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Victor
USA
910 Posts |
 Posted - Feb 19 2006 : 2:04:58 PM
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Interesting thoughts. particularly in regards to Iyengar and his possible acceptance. As a graduate of the Iyengar Institute I can say with reasonable certainty that Iyengar himself is certainly well aware of the basic techniques that are taught in AYP. kechari Mudra is described in Light On Yoga though not taught in the Iyengar system. Amaroli is very familiar to any student of Ayurveda (which Gita Iyengar practices). and in India mantra meditation is standard in any spritual practice. Mr Iyengar is very concerned with maintaining the purity of his teaching even to the extent of requiring people to use certain specific instructions while teaching as opposed to different use of language ("saying to "ground the femurs" is a big no no). I would not expect the Iyengar higher ups to accept AYP as an integrated teaching if they are not already teaching those techniques. Now, that said I see no reason why an Iyengar school might not welcome offering classes in AYP for students who are ready for a more internal practice. As for Rodney Yee, I haven't spoken to him since he became a big Yoga celebrity but we did go to school together. If we got him onboard it would be a huge PR benefit if that is what we are seeking. Yoga journal is also a very important venue for publicty though I am not personally very excited about their magazine anymore they certainly do reach the mainstream.
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yogani99
USA
153 Posts |
Posted - Feb 19 2006 : 2:11:52 PM
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Hello Star, and welcome!
That is a very kind suggestion on tithing. For those who do not know, donations are accepted at AYP on Paypal.com.
My suggestion is that donations be primarily for what you feel AYP has given to you, rather than for what you think AYP needs. That way there will always be a measure of fairness in it. All funds are used to make the knowledge available to as many people as possible around the world. So, like any other kind of helping that is done, donations are part of the horizontal transmission of AYP.
All forms of assistance are much appreciated.
And, yes, it would be very nice to be doing this work without having the bills pile up. Someday it will be like that, I hope. 
The guru is in you.
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yogani99
USA
153 Posts |
Posted - Feb 19 2006 : 3:02:06 PM
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Hi Victor:
Thanks for your insights on the Iyengar situation.
Certainly almost anyone of good reputation endorsing the AYP work would be a huge plus. I thought of Iyengar because of the large influence and reach he and his organization have, and the apparent matchup between what they teach and what AYP offers.
While it is true they can move to make the necessary additions themselves, they have not so far. It is something of a mystery. In fact, this same mystery is found in all the major traditions. They seem to have difficulty innovating beyond the original yoga tool set that has been developed or inherited. Of course, the tendency to avoid integrative innovation within the ranks also makes it difficult to accept innovation from the outside.
Nevertheless, if Iyengar yoga teachers (or any others) have the flexibility to bring in what you call "internal" methods (deep meditation, spinal breathing, etc.), then that would be good for everyone.
So we are talking about two things here:
1. Obtaining public endorsements of AYP by reputable people in the field of yoga.
2. Direct utilization of AYP by yoga teachers at all levels who have the independence to do so. There are currently no requirements or restrictions from this end on how this might be done.
To address Guy's earlier comment, what we are not talking about here is getting into bed with a big brother and selling out the AYP mission to someone else. It is about finding synergies in the marketplace and leveraging them to everyone's advantage. It is the students who will benefit the most, and that is what it is about, after all.
So, Victor, Jim, and everyone who has contacts with yoga teachers, famous or not, I'd appreciate anything you can do to make the connections that can help take AYP, and all of yoga, to the next level.
We are having a taste of the possibilities of self-directed integrated practices with the AYP approach. There is no reason why everyone can't have the experience, without upsetting the existing apple carts. It is simply a matter of communications and moving toward integration of the most effective methods. That is the thrust of all good science, including good yoga science.
The guru is in you.
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Feb 19 2006 : 3:54:08 PM
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Hi all
I have never heard of Iyengar....
What's the best link to catch up?
