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brunoloff
Netherlands
47 Posts |
 Posted - Apr 14 2010 : 4:23:42 PM
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Dear all,
I've been over one month with no formal practice. I originally stopped practicing because of discomfort with kundalini. My overall story is that I spent all of last year severely depressed with kundalini syndrome, and this depression seems to have gone away after I attained stream entry (first experience of nirvana), four months ago, with insight meditation. After this I practiced AYP instead. I started having all sorts of different energy symptoms. A lot of ecstasy, stuff getting loose very fast, etc. About a month ago all this became very uncomfortable, with intense rushes up the spine when I tried to sleep, so I stopped all formal practice.
I noticed the following:
(1) Stuff has changed a lot during this period without formal practice. I went from plenty of bliss to feeling somewhat sad and irritable for a couple of days (nothing like the massive depression of last year, though), and then that faded away and left me in a state of dispassion. This new state lasted for a few more days, and now I'm back into energetic releases. This follows the usual description of insight cycles (see Daniel Ingram, "Mastering the Core Teachings of the Buddha," or Mahasi Sayadaw, "The Progress of Insight").
(2) I was unable to prevent informal practice. This is due mainly to two things: on one hand, if an obstruction becomes evident, I feel a strong inner pull towards it, which causes it to disolve. On the other hand, I'm currently trying to do a PhD, which involves studying all day long, trying to concentrate on what I'm reading. The quiet nature of my job makes all the inner processes stand out in a very noticeable and disconcerting way.
(3) Grounding was good but short-lived. I did lots of walks in the park and sports: both feel very good, and after walking or swimming I feel a lot of peace. But very soon, within an hour or so, new obstructions become obvious in the silent peacefulness. I try to socialize as much as my work and personality allows, and I found this to be the absolute best grounding activity.
(4) Something hard to label is happening with my concentration. On one hand, I feel a very increased sense of constant awareness. I am no longer "spaced out" in situations where I normally would be, e.g., walking around, taking a shower, etc. After a few obstructions inside the head and in the throat have cleared up, my mental chatter has decreased in intensity, as if loud voices where replaced by whispers. All this is good. On the other hand, the constant unraveling of obstructions is REALLY distracting, so although I feel like I could go deeper into my work, in fact I can't, because going deeper loosens inner gunk, which is very distracting. So my ability to work, albeit much better than it was last year, is still taking a toll.
(5) Recently some very obvious chakra activity fired up. I think my desires might have something to do with it. I read on one of the posts in the forum (a quotation of Aurobindo) that the spiritual journey becomes much smoother once you open the heart chakra.
(6) The situation I'm in can DRAMATICALLY influence my condition. For instance, just now I've finished the second meeting of the meditation group I'm organizing. We did not actually meditate, but rather only spoke about meditation. Because of this, my pupils are dilated (I think I even scared one of the members), my vision is altered, there are sensations of heat in my head, and all sorts of pains, releases and vibrations going on in my chakras. A real kundalini-high, so to speak. I sure hope the universe is forgiving and will let me sleep peacefully tonight.
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So it would seem that I am getting all the purification I want, and more, without practicing. I would really prefer if I could find a way of getting my cake and eating it too, i.e., getting purification but not in a way that upsets me in my working hours.
Yogani mentioned several times that he pursued a career in science. Other people here might have similar jobs that require quiet concentration, such as reading. How did your practice influence your concentration? Was it always an improvement? Did purification ever get in the way of reading a book properly? I sure hope that my practice will improve my concentration, at least in the following year (I want to do my PhD properly!), rather than hamper it.
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Edited by - AYPforum on Apr 14 2010 4:28:24 PM |
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markern
Norway
171 Posts |
Posted - Apr 18 2010 : 10:56:56 AM
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I find your experience is very interesting. Because it is interesting to see how things work as far a long the path as you are and because your experience sheds light on what happens if you stop practice completely.
