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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
 Posted - Nov 16 2010 : 4:40:51 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Jack
I don't even know the basic skill set for boundaries and for expressing anger towards others whom I am intimate and close with.
Expressing anger!
Well, that's the thing isn't it. It does not need to be anger, you only need to be firm and assertive and then there is no need for the anger. Your anger is by choice and self directed.
Be expressive about what you feel, let people know how you are feeling. Stay away from accusing others because that only means you are presuming to know why they are behaving in a certain way. That leads to an unsatisfactory argument.....you already knew that, didn't you ?
Start small, practise in the mirror. Train yourself by continually pushing your own boundaries. Don't just complain, or whine, instead be positive about what you want.
I think it would be good for you to have a read of the Byron Katie website. Buy the books if you can afford them. I'm instantly thinking about the book titled 'I need your Love-Is that True?'
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Jack
United Kingdom
305 Posts |
Posted - Nov 17 2010 : 06:22:03 AM
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| She is texting me now, asking if we are okay. Confused, she says. And now another saying that things are probably not ok as I have not replied and maybe we should take a break. Don't know how to reply. |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Nov 17 2010 : 1:44:50 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Jack
She is texting me now, asking if we are okay. Confused, she says. And now another saying that things are probably not ok as I have not replied and maybe we should take a break. Don't know how to reply.
Best to talk these things through face to face. I cannot tell you how to reply but this is a chance to begin being truthful to her and to yourself.
Tell her how you are feeling, all the bottled up stuff and present it in a way that does not accuse her. Tell her you feel betrayed, sad, unhappy at whatever the situation is. Remember that she is not doing anything wrong, only being the way she believes you want her to be (sometimes called having a positive intention). |
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Jack
United Kingdom
305 Posts |
Posted - Nov 18 2010 : 04:46:21 AM
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I left work to go speak to her in person.
I didn't bring up this specific situation from months ago, but we expressed where we are generally within ourselves and the relationship, and have decided to try a break for a while. She has a lot on, as do I though not to so great an extent. We are taking time out to look after ourselves.
I plan to use this time firstly to rest, get back into my meditation and exercise, and get into the group men's work and therapy also.
Will post later perhaps.
Thanks Karl for your guidance through this. Another helpful voice to keep me somewhere near integrity. |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Nov 18 2010 : 1:10:50 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Jack
I left work to go speak to her in person.
I didn't bring up this specific situation from months ago, but we expressed where we are generally within ourselves and the relationship, and have decided to try a break for a while. She has a lot on, as do I though not to so great an extent. We are taking time out to look after ourselves.
I plan to use this time firstly to rest, get back into my meditation and exercise, and get into the group men's work and therapy also.
Will post later perhaps.
Thanks Karl for your guidance through this. Another helpful voice to keep me somewhere near integrity.
A positive outcome.
Your welcome, we all need a hand at times. |
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Jack
United Kingdom
305 Posts |
Posted - Nov 19 2010 : 05:12:34 AM
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| I managed to express my anger and hurt about this incident to her, she listened and appreciated my honesty, and will be repaying me also. |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Nov 19 2010 : 3:40:27 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Jack
I managed to express my anger and hurt about this incident to her, she listened and appreciated my honesty, and will be repaying me also.
I want to clap  . How do you feel after doing this ? Lighter, fizzy, euphoric with a touch of nervous energy. Excellent work, I know that could not have been easy for you, the first step is the hardest and you must have really wanted to change.
It's not on only one level you change, you are changing many things on many levels allowing your inner self to shine through. |
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Jack
United Kingdom
305 Posts |
Posted - Nov 20 2010 : 12:04:29 PM
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Well, I don't think I would have bought this up but she was in a very receptive and open minded-state to what I had to say.
Seems we are more together now, this will be a learning however to put myself first from now on. I have asked her if she would like to meditate with me and she seemed positive to the idea. Also touched on tantric sex.
