|
|
 |
|
| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
 Posted - Feb 04 2010 : 12:16:37 PM
|
From Mark Griffin at http://hardlight.org
"It is the expansion, illumination, and manipulation of the subtle physical body that most swiftly draws more and more and more of the fourth body into the system. And that's one of the dynamics of Shaktipat is the illumination and expansion of the second body, the subtle body. It increases the draw of the fourth body into the three relative bodies.
Thus the relationship between the student and the teacher - by expanding the subtle body can cause your system to draw more and more of the fourth body, the formless consciousness of the fourth body, into it. The energy does all the work.
The spiritual teacher is kind of like an electrician. As more and more of the pure formless ocean of consciousness is drawn into the drop of the individual, the more they will become like the ocean. It's just a matter of time where you get that inevitable point of critical mass. The ocean becomes the drop and the drop becomes the ocean."
If the terms he uses aren't familiar:
The Second Body is the subtle body, the psychic/energetic forms which are changed directly via practices (the physical body reflects the changes which take place in the subtle body).
The Fourth Body is Turiya; Unbound Awareness. Inner Silence, True Nature.
And so, to use AYP terminology, Mark Griffin is saying that shaktipat facilitates the increase of inner silence.
(And I would add "for those who are able to receive it."
Meaning: this is how it works, if the person receiving shakipat doesn't have too much resistance at the level of the subtle/relative bodies, including in thinking mind.
This is one of those "I found it on the Web and just thought it was interesting" things.
I hope it's helpful.
Wholeheartedly,
Kirtanman
 |
|
|
Tibetan_Ice
Canada
758 Posts |
Posted - Feb 04 2010 : 11:34:11 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Kirtanman
From Mark Griffin at http://hardlight.org
"It is the expansion, illumination, and manipulation of the subtle physical body that most swiftly draws more and more and more of the fourth body into the system. And that's one of the dynamics of Shaktipat is the illumination and expansion of the second body, the subtle body. It increases the draw of the fourth body into the three relative bodies.
Thus the relationship between the student and the teacher - by expanding the subtle body can cause your system to draw more and more of the fourth body, the formless consciousness of the fourth body, into it. The energy does all the work.
The spiritual teacher is kind of like an electrician. As more and more of the pure formless ocean of consciousness is drawn into the drop of the individual, the more they will become like the ocean. It's just a matter of time where you get that inevitable point of critical mass. The ocean becomes the drop and the drop becomes the ocean."
If the terms he uses aren't familiar:
The Second Body is the subtle body, the psychic/energetic forms which are changed directly via practices (the physical body reflects the changes which take place in the subtle body).
The Fourth Body is Turiya; Unbound Awareness. Inner Silence, True Nature.
And so, to use AYP terminology, Mark Griffin is saying that shaktipat facilitates the increase of inner silence.
(And I would add "for those who are able to receive it."
Meaning: this is how it works, if the person receiving shakipat doesn't have too much resistance at the level of the subtle/relative bodies, including in thinking mind.
This is one of those "I found it on the Web and just thought it was interesting" things.
I hope it's helpful.
Wholeheartedly,
Kirtanman
Hi Kirtanman :0
It is so interesting to see that you have taken an interest in Mark Griffin. You might really like him. He is extremely technical, like an engineer, he describes everything in great detail, uses lots of big words and seems to have the best understanding of the mechanics of kundalini, chakras, shakti, the witness and the extension of the sushumna above the head that I've ever seen. His dissertation on the Blue Pearl is very profound and mystical.
The Guru Radar Meditation has one of the most haunting flute music backgrounds I've ever heard. The concept of the extension of the sushumna rising up above the head that serves as an antaena is not something you hear mentioned by any other guru. "what is here is everywhere.." :)
Mark also has some podcasts which you can listen to free of charge in the podcasts section of his website.
Some interesting characteristics about Mark's teachings:
1) He tells you to regulate the breath (deep bellows style breathing) during meditation, while listening to the so ham.
2) He tells you to focus on the pauses between breaths because that is where the magic happens, when the kundalini shakti stirs and rises.
3) He is the first guru I've seen that explains how to technically perform pratyahara (it is a kind of a push or lunge just above the solar plexus below the heart in the sushumna and it stops the five senses).
