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Lili
Netherlands
372 Posts |
 Posted - Apr 26 2010 : 04:32:08 AM
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Hi Folks,
I recently stumbled upon the work of a Canada-based Christian Orthodox priest and find it quite interesting.(http://www.warriorcoachinginternational.com/)
One of the techniques he recommends is a simple form of observing the breath and/or body scanning, done right before going to sleep. Since the timing does not conflict with my AYP routine I am tempted to give it a try. Do you think this will lead to overload?
Thanks, Lili |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4514 Posts |
Posted - Apr 26 2010 : 06:02:13 AM
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Hi Lili,
I doubt very much that it will lead to overload, but it is always a good idea to keep an eye on things and self-pace accordingly. I have always included an observing the breath meditation in my practice routine, just before DM, and have had no problems with it.
Christi |
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Lili
Netherlands
372 Posts |
Posted - Apr 26 2010 : 10:44:39 AM
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Hi Christi,
Thanks! How many minutes of observing the breath are you doing? Are you doing deliberately abdominal breathing or just natural?Have you tried body scan? Thx again, Lili
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Edited by - Lili on Apr 26 2010 10:47:59 AM |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4514 Posts |
Posted - Apr 26 2010 : 4:27:02 PM
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Hi Lili,
I do 10 minutes of breathing meditation before DM. I just breathe normally. I described the practice here:
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....ID=6503#6503
I used to incorporate a basic body scan practice into my routine, but have not done for quite a while now. |
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Smileyogi
Australia
50 Posts |
Posted - Apr 27 2010 : 03:01:02 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Lili
Hi Folks,
One of the techniques he recommends is a simple form of observing the breath and/or body scanning, done right before going to sleep. Since the timing does not conflict with my AYP routine I am tempted to give it a try. Do you think this will lead to overload?
Thanks, Lili
Hi Lili..
Developing the witness will not lead to overload,since is based on consciousness only school..not energy work or kundalini.(actually is based on vipasanna ,with a twist of body scanning.)
As Cristi said...it will be ok.
There is a witness in you..so this will help(even so you are creating an artificial one,till you become it..that is useful),it will not interfere with energy work.
You must understand that all these techniques actually try to initiate the knowledge of the witness within you.(till you become it)
The yogachara,or pure esoteric Zen schools try to get directly at the witness within.
Understanding is the key on these matters.But most of all,do not confuse the cause with the affect.
The guru is in you,and also outside.
love,danny
To us all towns are one, all men our kin. Life's good comes not from others' gift, nor ill. Man's pains and pains' relief are from within. Thus have we seen in visions of the wise !." - Tamil Poem-
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Edited by - Smileyogi on Apr 27 2010 05:30:08 AM |
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Lili
Netherlands
372 Posts |
Posted - Apr 27 2010 : 05:16:36 AM
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Many thanks Christi--this is very useful for me. I am curious what your total practice looks like if you don't mind sharing  .
I don't want to mix up AYP with this other system so will try to do them separately with the breathing meditation and/or body scan done right before sleep.
quote:
Originally posted by Christi
Hi Lili,
I do 10 minutes of breathing meditation before DM. I just breathe normally. I described the practice here:
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....ID=6503#6503
I used to incorporate a basic body scan practice into my routine, but have not done for quite a while now.
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Apr 27 2010 : 05:43:38 AM
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Smileyogi, Christi and Lili,
I'd say it all depends on how sensitive you are and where you are on your journey.
I smacked into heavy overload when beginning watching the breath, cause it got automatic and continued through out the day. Stillness/consciousness and energies are sometimes bound to come together... 
Just another perspecive on causion here. I'd test it a bit at a time and see where it goes. |
Edited by - emc on Apr 27 2010 05:53:24 AM |
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Lili
Netherlands
372 Posts |
Posted - Apr 27 2010 : 06:08:57 AM
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Hi Smileyogi,
Thanks! Incidentally the Tamil quote you shared is given also in the book I am reading on these techniques called "The 5 pillars of life." I read the passage including this quote yesterday evening so funny to find it again today.