May all your Nows be Here |
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Victor
USA
910 Posts |
Posted - Feb 19 2006 : 4:37:23 PM
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| Katrine for Iyengar I would first suggest his book "Light On Yoga" rather than starting with a website. It is a classic in the field |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Feb 19 2006 : 6:17:50 PM
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quote:
My suggestion is that donations be primarily for what you feel AYP has given to you, rather than for what you think AYP needs.
Respectfully Yogani, I have to say... I cannot afford to pay AYP for what it has given me. |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Feb 19 2006 : 8:55:07 PM
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| Me neither- i'm running a tab. When they open centers I'll be doing maintenance. |
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star
12 Posts |
Posted - Feb 19 2006 : 10:30:14 PM
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Hi guys
I have another suggestion. I read this book “The Secrets of the millionaire’s mind" which is about how to think about creating and keeping money, how to market your product effectively and how to think and change your money blue print. It is all about consciousness. This company is giving free workshop around the country in this subject which I'm going to attend. Since we have a universal product already "AYP" all we need to know is how to market it effectively if that is what we want. So I suggest some of you go to this workshop. Here is the site check it out. www.millionairemind.com. It is free until July, then it will cost more than 2000 to attend.
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yogani99
USA
153 Posts |
Posted - Feb 19 2006 : 10:39:27 PM
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Hi Shanti & Etherfish:
Well, it is not intended as a requirement. Only a way of avoiding future expectations on the AYP work, which I am a bit sensitive about.
In any case, I am very happy that you feel you are benefiting. There are lots of ways to help out, and I know you are in your own way. It is all balanced in the long run. We are all giving to someone -- paying it forward. It is the nature of what we are cultivating within ourselves.
The guru is in you.
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Feb 20 2006 : 03:07:59 AM
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Another book to recommend (arguably better for beginners and intermediates) is "Yoga the Iyengar Way".
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Feb 20 2006 : 09:04:48 AM
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Iyengar official website:
http://www.bksiyengar.com/
If you google, there are a lot of other sites. |
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yogani99
USA
153 Posts |
Posted - Feb 20 2006 : 10:18:49 AM
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Hi All:
To follow up on the yoga teachers discussion, where do yoga teachers and suppliers of yoga supplies and books gather to share? Are there yoga trade shows and conventions? I have not found any so far. Do Iyengar, International Yoga Federation or other large yoga organizations sponsor any? Do Yoga Journal or other large yoga publications sponsor any?
I think we have not found AYP's main audience yet. We have been relying on the audience finding AYP, which has been happening here on the websites. But it is only the tip of the iceberg.
The AYP books were exhibited heavily at a recent new age trade show. It has hardly made a ripple in book sales. I realize now that, for the most part, new agers are not AYP's main audience. We will dutifully exhibit in another new age trade show in June, a large librarian's trade show in March, and the world's largest book trade show (Book Expo America) in May. But I think all of these will miss our primary audience, which is serious practitioners -- yoga teachers and avid yogis and yoginis. Where do these rare birds gather in groups? Birds of a feather, you know. That is where we should be exhibiting the AYP books.
Any ideas?
The guru is in you.
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Feb 20 2006 : 12:00:16 PM
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I think this is a great example of the sort of situation where the more we press and try to evangelize, the less it'll work. There are a whole lot of people out there pressing and evangelizing various spiritual programs, and so long as AYP is promoted at trade shows and the like, it will be perceived as just another contestant on the marketing obstacle course. If AYP were truly no more than "just another contestant", then, indeed, joining the pack and running hard would be the thing to do.
But if AYP grows more quietly, more organically, more via the slow, unforced build of word of mouth (i.e. not because any of us are ASKING practitioners to promote, but just the viral outgrowth of folks finding tremenous value and, naturally, spreading the word on their own), that'll be more successful in the end, because AYP has the advantage of being tremendously efficacious. And efficacious stuff promotes itself....very gradually. The organic way requires a lot more time, but a lot less stress, energy, and money. The pressing way is high stress and high resource, but if timing's right and the market's right (I'm not sure either are), you can maybe make things happen a little quicker.
