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woosa
United Kingdom
382 Posts |
 Posted - Oct 09 2010 : 04:47:03 AM
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I was working the shop again yesterday when a very suspicious man came in who was looking at womens clothes. From further inspection, I saw that he was using the clothes as a cover to stick his hand in an old woman's handbag to steal her purse.
Now, the first thing that happened to me while watching this was intense anger and adrenalin. I seriously wanted to take the guy outside and beat the living daylights out of him! Knock seven bells out of him - you get the ide I was fuming. Just staring intently at him.
But then 'the silence' (sounds like a horror film) came over me and I thought aren't I just playing an ego role here? The good upstanding citizen protecting the old woman from the nasty thief? I inquired as to why I was feeling like this and I just got bliss coming from my heart area and wanting to laugh. I was happy about the situation. Happy! This old lady, whose only money is getting knicked by an evil man is a time of joy!? That's definitely not the 'norm', is it?
I stopped him anyway, because at the time, I thought it was the right thing to do. But 'I thought' is it just ego, mental conditioning from my upbringing that it is 'bad' to steal. But it isn't good, or bad is it? It is what it is, right?
So that got me thinking, the highly awakened, enlightened individuals - do they give two hoots about law & order (Not people with religious beliefs)?
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Edited by - woosa on Oct 09 2010 04:50:02 AM |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4514 Posts |
Posted - Oct 09 2010 : 06:10:26 AM
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Hi Woosa,
It was wrong of that man to steal from the old lady. And you did the right thing by stopping him. Well done!
And no, it is not true that there is no right or wrong. That which flows from love is right, that which goes against love is wrong. That is the simple measurement. Acting in that way we can maintain law and order.
Christi
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Yonatan
Israel
849 Posts |
Posted - Oct 09 2010 : 07:39:54 AM
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Hi,
I like what Christi says. I can just add, that you can think that stopping that man might help him in some way, cause he can learn from these consequences that he caused. You know, you're the divine flow helping another human learn what it is to Love. 
Namaste |
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amoux
United Kingdom
266 Posts |
Posted - Oct 09 2010 : 08:00:52 AM
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I completely agree with Christi. And the thought 'am I just playing an ego game here' is, of course, also the ego
If it ever gets to the point where I have an internal debate about whether my ego thinks I should help or not help somebody who is being robbed, I'm stopping meditating! |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Oct 09 2010 : 12:15:57 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Christi
Hi Woosa,
It was wrong of that man to steal from the old lady. And you did the right thing by stopping him. Well done!
And no, it is not true that there is no right or wrong. That which flows from love is right, that which goes against love is wrong. That is the simple measurement. Acting in that way we can maintain law and order.
Christi
LOL because I nearly replied that I thought you were wrong for thinking there was a wrong and a right
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woosa
United Kingdom
382 Posts |
Posted - Oct 09 2010 : 2:43:57 PM
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Thank you for your replies it has got me out of the mire.
Yeah, my ego is reading too much into egos, haha.
Standing in a shop all day, staring at the wall, gives me an opportunity to self enquire quite a bit. I think it is safe to say I am over doing it! 
Yonatan, what a great thought; the fella would change his ways. However, later in the day I heard on the walkie talkie that he was doing stealing in other shops! If he is about again I'll be watching... and I'll pick pocket back what he stole. Anyway, back to reality, so to speak.
The responses are we should help, but why?
It makes me wonder where morals come from. Because after all we are conditioned with what is right and wrong, more or less, as soon as we are cognisant. What would happen if someone was born and not brought up with any conditioning?
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Edited by - woosa on Oct 09 2010 8:19:37 PM |
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Yonatan
Israel
849 Posts |
Posted - Oct 09 2010 : 7:59:19 PM
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| Yes we should help, but one has to be mindful of the situation, cause one action that could help in one place can be not helpful in another. |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4514 Posts |
Posted - Oct 10 2010 : 12:52:28 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by karl
quote:
Originally posted by Christi
Hi Woosa,
It was wrong of that man to steal from the old lady. And you did the right thing by stopping him. Well done!