4) He is quite experimental. He created a video that guarantees that you will stop your mind if you sit and watch the whole thing (it's quite long). (I never did because it terrified my girlfriend at the time.. ) It is the story of the Wizard of Oz, with two other video screens (one on each side) all happening at the same time. It's a real mind bender..
Here is the link: http://www.hardlight.org/podcast/kunda2008.html
Anyway, if you were to review one of his mp3's, I'd recommend the Blue Pearl. Or if you listen to any of his podcasts, I would be interested in hearing about your reactions and opinions..
:)
TI |
Edited by - Tibetan_Ice on Feb 04 2010 11:48:13 PM |
 |
|
|
Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - Feb 05 2010 : 12:02:01 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice
quote:
Originally posted by Kirtanman
From Mark Griffin at http://hardlight.org
"It is the expansion, illumination, and manipulation of the subtle physical body that most swiftly draws more and more and more of the fourth body into the system. And that's one of the dynamics of Shaktipat is the illumination and expansion of the second body, the subtle body. It increases the draw of the fourth body into the three relative bodies.
Thus the relationship between the student and the teacher - by expanding the subtle body can cause your system to draw more and more of the fourth body, the formless consciousness of the fourth body, into it. The energy does all the work.
The spiritual teacher is kind of like an electrician. As more and more of the pure formless ocean of consciousness is drawn into the drop of the individual, the more they will become like the ocean. It's just a matter of time where you get that inevitable point of critical mass. The ocean becomes the drop and the drop becomes the ocean."
If the terms he uses aren't familiar:
The Second Body is the subtle body, the psychic/energetic forms which are changed directly via practices (the physical body reflects the changes which take place in the subtle body).
The Fourth Body is Turiya; Unbound Awareness. Inner Silence, True Nature.
And so, to use AYP terminology, Mark Griffin is saying that shaktipat facilitates the increase of inner silence.
(And I would add "for those who are able to receive it."
Meaning: this is how it works, if the person receiving shakipat doesn't have too much resistance at the level of the subtle/relative bodies, including in thinking mind.
This is one of those "I found it on the Web and just thought it was interesting" things.
I hope it's helpful.
Wholeheartedly,
Kirtanman
Hi Kirtanman :0
It is so interesting to see that you have taken an interest in Mark Griffin. You might really like him. He is extremely technical, like an engineer, he describes everything in great detail, uses lots of big words and seems to have the best understanding of the mechanics of kundalini, chakras, shakti, the witness and the extension of the sushumna above the head that I've ever seen. His dissertation on the Blue Pearl is very profound and mystical.
The Guru Radar Meditation has one of the most haunting flute music backgrounds I've ever heard. The concept of the extension of the sushumna rising up above the head that serves as an antaena is not something you hear mentioned by any other guru. "what is here is everywhere.." :)
Mark also has some podcasts which you can listen to free of charge in the podcasts section of his website.
Some interesting characteristics about Mark's teachings:
1) He tells you to regulate the breath (deep bellows style breathing) during meditation, while listening to the so ham.
2) He tells you to focus on the pauses between breaths because that is where the magic happens, when the kundalini shakti stirs and rises.
3) He is the first guru I've seen that explains how to technically perform pratyahara (it is a kind of a push or lunge just above the solar plexus below the heart in the sushumna and it stops the five senses).
4) He is quite experimental. He created a video that guarantees that you will stop your mind if you sit and watch the whole thing (it's quite long). (I never did because it terrified my girlfriend at the time.. ) It is the story of the Wizard of Oz, with two other video screens (one on each side) all happening at the same time. It's a real mind bender..
Here is the link: http://www.hardlight.org/podcast/kunda2008.html
Anyway, if you were to review one of his mp3's, I'd recommend the Blue Pearl. Or if you listen to any of his podcasts, I would be interested in hearing about your reactions and opinions..
:)
TI
Cool; thanks for the comments, TI!
Two of the basic tenets of Kashmir Shaivism (Mark Griffin is a disciple of Swami Muktananda) are:
A. Open Architecture Approach
&
B. Living Approach (meaning: gurus can add their own "flavor" to the mix; they teach from their own living awareness, not from that which is static).
I see both of these approaches as perfectly compatible with AYP.
And yeah, Mark Griffin is pretty technical ... but on the other hand, I found the explanation above to be one of the clearest explanations of Shaktipat I've ever seen ... that's why I posted it.
