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Guy_51
USA
170 Posts |
 Posted - Feb 14 2006 : 10:22:23 PM
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Long long time ago I read a story about the early development of Microsoft Corp. Bill Gates and Paul Allen wanted to hire this very talented gentleman to head their public relations department.
But there was one major obstacle, he already had this great position with Coca Cola Corp as a senior vice president Of sales making twice as much as Microsoft was able to offer him.
So at the very end of the final meeting between Gates, Allen and the Coke Executive they were all resigned to the fact that Microsoft just could't offer this guy what he already was making wi th coke and he was ready to walk,then, Bill Gates said to the Coke guy " So what do you want to do with your life, sell sugar water to the world or be directly involved in their enlightenment. At that moment the guy signed with microsoft.
Pretty good sale pitch by Gates, wouldn't you say?
Maybe we should all ask ourselves the same question.
Warmest regards
Guy |
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weaver
832 Posts |
Posted - Feb 14 2006 : 11:00:32 PM
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Agreed Guy, very good sales pitch!
He possibly had a slightly different view of what enlightenment is than we have. Maybe we already have asked ourselves that question and to some extent said yes. |
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Guy_51
USA
170 Posts |
Posted - Feb 15 2006 : 08:42:40 AM
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Hi Weaver:
Agreed, maybe most of us have already asked ourselves that or a similar question.
I just relate the story as "food for thought"
I don't intend on quitting my day job,but I do know how important it is for me to work on the AYP mission for the betterment of humanity.
Thanks
Guy |
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yogani99
USA
153 Posts |
Posted - Feb 15 2006 : 6:54:40 PM
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Hi Guy and Weaver:
You got me thinking...
I wonder if we have a franchising expert in our midst. The thought occurred that if we could muster the expertise, a chain of AYP Schools could happen someday. Of course, it would depend on the presence of skilled practitioners interested in moving into teaching. I see people with those skills rising quickly among us already. As our numbers grow, the skills will be there.
It would be the perfect venue for the AYP writings to be applied in the teaching environment on the local level.
We would obviously need professional educators, as well, to develop and administer the curriculum.
It could all be set up centrally and reproduced thousands of times in franchised AYP Schools all over the world. It could be set up as a real business, so those involved could make a living and provide for their families -- a small detail that all yogis and yoginis must attend to.
The interview question to the franchising expert might be, "What would you rather be doing with your life, selling hamburgers or worldwide enlightenment?"
And to the educator: "Would you rather be churning out diplomas or seers?"
The guru is in you.
PS -- If it evolved to become a successful corporation, that would also go a long way toward addressing the challenge of preserving the teachings long term, beyond all of our lifetimes.
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weaver
832 Posts |
Posted - Feb 15 2006 : 9:13:19 PM
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Wow, Yogani, that is a grand vision!
In those schools I don't think we would have to worry about too much noise. |
Edited by - weaver on Feb 15 2006 9:38:10 PM |
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Guy_51
USA
170 Posts |
Posted - Feb 15 2006 : 9:40:04 PM
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Hi yogani:
I firmly believe that for each and every person who has the potential in this life time to work on their spiritual growth and consider enlightenment as a possibility there has to be a question similar to the one Bill Gates asked.
I'm not exactly sure how that equates to AYP schools on the local level, but count me in.
If you think about any successful global venture they all have localized or satellite offices.The free online lessons is a noble effort and we are all very appreciative,but I wonder if it can be self sustaining. It seems to me people really need more hands on training you know, a little human contact.
Thank you for all you are doing for us.
Guy
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Feb 15 2006 : 10:59:30 PM
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I love it the way it is. i would never be attracted to a school teaching this stuff, and I think the open forum type education can be self-sustaining. I got just part way through the online lessons when I bought the book, even though I was getting the same thing for free.
I think it would be very difficult to sustain schools, unless they were at people's houses, and non-profit. But those people would have to make huge sacrifices for that.
having said that, I have absolutely nothing against any of the ideas you guys are talking about. It wouldn't be hard to "hook" people in, with all the billions they spend on looking younger.
just tell them stress is the number one cause of aging, and meditation is the easiest, most effective, and cheapest method to reduce stress.
