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thundu
17 Posts |
 Posted - Feb 05 2006 : 10:02:20 AM
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hi everybody,
i am new to this forum. i was a silent member in AYP forum and AYP groups site for the past one year. i practised very irregularly, so i didnt get much inner silence. But now i am practising regularly. I do 30 min asanas which are very simple(learnt from KYM , Chennai) 10 min Pranayama and 10 min meditation on OM .i am plannig to add samayama after getting some inner silence .this is about me.
My question is ...
You must have heard about Auto Suggestion (AS)or affirmation and Creative visualization(CV).
actually it is repeating mentally "i am honest" if you want to be honest (AS) and visulaizing being honest in your life(CV). People say we can also apply this for fullfilling our desires like buying a house or car.
In a ebook which i took from the site link in AYP forum site they said
"The Brahm Varchas Shodh Sansthan in Hardwar (India) has experimented with some of the
spiritual sadhanas and the first one was AS"
the book is
ASTONISHING FUNCTIONS OF HUMAN BRAIN AND
MIRACLES OF MIND
Pt. Shriram Sharma Acharya
This was explained Under the heading Swasanketa (Auto-suggestion)
I believe what we do in spinal breathing is Visualization ...
Even many people say that Einstein and many other great personalities used this CV in their life and acheived many things in their life
What is my question is if we follow AS and CV to get good qualities and fulfill our desire, will it affect our AYP practices?....
If yes.... why?
If No when can we do that ... before or after AYP.....
Even if you think it is a very simple and silly question ,please explain it clearly....Because this is confusing me a lot for the past 6 months ..... i am eagrly waiting for your answers especially from YOGANI
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Feb 05 2006 : 12:44:59 PM
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Hi Thundu,
I used creative visualization (still do at times) and used affirmations for years in the world of sport. I found it to be a useful tool to become aware of the unconscious or subconscious negative thoughts that constantly disempower us at the back of our minds. It is like slowly counteracting the thousands of repetitions we have of any disempowering thought. Recently I have found that placing my awareness intensely on any of these disempowering thoughts accomplishes the same objective but much more quickly.
All of these things though are techniques I use outside of my AYP sitting practices. Slowly over time, meditation will help unravel and release these obstructions and negativity that take away from our ability to manifest the reality we want. As our awareness increases, we become more and more aware of our thinking patterns and how they don't always serve our best interest, with this awareness they tend to drop away.
I personally would use them outside of AYP practice time as using them during will take away from the effectiveness of your sitting practices. Another option would be to do them at the end of meditation when resting before getting up. They can also be done effectively during the day as well.
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yogani99
USA
153 Posts |
Posted - Feb 05 2006 : 12:53:02 PM
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Hi Thundu, and welcome!
Your step-by-step approach to the AYP practices sounds very good. The only suggestion would be to review lesson #59 and lesson #188 with regard to using OM as a starting mantra, and how we handle the incorporation of OM as an enhancement component later on in AYP deep meditation. It is your choice how to proceed, of course.
It is also your choice on what additional practices to undertake. The suggestion here is to follow your own inclinations in ways that are consistent with maintaining the stability of your sitting practices and balance in daily life. In other words, use the principles of "self-pacing" wisely. Most of us have careers to follow and families to care for, and following our commitments with the best intentions to do good will be more than enough to stabilize and make permanent our inner silence and ecstatic conductivity gained in sitting practices.
Because of this, I have not ventured too far in suggesting a lot of additional practices to be doing in our daily life. It could easily become a burden for many, and then it will not work. The ability to visualize and manifest a more positive reality within and around us will come naturally as we sit twice-daily in our practices and then go out and pursue our heart's longings in the world, having been colored so deeply by the divine. Then it is the divine vision coming from within that we are actualizing.
This does not mean that additional practices should not be done. It just leaves it in your hands, which is where it belongs. AYP aims to cover the essentials. After that, it is all a great and wonderful play. So, do enjoy yourself! 