I am going to throw some ideas at you but I am certainly not in any way qualified to give advice to someone in your situation, or most people for that matter. Just take it as ideas to investigate.
Firstly, have you asked about this at Dharmaoverground (Ingrams forum). There are several people there that have been in exactly the post stream entry phase you are in and so might have good advice.
THe essence of your problem seems to be that you need to ground, as you say grounding realy helps, but that the methods of grounding that are strong are also methods that increase the pace of your purification and you can`t handle that as it is already in overdrive. FOr example walking in nature helps but is short lived as it is a good but weak method. I have for a long time faced a similar situation as my crown chakra is the size of a blimp compared to my other chakras so whatever method I practice to ground helps initialy but once I reach a certain depth of absorptian and energy prodution the crown kicks in no matter what. I have had fairly good success in grounding through stuf like embrace the tree that has a very strong downard pull but even with that I can get into trouble so I have to be very carefull while I build up my root.
THere are a bunch of physical practices that over the long term help you ground quite well but take time. PIlates is one of the best as it structures your muscles to move from the dan tien. This pulls energy down into the dan tien but because pilates produces very little energy the rate of grounding vs energy production is very favourable. For an energy sensitive person it does produce some energy though so it might still not work for you. Also it is slow work. YOu need 60 min three times a week over three months to get a realy solid result and you need more intesive or more long term work to totaly rewiver the way your body works and hence the way the energy flows. If you can manage then an hour a day would be great.
Also consider certain types of dancing. Hip Hop dancing for example is very grounded and all dance focuses on movement from the dan tien and so helps get energy down. Dance will also help with whole body dispersion of energy and get you into the physical and the emotional bodies more than the energetic and this could help a lot. It helps me.
There are various types of squating like movements that help. Youtube squates or squates for grounding or ask at thetaobums.com. A good one is where you stand with your toes and knees almost touching or touching a wall and bend down untill you are completly down but keep your knees to the wall and then move back up. THis is easier if you stand against a pole of sorts because you might need to use your hands a little bit for balance and help in getting up.
walking slowly backwards can help.
Have you tried simply focusing on the soles of your feet and then on sensing deeper and deeper into the earth?
Another thing you could consider is to try to focus/meditate on your muscles. When I draw my awareness to my muscles then energy somehow disapears and I am pulled into the more physical "realms". You can do it like a bodyscan.
Do you eat meat? It helps.
You could also try acupuncture although it might backfire. THere are some herbs that suposedly help a bit. Go to alchemicaltaoism.com. THere are some advice there on these matters.
The advice I have gotten before was to do embrace the tree, secret smile and deep, precise belly breathing. Embrace the tree and otehr Zhan Zhuang poses are very grounding but they also produce energy. THey have the advantage over asanas that are grounding of being about 90% downwardflow whereas the grounding asanas I know of are about 60% downwardflow and that is to little for me as my upward pull is already so strong.
THere is an asana called cosmic grounding pose that you can find if you use the search function at Eric Schifmans forum that is suposedly very good but I haven`t tried it yet. My intuition is that it is a lot more grounding then the regular muladhara asanas.
You might find usefull advice at thebiologyofkundalini site or one of the kundalini suport network sites.
I read in a different post that you did the microcosmic orbit for some time and found help from it but that it still kept purification going too strong or something. If you are to do any sort of formal practice it would seem to me that just doing the orbit or just the orbit pluss other balancing practices and no insight work or any sort of work that is not particulary aimed at grounding would be the way to go. It might be worth your while to do standing meditation like embrace the tree coupled with the orbit with perhaps particular focus on the front channels and coupled with deep belly breathing and perhaps the secret smile. THe beely breathing grounds your energy deep down in the beely and lower in your body, the standing gets energy deep down into the earth and the orbit you know how works. THe secret smile is both a method for kundalini activation (you already have that so not relevant) and for smoothing things out after kundalini. A lot of the effect comes from keeping you very happy and emotionaly balanced. There might be other reasons why it works as wellm, not sure. You can find instructions if you search for it at thetaobums.
