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Jack
United Kingdom
305 Posts |
 Posted - Nov 05 2010 : 08:48:31 AM
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Hello,
I have a burning problem with repressed anger and my partner. It has to do with money also.
I feel a great amount of anger on the inside that does not find expression due to fear of rejection and/or conflict.
The surface situation to trigger this off is with my partner. She is in poor health and financial trouble. I am in financial hardship too but not to such asn extent as I work full-time whereas she is a student also doing part-ime work (and struggling with it).
She came down ill and the antibiotics the doctor gave her making her symptoms better but overall health deteriorate. We agreed I would order some special medicinals from America that are so-far appearing to help a lot. We agreed to go halves, or around halves, on the expenditure.
The products, shipping, plus unexpected customs charge mean this oder became some £110 or so in total. When asked what it would cost, I initially siad only £30-40. I said this out of fear. My real want was for £50. Later I mentioned perhaps needing more for it but she quickly and defencively mentioned new unexpected bills from the bank. So she did not pay the extra when I meekly asked fabout it.
She got paid from work last night, and she mentioned the bill again. I said "Yes, I remember you mentioning this bill when I was asking about money for the medicine, I originally said just £40 but maybe more would have been wlecome." or something equally ambiguous.
She ignored the comment, thoguh this morning, as I was running late for work, sghe suggested I just order a taxi. I said I did not have the money on me for one and she gave me some £20, saying thats enough for taxi and to bring some food back from work.
So, she either heard what I was saying and gave money towards, or was just generally being generous now she has been paid, tough still under stain.
Either way I feel a little relief that she offered some money, but still feel victimised and full of rage.
I want to call this peety of myself. At the same time I think I have a lifetime of unspoken wants and demands and it seems to be a very powerful trigger for my anger, which I constantly try to hide.
We are having a night in together tonight and I'm frightfully aware of how money discussions quickly lead to arguments between us.
Fear of opoverty, fear of not being 'respected' through the symbolic act of giving money, fear of conflict, etc.,
Any advice here? Is it wrong to be selfish after spending a life of trying to please people?
I should take this to my men's group on monday, but is there anything here to keep sane and keep us out of trouble tonight or over this weekend?
The ph7ysical anger is massive.
Please read this post in silence and let me know what you see.
I am often very generous with paying for meals, gifts, days out etc., But it is things where we agree to pay together, or agreed lends, etc., that really get my goat. Like it goes from 'giving' to 'agreement' and I become very uptight about it.
I am terrified to talking about this with her. We have had nasty fights in the past (mostly her doing the shouting)
Many thanks,
Jack |
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Jack
United Kingdom
305 Posts |
Posted - Nov 05 2010 : 09:55:00 AM
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| The feeling itself is like a powerful energy, flavoured of anger and fear but just energy beneath... I can almost feel an opening beneath it but unsure how to proceed. |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Nov 05 2010 : 10:20:29 AM
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I have had a similar discussion with someone quite recently and reading your post gives me the same sense. The sense that you feel betrayed in some way ?
Is that what produces those feelings of anger ? |
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Jack
United Kingdom
305 Posts |
Posted - Nov 05 2010 : 10:23:03 AM
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When one has inward repressed anger and goes through kundalini purification, how the hell do you deal with it! Any little thing will set this volcano off!!
Stopped doing practices over a week ago, though had a 'zero balancing' session a few days ago - bone-deep structural and energetic release. |
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Jack
United Kingdom
305 Posts |
Posted - Nov 05 2010 : 10:27:41 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by karl
I have had a similar discussion with someone quite recently and reading your post gives me the same sense. The sense that you feel betrayed in some way ?
Is that what produces those feelings of anger ?
Betrayed or disrespected, yes. Like my needs are dismissed. Hurts the pride. |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Nov 05 2010 : 10:29:48 AM
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I wish I had a bit more time today to reply to this in detail. But I will try and give you a quick response, and if you have more questions please post them here. I am sure you will have replies from other too.
As you have said in your second post, "The feeling itself is like a powerful energy, flavoured of anger and fear but just energy beneath... I can almost feel an opening beneath it but unsure how to proceed."
The external circumstances can be just about anything, it really does not matter... this energy that you sense is what is important. This energy can be used spiritually. Not many are blessed by this... so you can take this energy and transform it into bhakti. Give this energy to you ishta, your stillness.