Then in a gutteral, cheesy DJ voice: But WAIT! That's not all! Not only can you add years to your life, you can improve your sex life, AND become happier than you've ever been by connecting with the very energy of God! (insert echo here)
Some type of school atmosphere could be quite valuable though because
most people will not read all of this forum, and they'll have the same questions over and over, even though they have been answered. I know people who will not learn anything unless it is directly from another person. |
Edited by - Etherfish on Feb 15 2006 11:01:39 PM |
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yogani99
USA
153 Posts |
Posted - Feb 16 2006 : 09:48:03 AM
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Hi Etherfish:
I both agree and disagree -- for present and future. It would certainly be difficult to successfully launch such a chain of schools now. But with more reputation (franchise recognition), more awakening in society, an organized curriculum that works and a solid business plan, it can fly. I think it must. Where else can humanity go with all this knowledge? We will never be the same.
Just to emphasize the importance of pressing ever-forward, here is a quote from JFK:
"If not us, then who? If not now, then when?"
We all have much more power to make a better world than we realize. It can only be revealed in our doing.
The guru is in you.
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weaver
832 Posts |
Posted - Feb 16 2006 : 11:19:05 AM
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quote:
It wouldn't be hard to "hook" people in...
I just wanted to comment on this from Etherfish, (not saying that you suggested it!) that I think it would be wrong to present AYP to the world with the intent to attract people to AYP, or trying to "sell" AYP, from only the perspective of some of its effects or "scenery" that may appeal to most people, for example to reduce stress, improve your sex life, gain powers to control your life etc. To do that could be to cheat them into AYP. I think AYP should always be presented with the ultimate goal clearly stated, and from the perspective of its real purpose, which could be expressed different ways, for example spiritual self-transformation, to become a channel of outpouring divine love, to become one with God or the SELF. Otherwise, at a certain point, when the processes of purification take over and "own you", and there is no turning back(?), they could feel cheated into something they didn't intend or want. (Well, maybe the last point could be argued that even if you start AYP from the purpose of parts of the "scenery", you will gradually change to seek the real goal foremost, but is this always true?) |
Edited by - weaver on Feb 16 2006 11:22:59 AM |
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NagoyaSea
424 Posts |
Posted - Feb 16 2006 : 11:58:48 AM
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This was such an exciting topic that it kept creeping into my morning meditation.
I hope I don’t offend anyone by saying this, but we must learn all the lessons we can from the TM group when discussing this topic. It appears they started out with noble purpose and degenerated into something sorrowful. With that said….
The idea of providing places where people can learn AYP practices, especially meditation, fills me with joy. If you have ever meditated in a room with several people meditating together then you understand how profoundly moving and powerful the experience is. The peace and joy are palpable. It is as if the very vibrations of the room change.
The idea of providing places where practitioners gather to learn, to share, to meditate, to socialize, takes AYP to a new level and provides another avenue to extend the practice to so many more.
Whether or not to franchise, whether or not to have dedicated centers run in a business manner is a topic to debate. It is a very expensive proposition. There are the setup costs. And trying to provide a family income from such a center in southern California would be very difficult indeed after business expenses are met. The same goes anywhere else the cost of living is very high. To provide the income to run a dedicated center may require steep tuition charges for students, which defeats the purpose of trying to pull as many people into AYP as possible. But there are so many ideas to explore along these lines.
For example, consider the use of association club houses or community centers or schools (after hours) to provide an avenue for AYP meditation lessons. However, a dedicated place where AYP practitioners could socialize and learn sounds better, rather than set hours at a community center.
Alternatively, consider a ‘grass roots’ effort, where AYP members used their own homes as AYP centers. Flyers could be posted in places where people meet (churches, community centers, universities, junior colleges, etc) to inform people when meetings would be occurring and where.
The goal must also be clear. Is it to spread basic AYP meditation and get as many people meditating as possible? Is it that and advanced practices? Does it include the teaching of asanas? (I’m thinking additional liability insurance needed here…)
Just some initial rambling thoughts on an exciting topic.
In all love,
Kathy
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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - Feb 16 2006 : 1:26:30 PM
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No matter what happens it should probably happen in a relaxed, organic and enjoyable way. What Kathy says makes sense to me for something that could happen immediately if people wished it.
