes perseverence. Patience. Gentleness. Consistent practice.
And yet - every single moment the release happens - we are in the space of light and love and clarity.
So that is very good news Kami - thanks again for sharing so openly
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Self-Pacing for the Under-sensitive