Going stragiht at it with balancing and grounding energywork is a big risk in your situation and could make you worse but I think it is worth realy trying it at some point and if you no`t succeed then stopping everything and use only hte physical and other super safe stuff like pilates squats and walking etc. You could also try to build up to such an attempt through the safer means first in order to increase the chances of success. That is sort of what I do. I do some super safe stuff like dance and some energy work that is grounding but have to be very carefull even with that. ) out of 10 things that are classicly meant to be grounding do not work for me because the crown kicks in too soon. But whenever energy realy goes down for soem time for example through standing meditation it gets celar to me just how great it is to be grounded and how much more stuff you can handle higher up if you have your energy down below in order. I think you might belive that the purification is more boethersome then it actually is becuase you do not realy know what grounded purification with proper cirulation means. THats sort of the case for me at least.
Also consider tai chi as it helped Yogani a lot. What makes sense to me is to learn a short for in a couple of private lessons and then repaet the short form over and over instead of learning a long form. along form could take you arround nine months of classes to learn. You just need the basic moves repeated over and over and you get that from a short form.
I have seen Daniel Talk about making a formal resolve not to make progress in insight meditation. You could try the same (ask him what he does). Probably it is usually done in conjunction with entering jhana but it still could help to do it without meditation for strenghtening the effect.
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markern
Norway
171 Posts |
Posted - Apr 18 2010 : 10:58:24 AM
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oh, and have a look at this thread:
http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php...6d5901d4691f
You can also try this exercise:
http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php...h-the-earth/
It does not have to be done with the making love with the earth intention but can also be done with just the intention of sending energy down (and receiving) or just feeling the earth being aware of your contact with earth as you do it. THis exercise has the advantage of getting energy down while not producing much energy. Much, much less than most standing meditation for example. It also cools of your energy and makes you more yin.
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Edited by - markern on Apr 18 2010 1:17:46 PM |
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brunoloff
Netherlands
47 Posts |
Posted - Apr 18 2010 : 6:56:44 PM
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Wow markern, thanks for such a careful reply! I do feel way more stable than a few weeks ago, although today I got some activation in the ajna (a small bit leading to the crown) and now in the muladhara. Nothing uncomfortable. I will try the "making love with the earth" exercise if I am still stable enough in the next few days.
Meanwhile, let me ask you something: is being "grounded" the same as having no more energy circulating in the body than what the lower chakras can handle? Wouldn't then practicing on clearing up the obstructions lower chakras help? Or would this be liable to have them release more energy instead?
E.g. focusing up and down muladhara <-> manipura, or just the muladhara. In my former vipassana practice, I learned how to proceed to release "blockages" anywhere, and I'm sure that with a few minutes of meditation on the lower chakras, two times a day, I would be able to do some targeted cleanup of obstructions in that area. I haven't done so because yogani specifically doesn't recommend it.
But I would love to have the stability and balance that is supposedly associated with the lower chakras.
Thanks again,
Bruno |
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markern
Norway
171 Posts |
Posted - Apr 19 2010 : 06:57:21 AM
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Good to hear you are doing better!
As I said I am not qualified to give advice I am just sort of brainstorming with you based on my limited experience and the advice of others. If being grounded theoreticly means what you suggested I am not sure about. I am not sure about the cleaning blockages work either although it sounds like it would help. However, my experience is that there is a huge difference between having a lower chakra strengthened and more activated and having the right energy current that makes you grounded. For example if I do embrace the tree energy is pushed down into the feet and into the earth and one gets a connection down into the earth that helps to hold energy down. When you start out ungrouned as I do this feels like a current of upwardflowing energy that is uncomfortable being reveresed and turned downwards. Several things that I tried that create more base chakra activity had only slight effect on reversing the current but produced a lot of energy. THis energy was then sucked up and the slight effect in reversing the current was quickly overcome by the old tendency and actually got worse because there was no a lot more energy in my body in total and this energy also went up. This is why I talked about exercises that has a 90% down effect as oposed to only 60% or so. If you start out fairly even then doing a 60% down exercise like a bunch of asanas are then you will get more grounded. If you have a strong upward flow already you will get worse. Maybe if you do such an exercise intensly for a long time and push through the horrible effects when it all starts to get worse and just keep on doing it it will eventually balance you out as it does produce a "60%" earth energy but I have enver dared make this atempt. I quite when it gets too scary.