Here is something I had posted:
quote:
Anger is a very powerful emotion and most people try and suppress it. If however, you do have the opportunity to be alone during one of these anger flashes, try and feel the anger to it's fullest.. don't suppress it in any way. Feel it, but very important.. don't make a story of it. So, while you feel the anger, just feel the pure energy of the feeling, but don't let your mind attach stories like I am angry, I am angry because life in unfair, my sister is irresponsible, my friend should not have to suffer like this, my sister should not drink and drive, she should care about herself and others who love her.. etc.. etc.. etc. (OK, maybe you don't have any of these thoughts, they are just suggestions, so you get the idea the kind of stories the mind makes). Feel the energy to its fullest with every cell in your body and along with that take the anger and offer it to your ishta, to the universe, the truth, god, a friend, someone close to you.. whoever/whatever you can feel a connection with. Let the anger die off on it's own. It will. It may come back.. like a wave.. do the same again till it subsides.. and again if it comes back. Don't bring it up with thoughts.. let it come up on its own. After awhile you will feel the intensity going down, till you wont feel it any more. This will help you get over this purification faster and to it's fullest.
See if something in these topics help:
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....OPIC_ID=5786
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....OPIC_ID=6457
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....OPIC_ID=8024
Also, do try "The Work" by Byron Katie. (the book is called "Loving What Is") |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4515 Posts |
Posted - Nov 05 2010 : 10:31:54 AM
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Hi Jack,
If it is anger resulting from inner purification, then it will pass as the obstructions are cleared. It can take time though. Asana practice, running, swimming, climbing mountains, shouting (not at your girlfriend), these things can all help to dissipate the energy that can build up, and make the ride much smoother. Cutting back on practices is also a good idea, but I wouldn't stop practices altogether unless it is really necessary. Keeping some meditation happening each day can help, to develop silence.
In the meantime, it would be good to make sure you don't end up dumping stuff on your girlfriend. Maybe explain that your spiritual practices are causing you to be more irritable than usual at the moment, and that you don't want to get into arguments?
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Christi
United Kingdom
4515 Posts |
Posted - Nov 05 2010 : 10:52:40 AM
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p.s.
quote:
The feeling itself is like a powerful energy, flavoured of anger and fear but just energy beneath... I can almost feel an opening beneath it but unsure how to proceed.
If you want to try something really hard, then here it is:
The energy that you are talking about, and which you can feel, is the result of repeated contraction around the sense of a separate self. I am sure you are aware of this. Every painful experience causes it to build it's power and grow. Eventually it begins to spill over into anger, frustration etc. All the things you are experiencing.
The space that you can feel under it is the ocean of bliss, the witness, the Self. If you can meditate on the feelings (anger, resentment, fear etc) and go beneath the feelings to the experience of the pure energy vibration which is causing them, and then go deeper still, beneath the energy to the silent expanse of peace in which all energy moves, then the energy itself will be transformed.
But this is not easy to do, and requires a high degree of will, because you have to face directly, and move through some quite unpleasant sensations. The energy vibration that causes anger is more unpleasant to be with than the feeling of anger itself.
I mention this practice because it sounds like you want to work with it and transcend it. I have used this practice at times when I thought that nothing else would work. Miracles can happen. 
Good luck |
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jeff
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - Nov 05 2010 : 10:56:01 AM
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Jack,
It sounds more like normal Ego stuff than purification. You are trying to be a good guy with your partner (helping out financially) and just looking for some appreciation. Sounds logical, but ask yourself why you are uncomfortable with being honest about your financial situation. AYP practices are great, but it is important to learn to be comfortable with yourself.
Namaste, Jeff |
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Jack
United Kingdom
305 Posts |
Posted - Nov 05 2010 : 11:19:38 AM
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Thank you all for the replies, both deeply transpersonal and more relative.
They're all relevent. But Jeff you seem on the most suitable wavelength to me today for this stuff.
I have explained my financial situation to her.. She gets it. But she is also worse off than me. I just have trouble asking for what I want. I resist being honest about this because I feel I will be rejected, shouted at, and labelled as being wrgongly selfish (a negative quality), petty and manipulative. I struggle with accepting parts of myself. I want to play safe and not rock the boat over £10. I suppose it is respect or appreciation, symbolised by money, I am wanting.
But to take it to the transpersonal depths, Christi and Shanti, excellent posts. I have great fear around going that deep and that is the crux of my spiritual challenge.
Jack |
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Jack
United Kingdom
305 Posts |
Posted - Nov 05 2010 : 12:06:15 PM
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| Any last words before I leave work to go home and see her? |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Nov 05 2010 : 12:08:13 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Jack
quote:
Originally posted by karl
I have had a similar discussion with someone quite recently and reading your post gives me the same sense. The sense that you feel betrayed in some way ?
