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brother neil
USA
752 Posts |
 Posted - Jun 11 2010 : 9:43:51 PM
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this has been something I have been pondering a bit. Some people say, thoughts are things and that they create your reality, but what about when you see that they dont? For example, you have something you are going to do in the future, and you project these thoughts onto how you will feel and how it will turn out, but then it does not turn out in the way you imagined. so it would seem thoughts did not create the reality of that situation. in my life there have been a billion times when I thought of something that may happen but it did not happen that way. Oftentimes my projection on the future was a waste of time. It is one thing to make plans about what we are going to do in the future, but only in the moment will it be as it is.
your experiences on this?
thanks
brother Neil
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Jun 12 2010 : 04:31:06 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by brother neil
this has been something I have been pondering a bit. Some people say, thoughts are things and that they create your reality, but what about when you see that they dont? For example, you have something you are going to do in the future, and you project these thoughts onto how you will feel and how it will turn out, but then it does not turn out in the way you imagined. so it would seem thoughts did not create the reality of that situation. in my life there have been a billion times when I thought of something that may happen but it did not happen that way. Oftentimes my projection on the future was a waste of time. It is one thing to make plans about what we are going to do in the future, but only in the moment will it be as it is.
your experiences on this?
thanks
brother Neil
 That old chestnut. Often have this discussion with people who have read too many self development books.
Well in many ways you are predicting the future all the time, your heart beats, the sun comes up each morning and the postman puts bills through your door at regular intervals.
You cannot predict any of these things with 100% accuracy but you see then happen and that produces certainty because they happened many times in your memory.
Now, you cannot predict a lottery win, because you have never regularly had a memory of a lottery win. All you can know is that someone, somewhere will win the lottery provided something even more surprising doesn't come along to ruin the day like a bloody big asteroid.
So, you see, you do create your future. You know that certain things will happen, even if not directly to you and you know also that there is also a chance of some unplanned event and therefore your future contain unplanned events...... because you planned it like that
The only thing you can influence is the way you feel at the moment.Internal not external.
I
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wakeupneo
USA
171 Posts |
Posted - Jun 12 2010 : 09:45:56 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by brother neil
this has been something I have been pondering a bit. Some people say, thoughts are things and that they create your reality, but what about when you see that they dont? For example, you have something you are going to do in the future, and you project these thoughts onto how you will feel and how it will turn out, but then it does not turn out in the way you imagined. so it would seem thoughts did not create the reality of that situation. in my life there have been a billion times when I thought of something that may happen but it did not happen that way. Oftentimes my projection on the future was a waste of time. It is one thing to make plans about what we are going to do in the future, but only in the moment will it be as it is.
your experiences on this?
thanks
brother Neil
My experience is that the subconscious is not alligned with the conscious mind. The subconscious is a vast storehouse of the collective past, the collective mind, samkaras, tendencies, beliefs, conditionings, trauma that we are not even aware of. This is expontentially greater than what is available on the level of the conscious mind. When the unconscious mind is not alligned with conscious mind this will jeopardize how pseudo-reality is manifested. There are unconscious agendas in everything we do... we are not aware of these agendas, hence the unconscious.
It seems as one purifies these deeper levels of the psyche manifestation becomes more fluid and more real as the unconscious and conscious start operating as one unit.
For years I consciously believed that I was doing mediation to eliminate the ego and embody my true self. Unconsciously it has been revealed lately that it was a big part of my ego structure ;) the paradox is that it was revealed via the act of meditation.
If you feel you want to get right to the source then really examine...
Who wants to know the answers to these questions?
j
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Edited by - wakeupneo on Jun 12 2010 10:21:03 AM |
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brother neil
USA
752 Posts |
Posted - Jun 12 2010 : 10:23:12 AM
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Thanks Neo and Karl
Neo, thats funny what you said about meditation being part of your ego structure and understanding that was revealed in meditation |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Jun 12 2010 : 11:01:08 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by brother neil
Thanks Neo and Karl
Neo, thats funny what you said about meditation being part of your ego structure and understanding that was revealed in meditation
Yes, the thought 'I am meditating' in order to stop meditating Contradiction and Paradox living happily together.