So if I had to choose between doing something that clears blocks in lower chakras and something which is more about reversing the current I would choose reversing the current first. When thats done I think clearing blockages would help for sure and be safe. But thats just my opinion based on my limited experince. What I would do is ask this question to someone that practices both vipassana and some sort of energywork. I know there is a guy at dharmaoverground that got the first to paths doing only qigong. He would have an understanding of what such clearing works in vipassana does energetically as opsed to standing meditation etc.
THere is also the possibility of doing the smal and medium oribts. In the smal orbit you only circulate up til the ming men and then turn over to the navel and down or something like that and in the medium you swing by the heart and down I think. I think this is safer for grounding purposes in many ways but not sure. THere are people that use this version a lot such as Trunk at alchmicaltaoism.com and they could explain to you how this all works. You should ask for advice from someone who does it before you try because I have just read about people doing this and I know my Vipassana and qigong teacher does it but have not talked to him much about it.
With all your practice your breath should be free and behaving like it should but does it automaticly breath deep in the belly? If not then correctin gthat would help. My breath for example is all ****ed up. I usualy initiate the breaths from teh solar plexus which means I breathe in fire energy and then I breathe up which constantly pumps energy up. When I loosen up enough to be able to breath deep into the belly then energy sicks A LOT. So I am seing a physiotherapist to help me relase the breath and that is working realy well although it takes time. Working directly with the breath is impossible for me as it is one of those things that sets of the energies very fast.
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brunoloff
Netherlands
47 Posts |
Posted - Apr 19 2010 : 11:00:07 AM
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Ok Markern, I've looked into the standing chi kung, downloaded some books, and I'll resume practicing, maybe next week, with this kind of practice. I guess that "growing roots" has some correspondent in the flow of energy in the body.
I also have this dilemma: maybe if I just do practice X intensely for a while, it will be rough at first but after a while it will permanently stabilize for the better.
I think that it would be nice if people like you and me got together on some thread in this forum and try to figure out why energy goes overboard, and what to do about it. This seems to be one of the most unfriendly aspects of energy work, and should be fully dealt with if yoga practices are to become modern-day friendly.
I am confident that there must be some way of gaining conscious control of the intensity of kundalini phenomena. Of course, if you're a monk, this doesn't really matter, but if you need to keep your daily living happening smoothly, then this would be a crucial skill to have.
Of course, we know that there's a bunch of stuff we can generally do, or not do, to slow things down. It would be nice if all this stuff was put into one place, and I've seen some posts here on AYP in that direction. But there is really nothing of the sort "To slow kundalini down, concentrate on place X, breathe in this or that way, and visualize Y." |
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brunoloff
Netherlands
47 Posts |
Posted - Apr 19 2010 : 3:17:53 PM
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It seems that I have inadvertently gotten something started in the muladhara chakra. This will happen sometimes, I think "what would happen if I did *that*," and just the thought makes me prone to do it. So when I mentioned focusing on the muladhara, my attention stayed there for a little while, and it did so repeatedly yesterday and this morning.
As a result, something did dissolve down there, very gently, and this seems to have triggered a whole-body energetic process of some sort (gentle shifts and dissolutions). So I'll put off the qigong practices for a couple of weeks, and I'll get back to you on developments.
