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WSH
USA
38 Posts |
 Posted - Feb 04 2010 : 2:02:22 PM
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Hello All,
Today I come to you with a heavy heart. I am so close to giving up on the practices. Lately a lot of negative thoughts have been coming into my meditation and carrying over into life in general.
I am questioning so much the validity of what I am doing. This is nothing new for me. I am constantly questioning and have done so for many years.
I have to ask myself what it is this all for. For more than 30 years I have been wrapped up in spiritual pursuits of one kind or another, and it seems that I have missed out on so much on life. In pursuing the spiritual path it seems to me that it can be so self isolating and very self centered and often seems to create a barrier between yourself and the rest of humanity. I have especially seen this in the organized religions where practitioners claim that their religion is a way of love and truth and then at the same time claim that their beliefs are somehow superior to another, therefore creating a barrier between one another. Where is the love and truth in that?
I know that spiritual practices are supposed to work the opposite way, where because of what an individual is doing that their practices are supposed to help one become more engaged in life and lead a life of greater service to humanity? I know this can be true, because it is easily observable in the lives of spiritual men and woman throughout history. I wonder if there was not a promise of reward in the end would these people still do what they had done?
The reason I say I missed out on life is because I have always kept myself somewhat at a distance from the rest of humanity, at least mentally. I have always somehow felt different, even in times when I put my spiritual practices aside and engaged in life there was always something calling my back to the quest to find truth or meaning. I have always felt like a stranger lost in a strange land trying desperately to find my way home.
Observing myself and others it seems that so many are so self centered. Those not on the spiritual bath perhaps in a different way than the spiritual seeker, although the movement is the same, both are striving to fill a voids in there lives. People in general seem so hurtful, full of gossip, greed, pride, bigotry, racism, competition and all the rest. I am not trying to judge, it is just an observation. I have been guilty of most all of these things. We are all at different stages in life and evolve at different rates.
There is so much suffering in the world, why do we as people insist on separating ourselves from one another. We are all the same; we are all human beings with the same needs. So why strive for these self fulfilling endeavors. Shouldn’t we put all that aside and instead reach out to each other? Is that not when the self naturally goes away and that joy so often eluded to comes into being? I don’t know.
People are so unwilling to take responsibility for what is wrong in the world, that want to blame God or mass karma or something else, anything else but ourselves. Most all of the loss of life caused by catastrophes and disease could be prevented if we were not so damn self serving and greedy. There is the technology and money in the world to build better homes to withstand earthquakes, or to install early warning systems for tidal waves etc. There are numerous vaccines and medical advances to help people. There are so many lost lives because of our own human arrogance.
There is so much suffering in the world. On all levels; viruses that destroy life and mind from the inside out, animals such as the hyenas that kill their prey by eating them prey piece by piece as they struggle painfully to live, people killing each other over ideas, just to name a few. I feel the pain of the world. I live with a broken heart. There is so much to be done there is so much to do.
I am not saying there is not beauty in life, because there is. The beauty of a smiling baby or child laughing, witnessing an act of compassion, the beauty of a sunrise over the mountains, sunsets on the ocean or an animal nurturing its young. Just to mention a few where one truly feels the presence of love or something else is present.
How can the meaning of life be tied to sitting and intoning I am or spinal breathing or sticking my tongue in my head or any of these practices. Is there not much more to life than this? Would it not be easier to put ones beliefs and practices aside and stop worrying about oneself and simply live life in an intelligent way, putting ones talents to use to better help humanity.
I don’t know how long I can continue on with these spiritual quests. But I also know it is impossible to completely give it up. When I found the AYP site on the web I told myself I would give it a year and see what happened. I am a quarter of the way through that year and all I have to show for it lately is excessive tiredness, irritability and being horney for lack of a better word.
I am not doing much either in regards to the practices either. I have again scaled down my practice because of the above issues, to 3 minute of SB followed by 15 minutes of DM followed by 5-10 minutes of rest.