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tonightsthenight
846 Posts |
Posted - Jun 12 2010 : 3:31:08 PM
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| i suppose it depends on one's purity |
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wav3
USA
4 Posts |
Posted - Jun 12 2010 : 10:54:58 PM
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| Are we talking about altering the future? Most religious energy seems focused on petitioning a higher power for good fortune (e.g., The more faith you have, the better your luck. If you don't have good luck, then your faith is lacking.) |
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brother neil
USA
752 Posts |
Posted - Jun 12 2010 : 11:41:04 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by wav3
Are we talking about altering the future? Most religious energy seems focused on petitioning a higher power for good fortune (e.g., The more faith you have, the better your luck. If you don't have good luck, then your faith is lacking.)
No, not really talking about altering the future, more like, if Im saying in my head "when i talk to this person, im gonna say this, this, and this" and then when talking to them the conversation was nothing as "planned" another example, when I got minor surgery and was walking on crutches, how many times did I think i might slip or fall, how much did I worry about that, think about that, project that, and when its all said and done, no slips, no falls. The thoughts and worries did not create the physical events, for if they did I would have fallen 1000 times. |
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wav3
USA
4 Posts |
Posted - Jun 13 2010 : 04:28:33 AM
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Brother N.,
Hilarious.  I would have to admit that I believe in some, albeit probably small, connection between what goes on in our heads and what happens to us. But what do I know? Not much. I don't have continual and unfettered access to the astral realms. (Probably a good thing for all concerned.)
And what about witches and warlocks: beginning their work with intent under the dark of the moon, storing their sexual energies, 30 days later, naked, dancing around a fire under the full moon, putting their heads together and launching their spell in a fit of ecstasy? I realize that their spells rarely turn out exactly as expected, but they devote much of their energies and spare time toward the altering of events. Are these people completely deluded? Is all their trouble for naught? |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Jun 13 2010 : 05:48:14 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by brother neil
quote:
Originally posted by wav3
Are we talking about altering the future? Most religious energy seems focused on petitioning a higher power for good fortune (e.g., The more faith you have, the better your luck. If you don't have good luck, then your faith is lacking.)
No, not really talking about altering the future, more like, if Im saying in my head "when i talk to this person, im gonna say this, this, and this" and then when talking to them the conversation was nothing as "planned" another example, when I got minor surgery and was walking on crutches, how many times did I think i might slip or fall, how much did I worry about that, think about that, project that, and when its all said and done, no slips, no falls. The thoughts and worries did not create the physical events, for if they did I would have fallen 1000 times.
"Many a slip between cup and lip" as they say. Mostly possibilities. It gets a bit mixed because on one level you can seem to be altering your future and on another you are just happier about how the future turned out.
You can work with visualisation to get an outcome. However there is nothing that says that the outcome wouldn't have occurred anyway. It feels that you are in control of your future and therefore you are happier.
I work with people at this level, coaching them to success. I don't really know if it is true, but it doesn't really matter. It's just a game anyway. If someone wants to achieve better results in their business and I work with them and they succeed, then they simply become someone who makes more money, it's not exactly a miracle.
Was it all ready in their future to meet me and have that change occur. Neither of us did anything really from that viewpoint. However you can see that a change did occur on another level and that is how both of us now think. I think that I have helped someone to achieve and so I believe more firmly that I can do a thing and so does the other person.
Between where you think you are now and where you think you want to be are infinite possibilities that are governed by probability. The result of wanting to say a certain something to someone might not go exactly to plan but the outcome might be the same. It's a bit like sailing a ship, you know that there is a good chance you will end up at the place you saw on the holiday brochures but waves, tides, wind and unforeseen things may delay, push the boat off course or even prevent the trip entirely. However the trip turns out, even if you don't manage to arrive the first time then the likelyhood is you will try again and succeed. It's in the trying and the failing, the coping with events that we grow and learn and thinking changes. |
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amoux
United Kingdom
266 Posts |
Posted - Jun 13 2010 : 05:50:11 AM
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I used to be quite enamoured of this idea that 'thoughts become things', as the theory runs. However, once examined, it became clear to me that this wasn't the case. What happens is that we set out minds on something, wanting it to happen, then - because of how the brain works - we are swept into confirmation bias. In other words, we look for evidence to prove that we've achieved - or are on our way to achieving - our desired outcome. Straws in the wind become 'evidence' that we are on the right track - that our outcome is within our control  So the spell-casters are deluded, yes - but confirmation bias will not allow them to peceive this. Also, disconfirmation bias is another mind programme that we can run, of course. If we don't believe something is possible, then we will 'filter out' any evidence to the contrary.
