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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
 Posted - May 14 2010 : 05:11:25 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by tonightsthenight
quote:
Originally posted by karl
I might also add that it is acceptance of the thoughts without attachment that is the root of change.
What was important for me was to end suffering. It was not to go somewhere spriritual, attain fantastic powers or be able to see the inside of creation as an untouchable being.
All suffering is internal, finding the mechanism to release this and gain perspective gives ultimate acceptance and so ultimate acceptance of self allows a wider vision and a deeper understanding.
It does not mean that I communicate with God or can understand how I became I. Just, simply that I love what I am and that everything else is, regardless of how it is and finally an end to the search for something to make me happy/something to become/something to avoid.
 Does make me laugh out loud at how I ended up like that in the first place. It really is so simple, yet I seemed to have decided to make it into something with infinite complexity and difficulty in order to obscure the truth.
You can have the same but you have got to decide that you really want to take it and that's the hard part 
I get what your saying here. You want peace. Makes sense.
I want peace too, everyone wants peace.
But like most humans, i want to contribute and i want to use my talents to create and to thrive and to serve. Life to me is more than just the evolution of spirituality... its about a making believe, its about playing, its about mystery and its about romanticism. 
I think we can do both. Do you?
LOL 'Both'. Cake and eat it!
Not in the sense you mean, but good try
Attachment to material things IS suffering.
You can choose to be altruistic and to serve, that's how it seems, but look inside more carefully. Even if you get no obvious material reward, you do get self gratification, a sense of well being and goodness and this is part of the same cycle of attachment, just cunningly disguised as 'giving'.
None attachment is none investment in anything, able to give without recieving anything. Truly selfless, not because you think you are selfless but because there really is no action in it, you gave nothing and there is nothing to be received. You can contribute fully, far more than you can now in the full realisation that your whole universe is an illusion.
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tonightsthenight
846 Posts |
Posted - May 15 2010 : 2:31:21 PM
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Okay Karl, I understand what you are saying.
But in my opinion this perception is only a phase.
We are meant to realize that the universe is an illusion.
But the universe has been created for a purpose... what is that purpose? That can only be answered individually by experience.
I believe that we are meant to fully interact with the universe, all the time knowing its an illusion.
Otherwise, what would become of humanity? If everyone were to be self-realized fully, then all of humanity would be hermit-sages living in solitude, and there would be no science, farmers, culture, art or relationships. |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4429 Posts |
Posted - May 15 2010 : 4:32:42 PM
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Hi TNTN,
I believe it's fine (and good) to engage in service for others. If you are drawn to do so then it is your dharma. Practicing selfless service doesn't mean that you need to be selfless to do it (who is? ), it just means we are practicing to be selfless.
Karl is right, that selfless service can become a trap for the ego, but then everything (including self-inquiry practice and meditation) can become traps for the ego. We have to get on, whilst trying to avoid the traps as best we can.
Christi
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manigma
India
1065 Posts |
Posted - May 16 2010 : 12:30:32 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by tonightsthenight
If everyone were to be self-realized fully, then all of humanity would be hermit-sages living in solitude, and there would be no science, farmers, culture, art or relationships.
Then we will have sages as scientists, farmers, in culture, art and relationships.
The world would become much clearer, pure and better.
This is what I make up of Kingdom of God, Heaven or Satyayuga. |
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tonightsthenight
846 Posts |
Posted - May 16 2010 : 11:54:35 PM
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manigma, i agree. That is exactly my point. Self realization is only the first step, then we have to live.
People that say that self realization is the actual goal are misguided, in my opinion.
Feel free to say i am wrong, i would welcome the communication. But i do not see a reason not to live our lives for the sake of an idea.
Christi, i fully agree that anything can be an ego trap. Anything. So what? I am not walking on eggshells, i am living my life in accordance with my spirit, and that is all there is to it. I will live and love and enjoy and celebrate and suffer, and if someone want to abstain from the realities of life that is their choice. But not me. |
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manigma
India
1065 Posts |
Posted - May 17 2010 : 03:16:08 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by tonightsthenight
manigma, i agree. That is exactly my point. Self realization is only the first step, then we have to live.
People that say that self realization is the actual goal are misguided, in my opinion.
Feel free to say i am wrong, i would welcome the communication. But i do not see a reason not to live our lives for the sake of an idea.
Humans are becoming smarter.
Reminds of this:
Remember, your inheritance -- your biological cells, your structure -- cannot be changed just by ideological education. No school, no ideology can change your inner animal. Only a scientific technique can change the inner being. Just moral teachings will not help unless you have a scientific technique to change your total inner consciousness. Only then will you not be double: you will become single.
The animal is single, unitary; the saint too is single and unitary. Man is double because man is just between the two, the animal and the saint - or, you can say between God and dog. Man is just in between. Inside he remains the dog; outside he pretends to be God. That creates a tension, anguish, and everything becomes false. You could fall down and become an animal; then you would be more authentic than man. But then you would miss much -- you would miss the possibility to become God.
The animal cannot become God because the animal has no problems to transcend. Remember, the animal cannot become God because there is nothing to be transformed. The animal is at ease with himself; there is no problem, no struggle, no need for transcendence. The animal is not even conscious, he is simply unconsciously authentic. But the animal IS authentic, although the authenticity is unconscious. No animal can lie; that is impossible. But it is not because animals maintain a morality, they cannot lie because they are not aware of the possibility that one can be false.
http://www.otantra.net/oTantra/VBTv...apter18.html |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4429 Posts |
Posted - May 17 2010 : 06:21:29 AM
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Hi TNTN,
quote:
Christi, i fully agree that anything can be an ego trap. Anything. So what? I am not walking on eggshells, i am living my life in accordance with my spirit, and that is all there is to it. I will live and love and enjoy and celebrate and suffer, and if someone want to abstain from the realities of life that is their choice. But not me.
Absolutely. And that's what we all must do.
All the best,
Christi |
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Chiron
Russia
397 Posts |
Posted - May 17 2010 : 06:48:40 AM
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How can that live which has never been born? If there is only one being, whom is there to love? Joy brings sorrow and sorrow brings joy. Nothing has changed, what is there to celebrate? Who is the ascetic, he who experiences the universe in its full glory or he who experiences his tiny earthly shell? Who is choosing what when all is the will of the infinite?
Sorry people, too much padmasana.. muhahahaha. I see you. |
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