The guru is in you.
PS -- Hi Anthem. Good reply. I posted before seeing it, so this is an echo of your thoughts. 
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Feb 05 2006 : 1:01:02 PM
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Agreed, Anthem, on not mixing it with AYP. In fact (note: I have lots of experience with hypnosis and self-hypnosis), it may not be appropriate (or necessary) for those of us engaged in a practice like AYP. We're not trying to fix negative patterns by replacing them with positive ones, we're seeking to see the patterns for what they are....superficial stuff that can't really touch our deeper, true selves. Let 'em play on. Shrug. Whatever.
(woops: I, too, missed your posting before posting this, Yogani! I wonder if anyone's been working on a reply as I type THIS....) |
Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Feb 05 2006 1:02:22 PM |
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thundu
17 Posts |
Posted - Feb 06 2006 : 01:17:28 AM
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thank you anthem, Yogani, jim for your replies....
Anthem i will follow this sentence quote:
Another option would be to do them at the end of meditation when resting before getting up
and yogani
i tried practising I AM first. It wasnt comfortable for me as my mother tongue is actulally an indian language. And i was already comfortable with OM to some extent.. thats why i continued OM instead of I AM.
As far as pranayama and asasnas are considered i am very comfortable..but meditation 10 min itself looks to me as 1 hr session.. i am not enjoying meditation ... but i really enjoy pranayama...
Any suggestion to improve meditation it....or am i suffering because of OM?
and jim
quote:
it may not be appropriate (or necessary) for those of us engaged in a practice like AYP
what do you mean by appropriate?
is it unnecessary?
will it affect AYP?
can i do that after meditation ?
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Feb 06 2006 : 11:46:46 AM
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Thundu, I thought I answered those questions. Let me try again (and follow up if I can clarify more). Let me answer all by answering your last question:
"can i do that after meditation ?"
You can do anything you want! :) I don't mean that in a nasty way...quite seriously, if it's something you're called to do, go for it. All I'll suggest is that you bear in mind that we're trying to work PAST the point where patterns (positive or negative) affect us, rather than adjust the patterns themselves. We are not the bundle of thought voices that comprise our consciousness at the most superficial everyday level. We are also not the bundle of impulses that lie just beyond that, in our subconscious. That stuff is just stuff. We are nothing but endless love (much like the Lionel Richie song). And the more you do yoga and come to realize this (at first in rare glimpses through the mud that covers us and that we are trying to clean off via practices), the less any of that superficial stuff matters. Not that it disappears...i'ts all still there, but while the motor may rev, it doesn't move the car. (Last month it was chocolate analogies. This month, cars. I don't know why.)
Another way of saying it is that yoga isn't self help. It's a way to satisfy the deep quest for knowledge of who you are. If you try to combine both things together, you may not reach either goal. That said, if you want to work on self help separately (not combined with AYP), that's great! But be aware that if you practice AYP diligently, you may (per above) find that you've transcended the problem faster than you can fix the problem!
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Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Feb 06 2006 11:48:33 AM |
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thundu
17 Posts |
Posted - Feb 06 2006 : 12:09:41 PM
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| thank you Jim for your Humorous reply. i hope i soon experience what you have said.... |
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yogani99
USA
153 Posts |
Posted - Feb 06 2006 : 12:25:20 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by thundu
i tried practising I AM first. It wasnt comfortable for me as my mother tongue is actulally an indian language. And i was already comfortable with OM to some extent.. thats why i continued OM instead of I AM. As far as pranayama and asasnas are considered i am very comfortable..but meditation 10 min itself looks to me as 1 hr session.. i am not enjoying meditation ... but i really enjoy pranayama... Any suggestion to improve meditation it....or am i suffering because of OM?