In other words, if I shlep boxes of books to every yoga class in town, I'm seen as one of a vast sea of proselytizers, and that is more likely to repel than to work. But if I do AYP and get calm and peaceful and even just five people deeply notice and three look into AYP, that's a much stronger thing. obviously, it takes longer, though. But the transmission/dissemination is at a deep level, and showing a dignity that's befitting of this practice. (And this, incidentally, is what I'm doing. I'm slowly slipping the books to a few yoga teachers who know me well and respect me...not the most famous ones, not the ones with the largest classes, just ones who are likely to understand. To some I give one meditation book, to others, a bunch of them to give out. And I'm very very careful to not be pushy about it, because that just turns off people.)
Some people with something to promote/market aim to go the organic route, but also push and goose a little by encouraging people to encourage people. Sort of a hybrid solution. That may work, but AYP is good enough that you don't need to push people. You just need to give them time to experience the fruits. As they do, dissemination will start to occur. Yogani, I think even if you do absolutely nothing else, this will catch on. But slowly. Yogani, I hate to see you spending so much money. Let us do that heavy lifting for you....but organically. Over years and years. The operation I work for managed to do exactly that...created a known brand without spending a dime by letting other people advocate. We never pushed (we just did what we did as well as possible and counted on people to fall in love with what we did). And that lack of pushiness was key to our success. If we'd pushed, it wouldn't have happened the same way.
I recommend an AYP approach to promoting AYP. It's slow, very slow, but if we can wait a decade or two, and not get caught up in visions of thriving franchises, countless people could eventually be practicing.
Hmmm...just reread this posting. One very important point: if anyone DOES have a brilliant way to promote via "pushier" tactics, go for it! If Victor wants to shoot Rodney Yee an AYP book, go for it (I've sent one to another yoga star, fwiw)! Let's grab all the low fruit, for sure! I'm not suggesting giving up on scheming to get the word out a little faster. I'm just saying it will all happen on its own over time, anyway (how can it not?) and that pushing too much, especially via conventional channels, might be counterproductive. |
Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Feb 20 2006 12:28:44 PM |
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yogani99
USA
153 Posts |
Posted - Feb 20 2006 : 12:29:06 PM
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Hi Jim:
I agree with you. If the thing is truly an innovation, a sea change, it will almost certainly be discovered eventually. But it must be seen by someone somewhere for this process to begin and progress. There is little doubt that if it is seen by many someones in many places the dissemination will happen faster.
It is a question of preference for velocity. Can we walk to Los Angeles from New York? Sure. Very few will want to go that way. Some may prefer to drive. Most will fly. All options are available, and we know what our choices are. The key is in knowing the choices -- having them visible, and being free to choose.
Exhibiting the AYP books (having them visible to the right audiences) is a pretty benign process. So is word of mouth. Yes, it surely is a hybrid. Everyone has their own approach to passing information, and that is honored and appreciated here.
I remind you that this community would not be here now if AYP had not been very heavily promoted in the early Yahoo days, and again when the several websites were launched. Would a slower path have been okay? Sure, but maybe you would not have run across it by now either. Well, I am very glad you did... 
The guru is in you.
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Feb 20 2006 : 3:43:12 PM
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I'm gladder than you, believe me.
Yogani, if you walked into the woods and never did another thing, the practice would continue and grow.
We can argue on the fine points, and we (and you) can do more or less to push the process, but I'm certain enough of this to offer it as a guarantee (and who among us would want to disappoint you?!). I told you I was pretty confident about this a year ago, but that was based on my own experience. Seeing some of the recent postings (especially the ones from Shanti and Etherfish, above) confirms it.
I've been to a lot of yoga schools, ashrams, zendos, gurukulums, retreats, etc. And I've seen lots of touchy-feely people spout platitudes while sinking deeper and deeper into the prisons of their personal dramas. But this $hit works.
And enough of us know it that we're never going to stop doing it, and it's changing our lives. And that can't POSSIBLY help but grow outward in time. Even if just ten of us are seeing the benefit of this practice (and I bet it's many more than that), it's enough. This is far, far deeper than consumer preference for, say, soda or running shoes. People won't necessarily contribute via the PayPal link (though I did), but they will spread it just because it's part of who they are.