I don’t know if there is any help for me. I don’t want to be depressed or cynical. The promise with AYP seems to be that these practices will lead to increasing happiness and even bliss in my life. I just don’t know. I never felt that I was a depressed person. I have a rich life. I was raised in a loving family; I have a loving wife and two beautiful healthy children, a nice home, a job that allows me to provide for my family. So I guess by most people’s standard I am truly blessed. Although recently I have discovered I have carried a lot of sorrow in my life.
I just want so much to engage life and not be so wrapped up in myself and just not worry about the spiritual things and let it happen naturally. Is not true spirituality a measure of how we relate to each other, ideas, the earth and ourselves in a many that betters the whole of existence? My problem is I can’t put the spiritual pursuits completely aside either. I known there has to be something more than this?
Sorry for the negativity. Words of encouragement are greatly requested. With love to all,
WSH
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Victor
USA
910 Posts |
Posted - Feb 04 2010 : 3:32:01 PM
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| Not quite sure how to phrase this but...I think that you should lighten up. Find your sense of humor, play a little, have fun. Lighten up. There is so much heaviness and seriousity in your post. Find the part of you that is like a child and play a little.. I think that you might feel better. |
Edited by - Victor on Feb 04 2010 3:32:51 PM |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Feb 04 2010 : 3:49:20 PM
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Concentrate on what you do now and give up the thought that a past exists. This is a collection of memories only.
You see yourself as seperate from the world, you are not, the world is inside you.
Be the seeker, have desire for the truth and have no expectations, no profit.
You are seaching for that which has never been lost.
Watch your mind always.
Accept all that happens and all there is with neither pleasure or with fear. Reject the false ' I am a spiritual person ', 'I am enlightened' treat them with equal contemp and do not identify with them.
You cannot help the world if you have not healed your own suffering.
You are your own cure. Apply yourself to that task only and stay constantly within yourself (not away from people, always be attentive and helpful when you can).
All the Books, Gurus, Ashrams are useful, but you have to truly believe, to have unwavering faith fuelled by burning desire, then it will happen there is no way it cannot.
The step is not big, it is a tiny thing, you are on the path but have been looking externally for the truth. It is within you, it has been always. There is no need to do anything more, or anything at all really except the practises are a useful way of loosening the bonds and reminding you to stay focused.
That is all I can add except that most of all you should be kind to yourself always.
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Edited by - karl on Feb 04 2010 4:09:31 PM |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Feb 04 2010 : 5:01:09 PM
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Hi WSH 
Take a deep breath and relax for a minute.
Life doesn't have to be "spiritual practices" OR "regular life"....it can and should be a balanced mixture of both. AYP practices are designed to help enhance daily life, not to interfere with it. If you feel like you are secluding yourself from life, then make an effort to engage more. It isn't the spiritual practices that are holding you back.
Try to stop judging the world for being other then how you wish it was (hurtful, full of gossip, greed, pride, bigotry, racism, competition, selfishness, isolation, suffering etc) and learn to enjoy it the way it is. Learn to enjoy the small things...like flowers, fresh air, blue sky and white clouds, friends, family, sleep, food, clean water, the feeling of ground under your feet....these are all things that can bring you ecstatic joy if you will stop focusing on the negative aspects of life long enough to let the good stuff in.
Based on what you have said in your post, I would not blame "spiritual practices" for how you are feeling. I would blame the "thinking mind" for getting in the way of you enjoying Life. This is where meditation plays a key role. It gradually strengthens your ability to see through, and let go of, the thinking mind. When you find yourself disgusted with the way things are in the world, in your life, drop that thought. Don't follow it, don't entertain it, don't engage with it. It is just a thought and you don't have to believe it. Believing that the world should be other then how it is will only cause you unending suffering. Learn to let these thoughts pass on by without you grabbing hold of them and giving them more emphasis then they warrant (which is none ). And HOW do we learn to let these thoughts pass on by without engaging them?.....a consistant daily meditation practice.
