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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
 Posted - Sep 07 2010 : 9:33:09 PM
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I've felt for some time that all mystical traditions were non-dual at essence, but had never come across much detailed evidence for this in the Sufi tradition.
That's not because it wasn't there, but simply because I hadn't explored Sufism in-depth.
That just changed (the "detailed evidence" part.  )
There's as much pure, authoritative non-duality in Sufism as there is, anywhere.
For details, please see the following excellent e-book (PDF):
Mohammed's ALLAH
.. as well as the web site it came from, which explores the science of Sufism in great, clearly-articulated detail:
http://www.ahmedhulusi.org/
Wholeheartedly,
Kirtanman
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Holy
796 Posts |
Posted - Sep 08 2010 : 7:58:26 PM
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Not even mystical, Islam was always non-dual right from the start.
Islam itself means "to surrender" and gives the hint what to do to realize what is behind.
The five pillars of Islam are as follows:
1. "Eshhedü enla ilaha illallah ve eshhedü enla Muhammedu resul ullah", meaning: "I testify that there is no god, only Allah and I testify that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah."
-> So already here every muslim starts with this basis. Allah alone, Muhammad as an expression of Allah has come to tell this.
When Muhammed comes face to face with Allah, Allah asks: "What have you brought?". Muhammad says: "Nothing". Allah is very pleased and grants him a wish. Muhammad says: "May everyone be able to see you like me". Allah says: "Then let them do the prayer".
2. The prayer called salah or namaz: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...5/Mosque.jpg
-> Muhammad says: "Salah, the light of my eye"
This kind of prayer is to be done 5 times per day in speific times. In other words it works with astrological laws.
Then it is performed with Mudras, bodily movements and mental prayer, which is like a very long mantra. All the movements stretch the spine and end with the forehead brought down, attention at the area between the eyebrows in total surrender.
In addition to that, all people who practice the salah do it with the direction to a stone that is not from the earth.
Everyone who practices yogic techniques should clearly see that this prayer uses some known elements in a different way to open up the nervous system in the human body with the aim to see god the way Muhammad did.
3. Fasting in Ramadan for one month.
-> detoxification, reduction of the earth and water elements in the human body causing the fire to decrease too and air to start to dominate. Air - space - self - Allah.
4. Zakat, in other words: sharing worldy wealth with those who need.
-> Yogani would say: outpouring of divine love =P
5. Hajj, one time in life going to that otherworldy stone in Mecca.
-> that stone is some kind of a concentration place which directly comes into line with the crown of a muslim who practices the prayer.
Also those who walk around it do nothing else than what the whole of existence does: planets around suns, suns around great stars, planetary systems around galaxys, electrons around nucleons, mevlevi sufis around their own hearts etc..
---
Everything in the Islam is for the realization of nonduality alone. In my family right from the childhood every muslim kid I know knew that everything is god. But knowing in terms of believing they know. To realize the first pillar, the other 4 are given.
It is just the media that concentrates about crazy people that in the name of Allah do crazy things =P They put out falsly interpret verses of the Kur'an that has nothing to do with Muhammad's life and the main message, which is: La ilaha illa Allah.
Sufism and Tasavvuf with their starter Hz. Ali preserve the essence of Islam in unbroken lineages with realized heads. So they are "Islam practiced within the grace-space of a living realized human" that is often called sheikh or pir or in modern words a sufi-master.
It is hard to find good stuff about Islam, Sufism etc. in written words. There are many good arabian, persian and turk books. Nearly none of them are available in other languages. That is most probably one of the reasons why the media is like it is. And for sure other politicians also like it the way the media presents Islam.
@Kirtanman: this came into my mind before I clicked on the link to the book. Good to see that there are others too who got the very simple meaning of the first pillar =P
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Edited by - Holy on Sep 08 2010 8:19:21 PM |
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - Sep 08 2010 : 10:29:34 PM
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Beautiful, Holy; thanks for this!
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Jo-self
USA
225 Posts |
Posted - Sep 08 2010 : 10:46:08 PM
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Holy,
By your presentation, all of the major religions, and not their esoteric hidden side, would also classify as non-dual and also as quasi-yogic. After all, if you attend a Catholic mass you will be almost doing the same motions as the Sun Salutations as you sit, kneel, stand, etc. as the ceremony commences.
Non-dual does not mean that there is only one God, but that God is all there is, One without a second. Where there is a second, there is fear. Hence the tendency of religions to be easily subverted to any cause (as in the current 911 controversies in USA).
jo-self.
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Edited by - Jo-self on Sep 09 2010 06:07:24 AM |
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swaha
Lebanon
88 Posts |
Posted - Sep 09 2010 : 08:00:40 AM
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great treasures being shared here..
truth is One
Light is reflected in different pieces of a broken mirror
we are busy with the shapes of the pieces
and we miss the same Light that is found in each one of them
before words there was silence
and silence is all there IS
ISlam
sufISm
christianISm
judaISm
buddhISm
hinduISm
.
.
.