EMC,
When you got the overload were you practicing AYP or it was before you started doing AYP? How long was your watching the breath practice?
I tried other techniques as given by this author, e.g. embracing the tree exercise, qi gong etc without overload so far. |
Edited by - Lili on Apr 27 2010 06:10:27 AM |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Apr 27 2010 : 07:15:49 AM
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| My point is that it depends on your individual situation if you'll get overload or not - no matter what the practices are. Nobody can really know but you, when you try it out. |
Edited by - emc on Apr 27 2010 07:31:31 AM |
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Smileyogi
Australia
50 Posts |
Posted - Apr 28 2010 : 02:31:13 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by emc
Smileyogi, Christi and Lili,
I'd say it all depends on how sensitive you are and where you are on your journey.
I smacked into heavy overload when beginning watching the breath, cause it got automatic and continued through out the day. Stillness/consciousness and energies are sometimes bound to come together...
Yes,the consciousness is bound to ki(energy)...profound emptiness gives rise to ki manifestation,and viceversa...manipulating ki builds a strong one-pointed attention.
The idea is to let go,not get stuck on consciousness watching..there is something else...it's the space between thoughts,or between breaths..or between actions.
That's the true watcher,watching you as you watch the breath..funny,eghh?
And is not a person,even so it is you.
love,danny
Lead me from dreaming to waking.
Lead me from opacity to clarity.
Lead me from the complicated to the simple.
Lead me from the obscure to the obvious.
Lead me from intention to attention.
Lead me from what I'm told I am to what I see I am.
Lead me from confrontation to wide openness.
Lead me to the place I never left,
Where there is peace, and peace
- The Upanishads
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Smileyogi
Australia
50 Posts |
Posted - Apr 28 2010 : 03:12:18 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Lili
Hi Smileyogi,
Thanks! Incidentally the Tamil quote you shared is given also in the book I am reading on these techniques called "The 5 pillars of life." I read the passage including this quote yesterday evening so funny to find it again today.
Hi Lili..that is called resonance..this means you should pay attention to the fact,since it has relevance to you only.
By Carl Gustav Jung( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Jung) is was called synchronicity http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synchronicity
Much love to you:)
danny
Lead me from dreaming to waking.
Lead me from opacity to clarity.
Lead me from the complicated to the simple.
Lead me from the obscure to the obvious.
Lead me from intention to attention.
Lead me from what I'm told I am to what I see I am.
Lead me from confrontation to wide openness.
Lead me to the place I never left,
Where there is peace, and peace
- The Upanishads |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4514 Posts |
Posted - Apr 28 2010 : 3:27:06 PM
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Hi Lili,
As Danny says, there is a relationship between consciousness and energy. Bringing the mind to silence and stillness (samadhi) will activate prana (kundalini). So even pure meditation techniques need to be self-paced. My kundalini was first awakened by practicing breathing meditation alone.
And as emc says, the degree to which energetics are a problem depends entirely on the person. Many people practice breathing meditation for up to 10 hours a day (sitting in silence), without ever having any problems. Others, who may be on the edge energetically, need to pace breathing meditation (and any spiritual practice) carefully to avoid excesses.
quote:
I am curious what your total practice looks like if you don't mind sharing
I don't mind at all. It's something like this:
10 mins SBP
10 mins Breathing meditation
5 mins heart opening (metta bhavana)
20 mins DM
10 mins samyama
10 mins crown practices
cosmic samyama
sivasana (lying down)
I say "something like this" because I usually don't get right through the practice. I usually "go off" somewhere during the samyama or crown practices part and don't make it through the rest of the practice.
quote:
I don't want to mix up AYP with this other system so will try to do them separately with the breathing meditation and/or body scan done right before sleep.
Doing spiritual practices right before sleep can be a bad idea. But you'll find out pretty quick if it is a bad idea for you. It can stop us from sleeping properly, or it can lead to a very groggy state in the morning, a bit like having a really bad hangover. If this happens then I would move the practices forward to another time in the day and get some activity before bed.