Is that what produces those feelings of anger ?
Betrayed or disrespected, yes. Like my needs are dismissed. Hurts the pride.
So, thinking about that. Who is it that is doing the betraying ? Be honest when you dig into that question as the results might suprise you.
Read what Jeff wrote again. Ask why you are uncomfortable. Sometimes you have to let yourself learn to breath before you can begin the race.
There has been mention of letting the anger come and surrender to it without attaching thoughts. This is a great technique but it depends on your level of spiritual growth and can be more than a little scary if you are not ready. |
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Jack
United Kingdom
305 Posts |
Posted - Nov 05 2010 : 6:05:54 PM
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Who is it that is doing the betraying?
Well, when I think of the events happening, I feel a tug in my solar plexus and a feeling of 'attacked', 'betrayed', and 'shocked'
Who is it that is doing the betraying?
She is!
Who is it that is doing the betraying?
Memorising the actions that took place causes the feeling of betrayel, hurt and resulting anger to arise.
Who is it that is doing the betraying?
The hurt and anger occur within this consciousness.
Within this, there is a deep sadness.
Thoughts come up here, wanting to blame 'outside' for causing this sadness.
But this sadness is deep, subtle and pervasive, not exclusive to this situation but more universal somehow.
The thought comes up that I have betrayed myself, pride comes in and says I have betrayed myself by not speaking my truth.
Another voice says I have betrayed my partner by closing from love and honesty into an inauthentic, non-loving, passive-aggressive self-preserving lie. Guilt. Fear of being found out.
So here sits two answers..
"She is doing the betraying" - though now she even told me to keep the change from the taxi, is earning more tonight and saying we should get a few nice things from the city tomorrow.
"I am doing the betraying" - I feel like I have been prideful, and still am, not entirely sure what to do about it. Further down though I sense my own unlovingness and feel some shame around this. Like I have closed from love and am unsure how to open back up. And "Is it safe to open my heart again".
So its an interesting question, really..
Any help dialoguing through this? |
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Jack
United Kingdom
305 Posts |
Posted - Nov 05 2010 : 6:09:25 PM
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Why am I uncomfortable speaking honestly?
Because I am unsure of my correctness.
And because I am unsure, it is possible I will be proved wrong if I am to mention the subject.
And then I will be exposed wrong, idiotic, selfish and unnecessarily angry.
And then I will be shamed, my girlfriend will be angry and discord will arise.
Strain will be on the relationship, I will feel terrible and her also. Breakup. Seperation.
She will say something that makes sense about give and take, the big picture.. stuff I seem to forget in my dullheadedness.
I am uncomfortable with any potential conflict. |
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Jack
United Kingdom
305 Posts |
Posted - Nov 05 2010 : 6:45:23 PM
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Perhaps I have allowed myself to become depressed in life.
I don't often feel desire for her.
I feel a desire to do the practices.
The practices bring me some peace, but distance me from her and from life. Or perhaps that is my thinking.
I also lose my sex drive a little.. desire declines more.
This bodymind is often sexually dysfunctional anyway so..
Would love to practice and not require pseudo-personality to be content within a relationship where my sex is also energised and working well. Content with her.
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Jack
United Kingdom
305 Posts |
Posted - Nov 05 2010 : 7:20:42 PM
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Perhaps I don't love her? That is a scary thought. Am I just depressd or ungrateful? Does depression affect the ability to feel love or attraction for somebody?
Guilt and fear now!
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Christi
United Kingdom
4515 Posts |
Posted - Nov 06 2010 : 05:35:58 AM
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Hi Jack,
Sounds like you need to talk to your girlfriend. And be honest with her!
... and then when you have cleared the air (which might mean breaking up or it might not) then you could do the deeper work on yourself.
Christi |
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HathaTeacher
Sweden
382 Posts |
Posted - Nov 06 2010 : 11:37:27 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Christi Asana practice, running, swimming, climbing mountains, shouting (not at your girlfriend), these things can all help to dissipate the energy that can build up, and make the ride much smoother. Cutting back on practices is also a good idea, but I wouldn't stop practices altogether unless...
Very much so, IMO.
Some of the self-reflection ( /-distance /-irony) in relaxing into a "honest yet not exploding" state (even when honesty may lead to pain on either side), comes from meditation; this is worth explaining to her. But, with too much accumulated feelings inside, meditation alone might be like lifting the lid off a pan that got burnt: Stink released into atmosphere, but all the overheating still there. That's one of the reasons why most schools/traditions combined meditation with physical activities to smooth out emotions and to get from "alongside life" right into the middle of it. Swapping a part of the meditation for physical exercise helps us to deal with any excess pressure inside.