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Holy
796 Posts |
Posted - Sep 09 2010 : 09:55:10 AM
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@Jo-self
I can't speak of every religion, but the major ones all have the very same elements of nonduality expoed in different words. And with different means that all affect the human nervous system in ways that make realization more easy over time.
If one looks closer to the first pillar and the main sentence: la ilaha illa Allah:
Allah comes out of the fusion of el ilah. Ilah not only means god but in its essence power or source or energy.
la means nothing or there is no. illa means "else then" or "only". El means "the". Put it together, you come to:
There is no power/source/energy else then the power/source/energy.
Within the Kur'an you find more deeper explanations, how Allah creates out of his light the 7 planes of earth, the 7 heavens and those in between. Physical - astral - mental/causal.
The Ihlas Sura (112) explains: "Allah is the one alone, unborn and undying, the source of everything and in everything, yet untouched by anything. Nothing compares to him."
How nonduality is exposed through Jesus and in the Bible was already explained in great depth by Sri Yukteshwar, Yogananda and Co.
"In the beginning was the word and the word was with god. And god was the word and everything is made out of the word. And there is nothing that is not made out of the word." "I and the father are one."
"All is brahman". "Everything is made of OM, OM is brahman". "Brahman is everything and yet transcendental to everything."
When it comes to the methods, Jesus taught love and prayer. Sooner or later that may also end in realization. I am not aware of many christian realized people. I am aware of many muslim realized people who practiced the salah over many years and decades.
It all depends on reasearch about the subject. And surely, some methods are more efficient than others.
The reason why I am here too =P Yoga is really supreme when it comes to efficiency. |
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - Sep 09 2010 : 6:52:48 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Jo-self
Holy,
By your presentation, all of the major religions, and not their esoteric hidden side, would also classify as non-dual and also as quasi-yogic. After all, if you attend a Catholic mass you will be almost doing the same motions as the Sun Salutations as you sit, kneel, stand, etc. as the ceremony commences.
Non-dual does not mean that there is only one God, but that God is all there is, One without a second. Where there is a second, there is fear. Hence the tendency of religions to be easily subverted to any cause (as in the current 911 controversies in USA).
jo-self.
Hi Jo-Self & All,
Jo-self -- good points --- when there is (the dream of) a second, there is fear .... yes. The dream of separation causes all the trouble, actually and literally.
Holy makes good points, though, regarding the fact that the teachings themselves are often largely, and/or fairly clearly non-dual, in all religions -- not just the esoteric schools.
The esoteric schools within each religion are essentially identical, except for the names of the symbols -- the overall map is the same (how could it not be? It points the way to reality, now; wholeness.)
However, the mainstream facets of all religions have been led and managed by people dreaming from egoic consciousness for a very long time -- and therefore, they have not been able to understand, or to articulate, what is, and was, originally taught.
As the saying goes:
You can't judge a car by its driver.
Or, to paraphrase Jesus ..... "With only the blind driving ......... the results will tend to be loud and expensive."
And, just as the essential truth, especially as far as the sacred texts of all religions were concerned, is encoded within layers of meaning, for a variety of reasons -- these layers can help us to "cross-check" the math, so to speak.
When esoteric, and linguistically-verifiable layers of teaching are revealed, via the Sanskrit of Yogic, Vedic and Tantric texts, the Arabic of the Quran, the Hebrew of the Torah/Old Testament and so on .... the elegance and brilliance and sophistication and beauty ... and non-dual/wholeness .... that each each tradition indicates, at essence .. is revealed.
Ultimately, though, we can only know for ourselves, via seeing/consciously being what is indicated -- meaning: it's not something we can take anyone else's word for, no matter what the language or message ... and originally, no spiritual/reality teaching ever asked anyone to do so.
For instance, many people know the phrase:
lâ ilâha illâ allâh (as Holy outlined) -- which is usually translated into English as "There is no God but Allah" ... which misses the entire point of the saying, and which (again, as Holy pointed out) the original Arabic makes quite clear.
A more accurate translation is:
"There is no God; only Allah."
Now, if by "God" someone means Wholeness, then that's as good a term as Allah ... but most people, when they think of God, think of something other than themselves and other than the wholeness .... it creates a dream ... the nightmare involving "a second", as you, Jo-self, mentioned.
lâ ilâha illâ allâh is actually one of the most clearly non-dual sentiments from any major religion -- though the others have at least one or two of similar clarity, as well.
For instance, considering the Abrahamic traditions alone (which are usually perceived as being "the most dual" of the major religions) -- the Hebrew Shema - Shema Yisrael Adonai Eloheinu Adonai Echad - Hear, O Israel: the Lord is our God, the Lord is One - says the same exact thing as lâ ilâha illâ allâh.
The Shema doesn't say "the Lord is the One God" - the Shema says "the Lord is One."
lâ ilâha illâ allâh doesn't say "Allah is the One God" - it says "OnlyAllah" .... only All; only Wholeness now; ONE.
In Christianity, Jesus said "I and my Father are One" -- not "the same person" ---- ONE - nothing can be other than an apparent facet of the wholeness, appearing within the wholeness, to another facet of the wholeness ------ there's only wholeness.
As in Not-Two.
As in Non-Dual.
