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Rumighoul
11 Posts |
 Posted - Apr 11 2011 : 6:01:17 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Kirtanman
Hi Rumighoul,
Jed McKenna certainly isn't for everyone, in terms of what people comfortably "resonate" with. However, what we may "resonate" with comfortably, and what may help to facilitate or accelerate awakening are not always the same thing. You may be familiar with "Zen" alarm clocks -- clocks that gently chime bells to awaken one from slumber?
Well, spiritual-teacher-wise, Jed McKenna is the opposite.
He's the klaxon jarring you out of bed while somehow splashing cold water in your face at the same time, just to make sure you get the "WAKE UP!!!" part of the alarm clock's "message". And "WAKE UP!!!" *is* an alarm clock's message - whether that message is delivered gently, or not.
All statements by anyone need to be taken in context, and I'm presuming whoever Jed McKenna actually is, he's not aware of the power of paths like AYP. If someone bases their conclusions on yoga and meditation based simply on observation, the vast majority of people who practice yoga and meditation observably don't wake up, or get any closer to waking up, based on their practice. All religions and spiritual systems, even the most effective ones (not to mention other non-spiritual systems) have this kind of "pyramid" dynamic:
Most people kind of "skit along" the surface, and don't commit enough to gain the benefits. A smaller group in the middle may realize some benefits, but not the full potential the system has to offer. A very small group of the ultra-dedicated and consistent, in any effective spiritual system, realize the full benefit the system can offer -- which, in the case of any effective spiritual system is awakening/liberation.
Since Jed McKenna didn't awaken via a path utilizing yogic practices (he describes his inquiry-based path in his books), and since general observation would lead almost anyone who is awake to draw the same conclusion (that quieting one's mind in sitting meditation is basically useless, considering that most people who do this seem as lost in their daily lives as everyone else) ... I view Jed McKenna's statements on silence and Maya in that light.
Overall, I look at Jed McKenna's books and statements as I do everything, and as I do AYP, per what Yogani has said, over time:
With any system or teaching, take what seems beneficial, if anything, and leave the rest. There's no reason that any system has to be perfect ---- which is good, because none are. There's no reason to toss out the teachings of someone who expresses themselves more directly (like Jed McKenna) because they may not seem as "nice" as our mind is comfortable with -- but there's also no particular reason to spend any time with their teachings if we truly don't feel like they're helpful, either.
All teachings are road signs --- the only thing that matters is whether or not they are pointing us in the right direction.
And, by the way: I love Byron Katie and The Work; her system can be powerfully effective, especially for someone fairly new to spirituality and/or practices -- and well after that point for many, as well. She may seem "nicer" -- but she doesn't pull any punches, either. Both she and Jed McKenna are people who teach truth and liberation *as* truth and liberation -- just with very different styles.
Which is how it always goes.
Ekam sat vipra bahauda vadanti
That Which Is, is One; sages express it in various ways.
~Rig Veda I.164.46
Wholeness Is,
Kirtanman
Hi Kirtanman,
Thanks for your lucid reply. The pyramid dynamic you describe rings very true and yes put in this context JK´s comments hold more water for me. It´s interesting that you mention the power of AYP as an apparent exception to this observable rule about yoga practice- it´s been slow going for me with the DM as someone who seems to have a lot of "blockages", so it´s encouraging to hear it spoken of as powerful (I don´t have experience of any other yoga to compare it to to know if it is particularly effective, I just happened on it and "resonated" with it).
Regarding resonating or not resonating it wasn´t so much a lack of "niceness" in JK that I didn´t gel with - I´ve grooved with quite a few philosophers and writers who can come on strong and who don´t spare the rod as it were (Crowley, Robert Anton Wilson, Nietzsche, even Byron Katie who as you say doesn´t pull punches), it was more the apparently quite pessimistic cosmological vision he paints in those Youtube videos - as I said the infinite black cloud and infinite solitariness and emptiness etc with no balancing lightness or joy. Kind of like Nietzsche but without the yea-saying cheerfulness ...hence somewhat depressing to me.
But that´s just me, it´s probably not what I need right now. As someone who has struggled with sadness and depression I obviously get more just now from philosophies and practices that point toward lightness and joy, like Byron Katie and AYP. So why did I focus on it so much that I posted about it? A bad habit I think, prodding things that bother me instead of putting them in perspective as you did in your reply. But also I was genuinely curious about your response, which was engaging.
So thanks, Rumighoul.
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Edited by - Rumighoul on Apr 11 2011 6:58:49 PM |
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - Apr 12 2011 : 6:15:30 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Rumighoul
Hi Kirtanman,
Thanks for your lucid reply. The pyramid dynamic you describe rings very true and yes put in this context JK´s comments hold more water for me. It´s interesting that you mention the power of AYP as an apparent exception to this observable rule about yoga practice- it´s been slow going for me with the DM as someone who seems to have a lot of "blockages", so it´s encouraging to hear it spoken of as powerful (I don´t have experience of any other yoga to compare it to to know if it is particularly effective, I just happened on it and "resonated" with it).
Hi Rumighoul,
A few of us here have found AYP to offer the full range of benefits that available via any of the world's effective spiritual systems. All effective systems work - and per the pyramid analogy, they work for those whose dedication is utter. Only those who stop observing and practicing fail to realize liberation -- ultimately, we can't miss liberation; it's what we are.
quote:
Regarding resonating or not resonating it wasn´t so much a lack of "niceness" in JK that I didn´t gel with - I´ve grooved with quite a few philosophers and writers who can come on strong and who don´t spare the rod as it were (Crowley, Robert Anton Wilson, Nietzsche, even Byron Katie who as you say doesn´t pull punches), it was more the apparently quite pessimistic cosmological vision he paints in those Youtube videos - as I said the infinite black cloud and infinite solitariness and emptiness etc with no balancing lightness or joy. Kind of like Nietzsche but without the yea-saying cheerfulness...hence somewhat depressing to me.