Hi Thudu:
You can spell I AM as AYAM, or any other way that has the same sound. It is not about language at all. Just consider it to be a sound that has certain beneficial effects in the nervous system. As mentioned in the referenced lessons, OM is tough for beginners because it is single pole and highly energetic. This might seem good in theory. Afterall, they chant OM in the streets everywhere in India, yes? But for deep meditation it is a lot more to digest. There is 1,000 times more energy when we go deep -- not to mention what direction we are going in the subtle nerves with a particular sound. That is the tuning fork resonance aspect discussed in lessons. There is a method to all of this mantra stuff.
That's why we save OM for later. Your choice...
Btw, there is no reason we can't continue to use OM, or anything else we are familiar with, in the ways we have been taught in our cultural/religious background. Just keep in mind that deep meditation is something entirely different -- and the rules are not the same. With right practice of deep meditation (including right sequencing of mantra), we will find the deep resonant truth in our cultural/religious roots as inner silence comes up. Then OM (or our cultural/religious equivalent) will really shine for us. And if we do not have a cultural/religious equivalent, it will shine anyway.
The guru is in you.
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Feb 06 2006 : 2:48:07 PM
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I thought of a metaphor. In some ways it's a bit dumb and clunky, but maybe it'll help.
Say a guy has an irresistible urge to turn his back yard into a very deep hole - all the way to the core of the earth. And he's found a way to do it that he believes will work, just using one single bulldozer. What motivates him? 1. little holes in the yard sometimes have bits of lava seeping out, and he really loves the lava, 2. he has an innate feeling that the dirt and rock taking up space between the surface and the core is uninteresting, and 3. he's simply compelled to do it (bhakti!).
now, because he's someone interested in projects, interested in matters of earth and soil and such, he also notices as he's digging that the earthworms in his yard aren't the best kind. So he figures that as he do this project, he might as well stop and pull out the bad earthworms and swap them for good ones.
It's logical. there's nothing wrong with it. But if it slows down the bulldozer...if it becomes part of the big drilling project, he'll never finish drilling, and everything will get all muddled. He'll be using the bulldozer in a different way than his big plan calls for....and that plan, in itself, is already pretty darned ambitious. There are a lot of earthworms and there's a long way to dig!
The advice you'd probably give him is the advice I've just given you. You're only digging (i.e. AYP) a couple times a day. So if, in your off time, you also want to work on this other project (affirmation/suggestion), why not? Just don't stop digging, and don't weigh down the digging project with an extra project that doesnt' really fit.
Most of all, don't forget that once you've really started digging, the earthworms won't matter.
If that clumsy metaphor was so obvious as to insult your intelligence, please forgive me. I'm just striving to be clear for you and those reading along! :) |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Feb 06 2006 : 4:25:43 PM
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The two most important ingredients on the path are
1) bhakti (desire, and that can be desire for God, or just desire for inner purification, or whatever fits your religion), and
2) twice daily practice (and that would be meditation plus whatever you have added on according to the lessons).
The rest of the day if you still feel the bhakti it will enhance your practice. If your day is full of earthly desires the practice will go slower, but it will still work.
I have a close friend who is a psychologist, and she says affirmations don't do much good, because if those things aren't happening in your life it is because you don't believe in them, and affirmations that conflict with your beliefs are just words, and part of you won't believe them.
Personally I've found something much more powerful than affirmations. That is searching for 'confirmation' or 'proof'. This goes hand in hand with being thankful for what you already have everyday.
Let's take abundance as an example. It is common for poor people to feel they are lacking abundance in their lives. Their days are filled with thoughts of "there's not enough money." An affirmation would seem to correct that problem, but that's not the root of the problem.
The root of the problem is the belief that there's not enough, and
THE SUBCONSCIOUS SEARCHING FOR CONFIRMATION OF THAT BELIEF.
All day long, in the background of their normal thoughts, they are doing this searching. And they constantly find confirmation.
The thoughts go like this: "I can't afford that"
"If I had more money, that problem would be solved"
"Life is so much easier for rich people"
"Of course THEY can enjoy life; they're rich"
"if I only had THAT I would be happy."