I would suggest that you stick to your one year goal. I would also suggest that you pick up the book "Loving What Is" by Byron Katie (and read it ). And I would also encourage you to engage Life more....however you desire to. If that means doing (more) sports, getting out with friends (more), spending (more) time in nature, or whatever, then do it. As Kirtanman has said in a few posts lately (and I believe he was quoting Swami Lakshmanjoo) "Do want you want, and meditate" (may not be an exact quote). To me it doesn't sound like spiritual practices are the issue here. To me the issue seems to be a lack of participation in Life, and allowing the thinking mind to run amok. Stop believing everything you think, and get out there and enjoy everything life has to offer. It doesn't have to be spiritual practices or regular life....it can and should be a balance of both.
Hope this helps.
Love.
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Yonatan
Israel
849 Posts |
Posted - Feb 04 2010 : 5:23:31 PM
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Hi,
I just have to say that for a couple of years now I've been suffering tremendously, and my spiritual hunger was at a peak. With AYP it just kept growing and growing untill these last few months and especially these last weeks, and the excess energy that I had and openings were too much. I wasn't enjoying life at all with spiritual practices. Now, today after practice I was really suffering from too much enegy and strain, and I listened to a radio interview fo Yogani on Deep Meditation. While listening a phrase came into my mind- "Take it easy", and the phrase repeated itself again and again in my mind, and then it's like something that was stuck just began flowing. I understood that the intense Bhakti I had all this time moved me forward, but also kept me "closed" on one thing- spirituality and spiritual practice, untill I didn't notice all the good things in my life, couldn't relax, this isn't life at all. Life is very important, and maybe spiritual practice is meant to open you up to the "other" life that you have besides spiritual related things.
I don't know maybe try to enjoy yourself. I know that if someone said this to me before today I would just continue with my close-minded spiritual state. But.. I don't know maybe it will help.
LOVE and all the best,
in friendliness,
Yonatan |
Edited by - Yonatan on Feb 04 2010 5:24:35 PM |
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adamantclearlight
USA
410 Posts |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Feb 04 2010 : 5:44:46 PM
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Hi WSH
(((((((HUG)))))))
Good things are happening.... take a break if you must... but just know in your heart it is just a phase... it will go away.
Do some mindless grounding things, eat heavy and like the others have said... have fun. |
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wigswest
USA
115 Posts |
Posted - Feb 04 2010 : 7:25:29 PM
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WSH, you might want to check out the "laughter yoga" thread in the "yoga, science and philosophy" forum... ;)
One of my favorite quotes is from Will Rogers: "If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went". I guess I can mangle it a little bit to say, if there is no reason to laugh in my spirituality, I'll look for a different spiritual path. Yep, I believe it's *that* important.
Find a reason every day to laugh out loud at least once...seriousness is *way* overrated in folks' spiritual systems :)
From "The Laughter of God" by Walter C. Lanyon:
"Deep in my soul I heard the laughter of God, ringing in silvery cadences through the timbers of my being, breaking the human bonds and limitations, as a strong yet gentle wind in the forest sweeps aside the strands of a cobweb. The hard, fast knots that I had tied slipped loose, and the snarls of beliefs broke free. The river of my human life, frozen by a thousand and one false ideas and teachings, broke joyously into expression and went bounding to the infinite sea of life, to be lost and found at the same time.
One dark cave of fear after another was illuminated by the light of this laughter, and swampy areas of sick thoughts were dried up instantly. Parched sands of hopelessness and futile efforts were drenched by the living waters, sucked in -- absorbed instantly -- like a wave breaks in on the sands. God laughing at me, and my puny efforts to make things happen; to make heaven appear; to attain the Sonship. Not the laugh of derision, but of infinite compassion, a laughter so deep and sweet, so pure and glorious that everything in the nature of struggle gave way before it. "
Deeply, deeply true :) |
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cosmic
USA
821 Posts |
Posted - Feb 04 2010 : 7:47:50 PM
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Hi WSH,
I've felt the same way at different times before. I'm a lifelong isolator/non-engager/lone wolf type, and I've had many of the thoughts you're expressing here.
My hope is that you don't abandon the unwinding process you've begun with AYP practices. Here is my honest gut feeling. Deep Meditation sometimes brings up negative thoughts and feelings that we haven't dealt with. I see this as a good thing. If you keep up the practice, you might find that these problems will arise so they can be dissolved.