My feeling is that unexamined thoughts - beliefs which we are almost unaware that we hold, can and do affect our experience of our life, but the idea that any thought has creative power simply doesn't hold up - to me, at any rate. Thoughts are just thoughts - mind chatter - and totally unreal. |
Edited by - amoux on Jun 13 2010 08:07:55 AM |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Jun 13 2010 : 12:11:41 PM
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Agree totally with that Amoux.
This is why being in the moment and satisfied is important. Regardless of if we can, or can't create things out of thoughts, it's recognising that all is just thoughts anyway and we can only choose how we feel in that moment.
I am more aware of guys around the same age as I am, who are looking for something. Call it mid life crisis or whatever. They seek something though they do not know exactly what that 'something' is.
I watch and listen to them trying to find meaning in their life through taking up hobbies and interests. They look externally for something to fill a hole and I can see the frustation mounting as the hour glass begins to run down. With some I offer the hint that they should be looking inside not outside. Some get it, others choose not to. |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jun 13 2010 : 12:37:11 PM
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Yes your thoughts create your reality. But it is not as simple as thinking of something and making it happen.
It is habitual thoughts that create your reality, but usually not the exact thing you were thinking. Thoughts attract similar things. They cause a magnet-like pull, but the exact outcome is tempered by your karma, the karma of others, logistics, and your subconscious mind.
For instance if you habitually think "I am not poor" it actually reinforces you being poor because your subconscious doesn't understand "not". And if you constantly think "I am rich" but you are full of beliefs that you are poor, nothing will change.
But the KIND of thoughts you habitually have will influence the kind of reality you experience.
If your thoughts are filled with fear every day, fearful things will happen. But usually not exactly what you were thinking. If you think thoughts of violence, you will encounter violence.
I have known people who said you have to carry a loaded gun with you at all times because you WILL need it. And they were proven to be right, over and over.
I don't carry a gun because I believe there are better ways to solve problems without guns, even though it can be more difficult. And that has proven to be right for me.
So that is why it is so important to have habitual thoughts of peace. Meditation helps with that. |
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brother neil
USA
752 Posts |
Posted - Jun 17 2010 : 10:05:12 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Etherfish
For instance if you habitually think "I am not poor" it actually reinforces you being poor because your subconscious doesn't understand "not".
I don't carry a gun because I believe there are better ways to solve problems without guns, even though it can be more difficult.
so does the subconscious understand don't, in that case does your subconscious believe that you actually do carry a gun? |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Jun 17 2010 : 1:30:21 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by brother neil
quote:
Originally posted by Etherfish
For instance if you habitually think "I am not poor" it actually reinforces you being poor because your subconscious doesn't understand "not".
I don't carry a gun because I believe there are better ways to solve problems without guns, even though it can be more difficult.
It's always reported like that, the reality is the unconscious mind has to think of the 'with the gun' person before thinking of not having a gun.
It's useful when giving a call to action such as "please do not hesitate to contact me". Examining that statement somewhere in the unconscious will reveal that reading that statement equates with someone who doesn't really want to be contacted, so it's better to say "please contact me if you need any other information"
Try it with kids. Tell them to make sure they 'don't' drop the plate, spill the juice and it's very often that the reaction is the opposite to the one expected. In fact you might notice that even thinking the thought seems to result in cracked plates and spilled juice.
so does the subconscious understand don't, in that case does your subconscious believe that you actually do carry a gun?
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brother neil
USA
752 Posts |
Posted - Jun 17 2010 : 2:38:16 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by karl
quote:
Originally posted by brother neil
quote:
Originally posted by Etherfish
It's always reported like that, the reality is the unconscious mind has to think of the 'with the gun' person before thinking of not having a gun.