Kathy said:
Alternatively, consider a ‘grass roots’ effort, where AYP members used their own homes as AYP centers. Flyers could be posted in places where people meet (churches, community centers, universities, junior colleges, etc) to inform people when meetings would be occurring and where
This is something I had in mind myself because I am very familiar with the power of meditating in a group - of course this would probably add another dimension to self pacing, because of the added purifying effect.
Where I am nobody else I know has heard of AYP so the ground is fresh and virginal. There are a few people interested and initially people are receptive to meeting once a month, just to get together and, if nothing else to socialise - of course this is pre-requisite for anything that happens in Ireland.
If it comes off I will let you know how it goes, but nothing is going to happen overnight.
Those business cards are a great idea, it makes it very easy to just hand one to a friend as an introduction.
S |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Feb 16 2006 : 3:38:52 PM
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Weaver said:
"I just wanted to comment on this from Etherfish, (not saying that you suggested it!) that I think it would be wrong to present AYP to the world with the intent to attract people to AYP, or trying to "sell" AYP, from only the perspective of some of its effects or "scenery" that may appeal to most people, for example to reduce stress, improve your sex life"
I don't see what's wrong with this. Most people will never figure out that God is what they really want. So if you had several commercials, starting with several "hooks", one to reduce stress, one to improve sex life, etc. and every one of them would end describing the true purpose of AYP, it would be honest, but giving them what they THINK they want.
So you are honestly selling them what they are asking for, and much better than the drugs or creams they already spend for. Then as a big bonus you show them what they really want.
Personally I don't like meditating in a group. I may not have experienced it fully yet, but I tried it once and didn't like it. i couldn't go as "deep" as I do by myself. I did like the people though.
nagoyasea said:
"Whether or not to franchise, whether or not to have dedicated centers run in a business manner is a topic to debate. It is a very expensive proposition. There are the setup costs. And trying to provide a family income from such a center in southern California would be very difficult indeed after business expenses are met. The same goes anywhere else the cost of living is very high. To provide the income to run a dedicated center may require steep tuition charges for student"
This is the same environment I live in, here in Denver, Colorado. The best way to run something like this would be on a non-profit basis. The person who owns a non-profit can earn an income from it as long as the business doesn't make a profit. That's how churches are run. I don't know if you can do that as a franchise or not. If not, there are probably other legal words you could use that would accomplish the same thing.
I visited a zen center in Seattle Washington that was used as primarily a meditation center. It was non-profit, and jointly owned by two different zen groups that had different philosophies. It was built out of a house where members had donated labor and materials to remodel it. of course zoning laws had to be checked. They both share in making payments on the house, and they each use it half the time by splitting the schedule.
One person's name is primarily on the loan documents, and they have legal agreements with the others. There is one main room with a shiny wood floor and entirely surrounded by black zabuton cushions with a black zafu cushion on top. The room is usually dark, but with sconce lights around the walls on a dimmer. Each member brings whatever else they need if they don't like what's there. Each member pays $15 a month but they are free to bring a friend for free.
I imagine someone had to come up with a down payment and someone has to take responsibility for the maintenance and bills. i know another non-profit that has maintenance taken care of by members who are short of money.
It might be possible to build AYP centers in areas like ours like this. All it takes is one person with the $20,000 down payment. And some kind of agreement that $1 per member per month or whatever would be sent to Yogani.
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Edited by - Etherfish on Feb 16 2006 6:27:46 PM |
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trip1
USA
739 Posts |
Posted - Feb 16 2006 : 5:15:04 PM
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| I'd think this would be the next logical step for AYP. How far off it is, who knows, but you can count me in when it happens. :) |
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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - Feb 17 2006 : 07:47:08 AM
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You have a good point Etherfish about the zen centre example. A group of us in Ireland have been involved in zen practice through the teachings of Thich Nhat Hanh and we are only now begining to get organised.
The place we practice on a weekly basis is a nice room in a Complimentary Health Centre. The person who runs it also practices with us and provides the room free of charge. We each give an optional donation of €5 per evening. This soon mounts up when there are no expenses and everything is voluntary.
At present I am trying to put a website together as an umbrella site for all the groups ( Sanghas) in Ireland. With this in place we hope to get more organised and tempt Thich Nhat Hanh himself to give a retreat here.