My (early) personal experience with AYP goes something like this:
- Meditate for a while, with not much "results". Life gets slightly better, but nothing spectacular happens.
- Negative thoughts and feelings come up. Desire to quit arises.
- Keep meditating. Life becomes unbearable and desire to quit is strong. See clearly who I've been and hate it. Keep meditating anyways.
- Catharsis. Emotional release. Step up to a higher state of being.
- Rinse, repeat, but with much less suffering (and more joy).
There is a saying: "The only way out of Hell is through".
Many people here speak about how wonderful and joyful the path is. And how great meditation is, etc. What you don't see is that many of us (myself included) had to wade through miles of sh*t to get there.
quote:
Originally posted by CarsonZi
Life doesn't have to be "spiritual practices" OR "regular life"....it can and should be a balanced mixture of both. AYP practices are designed to help enhance daily life, not to interfere with it. If you feel like you are secluding yourself from life, then make an effort to engage more. It isn't the spiritual practices that are holding you back.
I agree with Carson here. You spend about 1 hour a day doing practices, but what about the other 23? Personally I'd suggest being active in life and not thinking about spirituality at all. Don't even sweat it. Go for a night drive or watch the Superbowl with friends. Meditate and forget about spiritual matters.
You'll be fine. I don't mean to tell you what to do. But my personal experience and gut feeling tell me that quitting won't help. Sticking to it will help you get through this experience you've having.
Wish you the best
Love
cosmic |
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - Feb 04 2010 : 10:22:03 PM
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Hi WSH,
All this evaluation is obscuring your inherent liberation; you can't get freedom, freedom is not an object ... you ARE freedom.
Liberation, spiritual wholeness, is a lot less like climbing a mountain and lot more like melting.
You can't be unenlightened; you can only think unenlightened.
Ideas are the problem, they have nothing to do with the solution.
Isolation is a state of mind; connection is reality.
There's nothing to figure out; there's only living-releasing.
When you're drowning, you can't save others from drowning; waking up is really the only option.
Reacting to limited thoughts about limited life is letting the song play you.
There's only freedom in reality.
One of the greatest obvious secrets is:
Thinking doesn't make time real; every moment is a new universe.
And hey, if all else fails ...... heck, call it quits (see what happens; we can't really escape the beauty of reality; we can only think we're veiling it with ideas, temporarily).
I haven't posted much about the discouragement I went through, especially the discouragement during the tail-end of sadhana ... which was infrequent, but at times intense as hell.
And I literally don't have words available for either the agony or the ecstasy that were part of the process; the elation, the discouragement; the hope, the hopelessness; the determination; the despair; the pleasure, the striving, the pain, the doubt, the certainty; the agitation, the depression; the smoothing-out; the return to rockiness; etc. ... etc. ... etc.
It was hell; it was heaven .......... and it was all a dream.
Fortunately, I finally dissolved into the reality that there's only this actual flowing.
I didn't do anything special; I just practiced enough, and paid a bit of attention enough, to finally be able to discern the real from the unreal, and I let go of the unreal.
We can debate and discuss and get discouraged and give up or keep trying or whatever.
There's still only the real, here; still only infinite freedom, loving wholeness, living unbound.
Just let go.
Just jump in.
This is all.
Wholeheartedly,
Kirtanman
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Edited by - Kirtanman on Feb 04 2010 11:44:26 PM |
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NagoyaSea
424 Posts |
Posted - Feb 05 2010 : 12:32:12 AM
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Hi WSH. Many people have shared good ideas in response to your post. But perhaps you yourself had the key to the life of a householder who practices.
You said quote:
I just want so much to engage life and not be so wrapped up in myself and just not worry about the spiritual things and let it happen naturally.
Perhaps you could do your meditation practice for the rest of the year. No expectations. No forcing. Just being instead of "pursuing spiritual practices". Just live your life daily, focusing on your family, work and doing what service you can locally.
love and blessings,
Kathy |
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WSH
USA
38 Posts |
Posted - Feb 05 2010 : 10:31:10 AM
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Hello wonderful people,
Heartfelt thanks for all of you who took the time to read and reply to my post. Thank you for the wonderful suggestions!