As I think I've said before ... I'm always "up" for accurate articulations of how it all works; you never know what articulation may resonate with someone.
And you quoted half of one of my favorite Abhinavagupta quotes; here's the whole quote:
"What is here is everywhere; what is not here is nowhere."
Thanks again for your comments; I don't know much about Mark Griffin yet, but some of his stuff is very interesting, for sure.
Wholeheartedly,
Kirtanman
|
|
|
|
CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Feb 05 2010 : 10:31:10 AM
|
Hi TI, Kirtanman and All
quote:
Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice
He is the first guru I've seen that explains how to technically perform pratyahara (it is a kind of a push or lunge just above the solar plexus below the heart in the sushumna and it stops the five senses).
I know this has very little to do with "The actual dynamics of Shaktipat", but this line caught my eye, and reminded me of where the breath gets "caught" when I find myself not breathing during meditation. I don't know anything about Mark Griffin, nor about his technique for pratyahara, but I DO know that whenever my breath stops in meditation, it stops half way in and half way out "just above the solar plexus and below the heart in the sushumna". Thought that was an interesting coincidence.
Love.
 |
|
|
|
christiane
Lebanon
319 Posts |
Posted - Feb 05 2010 : 11:48:14 AM
|
Hi all,
and thank you for the inspiring blue lines, Kirtanman.
i could recognize many points either intuitively, or according
to experiences i had months ago..
but here, i would like to ask you - and i'm asking myself! - when you say:
quote:
Originally posted by Kirtanman
As I think I've said before ... I'm always "up" for accurate articulations of how it all works; you never know what articulation may resonate with someone.
isn't this desire for understanding any spiritual/energetical process and the way it actually "works" detrimental for someone who has never had such similar experience?
I mean, whenever we experience great momentum of bliss, silence, ecstasy, you know, the kind of unexpected blissful light showering suddenly on us,..usually, we just receive it as a gift! It is a HAPPENING.. we have no control over it.. we happen to be ready and we just receive..
So..i wonder if "understanding the articulation" of any spiritual process would be of any use, and maybe it could be a barrier..
When we "know" mentally about something, we naturally tend to expect it to happen in this or that way..
and at the given time, this expectation due to prior mental knowledge, could prevent us from actually LIVING, KNOWING the experience we read about..
Just asking myself in yourself :)
|
|
|
|
Tibetan_Ice
Canada
758 Posts |
Posted - Feb 06 2010 : 2:08:14 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by CarsonZi
I know this has very little to do with "The actual dynamics of Shaktipat", but this line caught my eye, and reminded me of where the breath gets "caught" when I find myself not breathing during meditation. I don't know anything about Mark Griffin, nor about his technique for pratyahara, but I DO know that whenever my breath stops in meditation, it stops half way in and half way out "just above the solar plexus and below the heart in the sushumna". Thought that was an interesting coincidence.
Love.
Hi Carson :)
And when your breath shuts off, do your senses also shut off? Can you describe the experience?
:)
TI |
|
|
|
Tibetan_Ice
Canada
758 Posts |
Posted - Feb 06 2010 : 3:57:52 PM
|
Hi Christiane (Lady of the heart) :)
quote:
Originally posted by christiane
isn't this desire for understanding any spiritual/energetical process and the way it actually "works" detrimental for someone who has never had such similar experience?
I mean, whenever we experience great momentum of bliss, silence, ecstasy, you know, the kind of unexpected blissful light showering suddenly on us,..usually, we just receive it as a gift! It is a HAPPENING.. we have no control over it.. we happen to be ready and we just receive..
So..i wonder if "understanding the articulation" of any spiritual process would be of any use, and maybe it could be a barrier..
When we "know" mentally about something, we naturally tend to expect it to happen in this or that way..
and at the given time, this expectation due to prior mental knowledge, could prevent us from actually LIVING, KNOWING the experience we read about..
Just asking myself in yourself :)
That is an interesting question!
The very simple anwer is "no".
When we recieve a "great momentum of bliss, silence, ecstasy, you know, the kind of unexpected blissful light showering suddenly on us,..usually, we just receive it as a gift! It is a HAPPENING.. we have no control over it.. we happen to be ready and we just receive.." the mind is long gone. There is no mind left in silence so whatever knowledge, preconceived ideas, memories or mental constructs a person would possess would be long gone, incapable of influencing any spiritual event!