Christi |
Edited by - Christi on Apr 28 2010 3:29:04 PM |
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Lili
Netherlands
372 Posts |
Posted - Apr 30 2010 : 05:01:16 AM
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Hi Christi,
Thanks a lot sounds great!
Will start adding breathing meditation before going to bed starting today and see how it goes. If I get a hangover will follow your advice and move it to some time during the day.
Your practice is massive--good that you can keep up with all that.
Best, Lili |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4514 Posts |
Posted - Apr 30 2010 : 06:16:53 AM
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Hi Lili,
quote:
Your practice is massive--good that you can keep up with all that.
I can't!
I have two small children and a job and it's impossible to keep up with anything. But I try my best. |
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Lili
Netherlands
372 Posts |
Posted - May 03 2010 : 05:14:07 AM
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Christi,
You're doing terrific --cramming in 1 hour of sitting practices twice a day alongside 2 kids and a job--my hat is off to you... |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4514 Posts |
Posted - May 03 2010 : 3:10:17 PM
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Hi Lili,
quote:
You're doing terrific--cramming in 1 hour of sitting practices twice a day alongside 2 kids and a job--my hat is off to you...
If I managed that then I would welcome the praise.
What I meant was, when I am lucky enough to get an hour to myself, that is my practice routine. It doesn't happen every day. If it did, I am sure I would be enlightened by now.  |
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Lili
Netherlands
372 Posts |
Posted - May 04 2010 : 09:58:57 AM
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quote:
If I managed that then I would welcome the praise.
Hi Christi--take it and run as I am not taking it back
I think even if not every time, if you can get yourself to do all this it's a lot. No need to be shy about it  |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4514 Posts |
Posted - May 04 2010 : 4:12:47 PM
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Hi Lili,
quote:
Hi Christi--take it and run as I am not taking it back
O.K. I will. |
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AlanCrawfordUK
United Kingdom
24 Posts |
Posted - Dec 08 2010 : 2:49:12 PM
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I'm really intrigued that you are doing metta bhavana (Cultivating Loving Kindness) in addition to the AYP practices. My introduction to meditation and my last 8 months experience of meditation has been from a Buddhist perspective. I would like to continue Loving Kindness meditations, as well as some of the other meditations we were taught at the buddhist centre (breathing in white light & breathing out dark smoke, dissolving everything inside your body into white light then eventually dissolving your skin and becoming formless - meditating on emptiness etc).
Do you think these are compatible with AYP?
Alan |
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Saagaram
USA
87 Posts |
Posted - Dec 16 2010 : 11:32:01 AM
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| Alan, There is a really beautiful loving-kindness practice known as taking and giving. It is the opposite of your light visualization. You visualize all the suffering of every sentient being in the universe as black smoke that you inhale which dissolves into compassionate white light in your body that you then exhale as white light of compassion absorbed into every sentient being. |
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Lili
Netherlands
372 Posts |
Posted - Dec 16 2010 : 12:11:25 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Saagaram
Alan, There is a really beautiful loving-kindness practice known as taking and giving. It is the opposite of your light visualization. You visualize all the suffering of every sentient being in the universe as black smoke that you inhale which dissolves into compassionate white light in your body that you then exhale as white light of compassion absorbed into every sentient being.
This is an advanced practice that is not recommended at all for beginning and intermediate-level practitioners. Please check the writing of Christopher Hansard and others for more on that subject.
Alan--if you want to try this practice suggest you do a literature review first and decide whether it is something for you at this stage.The practice you have found is probably much better suited for the purposes you wish to accomplish than this one. |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4514 Posts |
Posted - Dec 16 2010 : 12:31:16 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by AlanCrawfordUK
I'm really intrigued that you are doing metta bhavana (Cultivating Loving Kindness) in addition to the AYP practices. My introduction to meditation and my last 8 months experience of meditation has been from a Buddhist perspective. I would like to continue Loving Kindness meditations, as well as some of the other meditations we were taught at the buddhist centre (breathing in white light & breathing out dark smoke, dissolving everything inside your body into white light then eventually dissolving your skin and becoming formless - meditating on emptiness etc).