Lighten up, lighten up! Yeh no kidding! I guess this to shall pass. I imagine this is a part of the purification and opening that Yogani talks about.
One of the things I have noticed when doing more advanced practices such as pranayama is that it tends to bring buried things within my consciousness to the surface. Some times looking in the mirror can be painful.
I have always considered myself to be a positive person, serious about life but positive in nature. I always thought that there is a tremendous amount of suffering in the world so the thing I wanted to do the least was bring in any more negativity, with my thoughts or my demeanor.
I always thought that people were so uptight, racing through life without taking the time to breath and see the beauty where it exist. I remember often making comments to my wife, telling her to relax and not be so stressed out about life, generally the small stuff. She would always be so busy and stressed out about things that did not seem to me to matter too much at the time. I would ask her if she ever took the time to enjoy the soothing warmth of the sunshine on her face, or see the sheer beauty of the sunlight reflecting on the leaves shimmering in the wind, or the smell of the earth and the flowers or to just listen to the birds singing or the children playing and laughing. She would often reply that she did not.
So many of us get so busy in life, (even with spiritual matters) that we forget to slow down and take in the splendor of the truly beautiful things in life. A reflection of what may be said to be God, whatever that may be. I am one of those people who tend to forget at times. I just need to remember to relax and breathe and try my best to let go.
Unfortunately or fortunately I have always been very empathetic and feel the pain of the word. I know my suffering will never completely end as long as there is suffering in the world. I just have to remember to do my best not to contribute with negative thoughts or feelings and not let it overtake me.
Sometimes as I mentioned earlier in this post the opening going on inside can be painful. We don’t always like what we see in the mirror. In my case it seemed that I was living a somewhat hypocritical life. Not practicing what I preach so to speak, telling people to relax while being so uptight inside, even if it was deep down. I guess the first part of heeling is the recognition that you have a sickness.
The journey although painful at times must continue. So many people of some many faiths and walks of life attest that there is a light at the end of the tunnel that there most be some truth in it. I will continue to work on lightening up and most of all letting go and let life in.
Thank you all. Many blessing and love to all.
PS. Shanti, thank you so much for the hug! I really needed that.
WSH
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brother neil
USA
752 Posts |
Posted - Feb 05 2010 : 7:34:27 PM
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WSH, ive been there, got that TShirt
in one of yogani's lessons he talks about letting go of frustrations by sometimes yelling things like "I should be enlightened already" maybe someone here knows what lesson I am talking about.
In essence this is what I got from the lesson, angers may come up and if repressed they may not dissolve so sometimes it is best to let them out. How one does this can be one of two ways, one way is that we bottle this up and a situation occurs where we react to something that makes us angry, ignites that fuse, and then we end up doing an action that we end up feeling guilty about, which can further enhance the issue.
Or, we can decide to go yell and scream or hit a punching bag, kick a pillow, etc... a conscious decision with the intention of letting these frustrations come to the surface and be released.
It is one thing for us to tell ourselves to let it go, it is another to find a way to do it. Maybe this way would help, whichever way you choose I hope it does. All things said, I am preaching to myself, may I take my own advice. 
my best to you
Brother Neil
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brother neil
USA
752 Posts |
Posted - Feb 05 2010 : 7:38:33 PM
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just found the lesson
here is part of it
"""Transforming Negative Emotional Energy
It may not always be obvious that we have a choice in how our emotions are directed and focused. So often we are caught up in the events of the moment and our emotional energy becomes focused in nonproductive ways due to knee-jerk reactions. But these can be changed through the methods of bhakti.
For example, let’s suppose we are stuck in a traffic jam, and are late for an appointment. The longer we are stuck, the more our emotions may tend to rise about our increasing lateness. The knee-jerk reaction in this case may be to lean on the horn and curse out the window at someone who has cut us off to gain a car-length or two in the huge mass of traffic creeping along the highway slower than a walk. On the other hand, if we have a chosen ideal for our spiritual evolution that is becoming strong in us, we will be able to take the emotional energy rising in us due to the traffic and lateness and transform it to cry for our spiritual evolution. Instead of honking and yelling at the driver who has cut us off, we complain to the divine about our slow progress toward enlightenment.