It's useful when giving a call to action such as "please do not hesitate to contact me". Examining that statement somewhere in the unconscious will reveal that reading that statement equates with someone who doesn't really want to be contacted, so it's better to say "please contact me if you need any other information"
Try it with kids. Tell them to make sure they 'don't' drop the plate, spill the juice and it's very often that the reaction is the opposite to the one expected. In fact you might notice that even thinking the thought seems to result in cracked plates and spilled juice.
so does the subconscious understand don't, in that case does your subconscious believe that you actually do carry a gun?
sounds like time to experiement with the kids. So now I can go crack plates wiht my mind
yes interesting to think dont means to think about what dont. which does bring that to mind. I dont carry a gun, I understand that, on some kind of level, subconscious, conscious, or what not. In golf I look where I don't want to hit the ball,, like water for example, and over the times ive played more then half of those shots have not hit the water. I guess we could discuss this theory for hours on end, but i dont want to, I hope you dont as well.
brother Neil
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HathaTeacher
Sweden
382 Posts |
Posted - Jun 17 2010 : 2:52:26 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by karl
That old chestnut. Often have this discussion with people who have read too many self development books.
Sounds familiar to me...
Yoga differs from the New Age community, yoga saddhana is performed independent of if it's entertaining or makes you successful or 'accomplishes' anything at all. If you're in pity, an 'achievement' might even indicate you're off track:
'Sometimes when Kundalini gets blocked in a chakra during transit, you begin to exhibit some of the siddhis or psychic powers associated with that chakra.' (...)
'For a few days you may be able to read the thoughts of others, but then that ability will pass away. For a few days you may be able to heal people, but that will also pass. Psychic powers usually only linger when Kundalini gets blocked in a chakra'.
(From Kundalini Tantra by Satyananda)
IMO., visualizations make sense when you're reasonably near your next milestone and already have the necessary abilities to get there. They add a relaxed confidence and guts (virya) to go all the way into the new (balancing posture/inversion/tantric encounter, or a spin-off/start-up company). Until the necessary skills are in place, the time is better spent learning/exercising;
most 'organic' changes in life come from changes in self. The magic of thoughts is that they can kick-start this good circle.
Self-development 'silver bullets' pursue success and good luck in life (nothing wrong with that) whereas yoga & tantra go for happiness, which is a deeper quality and is generated from within, far less dependent on outer circumstances. |
Edited by - HathaTeacher on Jun 17 2010 2:56:50 PM |
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Balance
USA
967 Posts |
Posted - Jun 18 2010 : 10:38:39 PM
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O.K., I'll give this one a go.
Thoughts appear within That which you are, which is reality.
I am is at the root of the primary binding thought, the first enchantment of an illusory separate self, seemingly apart from all that appears as objects mistakenly seen as existing outside of the I am.
A separate but 'false' reality spins off of the I am. So a conceptual 'reality' of separation is created by the enchanting focus of I am, and everything that is related to that illusion of separation. |
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Chiron
Russia
397 Posts |
Posted - Jun 19 2010 : 01:42:05 AM
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quote:
thoughts creating reality?
Thoughts actually obscure reality, as do emotions.
quote:
Originally posted by tonightsthenight
i suppose it depends on one's purity
This one said it all. When the subconscious is pure where thoughts and emotions are no longer getting in the way then your Will can operate freely and manifest as desired. Until then we are limited by our own preconceptions and cannot percieve reality let alone create it. |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Jun 19 2010 : 06:36:08 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Chiron
quote:
thoughts creating reality?
Thoughts actually obscure reality, as do emotions.
quote:
Originally posted by tonightsthenight
i suppose it depends on one's purity
This one said it all. When the subconscious is pure where thoughts and emotions are no longer getting in the way then your Will can operate freely and manifest as desired. Until then we are limited by our own preconceptions and cannot percieve reality let alone create it.
and do you experience that, or is that your understanding ?
My experience is that people are on different levels, they often aspire to be at another level.
A bit like a holiday brochure, where you read the description and take in the pictures. Until you are actually there, you can only describe your intellectual understanding of the holiday destination. Trying to describe the holiday to someone else only results with their intellectual understanding of your experience.