I've also heard of atheists becoming enlightened, so I firmly doubt that the mind could stand in the way of divine illumination.
It is only after the experience that the mind would once again come into play, dividing, analyzing, interpreting, trying to assign meaning and relevance based on prior knowledge and experience. The interpretation of the spiritual event would be limited to the level of understanding of the person's mind, his/her mental culture..
However, there is value in gaining correct understanding and knowledge. (but it is not the only path to God) There is also great value in learning the proper language to describe spiritual events so that the concepts can be conveyed to other people.
Case in point:
I recently met someone who is currently undergoing mental assessment and treatment. Everyone thinks she is mentally deranged and in severe need of psychiatric help. I will call her Jane. Jane is 24 yrs old.
Jane is very psychic, she sees disembodied spirits and other phenomenon. She has premonitions and deja-vu dreams. She is not afraid to talk about all of this with me.
She told me that she had been experiencing seizures. Whenever she would come close to this 'pure, innocent, attractive young man (same age as her)' whom she was very attracted to and had known for six months, she would start to feel waves, then would throw a fit, fall to the ground, make grunting sounds of ecstasy, and convulse with eratic body movements. Her head would arch backwards and her tongue would point upwards. Her body would shake. Her heart rate pulsed rapidly. She said she had a pain in her heart and that pain lasted for a few days after. She had no idea what had happened to her, nor did anyone else. She thinks that she has some kind of neuro-psychological disorder.
I asked her what it felt like during these seizures? Did it feel good or sexual? She said it felt like she was orgasming but at the same time was horrified by what was happening to her physically. She was so embarrased and very sad that this young man whom she loved dearly was also repulsed by her fit(s) and sought to distance himself from her, thinking that she is afflicted with some serious mental disorder.
This was all so fascinating to me. It sounded like a classic case of kundalini to me. Funny that nobody in the medical system could interpret her experiences with those particula words. Along with her treatments, she is undergoing EFT treatment. She was told that sometimes electricity builds up in various locations of the body and by tapping on several accupuncture pressure points, she could release the electricity buildup harmlessly and regain balance.
I told her about kundalini. I told her about the sensations, the body movements (kriyas), the arching of the neck backwards, the sexual ecstasy, the waves, the relation to the heart as kundalini rises and pierces the chakras... Now she is very very interested in learning more about kundalini and has asked me to get her some books about it.
My point is this: without prior knowledge about kundalini, without certain expectations of symptoms, sensations and outcomes, I would not be in a position to try to help this person. Knowing the mechanics of kundalini is an asset, especially if you can help other people with it. So knowledge is a good thing, yes?
:)
TI
|
Edited by - Tibetan_Ice on Feb 06 2010 4:07:15 PM |
|
|
|
Yonatan
Israel
849 Posts |
Posted - Feb 06 2010 : 4:26:54 PM
|
TI,
I can imagine what she might have felt. It's good that you could help her understand.
LOVE,
Yonatan |
Edited by - Yonatan on Feb 06 2010 4:27:14 PM |
|
|
|
wigswest
USA
115 Posts |
Posted - Feb 06 2010 : 5:35:25 PM
|
| Tibetan, let us know how she does - that is indeed fascinating... |
|
|
|
Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - Feb 06 2010 : 10:39:40 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by christiane
Hi all,
and thank you for the inspiring blue lines, Kirtanman.
i could recognize many points either intuitively, or according
to experiences i had months ago..
but here, i would like to ask you - and i'm asking myself! - when you say:
quote:
Originally posted by Kirtanman
As I think I've said before ... I'm always "up" for accurate articulations of how it all works; you never know what articulation may resonate with someone.
isn't this desire for understanding any spiritual/energetical process and the way it actually "works" detrimental for someone who has never had such similar experience?
I mean, whenever we experience great momentum of bliss, silence, ecstasy, you know, the kind of unexpected blissful light showering suddenly on us,..usually, we just receive it as a gift! It is a HAPPENING.. we have no control over it.. we happen to be ready and we just receive..
So..i wonder if "understanding the articulation" of any spiritual process would be of any use, and maybe it could be a barrier..
When we "know" mentally about something, we naturally tend to expect it to happen in this or that way..
and at the given time, this expectation due to prior mental knowledge, could prevent us from actually LIVING, KNOWING the experience we read about..