Other groups or Sanghas meet in houses or rent a room. There are so many holistic centres in Ireland where one can rent a space conducive to meditation that it would not be necessary to have one's own premises. I don't know how this applies to the US and other places.
Having said this, the central core of the practice recommended by Thich Nhat Hanh is based around the Sangha or group practice, which is different than AYP.
Personaly I like the the core of the practice to be in the daily practice, as recommended by AYP.
It emphasises the importance of the daily routine and so people are not depending on the weekly fix (as they might in traditional church going for instance).
It also takes the reponsibility directly to the individual, not only for the practice but also for their own self pacing. In group situations I have found that people are inclined to hand over their power and sense of repsonsibility to the teacher or leader of the group.
Having said that, it is difficult to see AYP growing beyond a certain stage without local groups involved and AYP teachers to spread the practice. Yogani can only spread himself so far.
Louis
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Feb 17 2006 : 08:39:38 AM
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louis, very good input. i like Thich nhat hanh and use to read his books.
I was a little turned off once when I saw a movie of him walking in the
sun with a follower keeping step with him shading Hanh's head with a big feather.
But I passed it off; it may not have been his idea, or maybe he has lupus or something.
he's a very good writer.
Very good idea about renting rooms in existing facilities. I didn't think of that.
i'm sure we could do that here- There are churches, community centers, etc.
You said they charge "€5" per evening. What is the name of that symbol before the 5 so
I can have it converted to american dollars?
Thanks,
Etherfish |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Feb 17 2006 : 10:44:00 AM
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Yes, people in non-profits can make a living. They are not prevented from making a good living either; the finance officers of non-profits are often well paid, for example.
I don't know about how non-profits can work in a franchise setting. My guess is that they can. I don't see anything wrong with a non-profit paying reasonable royalties to Yogani either. In fact, I see something right about it.
One important aspect of the non-profit thing is that there are tax advantages. This may be helpful because expenses may be hard enough to meet already without additional taxes.
Kathy said:
I hope I don’t offend anyone by saying this, but we must learn all the lessons we can from the TM group when discussing this topic. It appears they started out with noble purpose and degenerated into something sorrowful. With that said….
If we keep the following three, I don't think we'll go their way:
(i) keeping a non-inflated view of ourselves
(ii) maintaining openness
(iii) maintaining honesty
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Edited by - david_obsidian on Feb 17 2006 10:50:55 AM |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Feb 17 2006 : 10:56:48 AM
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She might also have been referring to it being way too expensive. i think the answer to that is to keep Yogani's end of the business lean and mean, without too many people or expenses in the main office. Then we can adjust to all the overhead at branch centers according to local problems.
Yes, tax advantages are the main reason for going non-profit. Most of the churches you see wouldn't be there if they had to pay property and income taxes. |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Feb 17 2006 : 12:10:22 PM
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Unfortunately, its being way too expensive was part of what made it successful economically. They used deception to justify the high fees.
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Feb 17 2006 : 2:19:32 PM
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There were two replies by Sparkle and David about Thich Nhat Hanh here which I have moved to here, starting a subject about him:
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....TOPIC_ID=837
Also, Sparkle answered my question about money conversion:
"The symbol you referred to is the Euro €, you probably don't have it on your computers. 1 euro is worth about 1.2 US dollars at present."
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Edited by - Etherfish on Feb 17 2006 2:22:00 PM |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Feb 17 2006 : 6:13:44 PM
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Some thoughts:
1. lots and lots of people are studying asana right now. Most are superficial, most will stay superficial, and most will not search for anything deeper. But a certain percentage will, and that percentage has nowhere to go.
2. if Yogani and others are right, and we're reaching a point of critical mass in all this, there'll be increasing numbers of people (asana students or not) who will search for guidance. But they have nowhere to go.
There's biz opportunity there. But it's extraordinarily premature to envisualize franchised AYP Huts nationwide (bring your karma on your way to work, we'll have it cleaned and pressed for you by 5pm). AYP's not quite at that point, enlightenment's not quite at that point, and the pool of potentially interested parties just isn't quite together yet. And the franchise model and all the organization involved is not something likely to ever happen, unless it turns out that, like, Etherfish is a titan of industry and none of us ever realized.
But!
One way to address the need in a way that will be much lower to the ground would be to offer this to yoga teachers. First, so they can deepen up a bit themeselves. And then they can use their existing lines of teacher/student communication to point students to this teaching.