And no, it is not true that there is no right or wrong. That which flows from love is right, that which goes against love is wrong. That is the simple measurement. Acting in that way we can maintain law and order.
Christi
LOL because I nearly replied that I thought you were wrong for thinking there was a wrong and a right
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woosa
United Kingdom
382 Posts |
Posted - Oct 10 2010 : 06:05:12 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Christi
quote:
Originally posted by karl
quote:
Originally posted by Christi
Hi Woosa,
It was wrong of that man to steal from the old lady. And you did the right thing by stopping him. Well done!
And no, it is not true that there is no right or wrong. That which flows from love is right, that which goes against love is wrong. That is the simple measurement. Acting in that way we can maintain law and order.
Christi
LOL because I nearly replied that I thought you were wrong for thinking there was a wrong and a right
Thanks, you two have both confused me! |
Edited by - woosa on Oct 10 2010 08:13:13 AM |
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manigma
India
1065 Posts |
Posted - Oct 10 2010 : 08:08:49 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by woosa
But it isn't good, or bad is it? It is what it is, right?
Yes, it is what it is.
All of you did your thingy.
But would you have done the same thing if you were a thief yourself?
What matters is which one of you was most aware that time... you, the thief or the old lady?
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SeySorciere
Seychelles
1571 Posts |
Posted - Oct 14 2010 : 03:48:17 AM
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I will play the devil's advocate here. Everybody agrees that woosa did the right thing by stopping the thief - but did he?
What did he know of the thief's (and the old lady's)circumstances? E.g. Poor man, can't get a job, with little children to feed; rich old lady, mean and miserly as can be. What did he know, at that point in time, HOW the whole thing would have played out if he had let it be?? His intervention may not have helped at all.
Seysorciere |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Oct 14 2010 : 1:10:46 PM
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| It doesn't matter what the action was. It took place, any conjecture is pointless. There can never be another option because the one that was taken was the only one that could have been taken. |
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tonightsthenight
846 Posts |
Posted - Oct 14 2010 : 1:46:12 PM
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SeySorciere,
in response to your devils advocate argument:
Stealing is wrong. Those observances and restraints referred to as yama and niyama in yoga are not imaginary things. They really do exist as part of the Law.
We are compelled to help to stand up for the helpless among us. This is not ego, though it can be an ego thing.
It is one thing to say that within the Brahmanic Void, there is no right or wrong. But in the world of forms, there is right and wrong. As Christi says, Love is the Law.
We cannot get too caught up in the Void. After all, we have lives to lead here in the world of form. That is why AYP refers to Silence in Action, because that is the act of being Silent in the World.
Silence is the foundation. That is why the Bible talks about people building houses on a rock, rather than sand. The ego is necessary to navigate the world of forms, but the endeavors of the ego should come from the foundation of the spirit.
What would happen to a pure spirit in the world of forms? That's easy: it would be destroyed surely and swiftly.
The world of forms, though unreal, has a purpose. The purpose is a mystery. The viscissitudes of life (fate) is a mystery. It has different rules then the Void.
We are not called to live in the Void. We are called to live in the World. But we are told: Be not of the world. That is because we are of the Spirit, and we live in the World in silence. Nonetheless we live in the world and not in the void.
essentially, When in Rome...... |
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BuddhiHermit
United Kingdom
84 Posts |
Posted - Oct 24 2010 : 09:48:06 AM
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Hi Woosa, Christi has it.
Moral behaviour flows from love.
I am mostly amoral, however, I find myself living an extremely ethical life. This was not my choice, or my upbringing, but rather at the insistence of my Heart, which, when opened, demands certain things of me. Thus I find myself living according to the precepts, be they Yogic, Buddhist, Jewish, Taoist, Shamanic, .... etc etc.
That does not force me to live a "bleeding heart" life either, and my response to the moment is totally dependent on what reponse my "Being" deems appropriate. Sometimes I will be generous, sometimes not, but I don't judge that, as I have found that trusting the right decision to come out of the emptiness of the moment, is always the best choice.
Even if you do not practice the restraints, they will eventually assert themselves as part of the sadhana, although, it can hasten your progress if you do choose to practice as many as you can.
Namaste |
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Thieves, old ladies and bliss.