Just asking myself in yourself :)
Hi Christiane,
Good points, good question!
Let's see if I can answer myself ......
Basically, when I post things like this, it's not the knowledge that's of value in and of itself, so much as the potential I see that a clarification might help thinking mind quiet down.
However, most people can't do that; they need to know, and they're sure that certain aspects of yogic spirituality (specifically little-understood aspects, such as shaktipat) must involve some big, mysterious deal, based on what some guru somewhere said.
And so, this is kinda-sorta "informational aikido" .... taking all that need to know and gently redirecting that need smack-dab into the infinite silence.
And, besides ..... any formalizing of approach is restrictive; whether we decide "information is important" or "information is detrimental, it's all about grace" .... we've drawn a conceptual line.
The reality is: "posting happens" .... I don't think through the words I write, nor the reason for posting all that much; it's like "Hey, cool, kinda interesting ...." {notice feeling-movement to post it over here} ... and post it.
My point to TI was less "let's compile technical understanding", and more "If it's useful info, I'm not too worried about where it comes from" ..... combined with "and we're all really fortunate to have access to it."
Still, I get your point, though: in general, we want to move away from information ......... but hey, if information can be used to help move away from information ........ how cool is that?
And, while I'm often "first in line" to denigrate the value of information ... it may be useful to recall that the vast majority of people living in the whole history of the world had no access to spiritual information in any way; they couldn't read, or weren't allowed to, if they were of a certain class or gender (many people don't realize how radical Kashmir Shaivism was, teaching women, people of all castes, and people of all religions, in the 10th century).
Many people had never heard of a religion other than their own, or a way of looking at that religion differently than the town priest, rabbi or guru taught that it should be viewed.
And somehow, people still got enlightened.
And so, as with everything else ..... it's less about information being good or bad, and more about balance .... and most of all, about what gets us home ... whatever that may be.
And the best part of all is enjoying that home is all there is; home is all there ever is; whether we come to the unity of this knowing, the unbound awareness we each and all ever actually are now, the harmony that is actually living, actually here ...
... whether realizing this comes from Shaktipat, or AYP, or some guy's or some woman's words on a website or an online forum or a blog ... or all of it.
There's really no way we can go about this incorrectly, or do anyone a disservice; it's all alright.
It's not about content, ultimately ... it's about context; content is just the wrapper.
Is it Love at the Heart of This?
If our answer is some form of a resounding YES ..... that's grace in action; no particular knowing or unknowing needed.
Thanks, Christiane; I would say "thought provoking" ..... but it's more like "grace inspiring".
Thank You!
Wholeheartedly,
Kirtanman
|
|
|
|
Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - Feb 06 2010 : 11:15:01 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice
Hi Christiane (Lady of the heart) :)
quote:
Originally posted by christiane
isn't this desire for understanding any spiritual/energetical process and the way it actually "works" detrimental for someone who has never had such similar experience?
I mean, whenever we experience great momentum of bliss, silence, ecstasy, you know, the kind of unexpected blissful light showering suddenly on us,..usually, we just receive it as a gift! It is a HAPPENING.. we have no control over it.. we happen to be ready and we just receive..
So..i wonder if "understanding the articulation" of any spiritual process would be of any use, and maybe it could be a barrier..
When we "know" mentally about something, we naturally tend to expect it to happen in this or that way..
and at the given time, this expectation due to prior mental knowledge, could prevent us from actually LIVING, KNOWING the experience we read about..
Just asking myself in yourself :)
That is an interesting question!
The very simple anwer is "no".
When we recieve a "great momentum of bliss, silence, ecstasy, you know, the kind of unexpected blissful light showering suddenly on us,..usually, we just receive it as a gift! It is a HAPPENING.. we have no control over it.. we happen to be ready and we just receive.." the mind is long gone. There is no mind left in silence so whatever knowledge, preconceived ideas, memories or mental constructs a person would possess would be long gone, incapable of influencing any spiritual event!
I've also heard of atheists becoming enlightened, so I firmly doubt that the mind could stand in the way of divine illumination.
It is only after the experience that the mind would once again come into play, dividing, analyzing, interpreting, trying to assign meaning and relevance based on prior knowledge and experience. The interpretation of the spiritual event would be limited to the level of understanding of the person's mind, his/her mental culture..