Anything else is gravy. |
Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Feb 20 2006 9:04:21 PM |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Feb 20 2006 : 10:11:34 PM
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Yes I think it is better to grow slowly. For instance I got 5 Deep Meditation books, and have only given four out so far. But those four were to people whom i am sure will read them.
The way to make something like this grow fast is to promote it in a way that catches people's eye. "Better sex, look better, reduce stress, get in shape, lose weight."
Those kind of things catch people's eyes, and they spend money on a product and forget it three months later.
This kind of thing catches on slowly, and only to special people who are ready, but a year later they are still interested.
There may be some quick boosts like if someone mentions it on a TV talk show, with a sudden boost in book sales, but that won't really do much to interest the kind of people who will really benefit. Those kind of people gather slowly, and read the forum!
Meridian tapping has been trying to grow for years even though they have cured thousands of phobias in 10 minutes treatment. Meridian resistance stretching has been trying to grow for years even though they can create permanent flexibility and cure psychological problems at the same time. But they have hundreds of avid students.
People in general don't understand what we're doing. They want to please God, or get powers or money or sex or recognition. How can you make people aware of ecstatic conductivity when science doesn't recognize the existance of prana? We would have to show them somehow that life can be better, and in a way that is measurable for them to be interested. |
Edited by - Etherfish on Feb 20 2006 10:25:07 PM |
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weaver
832 Posts |
Posted - Feb 20 2006 : 10:19:17 PM
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I share Jim's point of view in this matter of promoting AYP. I feel that AYP still is a very young science (the way it's organized in concentrated form), and I wouldn't be comfortable trying to sell this to the masses at this stage. As far as I know only 1 person has passed through the all the steps successfully, and he was of more than average motivation and spiritual readiness before he started. We don't know how various stages of purification will manifest on a wide range of practitioners with various emotional issues or obstructions in the nervous system. Or, if they have been taking drugs (prescription or not) or been drinking or smoking etc. And, I would feel guilty if I would throw AYP into the hands of those who may not have the maturity to use it wisely.
It's different to have the knowledge available like we have now, then only those who are really looking for it will find it, and those will likely be more ready for it. It's actually fairly easy to find AYP via Google if you search for common relevant terms. I think AYP needs to be tested on a wide range of subjects (and I am happy to be a test subject!) so there can be proof that they can finish the journey successfully, then that would make a great selling point too. |
Edited by - weaver on Feb 20 2006 11:48:13 PM |
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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - Feb 21 2006 : 03:32:18 AM
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I agree that Jim has given some very wise counsel and I am delighted to see it backed up by Etherfish and weaver.
Louis |
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yogani99
USA
153 Posts |
Posted - Feb 21 2006 : 10:52:29 AM
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Hi All:
I'm afraid I have to take issue. The reason good products and services are not well known is almost always because they have not been effectively promoted/marketed. And the reverse is true also. Chopra's and Tolle's fine works are well known not because they are better than other works, but because they have been effectively marketed.
"Marketing" is a sort of dirty word among purists. I think that is naive. It is easy to take the purist position when we think we already have the thing. But do we?
Consider this. Our spiritual progress depends as much on the other person finding their path as on the perception that we have found ours. It is a fact. So there is an urgency involved.
This is what drives all genuine spiritual teachers. It is a maturing of bhakti -- spiritual desire extending beyond our personal self to everyone else. We will know we have it when we become just as concerned about the spiritual progress of others as we are about our own, writing no one off as unworthy or unready -- no one. It is not for us to decide. It is for them to decide, and they cannot do that without adequate information.
Personal and global spiritual progress cannot be separated. When they are, the path is incomplete.
The guru is in you.
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Feb 21 2006 : 11:38:52 AM
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I'm not saying we/you shouldn't make effort to spread the word. What I'm saying is that whether marketing is done or not, the practice will spread (also that it might be counterproductive to push too hard).
