|
|
 |
|
| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
Shivoham
India
107 Posts |
 Posted - Sep 04 2010 : 12:16:31 PM
|
What is the difference between Kundalini yoga and Jnana yoga?
Wont kundalini rise with jnana yoga alone? I find symptoms of kundalini awakening with advaita meditation too
Is kundalini yoga necessary if a person can get enlightened through jnana yoga alone?
Is The type of Kundalini rising different in yogis and jnanis?
Yogis have great health and siddhis and can leave there body at wish. But jnanis doesn't necessarily have them. |
|
|
Holy
796 Posts |
Posted - Sep 06 2010 : 11:31:18 AM
|
I think what you really want know is: do I need to do Asanas, Pranayama, Concentration/Meditation etc. and spend a lot of time and energy into this? Or is mental action enough to realize who I am and to remain realized?
I am only aware of some people of the lineage of Ramana and Papaji who did nothing or a little bit of trying to find out who they are and got lasting liberation. So yes, it seems to be possible, but you don't know the causes of the past that led to this kind of awakening in those people. Maybe they practiced a lot in their last life time as was the case with Madhukar or they spent lots of time in the presence of such a master and his shakti-aura constantly did the whole work.
There are also some cases where people out of nothing realize and remain in that.
I myself was not able to realize and remain like that. So better don't rely on others, but just try out with all you have to find out the truth about you.
If it works and you are done, no questions left, all clear..
If not, you have lots of sources and help all around and inside. Perhaps some practices will come handy =P |
Edited by - Holy on Sep 06 2010 11:35:51 AM |
 |
|
|
Shivoham
India
107 Posts |
Posted - Sep 06 2010 : 12:53:21 PM
|
I realized who am I and remained realized for some months enjoying the freedom of savikalpa samadhi two years back. But after sometime i found difficulty in staying in samadhi. one reason for that I think was I forced my weak body to do yoga underestimating what I already have with me.This was because the bliss and satisfaction in savikalpa samadhi is not as perfect as Nirvikalpa.I thought I will get something bigger than that through yoga. This empowered my ego and made my body sicker and eventually my samadhi became weaker and weaker.
From then on I have been going through a difficult period. It is so disturbing to stay in lie after uniting with truth. Even a slightest sense of duality is disturbing. A tiny vibration of lust shakes the whole self.
It must be from this pain I ask these kind of question.
But leaving all those things aside, what I really want to know here is that: What is the difference between kundalini raising in yogis and jnanis.
My doubts started after reading this in the book 'Kundalini Yoga' by Shivananda
In the first place, there are two main lines of Yoga, namely, Dhyana or Bhavana-Yoga and
Kundalini Yoga; and there is a marked difference between the two. The first class of Yoga is that in
which ecstasy (Samadhi) is obtained by intellective processes (Kriya-Jnana) of meditation and the
like, with the aid, it may be, of auxiliary processes of Mantra or Hatha Yoga (other than the rousing
of Kundalini) and by detachment from the world; the second stands apart as that portion of Hatha
Yoga in which, though intellective processes are not neglected, the creative and sustaining Sakti of
the whole body is actually and truly united with the Lord Consciousness. The Yogin makes Her
xix
introduce him to Her Lord, and enjoys the bliss of union through her. Though it is he who arouses
Her, it is She who gives knowledge or Jnana, for She is Herself that. The Dhyana Yogin gains what
acquaintance with the Supreme state his own meditative powers can give him and knows not the
enjoyment of union with Siva in and through the fundamental Body-power. The two forms of Yoga
differ both as to method and result. The Hatha Yogin regards his Yoga and its fruit as the highest;
the Jnana Yogin may think similarly of his own. Kundalini is so renowned that many seek to know
her. Having studied the theory of this Yoga, one may ask: “Can one get on without it?” The answer
is: “It depends upon what you are looking for”. If you want to rouse Kundalini Sakti, to enjoy the
bliss of union of Siva and Sakti through Her and to gain the accompanying powers (Siddhis), it is
obvious that this end can be achieved only by the Kundalini Yoga. In that case, there are some risks
incurred. But if Liberation is sought without desire for union through Kundalini, then, such Yoga is
not necessary; for, Liberation may be obtained by Pure Jnana Yoga through detachment, the
exercise and then the stilling of the mind, without any rousing of the central Bodily-power at all.
Instead of setting out in and from the world to unite with Siva, the Jnana Yogin, to attain this result,
detaches himself from the world. The one is the path of enjoyment and the other of asceticism.