Do you think these are compatible with AYP?
Alan
Yes, of course, no problem at all. The dissolving the body into white light I wouldn't teach to beginners, it is more of an advanced practice. But I don't see any incompatability problems, and have practiced all of them. |
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Saagaram
USA
87 Posts |
Posted - Dec 16 2010 : 1:36:13 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Lili
quote:
Originally posted by Saagaram
Alan, There is a really beautiful loving-kindness practice known as taking and giving. It is the opposite of your light visualization. You visualize all the suffering of every sentient being in the universe as black smoke that you inhale which dissolves into compassionate white light in your body that you then exhale as white light of compassion absorbed into every sentient being.
This is an advanced practice that is not recommended at all for beginning and intermediate-level practitioners. Please check the writing of Christopher Hansard and others for more on that subject.
Alan--if you want to try this practice suggest you do a literature review first and decide whether it is something for you at this stage.The practice you have found is probably much better suited for the purposes you wish to accomplish than this one.
This is something strange to say. It is basic Mahayana training that lay people do. It isn't good to discourage blessings. Tears in my eyes. |
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Lili
Netherlands
372 Posts |
Posted - Dec 16 2010 : 6:57:23 PM
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Hi Saagaram,
Can you please tone down the drama? I am offering Alan the view of a reputable author trained in the (pre-Buddhist) Tibetan Bon tradition. I don't see why his division of practices in beginning and advanced and his categorizing this as advanced should be bringing you tears or whatever. He is not saying this is not good practice per se--he is just saying it's advanced--whether you wish to cry about it is your issue. If different views from your own bring you tears perhaps an open free discussion forum is not where you want to be to begin with.
I know that many Buddhist authors teach this as beginners' practice. Their views are widely accessible and available on the internet for Alan's consideration and he's free to make a choice or experiment and work it out for himself. I am even enclosing one of them below for reference:
Source: http://www.quietmountain.org/links/.../tonglen.htm
"Some people new to this practice get worried because they think that by doing the practice they will have to lose happiness and experience suffering, which makes them fearful. However, there is no need for this anxiety because whatever happens to oneself is solely a result of one's karma. Doing this practice does not bring suffering.
Other people do the practice with great expectation, with great hope. They think of a friend who is ill, unhappy or otherwise suffering and they visualise this friend during the meditation in the hope that they will remove the suffering. When they find it does not work they lose hope and become disillusioned. This also is not what the practice is about. The point is to cherish other beings as important, rather than regarding oneself as important. So there is no need to have worry, fear or expectation.
However, it is not true to say there is no result from the practice. In the immediate present one is not able to bring happiness or remove suffering, but by doing this practice one will gradually cease to cherish oneself over others. Instead, one will develop the wish to practise in order to benefit other beings, eventually leading to the ability to help beings, teach and train them in the Dharma, and so forth." |
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amoux
United Kingdom
266 Posts |
Posted - Dec 17 2010 : 04:12:11 AM
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Alan - to get back to your question, in the past I have practised tonglen and metta in addition to AYP. Here's some advice, for what it's worth Get really stable in your AYP practices first. Then you can try adding/changing things. What I did was alternate metta (in the morning) with samyama (in the evening). I never included tonglen within AYP, but as it's the ultimate 'portable' practice, I simply fitted it in during the day.
I'm not a Buddhist, and I have heard varying opinions about doing tonglen - the general opinion seems to be that it's a good idea to be familiar with metta practice first, then add tonglen later, however, I learned tonglen first (a teacher I respect and have done a lot of work with suggested it to me, and I liked it from day 1) and later added metta - and apparently this isn't that unusual.
As Yogani says, the guru is in you - and you'll find your own way - but I'd suggest you get your core AYP routine firmly in place first before you start fine-tuning, adding or substituting. That way, you have a baseline to refer to, in terms of effects, so that if overloads start occurring you know why and what to do to smooth things out. This is just my two cents, and feel free to ignore |
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Topic |
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Observing the breath in addition to AYP?