However, there is value in gaining correct understanding and knowledge. (but it is not the only path to God) There is also great value in learning the proper language to describe spiritual events so that the concepts can be conveyed to other people.
Case in point:
I recently met someone who is currently undergoing mental assessment and treatment. Everyone thinks she is mentally deranged and in severe need of psychiatric help. I will call her Jane. Jane is 24 yrs old.
Jane is very psychic, she sees disembodied spirits and other phenomenon. She has premonitions and deja-vu dreams. She is not afraid to talk about all of this with me.
She told me that she had been experiencing seizures. Whenever she would come close to this 'pure, innocent, attractive young man (same age as her)' whom she was very attracted to and had known for six months, she would start to feel waves, then would throw a fit, fall to the ground, make grunting sounds of ecstasy, and convulse with eratic body movements. Her head would arch backwards and her tongue would point upwards. Her body would shake. Her heart rate pulsed rapidly. She said she had a pain in her heart and that pain lasted for a few days after. She had no idea what had happened to her, nor did anyone else. She thinks that she has some kind of neuro-psychological disorder.
I asked her what it felt like during these seizures? Did it feel good or sexual? She said it felt like she was orgasming but at the same time was horrified by what was happening to her physically. She was so embarrased and very sad that this young man whom she loved dearly was also repulsed by her fit(s) and sought to distance himself from her, thinking that she is afflicted with some serious mental disorder.
This was all so fascinating to me. It sounded like a classic case of kundalini to me. Funny that nobody in the medical system could interpret her experiences with those particula words. Along with her treatments, she is undergoing EFT treatment. She was told that sometimes electricity builds up in various locations of the body and by tapping on several accupuncture pressure points, she could release the electricity buildup harmlessly and regain balance.
I told her about kundalini. I told her about the sensations, the body movements (kriyas), the arching of the neck backwards, the sexual ecstasy, the waves, the relation to the heart as kundalini rises and pierces the chakras... Now she is very very interested in learning more about kundalini and has asked me to get her some books about it.
My point is this: without prior knowledge about kundalini, without certain expectations of symptoms, sensations and outcomes, I would not be in a position to try to help this person. Knowing the mechanics of kundalini is an asset, especially if you can help other people with it. So knowledge is a good thing, yes?
:)
TI
Hi TI,
Very interesting post, and interesting dialog, overall.
I agree with everything you've said .... we're just sort of saying it from different angles, as we seem to sometimes do ..... every so often.
For instance, your line that "atheists can get enlightened" ... was the point I was making, too, with respect to people's limited access (in the past) to all the informational access we enjoy, today.
It's not so much mind that's the problem; it's mistaken prioritizing of objective information.
For instance: I agree ... it's wonderful that you could help that girl, and wonderful that you knew about kundalini; there's a difference between using knowledge as a barrier and as a tool or vehicle .... and you were clearly doing the latter, in a very good way!
So much of current medical and psychological science, and spiritual science as well, is in the dark ages ... and it's because they lock their minds down around what they think they know.
Fundamentalists come in all flavors; scientific, religious ... you name it.
And so, not only, for instance, does medical science not (yet) really acknowledge kundalini ... many doctors aren't willing to acknowledge kundalini, because to them, it's exotic, mysterious and unscientific ... when it's actually none of these.
It's an operation of consciousness-energy that isn't very well-understood, largely because it doesn't fit into the current "objectivity is all there is" model of so-called modern science.
Quantum Physics would have seemed like voodoo a bit over a hundred years ago.
Kundalini, or whatever it might be called in English, will likely be mainstream a hundred years from now.
(Resistance to reality on the part of the medical and scientific communities isn't *that* strong, and every time something yogic is able to be measured, its accuracy is verified; I don't see that changing.)
And VERY interesting detail on the seizures thing; I've been around women in "Shakti overload", which can seem very seizure-like .... but .... there's also been a lot of recent research on the ecstasies of spiritual energy and seizures *actually* being connected.
There's sort of a "Kundalini Syndrome" profile that tends to include migraines, minor seizures (which the person may just experience as ecstasy, either sexual or otherwise), and other migraine-associated symptoms, along with (often) A.D.D. types of symptoms.
All of these things seem to be part of the fundamental brain changes that are taking place, to create a realization-rich environment in the body-mind.
I don't know how pervasive it is, but I easily know half a dozen or more people who fit this profile, and the girl you know sounds like she may, too.