Samadhi may also be obtained on the path of devotion (Bhakti) as on that of knowledge. Indeed, the
highest devotion (Para Bhakti) is not different from Knowledge. Both are Realisation. But, whilst
Liberation (Mukti) is attainable by either method, there are other marked differences between the
two. A Dhyana Yogin should not neglect his body, knowing that as he is both mind and matter, each
reacts, the one upon the other. Neglect or mere mortification of the body is more apt to produce
disordered imagination than a true spiritual experience. He is not concerned, however, with the
body in the sense that the Hatha Yogin is. It is possible to be a successful Dhyana Yogin and yet to
be weak in body and health, sick and short-lived. His body, and not he himself, determines when he
shall die. He cannot die at will. When he is in Samadhi, Kundalini Sakti is still sleeping in the
Muladhara, and none of the physical symptoms and psychical bliss or powers (Siddhis) described
as accompanying Her rousing are observed in his case. The ecstasy which he calls “Liberation
while yet living” (Jivanmukti) is not a state like that of real Liberation. He may be still subject to a
suffering body from which he escapes only at death, when if at all, he is liberated. His ecstasy is in
the nature of a meditation which passes into the Void (Bhavana-samadhi) effected through negation
of all thought-form (Chitta-Vritti) and detachment from the world—a comparatively negative
process in which the positive act of raising the Central Power of the body takes no part. By his
effort, the mind which is a product of Kundalini as Prakriti Sakti, together with its worldly desires,
is stilled so that the veil produced by mental functioning is removed from Consciousness. In Laya
Yoga, Kundalini Herself, when roused by the Yogin (for such rousing is his act and part), achieves
for him this illumination.
But why, it may be asked, should one trouble over the body and its Central power, the more
particularly as there are unusual risks and difficulties involved? The answer has been already given.
There is completeness and certainty of Realisation through the agency of the Power which is
Knowledge itself (Jnanarupa Sakti), an intermediate acquisition of powers (Siddhis), and
intermediate and final enjoyment.
If the Ultimate Reality is the One which exists in two aspects of quiescent enjoyment of the
Self, and of liberation from all form and active enjoyment of objects, that is, as pure spirit and spirit
in matter, then a complete union with Reality demands such unity in both of its aspects. It must be
known both here (Iha) and there (Amutra). When rightly apprehended and practised, there is truth
xx
in the doctrine which teaches that man should make the best of both worlds. There is no real
incompatibility between the two, provided action is taken in conformity with the universal law of
manifestation. It is held to be false teaching that happiness hereafter can only be had by absence of
enjoyment now, or in deliberately sought for suffering and mortification. It is the one Siva who is
the Supreme Blissful Experience and who appears in the form of man with a life of mingled
pleasure and pain. Both happiness here and the bliss of Liberation here and hereafter may be
attained, if the identity of these Sivas be realised in every human act. This will be achieved by
making every human function, without exception, a religious act of sacrifice and worship (Yajna).
In the ancient Vaidik ritual, enjoyment by way of food and drink was preceded and accompanied by
ceremonial sacrifice and ritual. Such enjoyment was the fruit of the sacrifice and the gift of the
Devas. At a higher stage in the life of a Sadhaka, it is offered to the One from whom all gifts come
and of whom the Devatas are inferior limited forms. But this offering also involves a dualism from
which the highest Monistic (Advaita) Sadhana is free. Here the individual life and the world life are
known as one. And the Sadhaka, when eating or drinking or fulfilling any other of the natural
functions of the body, does so, saying and feeling “Sivoham”. It is not merely the separate
individual who thus acts and enjoys. It is Siva who does so in and through him. Such a one
recognises, as has been said, that his life and the play of all its activities are not a thing apart, to be
held and pursued egotistically for its and his own separate sake, as though enjoyment was
something to be filched from life by his own unaided strength and with a sense of separatedness; but
his life and all its activities are conceived as part of the Divine action in Nature (Shakti) manifesting
and operating in the form of man. He realises in the pulsating beat of his heart the rhythm which
throbs through and is the song of the Universal Life. To neglect or to deny the needs of the body, to
think of it as something not divine, is to neglect and deny the greater life of which it is a part, and to
falsify the great doctrine of the unity of all and of the ultimate identity of Matter and Spirit.
Governed by such a concept, even the lowliest physical needs take on a cosmic significance. The
body is Shakti; its needs are Shakti’s needs. When man enjoys, it is Shakti who enjoys through him.
In all he sees and does, it is the Mother who looks and acts, His eyes and hands are Hers. The whole
body and all its functions are Her manifestations. To fully realise Her as such is to perfect this
particular manifestation of Hers which is himself. Man when seeking to be the master of himself,
seeks so on all the planes physical, mental and spiritual nor can they be severed, for they are all
related, being but differing aspects of the one all-pervading Consciousness. Who, it may be asked,
is the more divine; he who neglects and spurns the body or mind that he may attain some fancied
spiritual superiority, or he who rightly cherishes both as forms of the one Spirit which they clothe?