I suppose I need to keep focus on my needs for now instead of abandoning them.
Thanks again Karl. |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Nov 24 2010 : 2:15:08 PM
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Jack, I can't contribute with any good ideas on what to do. I just wanted to say a huge thanks for starting this topic, and for being so open and frank about how your thoughts are working. It's totally actual and relevant for me too, right now.
I totally recognize the difficulties in FINDING the feeling of anger for real, inside and yet worse to express it actively. Instead it's so easy to become passively aggressive and blurt out small doses of poison here and there.
Just wanted to say you're doing a great job - for all of us! Thanks! |
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Jack
United Kingdom
305 Posts |
Posted - Nov 30 2010 : 05:34:16 AM
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Thanks, emc, though really I don't feel as if I deserve any praise.
I am really conflicted as of late. Part of me seems to want out of this relationship. It's a gut feeling of fear and aversion. It's like I just don't give a ****.
I became very enmeshed in this relationship, over a year has gone by and I don't know who I am.. I have little sense of individuality, or progress in life.
I put so much into this relationship and I feel stressed.
I feel attraction to other, younger women.. I try to accept the feeling without adding anything on to it and to serve my woman, but the sexual aspect feels weaker now.
I'm terrified of this. Why can't I just be happy with what I have?
Even if she is not on a spiritual path as such, I know she may be checking out a Buddhist group run by her friend in the near future.
Feeling guilty.
I also feel anger, directed at her and I don't even know why. |
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Jack
United Kingdom
305 Posts |
Posted - Nov 30 2010 : 05:37:25 AM
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Been meditating a couple of weeks now. I just want to be alone and deal with my feelings in a safe atmosphere.
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Jack
United Kingdom
305 Posts |
Posted - Nov 30 2010 : 3:45:57 PM
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So now she is saying that since taking up the meditation and bodywork that I seem to be regressing.
That I had seemed to be progressing but now I am not.
She says that it is better I sleep in my own bed tonight as she wants to sleep either with the me she knows or by herself, not with me quiet and distracted.
She says that I was present before, but now I am elsewhere.
And that it is putting strain on the relationship.
So I start to touch on some inner silence and feel some degree of peace. Impersonal awareness. A more generalised sense of compassion. The personality becomes quietened and I want more space.
I feel some resentment.
Bhakti is frustrated.
Where does personal love fall into all this? I get glimpses, usually through music or film, that cause a kind of love feeling that is inclusive of others.
But now I feel more withdrawn.
Jack |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Nov 30 2010 : 3:59:34 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Jack
Thanks, emc, though really I don't feel as if I deserve any praise.
I am really conflicted as of late. Part of me seems to want out of this relationship. It's a gut feeling of fear and aversion. It's like I just don't give a ****.
I became very enmeshed in this relationship, over a year has gone by and I don't know who I am.. I have little sense of individuality, or progress in life.
I put so much into this relationship and I feel stressed.
I feel attraction to other, younger women.. I try to accept the feeling without adding anything on to it and to serve my woman, but the sexual aspect feels weaker now.
I'm terrified of this. Why can't I just be happy with what I have?
Even if she is not on a spiritual path as such, I know she may be checking out a Buddhist group run by her friend in the near future.
Feeling guilty.
I also feel anger, directed at her and I don't even know why.
Hi Jack,
you are beginning to open up and that's great. Sometimes you have to open and clean a wound before it can completely heal.
Good that you can talk openly about how you feel.
You are making changes Jack, so sometimes it's going to be a bit raw. Anger is such a strong negative energy that once you start to release it there is a tendency to feel really tired, run down and grumpy.
Remember that no experience is ever wasted, even when it can all seem pointless, always you are progressing. Which is how you ended up here.
It's a bit like waiting for a egg to hatch. Weeks go by and the Egg sits there with nothing obvious happening and then one day a chick is poking it's beak through the broken shell.