It's similar in a relationship, and it may take a little training, too. Given I'm practicaly sure I want her, I want to show it clearly in words, sounds, hugs, body kisses, etc., all the time, no matter if she expects it or not; a bit like physical fitness - if I don't use it, I gradually lose it. I rather forget about Dr. Phil & Co. (or a pile of boring French classics ), and practise love at present, my way, not perfectly, but now instead of a hazy future. Integrity is manful as long as the calm is there. Rather than not seeming needy to her (or to anybdy), it's about just not being it. A good AYP tool are the brahmacharya techniques to control ejacs. They develop a feeling of being in charge of sex life as well as of life, independent of all the stressful mess of finances (or a bunch of other down-to-earth matters - been there, seen it, got the T-shirt ).
My 2 c.
(if this makes sense to you, then you might like to browse this:
Way of the Superior Man
I wouldn't be surprised if somebody in the man group you mention has read it and gives you his opinion on it right away)
Moderator note: edited to fix broken links only. |
Edited by - AYPforum on Nov 06 2010 1:38:53 PM |
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jeff
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - Nov 06 2010 : 7:19:11 PM
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Jack,
Try reading your own last posts again. That is your own ego talking. People don't really consciously betray others, they are just self absorbed. All egos focus on themselves and we interpret that someone is doing something to us. Your statements are a fear of not being loved, so you are telling yourself to attack first before you get hurt.
Energy practices are fun, but getting past our own egos is nearly impossible. That is what keeps us in an endless loop. I don't want to sound harsh, but it is important to learn to love yourself. The first step is being able to laugh at yourself. Then it gets easier to like yourself. |
Edited by - jeff on Nov 06 2010 8:36:51 PM |
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HathaTeacher
Sweden
382 Posts |
Posted - Nov 07 2010 : 02:35:52 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by jeff ...a fear of not being loved, so you are telling yourself to attack first...
Hi J & J ,
IMO., AYP gradually guides one past similar hang-ups. Meditation and ejac control gradually make me see that quite a part of the concept "shortage" (of love, wealth, opportunity, success, the feminine, the sunshine, whatever) was an over-reaction by my mind.
Change happens, creeping, through regular practice even when very few of the "issues" are actually brought to a verbal level. Of course relationships are a two-way street, but this at least gives me a feeling of having done what I can on my part, although I can't re-shape another self by will or "fix a relationship" by a lot of talking.
My 2 eurocents |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Nov 07 2010 : 09:38:34 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Jack
Who is it that is doing the betraying?
Well, when I think of the events happening, I feel a tug in my solar plexus and a feeling of 'attacked', 'betrayed', and 'shocked'
Who is it that is doing the betraying?
She is!
Who is it that is doing the betraying?
Memorising the actions that took place causes the feeling of betrayel, hurt and resulting anger to arise.
Who is it that is doing the betraying?
The hurt and anger occur within this consciousness.
Within this, there is a deep sadness.
Thoughts come up here, wanting to blame 'outside' for causing this sadness.
But this sadness is deep, subtle and pervasive, not exclusive to this situation but more universal somehow.
The thought comes up that I have betrayed myself, pride comes in and says I have betrayed myself by not speaking my truth.
Another voice says I have betrayed my partner by closing from love and honesty into an inauthentic, non-loving, passive-aggressive self-preserving lie. Guilt. Fear of being found out.
So here sits two answers..
"She is doing the betraying" - though now she even told me to keep the change from the taxi, is earning more tonight and saying we should get a few nice things from the city tomorrow.
"I am doing the betraying" - I feel like I have been prideful, and still am, not entirely sure what to do about it. Further down though I sense my own unlovingness and feel some shame around this. Like I have closed from love and am unsure how to open back up. And "Is it safe to open my heart again".
So its an interesting question, really..
Any help dialoguing through this?
Yes, this is good.
Working through this stuff is good.
Noticing that you feel it is you who is ultimately betraying yourself.
Ask for what purpose you are doing this ? Keep asking until the answer comes. It will take time you need to be persistent. The aim is nearly always about protection and control. The realisation is that you have actually given up control of yourself and that you are no longer providing the protection that you need.
Your partner is making you feel this. She is the key to the door back to real control. She has forced you to the first step of seeking advice and that means you are already on the way. You should thank her for that gift.
All the other advice is great too. Get out and about, exhaust your body, challenge yourself, keep on with the meditation.