I've been reading some Jung lately, and he was actually pretty radical for his time. He literally hypothesized that the psyche is not contained in any way by the (seemingly) individual body-mind, which is why so-called psychic phenomenon can occur (seemingly) "outside" the body.
Jung was one of the few to consider and notice that "outside" is simply a conceptual definition, and that psychic phenomenon follow certain rules, seemingly: not limited by body-mind, space or time (as objective consciousness thinks of these concepts).
And so ...... very interesting stuff ... and all so interwoven ... thanks to all for the cool conversation!
Wholeheartedly,
Kirtanman
|
|
|
|
Tibetan_Ice
Canada
758 Posts |
Posted - Feb 07 2010 : 12:03:25 AM
|
Hi Kirtanman :)
Thanks for your comments.
quote:
Originally posted by Kirtanman
...
There's sort of a "Kundalini Syndrome" profile that tends to include migraines, minor seizures (which the person may just experience as ecstasy, either sexual or otherwise), and other migraine-associated symptoms, along with (often) A.D.D. types of symptoms.
All of these things seem to be part of the fundamental brain changes that are taking place, to create a realization-rich environment in the body-mind.
I don't know how pervasive it is, but I easily know half a dozen or more people who fit this profile, and the girl you know sounds like she may, too.
...
I will have to ask her about headaches/migraines..
The interesting perspective on this is the role that love might play in this phenomenon. Yogananda, in his interpretation of the Gita, states that opening the heart chakra facilitates the rising of the kundalini.
So, perhaps by 'loving this person', it helped to open Jane's heart and precipitate the reaction. This theory has some implications for receiving shaktipat. In one sense, perhaps you could say that the person she is in love with was 'shaktipating' her, unbeknownst to him.
I wonder if this is a necessary requirement for a successful shaktipat.. Perhaps shaktipat is an experience that requires the shaktipatee to love the shaktipator or at least have some degree of an open heart towards the shaktipator? I'm inventing words here.. -shaktipator, -shaktipatee.. :) It's fun..
I recall reading Shanti's blog about her initial shaktipat with Nithyananda, how the initial shaktipat was very profound and powerful, how the second shaktipat was not as strong and how, eventually, after the negativities concerning Nithyananda were discovered, the enamourment was doused. It would seem that the recipient's emotional state is a major factor.. So, in this case, perhaps Christiane's position that the mind can influence the inception of spiritual experience has merits.. Or perhaps the heart has that power too. I think that it is true that the mind can influence the heart and close it down to a degree.
It makes me want to understand the dynamics of shaktipat even more. I'm also very curious about how to perform a shaktipat on someone, or even 'slay them in the spirit'. Perhaps you need a loving, willing, receptive recipient, and it doesn't work if that is not the case.. ? Lots to think about.. Hmmm..
:)
TI
|
Edited by - Tibetan_Ice on Feb 07 2010 12:51:38 AM |
|
|
|
christiane
Lebanon
319 Posts |
Posted - Feb 07 2010 : 03:00:01 AM
|
Hi everyone..
usually, i rarely read long posts ( ), but this time, i made an effort and i'm grateful to both of your posts TI and Kirtanman!
i'm not against "knowledge"...
Usually, i'm not against anything anyway..
and in the case of Jane, it seems information has been useful to 'de-mistify' what was happening to her..
That said, forgive me if i dig a bit deeper again.., but, are we sure we have helped Jane when we give her informations about Kundalini?
Because, this information is based upon others experiences, not HER.
So, ok.. she will be informed.. but true knowing will only happen when Jane associates fragments of information with her actual experience, yes?
Only THEN will information be true for her.. only when it matches her actual experience..
And even at that moment, even actual knowing itself is to be acknowledge and then dropped..like anything else..
Also, concerning ignorance and its tragic consequences in the history of humanity, i feel it's more the beliefs and disbeliefs of people that was the root problem.. Knowledgable people are not always the closest to the "spiritual experience"..
A famous religious figure said "unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven."
Which means "unless we become innocent again - innocent with awareness and wisdom - etc. etc."
Innocence is the opposite of ignorance..
innocence means "openeness", "virginity", "trust"..
ignorance is "closed", "dark", "blind"..
In the case of Jane, i feel that, YES, the heart played a major role in her experience..be it kundalini or whatever..