And all of the thoughts are based upon a single premise that goes
something like this:
"AHA! there is proof that I don't have enough money."
We don't even know we are doing this, but if you change your search pattern, you'll catch yourself doing it.
So what's more powerful than affirmations, is to make your thoughts search for confirmation that there is abundance in your life, then thank God for it. It'll be hard at first if you don't believe it, but this is how to change belief systems.
If you have enough to eat, say "thank you God, for giving me enough to eat."
Try to feel that thanks in your heart.
Maybe you can't pay all your bills, but you can pay one. "Thank you God for giving me the money to pay this bill." Don't have a negative feeling in the background that it isn't enough because the others aren't paid. Develop a feeling of thankfulness, and that the one bill being payed is a sign that God is taking care of things. it's OK not to understand how he/she works.
that's how you can develop bhakti. It's a matter of believing first,
results later.
Of course you need to take care of everyday obligations to the best of your ability. Don't gamble your money away or leave your coat behind in the snowstorm thinking God will save you! He/she wants you to use your brain too.
I used abundance as an example, but this applies to anything.
Try to search for proof that something is true, and it reinforces that belief. I think we do this for all of our beliefs and don't know it.
Be careful; this is powerful, and you can find proof of ANYTHING!
If you search for proof of something that nobody else believes in, you will find it eventually, but it will distance you from society.
You can easily test this. Pick something that is insignificant, and for one week, whenever you think of it, search for confirmation of that belief, and
see what happens. It can be quite funny if you pick something like "Stop lights will never turn green until they have made at least one car stop."
hopefully you'll pick something more useful than that. |
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thundu
17 Posts |
Posted - Feb 07 2006 : 02:00:32 AM
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Jim ,
i should be grateful to you for explaining the the answer to simple question using two
mteaphor(car and backyard)
Ether thanks for explainig me clearly about the blief system. i understood clearly. But for simple desire like getting a good job, house and car .... wat can we do? ......wat is the proof?...proof is that we dont have those thing
Yogani... i feel its better for me to go for I AM...
finally another quetion
While doing siddhasana for meditation and pranayama...
i kept my leg between scrotum and anus( i believe its perinium)...You said you will have some sexual feelings...and some people said they even masturbated( question section).... BUT for me , no feeling... nothing is happening ... Why ?
any problem with the perinium region in my body? |
Edited by - thundu on Feb 07 2006 07:13:16 AM |
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yogani99
USA
153 Posts |
Posted - Feb 07 2006 : 10:22:31 AM
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Hi Thundu:
Yes, that is correct siddhasana, and there is nothing wrong with you.
It is all a process of purification and opening. If we continue with deep meditation and add practices on when we know we are ready, the openings will occur in due course. It is not about expecting any particular outcome on a given day. It is about applying the means daily to purify and open the channels. The rest is up to our natural inner processes. When you notice some quietness, some new clarity dawning during the day after your meditations, then you will know that something good is happening. All the rest will flow from that.
The guru is in you.
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Feb 08 2006 : 08:18:46 AM
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"Ether thanks for explainig me clearly about the blief system. i understood clearly. But for simple desire like getting a good job, house and car .... wat can we do? ......wat is the proof?...proof is that we dont have those thing"
As you mentioned in your post it is not necessary to take action on these things. i only mentioned it because you seemed to want to do affirmations.
The proof of things you don't have is in little clues that lead to them. If your thoughts dwell on not having them you are perpetuating the situation. If you watch carefully how a person with a big ego acts, it will give you very valuable information. They continue to believe in something that has nothing to back it up. When faced with a proof that everything is wrong, they refuse to believe it, or they say it is just a fluke, or a "losing streak" that is not normal, or will end soon.
So that is how you search for proof of something like the house or car you need. First you don't waste much energy thinking you don't have it. When you do think of it, it's just a temporary condition that will pass. Then search for proof that it will pass, or that it is temporary. You'll have to take it from there. You can find it if you really try.