As in A-dvaita.
Just This That IS -- as Swaha kindly pointed out. (Thanks, Swaha!)
Wholeheartedly,
Kirtanman
Even scientists say
Everything is just Light
Not created, destroyed
But eternally bright
~LIVE, They Stood Up For Love.
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - Sep 09 2010 : 6:53:34 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by swaha
great treasures being shared here..
truth is One
Light is reflected in different pieces of a broken mirror
we are busy with the shapes of the pieces
and we miss the same Light that is found in each one of them
before words there was silence
and silence is all there IS
ISlam
sufISm
christianISm
judaISm
buddhISm
hinduISm
.
.
.
Beautiful - YES - Thank You.
_/\_
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Jo-self
USA
225 Posts |
Posted - Sep 18 2010 : 09:03:45 AM
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Sorry, not sold on the concept. We must be careful about revisionist history when looking at old religions. Just like when you have a hammer everything looks like a nail, so to when you smell of high-level eastern philosophy, everything is a bouquet of mystical meanings. In fact, the pronouncements of religions, especially the Abrahmic religions, must be seen in context as revolutions against the many gods worshiped at the time. The One God, though whole and non-divisible, became then an Ether, a transcended Other that one could, by going into the Mysteries or becoming part of the in-crowd (monastic), contact and surrender oneself, "surrender to the force Luke." "Not that", or all the Only God talk, is just code words to say, only bring your money to me, everyone else is wrong, only my volcano is the one with God at the top.
Its hard for today's people to imagine the world thousands of years ago. There was darkness at night. No light bulbs, and the stars gave a glow to all below. It was flat, earth below a sky, that is all. Only in the European Renaissance did perspective come about (so to speak). Flat, dark, with danger in the shadows. Only your multiple tribal Gods protected you. Or you could embrace that darkness and mystery and transcend fear, the One God was surrender to that external void, the internal void with the external dark. An embrace of the light of the dream world, the inner vision, the internal sounds of the body resonating in the humming of the forests or the whisperings of the plains.
The researchers, like Marcia Eliade (don't remember the name), or my old professor Antonio T. DeNicolas, really dig into the rise of esoteric thought, how many believe it came from just Shamanistic practices, or as my professor wrote, how ancient vedic man was operating in a different sensorium mode, sound. So, the meme of the lone man going off into the journey and coming back with the truth, while nice, is not really true. Truth is being created now.
Off topic: Part of the problem when nations at different world views fight. Afghanistan is at that flat earth level to some extent. And, the western powers, America is blinded by the light. Why this current situation is compared to Vietnam.
Sure there are glimmers of transcended truth in all religions, how can there not be, humans have one physical genome. There were glimmers of truths in old and abandoned science theories too. I'm still puzzled why we still teach about Freudian theories, for example, when really they have been obviated. Same thing with conventional religions. 2000 years of the same spiel. Aren't people tired of this yet?
Oh yea, ask your local enlightened Iman, priest, rabbi, yogi, and all that, so God = Allah = Brahma = Yahweh = Unified Field? They may cop to it, but I doubt the call to prayer in all the middle east will ever call people to Brahma.
Oops, too many thoughts in the morning. Have to go do my practice. Btw, I do see your points, and agree with them, I do. But I am large, and can contain contradictions. :)
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - Oct 28 2010 : 8:40:13 PM
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A Sufi Kirtan - La ilaha ilallah
The Sufi translations of the Arabic is:
There is no (external, conceptual) God; there is (only) Allah (Wholeness).
Wholeheartedly,
Kirtanman
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - Oct 28 2010 : 8:43:42 PM
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Excellent book on the non-dual essence of Sufism:
The Garden Of Truth by Seyyed Hossain Nasr
Wholeheartedly,
Kirtanman
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Holy
796 Posts |
Posted - Nov 01 2010 : 3:26:38 PM
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Excellent book on Sufism in general. Describes the lives of many different very great sufis:
http://www.amazon.com/Muslim-Saints...37211&sr=1-9
The author himself was a sufi and is famous for his master-work which I have not read:
http://www.amazon.com/Conference-Bi...36921&sr=1-1
The upper book is one of the best besides "Autobiography of a Yogi" and "Life and Teaching of the Masters of the Far East". All three cover up a very wide range of people from different paths living the same one thing in full expression. |
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Rattan
South Africa
41 Posts |
Posted - Nov 18 2010 : 09:13:03 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Kirtanman
A Sufi Kirtan - La ilaha ilallah
The Sufi translations of the Arabic is:
There is no (external, conceptual) God; there is (only) Allah (Wholeness).
Kirtanman - great to get this, for me, new understanding. I love it. |
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - Nov 18 2010 : 7:42:03 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Rattan
quote:
Originally posted by Kirtanman
A Sufi Kirtan - La ilaha ilallah
The Sufi translations of the Arabic is:
There is no (external, conceptual) God; there is (only) Allah (Wholeness).
Kirtanman - great to get this, for me, new understanding. I love it.
Awesome, Rattan - very happy to hear it!
Wholeheartedly,
Kirtanman |
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Advaitic Islam (aka Sufism)