In the case of Shaktipat, more than any other case, to me, it's a matter of heart and trust.. it's a love affair!
in my case, when it happened to me months ago, i was in a state of love.. beyond any will, word, knowledge, mind..
it just happened.. i was open, virgin, available..
and it just happened.. there was pain mixed with pleasure..
pain because the energy was pushing hard, finding its way up.. when it crossed the Heart, it was hell and heaven! and when it finally burst in the ajna and above.. "i" simply felt like "dead"! This was Death for me :)
It was painful like a delivery.. yet it was luminous and "orgasmic"..
I spent about 5 days afterwards, in a state of consciousness, above the mind.. all my acts were "responses to this new conscious state of being".. the mind power has shrunk dramatically..
And the last thing i was interested in was "reading about spirituality and knowing more about what happened to me.."
it would have been nonsense at that moment!
But yes, afterwards, i got back to informations..
because the mind needs to be fed after all!
Otherwise, it feels uncomfortable!
SO, it's all a game..
The important thing is to know (!) it is all a game, and be able to
drop it! (not always easy when it comes to spiritual experiences).
And this is where, to me, the Heart plays a major role..
coz when you sink into the Heart, you automatically drop from the mind/knowledge etc... and then, only THEN, you are available and closer to truth..
Typing typing..
flowing flowing..
forgive my mispellings if any..
Love
|
|
|
|
Tibetan_Ice
Canada
758 Posts |
Posted - Feb 07 2010 : 11:46:30 PM
|
Hi Christiane :)
Thank you very much for sharing your perspective and experiences. :)
Once again you have exploded my heart into tingles..
The similarities of experiences between you and Jane, such as the 'love' factor, the pain in the heart, much of what you have described, definately helps to gain a better perspective on this. I know this is going to help Jane a lot and it really helps my understanding of kundalini. (not to mention that reading your post affirms the importance and role of the heart)
Judging by your comments:
quote:
Originally posted by christiane
...
But yes, afterwards, i got back to informations..
because the mind needs to be fed after all!
Otherwise, it feels uncomfortable!
...
I think, then, that you'd agree that Jane should learn about kundalini so that she:
a) Has a rational explanation for what has happened to her, so she too can feed her mind.
b) Doesn't think she is a mental case.
c) Has some kind of explanation that can be told to others (especially in the medical profession) and hopefully the others will expand their knowledge base with positive effects.
d) Can learn to grow with this experience and realize her full potential.
Your post is so awesome! Thanks again.
God Bless You!
:)
TI
|
|
|
|
christiane
Lebanon
319 Posts |
Posted - Feb 08 2010 : 03:42:52 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice
I think, then, that you'd agree that Jane should learn about kundalini so that she:
a) Has a rational explanation for what has happened to her, so she too can feed her mind.
b) Doesn't think she is a mental case.
c) Has some kind of explanation that can be told to others (especially in the medical profession) and hopefully the others will expand their knowledge base with positive effects.
d) Can learn to grow with this experience and realize her full potential.
Hi TI :)
thank you so much for feeling..
yes, i agree with the 4 points you mentionned above..
then knowledge will support/confirm the actual experience,
and i think you're right, THIS would be a positive thing.
Thank you a lot for the interesting posts..
Love |
|
|
|
CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Feb 08 2010 : 10:28:02 AM
|
Hi TI and All
quote:
Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice
And when your breath shuts off, do your senses also shut off?
Yes, when there is no breath I am fully "inside".....or perhaps I should say, it is realized that there is no "out there", and consequently no external senses happening at that time.
quote:
Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice
Can you describe the experience?
Nothing to describe. I'm very simply "not there". I only know that I have not been breathing when "I" and my external senses return and I notice I am not breathing in or out and that the breath is "stuck" in the middle of the chest....half inhaled half exhaled. Then I have to start breathing again
Love.
|
|
|
|
jeff
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - Feb 08 2010 : 3:04:37 PM
|
Kirtanman,
If you like Jung, have you read his Red Book that was released end of last year? In the book, he basically describes the path to enlightenment through the integration of the soul. At the end of his life he seems to have become a gnostic christian.
Regards. |
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
|
|
| AYP Public Forum |
© Contributing Authors (opinions and advice belong to the respective authors) |
|
|
|
|
The Actual Dynamics of Shaktipat