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Edited by - karl on Nov 30 2010 4:01:41 PM |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Nov 30 2010 : 4:02:14 PM
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Hi Jack 
Don't know if anything I am going to say is going to be helpful or not, and I don't have any idea what I am going to say, but, I'm going to say it anyways. 
Inner Silence and Presence are not mutually exclusive. You can be silent inside and still be present with your GF. The frustration, the resentment comes from constriction. As your GF says these things, you are constricting. Staying open and staying present are the best things you can do for both you and her right now. You can not change how she feels. But you can choose your reactions to her. Try to be mindful of what is going on inside your mind/body when she says things like: "she wants to sleep either with the me she knows or by herself, not with me quiet and distracted." Does your mind and heart close up when she says this? Watch for that. If you notice the "closing" happening, just try to stay open and stay present with her. Don't get angry or defensive.
That said, this relationship may or may not work out. No one can know for sure what will happen. Struggle creates opening, but not everyone wants to go through struggle. She may want to take "the easy way out." You may too. Either way, my advice to you is to stay mindful of what is going on inside you when you are with/around her. Watch yourself. And when you feel yourself closing or constricting, consciously stay open and present. Don't escape into your mind, don't leave your body. Just remain open, compassionate and "there."
That's all I got. I love you. Know that this will all work out for the best.
Love!
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Chiron
Russia
397 Posts |
Posted - Dec 01 2010 : 05:05:10 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by HathaTeacher
(if this makes sense to you, then you might like to browse this:
Way of the Superior Man
I wouldn't be surprised if somebody in the man group you mention has read it and gives you his opinion on it right away)
Are there any techniques given there? Are you able to give a brief description of the book?
I too am of the opinion that control of male ejaculation is the foundation for the rest of the relationship. And if this is not in place, no amount of possessions and riches can bring peace and real joy.
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Rattan
South Africa
41 Posts |
Posted - Dec 01 2010 : 06:09:48 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Chiron
quote:
Originally posted by HathaTeacher
(if this makes sense to you, then you might like to browse this:
Way of the Superior Man
I wouldn't be surprised if somebody in the man group you mention has read it and gives you his opinion on it right away)
Are there any techniques given there? Are you able to give a brief description of the book?
I too am of the opinion that control of male ejaculation is the foundation for the rest of the relationship. And if this is not in place, no amount of possessions and riches can bring peace and real joy.
I can also highly recommend this book by David Deida. It gives one insight into the man-woman relationship from a very fresh perspective. In Deida’s own unique style. I loved it. It is not a “how to” manual, there are no techniques in it. Below the first two paragraphs from the book’s introduction to get a flavour.
“This book is a guide for a specific kind of newly evolving man. This man is unabashedly masculine—he is purposeful, confident, and directed, living his chosen way of life with deep integrity and humor—and he is sensitive, spontaneous, and spiritually alive, with a heart-commitment to discovering and living his deepest truth.
This kind of man is totally turned on by the feminine. He loves to take his woman sexually, to ravish her, but not in some old-style macho fashion. Rather, he wants to ravish her with so much love she is vanished, they both vanish, in the fullness of loving itself. He is dedicated to incarnating love on this earth, through his work and his sexuality, and he does so as a free man, bound neither by outer convention nor inner cowardice.”
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Jack
United Kingdom
305 Posts |
Posted - Dec 01 2010 : 07:53:20 AM
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I have the book.
Ravishing with love.. well, that is it.. where is the love these days.
I sometimes read a few parts from the book and manage to man up enough to shift gears.. but there is always this tension in my solar plexus. |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Dec 01 2010 : 10:45:10 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Jack
I have the book.
Ravishing with love.. well, that is it.. where is the love these days.
I sometimes read a few parts from the book and manage to man up enough to shift gears.. but there is always this tension in my solar plexus.
Yoga and AYP can help you with a relationship. The relationship between you and you. Work on the inside first. It takes time, not a few weeks, not a few years maybe much longer.
