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Jnaga
USA
8 Posts |
 Posted - Apr 28 2010 : 01:54:22 AM
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Hi Everyone!
Several books I have read recently speak to this subject. One common theme is that when the ego is transcended:
1. It feels like death
2. It is terrifying, because ...
3. One is convinced that it will be the end of oneself
4. One must prepare oneself for when this choice will come
5. It is the final barrier to enlightenment
6. One must give one's consent for this to happen
7. If one arrives at the threshold and does not give one's consent, that may not be good.
The Bhagavad Gita, Donald Walters (Swami Kriyananda), David R Hawkins, and others, write about this. I believe in "Autobiography ...", Sri Yogananda says something like: "There is no Paramahansa. He died years ago".
I have not finished the Main Lessons of AYP, but about half way through I have not seen mention of this. Did I miss it? Is this addressed later?
How does this figure into the AYP scheme of things?
My instinct is that maybe David R Hawkins is trying to be scary for some reason, though he says he is writing of it so that we might be prepared when the choice presents itself. "When the door swings open", I believe is an expression he uses. Which he says tends to happen withough warning.
I suspect that if and when Yogani writes of this, that it will not be so scary. He is so easy to read and follow. And nurturing.
Still, death of oneself is an intimidating prospect.
Would anyone like to shed some light on this for us?
Thanks!
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Clear White Light
USA
229 Posts |
Posted - Apr 28 2010 : 07:37:14 AM
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| The ayp approach to dealing with this is through self-pacing. When the level of purification exceeds your ability to deal with it, then it can become traumatic or scary. At which time it may become appropriate to back off a little. If we keep our level or purification at a manageable level it will ensure that we make progress which we can actually sustain. If someone is not prepared to experience ego death it will certainly be traumatic. However, if they have dipped their toe into the water many times before fully reaching that point, the experience will be more manageable and sustainable. It is only our identification with the mind/body complex which makes it scary. By doing daily practices we can gradually dissolve that identification and subsequently the fears that come with it. |
Edited by - Clear White Light on Apr 28 2010 08:17:35 AM |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Apr 28 2010 : 08:13:34 AM
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Hi Jnaga,
Welcome to the AYP forums. 
That does sound scary.  
The experience of many here is that the dissolving of the ego is gradual and beautiful.
The main reason for this is because here in AYP we work on increasing our inner silence through meditation and pranayama and other practices. When the inner silence is prevalent in our lives, there is nothing that is scary, becasue this vast inner silence absorbs/dissolves it all. Then self inquiry (the means by which we dissolves the ego) comes naturally to us. Yogani calls this relational self inquiry. Self inquiry that happens naturally through silence.
Here is an analogy that may help.
When you put a bar of gold into mercury, the gold will dissolve into the mercury. The explanation given in the books you read speaks from the point of view of the gold bar... it is melting away, losing its identity, it is painful etc... however, when we practice meditation etc. and increase our inner silence, we experience the same phenomenon of the gold dissolving in the mercury, but from the point of view of the mercury... we expand are are filled with gold and the experience is beautiful.
Here are some words from Yogani on ego:
http://www.aypsite.org/389.html
Ego is just a concept, a word to describe consciousness identified with the objects of perception. Or, as the Buddhists say, "attached" to the objects of perception. The mind itself will not become dead until we are dead. It goes from being a tool of identified self (small "s") to being a tool of unidentified Self (big "S"). What becomes dead in this life is identification of our awareness as self with all that appears in time and space. That is not death of the mind, or even of the "I thought" we call ego. We just come to know it for what it is, through the increasing presence of abiding inner silence (witness) cultivated in spiritual practices. It is the illumination of the mind in a divine outpouring, which then can awaken the unending joy of Oneness in time and space. It is the same thing that has been talked about by the sages of old, and modern ones too. It is the same experience. Only the words describing it may be a little different.
You can read the FAQ on Self Inquiry here: http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....OPIC_ID=3610
And
Look at the lessons on relational self inquiry to get a better idea of what I am trying to say here:
Lesson 321 – An Inquiry about Ending Suffering
Lesson 322 – The Witness as Underlying Cause of Self-Inquiry
Lesson 323 – Roles of Knowledge, Philosophy and Direct Experience
Lesson 324 – Self-Inquiry – From Inspiration to Realization
Lesson 325 – Relational and Non-Relational Self-Inquiry
Lesson 326 – Styles of Self-Inquiry and Bridging the Gap
Lesson 327 – The Evolutionary Stages of Mind
Lesson 283 - Is Enlightenment an Illusion?