"Oh Lord, my journey to realization of Thee is going so slowly!"
Yes, complaining with heart-felt emotion to God (however we may conceive Him/Her/It) can be very productive, as long as we are willing to act to resolve what it is we are complaining about. Our frustration about being stuck and late in traffic can be easily redirected to be frustration for being stuck and late on our spiritual path. What is the benefit in this?
While honking our horn and yelling out the car window will do little to speed up the traffic jam, expressing intense emotion toward our chosen spiritual ideal can have a dramatic effect on our spiritual progress. The effects can be both tangible and intangible, as long as we are open to what may come. Bhakti is not about unloading our perceived troubles. It is about opening the divine doorway within us.
In the tangible sense, as we are lamenting our lateness in the traffic jam, that is, our spiritual lateness, the redirected emotional energy may go toward us resolving to put in extra effort to seek knowledge of spiritual practices that we may have been putting off for some time. Or to become more regular in our daily meditation and other sitting practices and not miss them as often as we did before.
In the intangible sense, we may have a revelation of new spiritual knowledge right then and there in the traffic jam. It may express itself as surrender and an opening to inner peace and love flowing from within. It can happen in the most adverse circumstances. It can happen because of adverse circumstances as we redirect our emotions toward our chosen ideal. In such times we may encounter the knowledge we need to take next the steps on our path in a mysterious way – maybe we pull off the crowded highway in frustration, go into a café, and meet someone who provides exactly what we need to take the next step on our path. It happens often to people who are steadily building devotion in relation to their chosen ideal. More bhakti brings many small miracles into our life – and some big ones too.
This is not to promote a superstitious approach to spiritual development. It is not to encourage the seeking of "signs" in everything that happens in our life. We don’t have to be trying to "read the tea leaves" to find our salvation. If we attend to the necessary causes, the effects will be there.
If we are favoring the redirection of our emotional energy and the transformation of our everyday desires toward our chosen ideal, then what we need for our spiritual fulfillment will find us in one way or another. If we take care of devotion and are willing to act when the appropriate opportunities present themselves, then the knowledge and tools we need will find us.
Much of what we have been saying before now may seem to assume that everyone will be enthusiastic about their spiritual prospects, have a clear chosen ideal and be moving along in converting all their emotional energy at a good pace. Of course this is not going to be the case for everyone all the time. But we know that everyone has an emotional life, even if that is being expressed as an inclination to not be enthusiastic or excited about anything. Those who are conspicuously disinterested or running away from life will have their emotional energy invested in that disinterest and running away, and that energy can be transformed to serve an ideal, whatever that ideal may be. The ideal does not have to be flashy, or even obvious. It may be as modest as making the time to meditate twice daily, which is not a small thing at all. It surely will lead to openings, and the bhakti will expand along with it. The main thing is to understand that every feeling we have can be applied in a direction that we choose. The energy we may be expending to run away in fear or guilt is of equal value in bhakti as the energy we may be expending for seeking the divine. Whether our negative or positive emotions are invisible or very intense and expressed outwardly, we can use them all for a chosen higher purpose – our enlightenment.
Consider the possibility of your infinite nature, and embrace it with feeling. You will not regret it.
The guru is in you.
Note: For more on Bhakti, see the AYP Bhakti and Karma Yoga book."""
http://www.aypsite.org/340.html
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WSH
USA
38 Posts |
Posted - Feb 05 2010 : 10:26:17 PM
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Thanks Brother Neil.
I appreciate you looking that up for me. That helps. I am remembering to breathe today.