The true understanding only starts to develop when both are at the same destination or have both been there. Sometimes it's philosophy and sometimes it's about experience. It's helpful, I think, to work at the other persons level. |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Jun 19 2010 : 06:45:50 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by brother neil
sounds like time to experiement with the kids. So now I can go crack plates wiht my mind
In golf I look where I don't want to hit the ball,, like water for example, and over the times ive played more then half of those shots have not hit the water. I guess we could discuss this theory for hours on end, but i dont want to, I hope you dont as well.
brother Neil
It's a generality and not an ultimate view in NLP it is called a supposition (something that is a rule but not conclusively true). It works quite happily in reverse 'you don't always get what you want' in the same way as you don't always get what you don't want.
However, if I say "don't think of a blue tree" I'm guessing you imagine one straight away and then try and wipe it from your mind.
You are better off looking where you want to go and not where you don't. This is best shown in Motorcycle accidents where the rider will often say where he was looking at the time of the accident was exactly where he ended up.
If your thought processes don't allow the time to positively obscure the "don't hit that wall/patch of mud/rabbit" then 9/10 you are going to hit it. |
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HathaTeacher
Sweden
382 Posts |
Posted - Jun 19 2010 : 11:37:19 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by karl
You are better off looking where you want to go and not where you don't.
I agree; this is easy to try out while practising a new asana: It's faster and more productive to create a correct image (or rather 'feelage', in your body) and go for it. The don'ts tend to split your focus. Therefore, awareness is a better tool than a lengthy risk analysis, provided you're reasonably prepared.
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Jun 19 2010 : 12:18:09 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by HathaTeacher
quote:
Originally posted by karl
You are better off looking where you want to go and not where you don't.
I agree; this is easy to try out while practising a new asana: It's faster and more productive to create a correct image (or rather 'feelage', in your body) and go for it. The don'ts tend to split your focus. Therefore, awareness is a better tool than a lengthy risk analysis, provided you're reasonably prepared.
 Beautiful. A natural way and instinctive.
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brother neil
USA
752 Posts |
Posted - Jun 20 2010 : 08:48:08 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by brother neil
[sounds like time to experiement with the kids. So now I can go crack plates wiht my mind
yes interesting to think dont means to think about what dont. which does bring that to mind. I dont carry a gun, I understand that, on some kind of level, subconscious, conscious, or what not. In golf I look where I don't want to hit the ball,, like water for example, and over the times ive played more then half of those shots have not hit the water. I guess we could discuss this theory for hours on end, but i dont want to, I hope you dont as well.
brother Neil
As I watch my niece and nephew today, and last night, experimenting defintely does not seem productive but rather redirccting to what would be best for them. This thread has been in mind all night, and thats a good thing. Sometimes I have to pause to find the words to say but thats ok.
thanks
Brother Neil |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Jun 20 2010 : 1:29:02 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by brother neil
quote:
Originally posted by brother neil
[sounds like time to experiement with the kids. So now I can go crack plates wiht my mind
yes interesting to think dont means to think about what dont. which does bring that to mind. I dont carry a gun, I understand that, on some kind of level, subconscious, conscious, or what not. In golf I look where I don't want to hit the ball,, like water for example, and over the times ive played more then half of those shots have not hit the water. I guess we could discuss this theory for hours on end, but i dont want to, I hope you dont as well.
brother Neil
As I watch my niece and nephew today, and last night, experimenting defintely does not seem productive but rather redirccting to what would be best for them. This thread has been in mind all night, and thats a good thing. Sometimes I have to pause to find the words to say but thats ok.
thanks
Brother Neil
Good isn't it. Simple stuff that makes a difference. Words have power, many people never realise just how powerful words can be and spray stuff around without taking the time to construct a positive statement. This is the same for thoughts. We train our bodies and worry about a bit of fat, or some blemish, yet most do not consider spending time educating, training and exercising the mind.
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brother neil
USA
752 Posts |
Posted - Jun 20 2010 : 11:45:02 PM
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Yeah karl, you know every time my little niece was told no by her brother, she cried, every time. When I talked to her I would say, we are gonna put that back up her, and give her something else to play with. That did not always work out well, or work out fast, but she wasnt crying, and many times it did work pretty good. Man, she sure does get into a lot of stuff, but thats part of her job as being a kid i guess.
good night,
Brother Neil |
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thoughts creating reality?