As Ghandi said "be the change you wish to see in the world" or as the Bible "Instead, seek his kingdom, and these things will be added to you."
Trying to fix the outside is worthless, it is an empire built on sand and will surely crumble. Fix the inside and the outside fixes itself.
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HathaTeacher
Sweden
382 Posts |
Posted - Dec 01 2010 : 12:56:29 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Jack ...read a few parts from the book and manage to man up enough to shift gears.. but there is always this tension in my solar plexus.
Oftentimes, the healthy path can seem almost as painstaking as the blind alley did recently. But if the relationship kept one or both from blooming and growing, it's worthwhile.
(Once, I even asked a sibling to remind me in the future, in case my new relationship would be broken off, that this woman was exactly whom I wanted despite the risk, and that everything was worthwhile. Even on the phone, such a reminder is useful in finding one's way from being pain to witnessing pain.)
There is a couple of chapters in the book about following a man's mission too.
quote:
Originally posted by Chiron
Are there any techniques given there? Are you able to give a brief description of the book?
I too am of the opinion that control of male ejaculation is the foundation...
I agree, given commonsense self pacing (I made a post about it last year, www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....ID=6068#54950 )
The technique mentioned in the book is not new to you if you've browsed Yoganis Tantra lessons here. Only 7 pages are how-to (Chapter 46, out of 51). The book is more like the second part of its title: A spiritual Guide to Mastering the Challenges of Women, Work, and Sexual Desire.
Its language and thinking are inspiring. Each chapter has a preamble of 5-10 lines, it's advisable to spend 30-40 minutes browsing all preambles before deciding to read the whole book.
His technique book is called The Enlightened Sex Manual: Sexual Skills for the Superior Lover, www.amazon.com/Enlightened-S...227643&sr=1-1
Inspiring, and not too different either - just puts more emphasis on "Sex" (compared to AYP's focus on "Enlightened"); the common denominator is techniques acquired one by one but applied in parallell, using breathing and relaxation along with the bandhas and mudras. Like in AYP, body and mind are regarded one "whole" (neither Deida nor Yogani want you to slavishly become just an ejac-control robot), and that's why reading both books in a row made sense to me.
quote:
Originally posted by karl...Fix the inside and the outside fixes itself.
To become the one you need to, to be able to do what you need to, to get what you want. The reverse order usually looks like a shortcut but turns out to be a long roundabout.
My 3 c. |
Edited by - HathaTeacher on Dec 01 2010 2:02:05 PM |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Dec 01 2010 : 1:20:51 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Rattan
I can also highly recommend this book by David Deida. It gives one insight into the man-woman relationship from a very fresh perspective. In Deida’s own unique style. I loved it. It is not a “how to” manual, there are no techniques in it. Below the first two paragraphs from the book’s introduction to get a flavour.
“This book is a guide for a specific kind of newly evolving man. This man is unabashedly masculine—he is purposeful, confident, and directed, living his chosen way of life with deep integrity and humor—and he is sensitive, spontaneous, and spiritually alive, with a heart-commitment to discovering and living his deepest truth.
This kind of man is totally turned on by the feminine. He loves to take his woman sexually, to ravish her, but not in some old-style macho fashion. Rather, he wants to ravish her with so much love she is vanished, they both vanish, in the fullness of loving itself. He is dedicated to incarnating love on this earth, through his work and his sexuality, and he does so as a free man, bound neither by outer convention nor inner cowardice.”
I must have read that 50 times and still don't know what it means. I asked my wife if I was anything like the man portrayed here......she just laughed Well she gave me some ticks and low marks on the ravishing front, but a definite A+ on cuddles.