Best of wishes to you as well,
WSH
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Emil
Australia
141 Posts |
Posted - Feb 08 2010 : 02:55:08 AM
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Hi WSH,
I haven't yet managed to read all the comments so this might actually be redundant.. anyhow, In my opinion, all of the things that you consider negative, sad and ugly are the aspects of life that you have not accepted. A part of the spiritual development is to accept things as they are. Remember those hyenas and their prey are separated in one level but ONE in another level. Eating other animals is just natures way of trasfering material from one animal into another. The purpose of enlightenment is to get to a palce where you can see this so that it wouldn't bother you anymore. However for the time being, you will suffer to the degree to which you haven't accepted the natures play. Remember that getting killed by a hyena might not actually be as painful as it looks from here. (compare it to a lot of hard things that we do)
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Lacinato
USA
98 Posts |
Posted - Feb 08 2010 : 8:37:15 PM
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| I just wanted to say, I feel like I nearly could have written this post. So, thank you, and you are not alone. |
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WSH
USA
38 Posts |
Posted - Feb 08 2010 : 10:31:05 PM
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Thanks Emil,
I think it is probably just a phase I am going through. You are probably right about the Hyena and its prey being one in the same, but tell that to the prey. Who feels it knows it?
The fact of the matter is that there is a lot of suffering in the world on all levels. Nature is not a perfect place and in fact it can be very violent and indiscriminate at times as we have recently witnessed in Haiti.
I also know there is a tremendous amount of beauty out there and in me too. I witness that everyday.
I just feel guilty when I get too wrapped up in myself, when I feel my efforts would be better served helping others. Someone replied to my initial post in effect saying you have to fix yourself first and then you are more capable to help others. But I feel even a sick doctor can heal a patient.
I guess the trick is being able to work for the good both within myself and outside myself without trying to carry the weight of the world on my shoulders. Even with the practices someone pointed out, there are still 23 hours left in the day where good things can be done.
Since I wrote the original post I am feeling quite a bit better. All the kind responses including your own have been extremely helpful and greatly appreciated.
I plan on continuing on in my practices. I have toned them down a bit and I am feeling much more stable and possitive. I guess until the veil is lifted the journey can be painful at times as things continue to open up within myself.
Lacinato, you are very welcome. It is good to know I am not alone.
Thanks again to everyone! May many blessings find you all!
WSH
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Emil
Australia
141 Posts |
Posted - Feb 09 2010 : 7:22:36 PM
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Hi WSH,
I first wrote a long comment but then decided that I was putting too much "mind" into it. You realize what will hurt people of Haiti in the long run (i.e. for the rest of their life) is probably not the loss of their home or relative but rather the notion that their life isn't how they want it to be. Which reminds me of the cause of your (and my) unhappiness which is the fact that the whole universe is not how we'd like it to be :)) So the problem is the same.. it's the nature of human mind and that's what we're trying to transcend.. as soon as we succeed, then we can also help others in achieving that.
I also like to point your attention to how already you're helping others through your own practices. This article is about how TM-Sidhi (which is effectively the practice of meditation + Samyama) can help humanity:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TM-Sidhi_program
Best of luck ;) |
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WSH
USA
38 Posts |
Posted - Feb 09 2010 : 10:08:33 PM
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Hello Emil,
Thank you, good points. It seems that our individual suffering is usually more in relation to the ego/mind than it is in relation to the other that is suffering.
Thanks for the link and thanks again for getting back to me. Best of luck to you on your journey as well.
WSH |
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brunoloff
Netherlands
47 Posts |
Posted - Mar 28 2010 : 11:47:31 AM
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Cosmic wrote: Many people here speak about how wonderful and joyful the path is. And how great meditation is, etc. What you don't see is that many of us (myself included) had to wade through miles of sh*t to get there.
I fully subscribe :-) I read your post, and I recognized my former speeches. :-) Things will change! Keep practicing! Take heart
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nearoanoke
USA
525 Posts |
Posted - Mar 28 2010 : 11:59:27 PM
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May be it is a bit late to comment but WSH has clearly expressed what has been going through my mind for a lot of years.
People who have succeeded might say "this will pass" "you will see the light" etc. But When? 30 years is quite a long time to have spent on the spiritual pursuit. I myself have spent more than 5 years on various practices (not just AYP) without any visible changes in my life. I understand I should not expect anything, be patient etc.., but life is really too short and at the end of my life I might end up with a feeling that I have been after a "Wild goose chase", wasted all my years running after something that isnt for me.