You should realise that seeking solice in meditation is false and ultimately having that belief will result in the same feelings of betrayal.
Seek the source of those feelings and allow the anger and sadness to burn through you without thought if you can. Just pure energy. |
Edited by - karl on Nov 07 2010 09:47:04 AM |
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jeff
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - Nov 07 2010 : 10:16:19 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by HathaTeacher
Change happens, creeping, through regular practice even when very few of the "issues" are actually brought to a verbal level... My 2 eurocents
I am sure your 2 eurocents are worth more than my 2 US cents
I agree with your above point. The practices connect us with the inner/divine peace. With that as your core, everything else becomes easy (desire,anger, etc...). There are two main roads on the path, surrender through denial or acceptance. If you are going to engage in the world, denial is pretty hard. Learning to accept (and love) yourself is an important first step. Your ego will always tell you that you are not good enough. No need to listen. Confirmation comes from your own soul. Don't look to others.
Namaste, Jeff |
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HathaTeacher
Sweden
382 Posts |
Posted - Nov 08 2010 : 03:34:15 AM
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quote:
Your ego will always tell you that you are not good enough. No need to listen.
Or that you're too good, or too whatever - it wants to keep telling things and reviewing/classifying life. Adyashanti talks about it with humor and insight, in
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SH3KToKApVo
_/\_
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Jack
United Kingdom
305 Posts |
Posted - Nov 16 2010 : 10:24:39 AM
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Thank you for the response.
I havn't responded myself lately as my computer at home is damaged and work has been busy. I have been spending nearly everyday with my partner.
I currently feel this anger/fear dichotomy again. This time triggered by remembering an event where I had lent her money to bail her out of a situation she had created herself. When she returned part of the money, I asked about the rest and she became rageful, listing the things she had done for me, etc., and then she never did pay the rest.
There is anger over this, and fear. I started practicing DM again yesterday and what I noticed is that the anger kicks in a moment after the fear.
I don't speak up out of fear of conflict.
For what purpose do I betray myself?
I want to 'get by' peacefully without conflict.
I don't want to be pointed out as being selfish. I spent my life trying to please others.
Any thoughts? Will reply later I hope.
Jack |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Nov 16 2010 : 1:49:46 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Jack
I don't speak up out of fear of conflict.
For what purpose do I betray myself?
I want to 'get by' peacefully without conflict.
I don't want to be pointed out as being selfish. I spent my life trying to please others.
You want to get by 'peacefully without conflict'. How well are you doing following your route of self betrayal ? Who are you really angry with ?
You do not want others to see you as selfish so you hide you true feelings. Selfish is keeping something to yourself and you are keeping the anger. How can you know you pleased others? you cannot possibly know that, you only pleased yourself by thinking you were doing that.
If you want to change, then realise that all your avoidance of conflict simply causes you far more inner conflict. So you avoided nothing, you got exactly what you wanted and you knew what that would feel like. You chose it.
With change comes effort and sometimes a barrel of unfamiliarity and initial heartache. Whe you try anything new, the results are at first faltering until you learn to get your balance. It may well be that you will change your friends, tastes, job and outlook on life.
Only you can decide this. It doesn't need a magic wand or 10 years meditation. Simply decide that the way you are now isn't working becuase you are unhappy. It's not producing the desired result so do something different.
I'm being a bit tough with you because otherwise you will continue to ask this question and not resolve the situation. Once you learn to handle the external conflict you will not have the internal conflict. Best to have the fighting outside of your house I think because it makes a mess of the furniture. |
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Jack
United Kingdom
305 Posts |
Posted - Nov 16 2010 : 2:56:24 PM
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Hi Karl,
Well written challenge.
Gives me a fright reading it, like falling further into this stuck, fear, contraction.
How well am I doing following this route of self-betrayal?
Not so great; the rage gradually subsides but I think it might be lodging its way deeper in my mind to become a bitter root of ill-will.
Peace on the outside is maintained though relationship is not as great and energetic as it might be without built up internal tension. A degree of 'acting'.
Who am I really angry with?
Her.. My self, my own stupid fear, with my father, with God. With the frustrating limitation of fear and paranoia.
There is always inner conflict. When I have mentioned things before (nervously) and get shot down the inner conflict is still there.
I have trouble discerning if an emotion is justified or not. My intellect needs to be logically content with the reason for an emotion to be there.
And another part is so sick and tired of always having to be reasonable.
I don't even know the basic skill set for boundaries and for expressing anger towards others whom I am intimate and close with. |
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Kundalini/Repressed anger, relationships and money