Damn I thought of myself striding the Earth incarnating Love  |
Edited by - karl on Dec 01 2010 1:22:34 PM |
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HathaTeacher
Sweden
382 Posts |
Posted - Dec 01 2010 : 2:10:12 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by karl
Damn I thought of myself striding the Earth incarnating Love
Sounds a little familiar, I admit
A source of inspiration rather than somebody asking me to to become a carbon copy of himself
(BtW., that's yet another common denominator between Deida and Yogani, IMO. ) |
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Jack
United Kingdom
305 Posts |
Posted - Dec 01 2010 : 4:16:44 PM
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I feel your warmth guys, thank you for that.
I meditated today.
Relationship with self is top. Fear of other is fear of self.
Relaxingbeyond hat I found some joy in my sitting today, and the idea occured that I can both be with inner silence, my new inner relationship, and till be joyful and engaged with my partner.
There is some resistance in the brain to the idea, but it is a possibility before nver considered.
Goodnight guys,
Jack |
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Jack
United Kingdom
305 Posts |
Posted - Dec 22 2010 : 4:50:26 PM
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My partner thinks i am taking two steps back by meditating.
This is what came up after tonight's meditation.
Tired of constantly controlling my thoughts and feelings to maintain a kind of pseudopeace that is sacrifice of my own self to protect myself from getting anger from another. Constrant control and manipulation of others and myself out of fear of change and fear of conflict. I ave so many limiting beliefs about myself and life. I need my own life. I need my own time to care about me, to look after myself and my true feelings, rather than ignoring myself for another. I feel afraid and guilty for evn writing this, if this is een I'll bve judged and condemned and apparently it will mean that I don't "love" her. Well I do love her but I need to love myself and put myself first. I've had enough of the drugs and their effect on me. I hate feeling groggy, braindead, foggy headed, out of touch and depressed with myself. I dont get time to even think of myself or to make space for changes in life. I just work the same job day in day out and get no time for ME. I'm either working or with her, to hell with whatever is going on inside of me. Whatever I do share or say is scrutinised, analysed and usually with the tint that there is something fundamentally wrong with me. I resent it.
Do I want her? Well yes but not as much as I want ME. And it feels like I am sacrficng MY love to get HERS. Its an age old pattern of putting myself last to keep another happy.
So what do I need?
To feel connected with ME.
To stay off of drugs and not feel awkward without them.
A loving relationship, with someone who knows and loves me and perhaps shares something as far as this ongoing work in progress known as human spiritual evolution.
Connection with me, well who the hell is that.
Anger comes to mind but also anger without self-blame.. anger is a part of me simple as.
I never stand up for myself when it omes to translating feelings into expression, boundaries and practicalities.
So what do I want
A connection with myself.
Acceptance and understanding of my all and everything.
My health. |
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Lili
Netherlands
372 Posts |
Posted - Dec 22 2010 : 5:21:19 PM
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Hi Jack,
Hopefully Carson can chime in as he has experience overcoming similar problems.
Meanwhile greeting for you :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfrIipujxfQ
Best of luck--hope you will manage to find your balance and stability to spend some time on yourself.
Cheers, Lili |
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Jack
United Kingdom
305 Posts |
Posted - Dec 23 2010 : 6:25:05 PM
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Thanks, Lily.
Another day of wanting space and feeling averse, even hostile.
I read a couple of articles from the Living Unbound site. She left for work and I sat to meditate.
After breathing meditation for just five minutes, I laid down for twenty minutes with hand over belly and heart.. I felt moved towards affirming "I am truly loved", and "There is nothing wrong with me"..
Felt a positive shift.
Had some inkling the stress is not from out there, but is mind generated.. and that what I am really sick and tired of is not the situation so much as the sense of separation.
Separation from the whole.. myself, her.
To remind myself I am loved without imagining another story to pull away, push away, isolate and hate.. to allow it to become celebration, but another chance to look for what is unlovable and unforgivable in myself and in her
Progress, and probably fleeting and prone to backslides, but something at least.
Jack |
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Kundalini/Repressed anger, relationships and money