I'm trying to reassure! :)
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Feb 21 2006 : 1:00:33 PM
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Re: my low fruit idea above, it certainly would be helpful if a high profile yoga teacher or two were to discover this practice (it goes without saying that they'd like it and help spread the word). And any of us who take asana class could certainly hand over a Meditation book tot he teacher without seeming overly proselytizing (yoga teachers are a good way to spread things). And, certainly, anyone I talk frankly to about yoga is someone I'd point to the practice.
Any other ideas out there for easy methods to get word around?
Agreed with Victor that this will never ever be endorsed by the Iyengar system, which is as hermetic as can be. However, the Iyengar system teaches NOTHING about meditation, so that community is ripe for unofficial help on such matters! |
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yogani99
USA
153 Posts |
Posted - Feb 21 2006 : 1:11:11 PM
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Hi All:
I promise not to insist that we shave our heads and hand out copies of Deep Meditation in airports. For those who are too young to know about that, consider yourselves lucky.
But seriously, I understand you, Jim, but I do not think you have been accurately interpreted. It is not necessarily "better" to go slow -- or even fast. What is "better" is for each person to follow their heart on this, and not subscribe to any particular point of view or dogma about it.
Do what makes your heart sing. That is the real bhakti in us. The rest is all a bunch of ideas, not to be imposed on anyone.
At the same time, there are certain facts of business that we should all be aware of. Contrary to popular belief, good things do not fall from the sky like manna from heaven. If you have heard about something good, you can be sure that someone (more likely many someones) has put in a lot of work to provide the visibility of that good thing for your benefit.
But listen, inside we all know what is the right thing to do. I'll take that over a dogmatic approach any day. But at the same time let us be realistic about causes and effects. We do that with our practices too, yes?
And if anyone feels like handing out AYP books at the airport, be my guest.
The guru is in you.
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Guy_51
USA
170 Posts |
Posted - Feb 21 2006 : 2:13:13 PM
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Hi all:
In terms of marketing,it seems to me we need to identify what groups or type of people are Prime Now for this work. My guess is people who already have a yoga teacher or already involved heavily in a spiritual philosophy would not be a high target market,much like the New Agers. They have their beliefs and are less open and flexible to new ideas,in my opinion.Then there are people who just are not ready in terms of their level of consciousness (no moral judgements here)
way to much ego. So what sorts of people fall in between these two extremes if you will? Maybe this is an over simplication but, I'm just trying to ask the question; Where can we be most effective with our time,enegry,and resources in "spreading the word"
Guy
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Guy_51
USA
170 Posts |
Posted - Feb 21 2006 : 2:22:39 PM
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Hi again:
If I were to place a full page ad in a magazine I wouldn't do it in Field and Stream or the Wall Street Journal or Mad Magazine or Boxing, for obvious reasons. I also wouldn't place the ad in Yoga Journal for less obvious reasons,like it might get lost with all the other yoga ads. So, where would you place your ad for AYP? Hypothetical of course. Where's our best source of potential newcomers?
Guy |
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yogani99
USA
153 Posts |
Posted - Feb 21 2006 : 4:29:18 PM
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quote:
Melissa wrote: What does everyone think of say a five day AYP retreat?
Hi Melissa:
Sounds nice. Wish I could. Maybe when all the books are done. Or maybe by then that long walk in the woods alone that Jim mentioned will be the best thing. If you all want to gather, go ahead. Don't let me hold you back.
The story you told me about your mother running off with your copy of Deep Meditation is a perfect example of it being impossible to know who will be interested. That is why everyone is a reasonable suspect. There is just no telling, especially with the small AYP E-Series books, which are designed for digestion by everyone.
On the other hand, we have to do some targeting or we will scatter our resources too thin. I think anyone involved in (or considering) yoga is fair game, especially teachers. I'll ask the question again -- Where do teachers gather in numbers? And, relating to Guy's question, what trade magazines do they read?
Yes, there are rigid types in yoga. But also plenty of people who have seen the value of daily practice who know there must be more than what they have experienced so far.
Welcome to the AYP smorgasbord, complete with instructions on how to eat it all without exploding! 
The guru is in you.
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taking responsibility for AYP