I'd suggest that's a doable model. There are a lot of yoga teachers out there, and they themselves are the ardent students most likely to be looking deeper.
If we want to make it a financial thing, then there could be a system of accrediting teachers (again, starting off with the current pool of yoga teachers). That's a lot of work, too, but not as ambitious as the routes described above. |
Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Feb 17 2006 6:16:23 PM |
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yogani99
USA
153 Posts |
Posted - Feb 18 2006 : 12:07:32 AM
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Hi All:
I've been reading along here, and wow what a lot of great insights and suggestions.
We all know that there will be a market for self-directed integrated practices for a long time to come. What we don't know is how fast it will grow or how big it will get. I think assuming it will continue to be a growth market (and possibly big) is a safe bet. We also know that no one is servicing it very well right now -- speaking of everything else besides asanas, as Jim points out.
Maybe this market has not even been defined until we came along with self-directed integrated practices, and it, like AYP, is still forming. It has been in 1000 tiny pieces until now. Are we the market here in AYP, and determining its growth? If so, we may be sitting on something far bigger than we can imagine, particularly if society is in the process of making a major shift in this direction. How to play it?
I think it is a matter of timing our actions so as not to get too far ahead of ourselves, while at the same time having a blueprint for addressing demand as it emerges. Setting up $50,000 AYP franchises willy-nilly now, or any time soon, would be sure to fail. But five years from now, who knows? Maybe even renting space for gatherings right now is premature. Living rooms are the best place for the grassroots to take root, I think, and then see where it goes from there. It is a lot easier to expand to meet growing demand than to retreat from insufficient demand. Much easier on the pocket book too.
Getting the yoga teachers involved is a great idea. I guess there are several ways to do that. Maybe they can be our guinea pigs, since they already have studios and students. They can find out in a hurry how many of those folks on the mats are looking for more. Would we lose control by going that route? I don't think so. AYP owns the books.
For me it is all about the books right now -- both writing them to address the mainstream, and selling them. It is also about completing the material for advanced practitioners. Books -- maybe 10 more over the next few of years. After that, we’ll see what is happening.
Groups can use the books. Yoga teachers can use the books. Word of mouth can use them. Everyone that is involved in the expansion of AYP will need the books. And that is good for both the practitioners and funding the growth of AYP from here. At this early stage, donations are still accepted too. It is all still on a shoestring here.
Obviously, for expanding the knowledge horizontally, it isn't only about distributing the AYP books. It is about teachers gaining the necessary experience to teach the AYP knowledge. I'm not sure how to do that. Certifications? Not sure. That part I know little about, so someone with experience in that would be needed. I'm willing. I just don't know anything about running training and certification programs.
As the market begins to take shape, and I expect it will in the coming years (we seem to be creating it as we go), then it will become clearer how far we can go with this. If it looks like a huge growth market coming up, then we should have a plan for expanding to meet the demand as far as it can go. This isn't really about me. It is about creating something that will have international reach and be able to carry the knowledge of self-directed integrated practices forward and far into the future. It is also about creating something that meets the demand in an attractive economic way, and provides a living and long term economic security for those who are doing the work. We should not repeat the mistakes made by others in the past.
A normal business model has not been a good match-up for spiritual teachers in the past (good economic supply to the market with reasonable compensation for providers), but do we know that it cannot be achieved in the future? We do not know. Just because others have failed in the past, this does not mean it cannot be done. This is spiritual, but it is also business. And we may be sitting on top of one of the biggest business opportunities of the 21st century. If we do not address it, you can be sure others eventually will. Right now, who is in a better position to do it than us?
I know nothing about non-profit organizations, but do know something about business, having spent 30 years in it and having the degrees as well. I'm certified in business, but not in yoga!
I'm sure much can be done with a non-profit structure. But I have no experience with that. If we go that route, experts will be needed. I do know that a lot can be done with a for-profit business structure also -- the possibility for shared ownership among the participants and long term continuity being a couple of the most important things from my point of view.
Whichever way it goes, there will be the need for business plans, curriculums, finance, facilities, marketing, administration, all that stuff. I am not the world's greatest manager of people, so we would need to find expert managers too.