Realisation is more speedily and truly attained by discerning Spirit in and as all being and its
activities, then by fleeing from and casting these aside as being either unspiritual or illusory and
impediments in the path. If not rightly conceived, they may be impediments and the cause of fall;
otherwise they become instruments of attainment; and what others are there to hand? And so, when
acts are done in the fight feeling and frame of mind (Bhava), those acts give enjoyment; and the
repeated and prolonged Bhava produces at length that divine experience (Tattva-Jnana) which is
Liberation. When the Mother is seen in all things, She is at length realised as She who is beyond
them all.
These general principles have their more frequent application in the life of the world before
entrance on the path of Yoga proper. The Yoga here described is, however, also an application of
these same principles, in so far as it is claimed that thereby both Bhukti and Mukti (enjoyment and
liberation) are attained.
|
|
|
|
Shivoham
India
107 Posts |
|
|
Holy
796 Posts |
Posted - Sep 06 2010 : 9:02:47 PM
|
Complicated stuff =P Gurunath also talks about the difference between Raja-Yoga alone and Hatha+Raja-Yoga and he also says that the latter is more complete. Can't help you in here, what's your aim?
If you look at your own experiences, you see a period of freedom and a following period of instability and then a loss of freedom. Whatever the causes are, it shows you that there are still causes that create the great god-cheat. And these causes are stored in your bodily system from physical to causal. If this still does not help to answer your questions by yourself, you could provide this board with more information about your past leading to what you call savikalpa samadhi.
On the other hand, the general advice will be the same anyway. Why not practicing and enquiring? Practicing means dissolving the causes that hinder more easy enquiry into absolute truth. |
Edited by - Holy on Sep 06 2010 11:09:08 PM |
|
|
|
Shivoham
India
107 Posts |
Posted - Sep 07 2010 : 11:21:33 AM
|
Thank you for the advise. But forget about my things.If I could go there and remain there once, I will be able to do it again. Its a matter of time and some conditions of body and mind.And the practices and enquiring will go on until then.Thats inevitable.
What is really making me go crazy is that complicated stuff above.
Any way.. the ultimate state is the oneness were there is no Mukti or Bukti or a desire for Bukti or Mukti.Everything is within the ultimate, nothing excluded. |
|
|
|
manigma
India
1065 Posts |
Posted - Sep 08 2010 : 01:17:27 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Shivoham
What is really making me go crazy is that complicated stuff above.
I always wake myself up when things start going crazy.
Q: I HAVE HEARD THAT ALL BUDDHAS IN THE PAST, PRESENT AND FUTURE PREACHED THE SAME DHARMA AND COUNTLESS BEINGS WERE SAVED FROM SUFFERING. IS THIS NOT TRUE?
BODHIDHARMA:
YOU HAVE HEARD SOMEONE SPEAK OF DREAMS, AND YOU YOURSELF ARE ACTUALLY DREAMING. WHATEVER YOU FIGURE WITH YOUR DUALISTIC MIND NEVER MAKES A TRUE ACCOUNT OF MIND ESSENCE, THEREFORE, I CALL YOU A DREAMER.
DREAM IS ONE THING AND REALIZATION ANOTHER. DO NOT MIX THEM TOGETHER. WISDOM IN THE DREAM IS NOT THE REAL WISDOM. ONE WHO HAS TRUE WISDOM DOES NOT HOLD SELF-RECOGNITION. BUDDHAS IN THE PAST, PRESENT AND FUTURE ARE IN THE REALM BEYOND COGNITION. IF YOU SHUT OFF YOUR THINKING FACULTY, BLOCKING OFF THE ROAD OF YOUR MIND, YOU WILL ENTER A DIFFERENT SPHERE. UNTIL THAT TIME, WHATEVER YOU THINK, WHATEVER YOU SAY, WHATEVER YOU DO IS NOTHING BUT FOOLISHNESS IN DREAMLAND.
http://balbro.com/lotus/ |
|
|
|
Shivoham
India
107 Posts |
Posted - Sep 08 2010 : 09:15:35 AM
|
| All are just some vibrations within me |
|
|
|
manigma
India
1065 Posts |
Posted - Sep 08 2010 : 12:36:53 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Shivoham
All are just some vibrations within me
And you are within whom?
|
|
|
|
Shivoham
India
107 Posts |
Posted - Sep 09 2010 : 08:06:22 AM
|
| you |
|
|
|
manigma
India
1065 Posts |
Posted - Sep 09 2010 : 09:43:39 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Shivoham
you
Close your eyes
Just feel and realize
It is real and not a dream
I am in you
And you are in me
(Beyond the Invisible - Enigma)
|
|
|
|
Shivoham
India
107 Posts |
Posted - Sep 09 2010 : 12:05:18 PM
|
How the **** you get quotes for everything! |
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
|
|
| AYP Public Forum |
© Contributing Authors (opinions and advice belong to the respective authors) |
|
|
|
|
some doubts