Same rule doesnt apply to all. There can be spiritually insensitive people like me for who nothing might happen for quite a long time or maybe even forever. So I cant suggest anybody that this will pass etc... but definitely would not suggest quitting either. We have started meditating because we believe in it from somewhere very deep inside. Right? The seed is there within us. We know this is true and it will help. It does not really harm anything spending an hour everyday for what feels right and what feels like our life's goal. Just continue practising because you believe it to be the right thing to do, not because it might change something in you. Even after years nothing might change at all and we should be okay with that.
- Near |
Edited by - nearoanoke on Mar 29 2010 12:03:07 AM |
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brunoloff
Netherlands
47 Posts |
Posted - Mar 29 2010 : 2:33:26 PM
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naroanoke, I disagree.
Correct spiritual practice produces tangible and obvious changes. If they are not happening, the practice is not good enough, or you're not doing it right, or, possibly, the practice is good and you're doing it right, and the changes are happening, but so slowly or naturally that you don't perceive them as change. If this is the case, then sooner or later you will be having very obvious perceptual changes. Also possible is that you are having these changes, but think they are unrelated with your practice. It will also be very obvious when kundalini awakens (assuming you are doing / will do SBP anytime soon). Another option is you're already enlightened, but have wrong expectations of what that might be like (e.g. you expect to become a super-human).
Have you gone on a retreat? A 10-day vipassana retreat in the style of mahasi sayadaw will _undoubtedly_ bring obvious results. They won't be pleasant or gradual, but they will certainly be obvious. I would recommend reading:
- Mastering the Core Teachings of the Buddha, by Daniel Ingram; available for free at http://www.interactivebuddha.com/mctb.shtml
Spiritual practice isn't right or wrong nor is it not a moral discourse, it is a mental tool to produce specific changes in perception. If they're not happening, then there's something wrong with the teaching or with the way it's being applied. It is a tool. It has a purpose. Correct spiritual practice will work on anyone: if you can relax a muscle, then you can do spiritual practice.
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Chiron
Russia
397 Posts |
Posted - Apr 01 2010 : 3:53:26 PM
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| Don't give up! |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Apr 02 2010 : 04:34:22 AM
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WSH, thanks for your post! I am among those who also could have written it, for sure!
nearoanoke, I agree! That is a proper "non-expectation"/non-desire attitude. If we do meditation because we expect a certain outcome in the future - it probably will never happen!
What is driving us must be the inner fire, the bhakti. Not the expectation of an outcome.
brunoloff, I believe no-one is doing spiritual practices "wrong". We all think the way we do it is right. Who is to tell us we are doing it wrong? It's a trial and error game we are playing with the divine if we are not in the presence of an outer guru for a longer time who can guide us. To me it seems we can never foresay how it will be for someone else based on our own experience or a belief of "how it should be".
I have my kundalini awakened (I think, but that's just because I believe other's opinions on that, I might be wrong) and I have a sense I can be stuck on this level for ever. I'm always stepping back to square one, again and again, with a sense of getting nowhere.
At the moment I'm just very happy not to have any overload symptoms. That has been a goal with my meditations for the latest years, and I am at the moment quite relaxed. There's only a rash on my right hand when there's been too much healing/beaming going on. |
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wakeupneo
USA
171 Posts |
Posted - Apr 02 2010 : 2:27:21 PM
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WSH,
If your going to quit, that's good, but quit everthing. Quit trying to define yourself in relationships, careers, and material things. Quit believing the story that 'you' really exist and 'you' are really something that is tangible. Quit feeing the fire of the psuedo-personality.
Adyashanti once said that it takes work to not be enlightened. We are constantly in a process of self-referal. We are constantly pretending to be who we are not. Like actors we assumed the roles and we continously play these roles. This constantly process of being something we are not is tiring.
All will fall into place at the end. Spiritual practice or no-spiritual practice. I believe that all that is necessary is to have a longering and a fire for truth. What we desire will and must manifest, this is the law.
Love,
J |
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