Got it. I understand that. The thing that might be helpful to notice is: Jed does that on purpose. It got your attention, didn't it?
How can someone who can distill some of the most hard-to-grasp truths down to their very essence:
"Enlightenment is the unprogrammed state."
"One millionth of one percent false is completely false."
.. and so on ..... someone who clearly speaks from awareness of the wholeness of reality .... come out with statements like:
"I'm not telling you the black cloud is okay; I'm telling you it's infinitely big and infinitely black."
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Sounds pessimistic or negative right? Of course it does; it is pessimistic and negative to limited mind -- that exact misused sense-of-things which must be released, in order to enjoy liberation. When we listen to teachings like Jed's, or Nisargadatta's, or Ramana's, or Adyashanti's or Yogani's -- they are all an invitation to discard the unreal in favor of the real.
I'm guessing you haven't read Jed's books? Per some of the comment in this thread, you may want to; they're quite good -- and they present an interesting dichotomy:
Jed McKenna isn't the tiniest bit pessimistic. He's free, he's good humored, and he offers very helpful insight to people.
When we find, in experience, that the infinite cloud is indeed infinitely big and infinitely black, we also find that it's not a cloud at all; it's our own true nature, living, unbound. It only seems daunting and pessimistic from the perspective of limitation.
And, per that, it is yet another invitation to simply investigate what is true and real, via observation, and not via our conditioned thinking, which tends to evaluate teachings before seeing where they're pointing.
And one of the most powerful supports to opening to our own true nature via practices and observation, in my experience is AYP - and so, I would encourage you:
Just keep practicing daily.
Those of us who have gotten the full benefits of AYP have practiced for a minimum of a few years -- and we've all gone through phases of feeling like not much was happening, often followed by "big deal" experiences and changes --- often followed by phases of feeling like not much was happening.
The "moral of the story" is:
Just keep practicing daily.
I don't think I've ever heard anyone say that doing so hasn't been worth it.
And, for some of us, it's been worth everything.
quote:
But that´s just me, it´s probably not what I need right now. As someone who has struggled with sadness and depression I obviously get more just now from philosophies and practices that point toward lightness and joy, like Byron Katie and AYP. So why did I focus on it so much that I posted about it? A bad habit I think, prodding things that bother me instead of putting them in perspective as you did in your reply. But also I was genuinely curious about your response, which was engaging.
So thanks, Rumighoul.
You're very welcome, Rumighoul -- and it's all quite perfect.
And all genuine spiritual teachings are simply an invitation to notice this.
Wholeness Is,
Kirtanman
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nodoubt
India
90 Posts |
Posted - Apr 12 2011 : 7:27:56 PM
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| I've read Jed's books. He teaches people life is meaningless. I guess his meaning is that you make your own meaning. Or it's strictly meaningless. Either way this falls short of the glorious intent of life. |
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Clear White Light
USA
229 Posts |
Posted - Apr 15 2011 : 1:17:42 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by nodoubt
I've read Jed's books. He teaches people life is meaningless. I guess his meaning is that you make your own meaning. Or it's strictly meaningless. Either way this falls short of the glorious intent of life.
What is the intent of life? |
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woosa
United Kingdom
382 Posts |
Posted - Apr 15 2011 : 2:49:48 PM
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Originally posted by Clear White Lightquote:
What is the intent of life?
To make loads of money, live in a big house, own 3 cars and bitch about what your neighbours have/ haven't got. |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Apr 15 2011 : 3:45:22 PM
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The intent of life is to multiply to create the illusion of multiple consciousnesses, learn to coexist peacefully, then become enlightened to give up that illusion.
The obvious question is: "Why do that if we end up where we started?", and the answer is we don't end up where we started. Travelling that circle enriches everyone greatly. |
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nodoubt
India
90 Posts |
Posted - Apr 15 2011 : 7:04:42 PM
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| Take yourself for example. A body permeated by consciousness. A seeming isolation, but on the tip of your tongue you see, you can't quite place it, a unity. Reems of studies, education, clear-headed seeing of the world around you, relationships by the piles, nope not there. Contacting inner teachings, looking within, a refreshed sense of wholeness. Connecting with the devout spiritual friends who celebrate complete togetherness. Pouring over with love. Sharing your life energy to enliven everyone. To be happy, truly happy, through and through, balls to bones. None of it by chance. All totally evolved from the single intent of the life-sphere. |
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Babu
Australia
9 Posts |
Posted - May 10 2011 : 05:30:18 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Clear White Light
quote:
Originally posted by nodoubt
I've read Jed's books. He teaches people life is meaningless. I guess his meaning is that you make your own meaning. Or it's strictly meaningless. Either way this falls short of the glorious intent of life.
What is the intent of life?
FINDING OUT as you go, which is alien to what one has been conditioned to do - as in the HERD mentality, EGO etc. Part of this thing I feel.
I read in that JED guys book, that navigating without thought, MAN, that appears to be somewhat big, goes against the grain. Interesting though. THE whole bit of GOT TO DO SOMETHING etc etc, is so dam ingrained, and there is much fear if one hasn't got something, anything etc, I dare say this is why this journey is HARD, and one must go through this stuff, or one is trapped. |
Edited by - Babu on May 10 2011 7:40:51 PM |
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luckymoron
Netherlands
1 Posts |
Posted - Jul 26 2011 : 10:56:16 AM
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Hi,
In Spiritual Warfare, 'The Partner' is mentioned. Could anyone tell me to what movie (or book?) this refers to?
Thank you.
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Jed McKenna