But not all for today…
I am only projecting some general ideas, just in case we are sitting on the equivalent of what the PC revolution was in 1980. At that time, a man with a vision came along and said, "There will be a PC on every desk." And 25 years later we all know that he was right.
Well, there is a man here with a vision too -- "There will be self-directed integrated practices in every home." It is a shared vision among many of us. Will we be right 25 years from now? Time will tell.
I hope the brain-storming will continue, and that it will translate into action.
It is an honor to be here among so many wise souls...
The guru is in you.
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yogani99
USA
153 Posts |
Posted - Feb 18 2006 : 10:20:22 AM
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Hi again All:
There is also the simpler leveraged "software only" approach which is the early growth model of Gates/Mircosoft. They got the contract to provide the operating system for IBM's new PC in the early 1980s, and the rest is history. Before that, they were just another struggling little software company.
So the question is, who is the IBM of the yoga business, the one who has the ability to quickly take it to the next level? It is Iyengar, isn't it?
How difficult would it be to obtain "the contract" for taking Iyengar yoga decisively beyond asanas? It seems the places where he has gotten stuck (deep meditation, spinal breathing, kundalini, etc.) are the same places where we have broken through. Is there a way for AYP to get together with Iyengar? They have the reputation, teachers, facilities, etc. We have the software. A good marriage?
Barring a big break like that, we will no doubt keep plugging along as per my note above, developing this market by ourselves if we have too. But it sure would be nice if we could find a big springboard to take everyone to the next level overnight.
See what you started with your Gates quote, Guy? Not bad...
The guru is in you.
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Feb 18 2006 : 2:29:17 PM
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I agree but it would have to come from Iyengar himself, whom I have heard is old school; a stern unyielding teacher; "i know the right way, and sometimes you have to force the student into it, then they will see the light." Of course he's so good that approach works, and abused students yield and rave about the benefits.
so you'd need some kind of high powered salesman who understood yoga or Iyengar to do that.
Or maybe a young disgruntled former Iyengar student/ teacher?
Somebody would need to study the Iyengar business and determine what rights he has. After all, the asanas are public domain I assume, it's only his approach that isn't.
And maybe there is another approach that is just as valid that would be easier to marry AYP with,
a younger business that is in the fledgling stage also, but maybe has some following across the country.
i know Bob Cooley's meridian resistance stretching system for instance has a huge following of paying people in Palo Alto, California, and it's spreading. He teaches that resistance stretching has lasting physiological and psychological benefits, and certifies other people to teach it elsewhere. It has roots in Yoga and Traditional Chinese Medicine, but has a feel of being much easier, profound and lasting effects.
i'm sure there are others too. |
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cosmic_troll
USA
229 Posts |
Posted - Feb 18 2006 : 5:52:08 PM
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Etherfish, what you said about Iyengar being old-school is probably accurate (based on the few books of his I've read). Who knows, he may be open to AYP if he saw the kind of results people are getting from it.
That being said, Rodney Yee is also popular in the asana industry... he seems more "Hollywood" than Iyengar, and his books are abundantly on shelves. I don't know how much/little he focuses on meditation, though.
I like the idea of introducing AYP to already existing asana schools. Maybe a free book for teachers and a wholesale discount, so they can sell the books to their students, could help. I do like the non-structured, self-study approach of AYP, which is probably better suited for study groups than a formal class... |
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Guy_51
USA
170 Posts |
Posted - Feb 18 2006 : 6:17:43 PM
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Hi all:
Personally,I feel we are all getting a little ahead of ourselves. Remember slow and steady wins the race. To me the thought of "getting into bed " with any other school would be a mistake.
Don't forget we hold the trump card in that we have a great great thing right now with AYP and Yogani's
leadership, not too mention the most effective path to enlightenment.
Let's be patient and let Yogani keep writing and all of
us keep meditating.
FWIW
Guy
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star
12 Posts |
Posted - Feb 19 2006 : 1:11:32 PM
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To start supporting the book writing process of Yogani, why don’t all us start with donating 10% of our income each month. This process has worked very well for the Mormons, the fellowship etc. This way there will be no added stress and responsibility for Yogani.
My experience is that groups becomes churches then egos gets involve and then the real work gets lost and diluted down.
Just an idea for whatever it is worth
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taking responsibility for AYP