Hope these help.
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Jnaga
USA
8 Posts |
Posted - Apr 28 2010 : 12:59:15 PM
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| Thank you, Clear White Light, and Shanti. That helps! And is totally consistent with what I understand from reading so far. |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Apr 30 2010 : 07:21:51 AM
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I posted on this part of the forum regarding my experiences of this and it has been moved to 'Milestones of Enlightenment'.
My experience was to come to an edge and look into an abyss of whirling energy which approximated Hell itself, everyone has a diiferent vision and experience I would think.
Yes I was ready and yes I gave permission. Like jumping from a high diving board it was difficult and frightening. It seemed particularly hard and the closer I came the more scary it appeared. Annihilation, death, destruction ? Yes, all those things, the closer I got the more warnings I felt, but somehow the desire was greater than the fear.
Maybe I didn't self pace enough, perhaps I was just too eager to see what was over the next hill regardless of the danger (that is the same in the way I normally am with a love of dangerous sports and a need to constantly feel change).
Anyway it all worked out fine in the end. The huge build up of fear, the worry over what might happen, doom, destruction and all that stuff the mind throws at you to stop you doing something. The jump was minor really. Just like diving from a high board, once you land in the water you can't remember jumping and it's just one more experience and then wondering what all the fuss was about, you didn't die, get drowned or any of those things that you thought would happen. The only thing you might lose is a bit of dignity, or your swimming trunks
Of course that is only the beginning, the start of something else and I'm curious to see just where it leads
Just keep going and follow whatever and wherever your inner Guru points you. It may seem daunting, it may seem improbable and confusing and ultimately it's just like learning to ride a bike.
That's how it went for me and I have never seen anyone else explain it quite that way.
Just stay focused, keep listening, keep questioning, keep your desire burning as brightly as a thousand suns or brighter.
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Panthau
Austria
149 Posts |
Posted - May 16 2010 : 1:36:41 PM
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Ok thats an interesting topic. Im really torn about doing something where nothing is to do. I have this picture of climbing a mountain, just to get back to the ground on the other side.
So from what i´ve been reading so far, practicing AYP brings us to the point, where we trascend our ego? That must be the point where we recognize that theres nothing to do right?
Its weird for me. Im confused. |
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Wolfgang
Germany
470 Posts |
Posted - May 16 2010 : 2:07:06 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Panthau
Ok thats an interesting topic. Im really torn about doing something where nothing is to do. I have this picture of climbing a mountain, just to get back to the ground on the other side.
So from what i´ve been reading so far, practicing AYP brings us to the point, where we trascend our ego? That must be the point where we recognize that theres nothing to do right?
Its weird for me. Im confused.
Hi !
I prefer to say: I am not obliged to do (therefore there is nothing to do),
but I am free to do something anyway !
my 2 cents |
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wakeupneo
USA
171 Posts |
Posted - May 16 2010 : 6:13:26 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Jnaga
Hi Everyone!
Several books I have read recently speak to this subject. One common theme is that when the ego is transcended:
1. It feels like death
2. It is terrifying, because ...
3. One is convinced that it will be the end of oneself
4. One must prepare oneself for when this choice will come
5. It is the final barrier to enlightenment
6. One must give one's consent for this to happen
7. If one arrives at the threshold and does not give one's consent, that may not be good.
The Bhagavad Gita, Donald Walters (Swami Kriyananda), David R Hawkins, and others, write about this. I believe in "Autobiography ...", Sri Yogananda says something like: "There is no Paramahansa. He died years ago".
I have not finished the Main Lessons of AYP, but about half way through I have not seen mention of this. Did I miss it? Is this addressed later?
How does this figure into the AYP scheme of things?
My instinct is that maybe David R Hawkins is trying to be scary for some reason, though he says he is writing of it so that we might be prepared when the choice presents itself. "When the door swings open", I believe is an expression he uses. Which he says tends to happen withough warning.
I suspect that if and when Yogani writes of this, that it will not be so scary. He is so easy to read and follow. And nurturing.
Still, death of oneself is an intimidating prospect.
Would anyone like to shed some light on this for us?
Thanks!
Who is scared? |
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Panthau
Austria
149 Posts |
Posted - May 17 2010 : 1:38:33 PM
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quote:
I prefer to say: I am not obliged to do (therefore there is nothing to do),
but I am free to do something anyway !
my 2 cents
Jup, maybe it doesnt matter anyway. Theres no way back to what we are, so lets go. |
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Questions re Transcending the Ego