I've been reading some posts you've written, and I'm wondering: how is your concentration? do you need good focus for your job? ; also you have certainly been doing practices for a while, are you mostly stable, unstable...? I would really like to discuss these matters with another practitioner, as I'm pretty isolated, practice-wise. I started a meditation group here in Amsterdam (http://www.meetup.com/No-bullsh*t-meditation), but no experienced practitioners joined so far. If you are up for chatting a little, maybe through skype, let me know (my skype name is bruno.loff). |
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brunoloff
Netherlands
47 Posts |
Posted - Apr 21 2010 : 3:31:02 PM
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Well, I've decided upon a practice. It seems that things have more or less stabilized, although my concentration isn't as good as I wish.
I will do The three amigos of rooting: http://www.precisiondocs.com/~altao...eeAmigos.htm,
Twice a day, as prescribed in the link above. I'll do it for a month, take it really easy, and report back. I'm guessing this might not be too long, but we'll see.
Ah! It's good to once again have a practice :-) |
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markern
Norway
171 Posts |
Posted - Apr 23 2010 : 11:46:59 AM
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I am going to try the two first amigos myself. I did them before a bit but have forgotten about them. I did them yesterday togheter with some squats and that felt very good. OVer the very long term I think those can ground me quite well.
My concentration is crap but was about to get quite good I think. I am really just a failed beginner. I did yoga for five years or so on and of, sometimes intensively, but just started a year and a half ago to get a daily meditation practice. Once I did I got a lot of energy very quickly. Half the time my head was full of toughts but it did not take me so long to almost still them completely. My body also seemed to almost disapear at times during meditation. THen I started having problems with the crown chakra and energy going up and after that I have just struggled with grounding and have tried maybe 15 different things that generally work for people but did not work for me only made me worse. Now I have improved quite a lot but I am still not were I can realy do those things I feel could ground me best such as standing and bodyscanning because even they after a point kick of the crown. I think thats quite unique. I have never hear of anyone getting too much energy in the head from standing meditation.
I will send you my email and we can communicate that way. I haven`t tried skype and computer access varies a lot for me.
I think the best option would be to find a teacher from Tibetan budhism as they understand both the vipassana that got you where you are and energywork that can balance you out. THere should be someone not too far from where you live.
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Apr 24 2010 : 09:45:43 AM
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Hi Markern and Brunoloff
Thank you for this very interesting topic and for all the helpful information.
Grounding has been a constant ongoing issue here too.
Walking (for at least 1 1/2 hour) every day, hugging trees (standing with back to the stem is especially grounding for me) , and engaging in physical daily activity has been very good.
However - in December I included 10 minutes of standing qi gong after meditation practice and in beginning of January I started learning Tai Chi. Of all the above means of grounding, nothing has worked as well as Tai Chi. It is simply fantastic - the amount of energy circulating is very high here now, and tai chi allows for all of it and somehow physically wipes away the "boarder" between my physical body and the physicality of the surroundings. In other words - it blends the "inner" energies with the "outer" energies in such a way that they are physically felt to be one big body.
The trouble here for a long time was that as consciousness...unbounded and limitless....looking at the surroundings and knowing myself to be all I looked at, the body had trouble catching up with what the consciousness expresses. And although the body too is pure consciousness.....the nervous system needs time to adapt to the physical homecoming. It still does.
Anyway - just wanted to share about the tai chi.
This is the form I practice:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAe95N3T8q8
All the best and thank you both of you 
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innercall
Canada
66 Posts |
Posted - Apr 24 2010 : 4:00:36 PM
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Hi Makern and Brunoloff,
I found this topic very intersting. I too need to work a lot on grounding. I started learning Tai Chi about 1 1/2 month ago and it helps a lot for me. To add my own experience from what Katrine said, it seems to blend and circulate the energy stuck inside in a powerfull yet gentle way. Since I read your topic, I started doing ankle rotations and squats and I think it can help..
Please continue to exchange on this subject as I am sure it is very helpfull to a lot of people...including me
Thanks
Innercall |
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Self-Pacing Report: 1+ month with no practice