Then you put most of your concentration on the practice, and inner silence. This is just something to do when your mind goes crazy worrying about something you don't have.
My main point is, as long as you spend energy *thinking* something is wrong, the more energy you waste on making it stay that way. This also applies to thinking other people are wrong, but that's a different story. |
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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - Feb 08 2006 : 08:49:26 AM
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Etherfish said:
My main point is, as long as you spend energy *thinking* something is wrong, the more energy you waste on making it stay that way. This also applies to thinking other people are wrong, but that's a different story.
Thats a good point galactic Etherfish. I.ve been thinking on this in terms of - any negitive thoughts we have about anything and anyone has a very damaging effect on us, it weighs us down, it drains our energy, it stops us in our tracks both physically and spiritually.
This is very apparent when we switch from this negitive mode of thinking, with a conscious choice to stop damaging ourselves and look for the positive, or just simply choose to love everybody.
If we are in our thinking mind all the time this is probably not possible, but when we are practicing meditation things like this become possible.
Your perspective of "the more energy you waste on making it stay that way" is a slightly new way of looking at it for me which I find interesting.
Thanks
Sparkle |
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thundu
17 Posts |
Posted - Feb 08 2006 : 11:48:33 AM
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Thanks again ether fish for explaining
but your example says
If you watch carefully how a person with a big ego acts, it will give you very valuable information. They continue to believe in something that has nothing to back it up. When faced with a proof that everything is wrong, they refuse to believe it, or they say it is just a fluke, or a "losing streak" that is not normal, or will end soon.
BUT a egoistic person will be finally proved wrong in the end!!!!!!!!!????....
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Feb 08 2006 : 6:16:17 PM
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Egotistic people are not wrong necessarily, they are just under a different delusion than people who aren't egotistical. I didn't mean for you to become egotistical. What I meant is to watch how they view the world, because you can learn how to face the worst without it bothering you.
If you present an egotistical person with information that seems to absolutely prove them wrong, they won't be swayed. They will refuse to believe it. They will think there's more to it, or the information is wrong, or the information will change shortly, etc.
And that is exactly how you can train your attitude to "have faith in God when facing the devil", or believe you'll have a house when everything tells you it's impossible. Always think there's another way.
Getting something big that you want like a house or a car doesn't happen quickly. There is a long path you follow to get there, and each step you make proves that the goal is possible. It's not all about money. You might need a driver's license, or vision correction, or a good credit record, etc.
If you put a little money in a savings account and reserve it for one of those goals, it confirms in your mind that it is possible. You might need to take a part time job, or go to school to get a better job, but taking these steps is a positive thing to do instead of thinking it's impossible.
Don't ever think things like "I can only put a small amount of money in the bank, and it will take forever." Instead, put that small amount in the bank, and spend your thoughts thinking about how to get the next small amount. That way your thoughts are moving you towards your goal instead of making you feel bad. If you really try, you will come up with new methods to get you to your goals.
Then you can meditate and learn to relax and enjoy and you won't worry about how long it takes to get those things. |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Feb 09 2006 : 10:24:17 AM
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Etherfish said:
If you present an egotistical person with information that seems to absolutely prove them wrong, they won't be swayed. They will refuse to believe it. They will think there's more to it, or the information is wrong, or the information will change shortly, etc.
Indeed. That phenomenon is part of a more general one where we tend to believe certain things, not because they are true, but rather merely because we are heavily emotionally invested in believing them.
The phenomenon (or an aspect of it) is called Cognitive Dissonance Reduction. This is a process in which the contradicting evidence is discounted. It can happen to people in response to evidence against anything that is cherished -- a favorite politician, a guru, a method or practice, a healing modality, a diet.
-D |
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thundu
17 Posts |
Posted - Feb 09 2006 : 1:36:58 PM
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thanks .... you never become tired explaining me ....thanks ether fish
thanks david for introducing us to a new Term CONGNITIVE DISSONANCE REDUCTION |
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Auto suggestion and creative visualization
